Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[robyn]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

in my community I'd have single handedly forced a Lynch by now and cowed everyone else

[Marmot]

dizzy just started playing, which could be contrived, so neutral lean

I don't understand this observation. Has he not been playing?

hasn't said much of anything game relevant until now yes

How do you feel about the fact that he hasn't said much of anything game relevant until now?

[robyn]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

that's not a stance, that's an observation

In the same post I was referencing, you stated a stance of "neutral lean"

If you had to lean one way or the other, which would you pick?

scum lean

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Boq still hasn't talked to Marmot

What does this say to you about either or both of those players?

[Dyslexicon]

Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

@NateTheLesser, in your vote sheet, is this the Dizzy vote you have marked with ??? for the time?

Well, this shows that you're reading closely. (And it gives me an honest town ping on you, not just in a self-centered way because you're using my spreadsheet, but because to me it shows that you were interested in seeing the wagon context of Dizzy's votes while doing your ISO, which is a level of detail wolves often don't bother with if the ISO is just for show.)

Anyway, the post you quoted turned into the "hmm" that I mentioned earlier, that made me wonder if I should be paying closer attention to Dizzy. Because from their post history, there's the vote post you quoted and then their next post in the thread is this one:

I also hate that it’s tied me and Marmot. I don’t want to be forced to vote practically my only defender but I definitely won’t make it awake til EOD today

Who do you want to vote?

The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

Nice.

Forgot about this, but yes, I did forget to vote Wilgy in poll. I thought I did it when I returned, but can't remember. I recall noticing I had forgotten about it though, and I wanted my vote to be on Wilgy.

I prefer to post when on my Mac. Occasionally, I'll read on my phone when I'm on the tram or the toilet lol, but I rarely phone post if I can avoid it.

I've been as engage with the game as I've been able to. Switching between back reading and engaging in real time. Probably more real time. I'm in the slow process now of reading up on D2. When I'm done with that and the current day, I've read everything and retained nothing

I don't know if this tells you anything.

I don't think I've been trying to appear like I'm disengaged. Which is also a message to @Alison for what she said on D2. Like, I don't feel my play or absence has been audacious or that I've been luxuriating in it. I think it's been pretty straight forward, and the fact is that most of the time when posting, I had read little of the game. On D2, I read D1. Now I'm reading D2. It is what it is.

[robyn]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

that's not a stance, that's an observation

In the same post I was referencing, you stated a stance of "neutral lean"

If you had to lean one way or the other, which would you pick?

scum lean

I was told dizzy was the best wolf in the lobby, I reckon them not playing by meta (according to themselves and jjj) plus being just active enough to not attract attention for being inactive is more planned than unplanned

[Dyslexicon]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

that's not a stance, that's an observation

In the same post I was referencing, you stated a stance of "neutral lean"

If you had to lean one way or the other, which would you pick?

scum lean

Rude

[Marmot]

Dizzy, what do you make of lucy saying you've done next to nothing until this point?

[robyn]

Boq still hasn't talked to Marmot

What does this say to you about either or both of those players?

that they don't want to talk, which is strange

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Dyslexicon to what extent does meta play a role in your view of Ender, if at all?

[Dyslexicon]

I was told dizzy was the best wolf in the lobby, I reckon them not playing by meta (according to themselves and jjj) plus being just active enough to not attract attention for being inactive is more planned than unplanned

It's not planned at all. I could tell you exactly why I haven't been available the past few days, but I don't want to bring RL things into the game. I have way more time on my hands from now on though, as my summer vacation time has started and other circumstances has calmed down.

Also, I have attracted attention for being semi-inactive/different.

[Marmot]

Boq still hasn't talked to Marmot

What does this say to you about either or both of those players?

that they don't want to talk, which is strange

I did request an updated read from Boq of me yesterday, and I would like him to followup on that.

If I missed it Boq, please let me know.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy, what do you make of lucy saying you've done next to nothing until this point?

I don't know. I've seen some of her takes feels like they are missing the mark. Like calling out arguably the most aggressive player in game for not being aggressive. That was weird.

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexicon to what extent does meta play a role in your view of Ender, if at all?

Not much.

And right now I wondered if he's doing some meta grooming for the champs semis, but I shouldn't think about that lol

[robyn]

I was told dizzy was the best wolf in the lobby, I reckon them not playing by meta (according to themselves and jjj) plus being just active enough to not attract attention for being inactive is more planned than unplanned

It's not planned at all. I could tell you exactly why I haven't been available the past few days, but I don't want to bring RL things into the game. I have way more time on my hands from now on though, as my summer vacation time has started and other circumstances has calmed down.

Also, I have attracted attention for being semi-inactive/different.

the former is ogi that I'm not supposed to ask about to begin with, the latter is a derivative of the above thus cleverly making me (almost forcing me) to go a different route in my analysis of you, yes?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Dyslexicon to what extent does meta play a role in your view of Ender, if at all?

Not much.

And right now I wondered if he's doing some meta grooming for the champs semis, but I shouldn't think about that lol

I tend to think that champs-related meta is the least meaningful anyway given that the champs environment (especially qualifiers) is a very different beast to a Normal Game.

I'm just thinking over what you had to say about Ender while I dig in other matters. I wish to distinguish "this is a good reason for a town read" from "this is a description of a character".

[Marmot]

I was told dizzy was the best wolf in the lobby, I reckon them not playing by meta (according to themselves and jjj) plus being just active enough to not attract attention for being inactive is more planned than unplanned

It's not planned at all. I could tell you exactly why I haven't been available the past few days, but I don't want to bring RL things into the game. I have way more time on my hands from now on though, as my summer vacation time has started and other circumstances has calmed down.

Also, I have attracted attention for being semi-inactive/different.

You've attracted more than that my friend.

[Dyslexicon]

the former is ogi that I'm not supposed to ask about to begin with, the latter is a derivative of the above thus cleverly making me (almost forcing me) to go a different route in my analysis of you, yes?

I'm just telling you that it's not planned. I don't think I have every planned to be "disengaged" or less present than I could be in any game ever, and I've played a couple of hundreds probably. I don't struggle to post as either alignment. I play based on time constraints and how much I want to/feel like I have to for my team. I'm not sitting around restraining myself. So make of that what you want.

[NateTheLesser]

Putting this vote down for now:
[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

My top suspect is still Fingersplints for the same reasons as yesterday, with the additional point that Seanzie was pushing her for a time yesterday and is now dead. But I also want some more heat on Creature. I know a few people have voiced a townread, so I'm interested in hearing more about whether it's because he's playing to his town meta or something more than that.

[Marmot]

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

I don't think missing the mark as many times as she has when talking about other players is an accident.

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexicon to what extent does meta play a role in your view of Ender, if at all?

Not much.

And right now I wondered if he's doing some meta grooming for the champs semis, but I shouldn't think about that lol

I tend to think that champs-related meta is the least meaningful anyway given that the champs environment (especially qualifiers) is a very different beast to a Normal Game.

I'm just thinking over what you had to say about Ender while I dig in other matters. I wish to distinguish "this is a good reason for a town read" from "this is a description of a character".

I agree that champs meta isn't very useful. And I wasn't really thinking about meta here at all.

It's more this: Ender doesn't seem very bothered about where he is in the game state. But he does seem bothered about the game state. So that reads more town to me. Counter argument would be something like "It's faked".

[Marmot]

Putting this vote down for now:
[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

My top suspect is still Fingersplints for the same reasons as yesterday, with the additional point that Seanzie was pushing her for a time yesterday and is now dead. But I also want some more heat on Creature. I know a few people have voiced a townread, so I'm interested in hearing more about whether it's because he's playing to his town meta or something more than that.

Fair, but Sean did press a lot of people yesterday, including also myself, Jay, lucy, and probably others (Ender too maybe?)

[Dyslexicon]

You've attracted more than that my friend.

[Boquise]

Sure

You are appreciated.

The last thing I was hoping to achieve is the classical night kill analysis. Many people balk at the very idea of trying this, and I think they're wrong. Wifom is wifom blah blah, but we're remiss if we don't at least take a look. Moreover, in a mountainous game, at least one of the layers of wifom does not exist -- there are no doctor dodges. So it'd behoove us to review Mac and see where he sat. What we do with that I don't know right now, but we honor his memory enough to give him a voice.

If that's something that tickles you, I'd love to see what you come up with.

I kinda expected to be the kill because I was during D1 consensus town read with no on-going conflicts with other players. Whereas Mac, also highly town read, had a thing with Wilgy that could be exploited and easier to tinfoil because of Falcon and of site history*.

*What I mean with site history is that I am an unknown variable whilst Mac is a tried gun.

This tells me that Mac's reads can have threatened the woofs tbh

What could be exploited here?

A Mac vs Wilgy thunderdome tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@NateTheLesser I still owe Creature a full reassessment, but my initial perception on Day 3 is that a Seanzie kill may point to a town Creature. Seanzie protected him pretty staunchly, while people like myself and a few others that have been anti-Creature much of the game are still here. I wonder if that represents an invitation for us to kill him without the same resistance.

[Marmot]

Hey Boq

We should talk

[Marmot]

Wanna go for a walk?

[Dyslexicon]

A Mac vs Wilgy thunderdome tbh

But did you town read Wilgy at this point tbh?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wanna go for a walk?

Go right around the block!

[robyn]

the former is ogi that I'm not supposed to ask about to begin with, the latter is a derivative of the above thus cleverly making me (almost forcing me) to go a different route in my analysis of you, yes?

I'm just telling you that it's not planned. I don't think I have every planned to be "disengaged" or less present than I could be in any game ever, and I've played a couple of hundreds probably. I don't struggle to post as either alignment. I play based on time constraints and how much I want to/feel like I have to for my team. I'm not sitting around restraining myself. So make of that what you want.

your control of language is much higher from what I previously gleaned. and I will make of it what I will

[Dyslexicon]

@Boquise I'm dying to know your current thoughts on Fingers.

[Dyslexicon]

your control of language is much higher from what I previously gleaned. and I will make of it what I will

Are we still talking about me voting Wilgy while I'm pooping?

(Not sure what you mean by this.)

[Dyslexicon]

Oh fuck, I did the poop tell. Lockscum. Well, GG, I was Illwei

[Marmot]

Wanna go for a walk?

Go right around the block!

by the river and to the park!

[robyn]

your control of language is much higher from what I previously gleaned. and I will make of it what I will

Are we still talking about me voting Wilgy while I'm pooping?

(Not sure what you mean by this.)

I'm just making a lot of observations, because this is my first game with all 14 of you, will help me remember by putting it in chat

[Dyslexicon]

We are 8 town in thread.
72,72727272 % town
27,27272727 % mafia

[Boquise]

I'm not sure I agree as much as the rest of you that NKA points so strongly to a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison, YET. I think that would be true if the thread consensus yesterday had been that there must be a wolf in those three, but that wasn't the thread consensus IMO. (Not that it couldn't be true, I just don't think the Sean kill should make us tinfoil that trio without other reasons to tinfoil).

I'm not sure that I follow. Is there a way that you could re-word or re-state the orange portion?

Sure. Not to make everything about champs, but, I think the pattern that Boq is applying is that there were some games where it became notable that a certain group of "known to be good at the game" players weren't being NK'd (the game with Nanook/Jack/Dobby is one), and the thread consensus became that the group can't be all pure, and because there was a wolf in that group they continued to kill elsewhere so as not to narrow that "POE". And I'm saying I don't think we match that pattern at this point, because "there must be a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison" was not a consensus yesterday.

lets just depart to standard game stuff tbh
If 1 wolf gets put in the strong town group of a game, there will later be issues for said wolf. "Why are you still alive?"
Wolf can choose between two things: a) play delibaretely worse than the other strong town. b) kill outside of the group, but not inside the poe. When the "Why are you still alive" question occurs, there will be other players that question can be applied to as well.

Though I will won't discuss that much more since it is game theory tbh

[robyn]

Oh fuck, I did the poop tell. Lockscum. Well, GG, I was Illwei

@JaggedJimmyJay from what Ran told me scum makes it socially uncomfortable for me to vote them, doesn't this seem like an example to you?

[Boquise]

A Mac vs Wilgy thunderdome tbh

But did you town read Wilgy at this point tbh?

Not really? iirc they were in my middle pack of people I didnt know where to place tbh

[Boquise]

@Boquise I'm dying to know your current thoughts on Fingers.

My current thoughts on fingers is like those i had going to bed last game day:
I still think my initial town read has merit. But I dislike some of their responses in the thread and I dislike that they just laid off of me after I voiced the town read. Compare that to Rondo who fought against it tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh fuck, I did the poop tell. Lockscum. Well, GG, I was Illwei

@JaggedJimmyJay from what Ran told me scum makes it socially uncomfortable for me to vote them, doesn't this seem like an example to you?

Dizzy's making a joke. The poop tell is a reference to champs season 7. That doesn't mean anything to me with respect to Dizzy's alignment.

[NateTheLesser]

Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

@NateTheLesser, in your vote sheet, is this the Dizzy vote you have marked with ??? for the time?

Well, this shows that you're reading closely. (And it gives me an honest town ping on you, not just in a self-centered way because you're using my spreadsheet, but because to me it shows that you were interested in seeing the wagon context of Dizzy's votes while doing your ISO, which is a level of detail wolves often don't bother with if the ISO is just for show.)

Anyway, the post you quoted turned into the "hmm" that I mentioned earlier, that made me wonder if I should be paying closer attention to Dizzy. Because from their post history, there's the vote post you quoted and then their next post in the thread is this one:

I also hate that it’s tied me and Marmot. I don’t want to be forced to vote practically my only defender but I definitely won’t make it awake til EOD today

Who do you want to vote?

The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

Nice.

Forgot about this, but yes, I did forget to vote Wilgy in poll. I thought I did it when I returned, but can't remember. I recall noticing I had forgotten about it though, and I wanted my vote to be on Wilgy.

I prefer to post when on my Mac. Occasionally, I'll read on my phone when I'm on the tram or the toilet lol, but I rarely phone post if I can avoid it.

I've been as engage with the game as I've been able to. Switching between back reading and engaging in real time. Probably more real time. I'm in the slow process now of reading up on D2. When I'm done with that and the current day, I've read everything and retained nothing

I don't know if this tells you anything.

I don't think I've been trying to appear like I'm disengaged. Which is also a message to @Alison for what she said on D2. Like, I don't feel my play or absence has been audacious or that I've been luxuriating in it. I think it's been pretty straight forward, and the fact is that most of the time when posting, I had read little of the game. On D2, I read D1. Now I'm reading D2. It is what it is.

Yeah that's fair, and I didn't paint this as a "gotcha" because I don't think it is.

And to be clear, my gut vibe isn't that you're trying to appear disengaged, it's more that your votes don't seem as disengaged as your thread presence does.

Do you recall why you wanted your vote on Wilgy at that point? He wasn't a wagon, though he'd been one earlier. Was it current thread state, or something that you'd picked up on while backreading D1?

[Boquise]

a part of me want to say that Dizzy is town merely because this is pretty boring scum play tbh

[Marmot]

lol

[robyn]

Oh fuck, I did the poop tell. Lockscum. Well, GG, I was Illwei

@JaggedJimmyJay from what Ran told me scum makes it socially uncomfortable for me to vote them, doesn't this seem like an example to you?

Dizzy's making a joke. The poop tell is a reference to champs season 7. That doesn't mean anything to me with respect to Dizzy's alignment.

ah, never mind then

[Dyslexicon]

Oh fuck, I did the poop tell. Lockscum. Well, GG, I was Illwei

@JaggedJimmyJay from what Ran told me scum makes it socially uncomfortable for me to vote them, doesn't this seem like an example to you?

Why do you think it's socially uncomfortable if you vote me?

I think it's probably not a great idea.

Why are you asking Jimmay, specifically?

Puzzling, you are.

[Dyslexicon]

a part of me want to say that Dizzy is town merely because this is pretty boring scum play tbh

Ah.
Nice.

But doesn't that contradict your previous worry of me being a bystander or something?

[Boquise]

Boq still hasn't talked to Marmot

I have talked to Marmot! Just not about the things you wanted me to tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

brb pooping

[Boquise]

a part of me want to say that Dizzy is town merely because this is pretty boring scum play tbh

Ah.
Nice.

But doesn't that contradict your previous worry of me being a bystander or something?

It sure does! But I have a glass of wine with me now so I am properly armed tbh