Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Snow Dog]

My thoughts on Hedgowl are well documented. The popular opinion is that DF is the Master.

Sorry. i don't really know what you are getting at.

[zeek]

A few of them are quite under-the-radar, but vocal enough to pass as engaged in the game. Others don't seem to be. If any of them are bad, we'll have a hard time finding out without abandoning reason.

You've not done much to reassure us your on the civ side, MM, and if you weren't still recruited you'd be helping us by suspecting your former teammate(s).

Sorry that I don't have names. I had a spreadsheet at one point, but I haven't kept up with it since before I was lynched. I didn't think I would be around very long, but I clearly misread that.

Who do you think the Master is?

You don't have the names out your teammate(s)?

I'm not sure. There's a case to be made that Bass is the Master. DFaraday, while a weak case, is possible. Other than those two only a handful of players also have a NK survival but have had people speak up a bit more in their defense. It could be someone hiding, with all three lives remaining.

[keys56000000000]

I think I caught MM hinting that his recruiter team win with the civs. On one hand, since they don't have a kill, that might well be the case. On the other hand, they might simply take over the NK when The Master dies, or indeed, it could be The Master recruiting. But I think, if I was correct about that hint, that he's lying.

A team that could win with the civs, that could recruit mafia, would be devestating for the mafia. A 4-man mafia team would have a slim chance at taking on another mafia team, The Master, the civs and the recruited.

MM is going to be pushing his own agenda. It might overlap with our agenda, but I doubt we can both win together. Because of that, I caution listening to MM. He's in a perfect position to play mind games.

[zeek]

Mind games or not, lying or not, we can form our own opinions on what he says. He is at the very least a window into his team, which is all we have on them at the moment.

[keys56000000000]

Mind games or not, lying or not, we can form our own opinions on what he says. He is at the very least a window into his team, which is all we have on them at the moment.

Of course. I guess what I'm saying is, make sure your opinions are your own and not what MM wants you to think!

[Dom]

My thoughts on Hedgowl are well documented. The popular opinion is that DF is the Master.

Sorry. i don't really know what you are getting at.

Would you consider these players engaged? Would you consider them to be contributing? Would you consider them suspicious?
Hedgeowl: 118
Gotrees: 93
DFaraday: 66
Bass_The_Clever: 58
Elohcin: 55
nijuukyugou: 42

Bass and DF -- to an extent Hedgeowl-- are the only ones being seriously discussed. I don't disagree with a bass vote-- I just found this very surprising.

[zeek]

Of course. The questions I'm asking him I don't expect honest answers to, I just want to see what he'll say.

Linki - you not Bass? You voted for him yesterday. I'm not sure on a Bass vote either, just wondering what your thoughts are.

[Snow Dog]

My thoughts on Hedgowl are well documented. The popular opinion is that DF is the Master.

Sorry. i don't really know what you are getting at.

Would you consider these players engaged? Would you consider them to be contributing? Would you consider them suspicious?
Hedgeowl: 118
Gotrees: 93
DFaraday: 66
Bass_The_Clever: 58
Elohcin: 55
nijuukyugou: 42

Bass and DF -- to an extent Hedgeowl-- are the only ones being seriously discussed. I don't disagree with a bass vote-- I just found this very surprising.

I think Hedge does the minimum required. Doesn't contribute much.
Gotrees. hardly any contribution. likes to help in night polls.
DF. Again, not much from him. Pops up now and then. But I think he is often this way.
Bass. Almost certainly bad now. Probably getting my next vote.
Elo. We really are not getting anything worthwhile from her. Possible baddie I suppose.
Nij. That is lower than I expected. No opinion but worth a look at.

[S~V~S]

Well, if I were an unrecruited Cybermen killer, I would kill MM. He is still a recruit, and a threat to them as well as to us on a purely numbers basis, and cannot win with them.

If they do NOT kill him, it would be my guess that MM is in the same chatroom with the Cyber Killer.

And yeah, Dom. I expect both Eloh & Ninjajujube to be more present, especially Ninjaju. I have seen civ Eloh fall off the radar when she is not engaged in a game. And Gotrees is an enigma; he (She? I think MM called Gotrees "she" at some point, I don't recall that it was specifically mentioned elsewhere, although I may have missed it) is new and perhaps thought initially that participating via the night polls was enough, but efforts have been made by Gotrees since then to at least give lip service to standard participation, but not much, although it is easy to get lost in this thread. I went looking for Juliets last most, thinkng it was days since I had seen her post, onlyto find that she had posted this AM.

[keys56000000000]

If I had to place my bets now, I'd say DF and Hedge are bad.

Elohcin and Nijuu are interesting insofar as I can't tell if they're actually paying attention or not. Are they playing or just pretending to play? It's hard to get a read on these players because of that.

[zeek]

Are those people playing as they normally would?

*newb*

[S~V~S]

I agree re Hedge tbh; like Ninjuju I would have expected more involvement from a civ Hedge.

I can see the case against Faraday, and agree it is probably true. My initial issue with it was that the initial case presented was based totally on blendiness, and Faraday is the blendiest person I have ever played with, bad or good. But yeah, subsequent points have been good ones.

[Dom]

I agree re Hedge tbh; like Ninjuju I would have expected more involvement from a civ Hedge.

I can see the case against Faraday, and agree it is probably true. My initial issue with it was that the initial case presented was based totally on blendiness, and Faraday is the blendiest person I have ever played with, bad or good. But yeah, subsequent points have been good ones.

Having had a lot of experience with DFaraday-- I would say his baddie game generally comes with a lot more posts about solely defending himself or zero actual content. His civvie game play is much more productive in that sense.

[S~V~S]

I agree re Hedge tbh; like Ninjuju I would have expected more involvement from a civ Hedge.

I can see the case against Faraday, and agree it is probably true. My initial issue with it was that the initial case presented was based totally on blendiness, and Faraday is the blendiest person I have ever played with, bad or good. But yeah, subsequent points have been good ones.

Having had a lot of experience with DFaraday-- I would say his baddie game generally comes with a lot more posts about solely defending himself or zero actual content. His civvie game play is much more productive in that sense.

And what do you see here? I have never learned to qualify his blendiness.

[Dom]

I agree re Hedge tbh; like Ninjuju I would have expected more involvement from a civ Hedge.

I can see the case against Faraday, and agree it is probably true. My initial issue with it was that the initial case presented was based totally on blendiness, and Faraday is the blendiest person I have ever played with, bad or good. But yeah, subsequent points have been good ones.

Having had a lot of experience with DFaraday-- I would say his baddie game generally comes with a lot more posts about solely defending himself or zero actual content. His civvie game play is much more productive in that sense.

And what do you see here? I have never learned to qualify his blendiness.

I wasn't sure how to qualify it in this game until this happened.

Here, DFaraday says I have been a "question mark" to him "all game". He says that he has "no idea" about nju. This was 2:38 AM EST on October 25th.

At 3:06 PM EST, Epig posts this. He says that two of his ideas for the Master are me and nju.

At 6:35 PM EST, DFaraday posts the following:

DF, who do you think the Master is? Surely he's likely going to be under the radar, like yourself, so how else can a case be formed?

I am considering Dom and Ninja as possibilities, although I don't really have any evidence since, as you pointed out, since we don't know the Master as having BTSC with anyone it does make finding him difficult. I also don't want to excuse Chris from that role, just because everyone seems to have accepted at face value that he's a civ. I just think that it's a terrible strategy to let virtually confirmed baddies be and go lynching people based on hunches. The circle must be broken.

EBWOP: So you've determined that nobody else in the game could be the Master except Elo? That's...implausible.

Which I found interesting given that he had made no mention of either of us in the interim. That's a 14 hour period-- and now he think that nju and I could be the Master.

I think he saw Epig's post and thought it was a safe place to hid behind. I do not think we have civvie DFaraday at work here. I know Epig (and myself) already brought this up to an extent, but I think it means he is bad. I also think Bass is bad (obviously).

[Long Con]

Works for me. I'd still like to see Bass lynched... but let's see what Strax does in the meantime.

[birdwithteeth11]

I'm working on catching up (shouldn't be too much longer), but then I will be making a major, significant change when I am done.

Also, if I can get the night PMs in early enough, I will try to get an early post up. I have to be up a bit earlier than normal for work tomorrow because of competition checks, so that way, an earlier night post benefits everyone!

[Long Con]

A Major Significant Change?

[Dom]

Works for me. I'd still like to see Bass lynched... but let's see what Strax does in the meantime.

I agree..

I'm working on catching up (shouldn't be too much longer), but then I will be making a major, significant change when I am done.

Also, if I can get the night PMs in early enough, I will try to get an early post up. I have to be up a bit earlier than normal for work tomorrow because of competition checks, so that way, an earlier night post benefits everyone!

Making a major significant change?

[Dom]

A Major Significant Change?

[Marmot]

Of course. The questions I'm asking him I don't expect honest answers to, I just want to see what he'll say.

Linki - you not Bass? You voted for him yesterday. I'm not sure on a Bass vote either, just wondering what your thoughts are.

What if I told you that I was honestly going to start a new spreadsheet?

[Epignosis]

Pardon me for skimming- just got home- but why are people thinking Bass is Cyber? I see no lynch switches and lynch stops in the Cybermen roles. So he's obviously not a Cyberman- he has to be a secret role.

[S~V~S]

I think he's a recruited cyber.

[birdwithteeth11]

Alright. Here is your major, significant change. I'll update the lynch post later on, because I'm doing this while trying to watch football. But for now, I would like to apologize from both bea and myself. She told me that she goofed up the lynch last night and misinterpreted a description of a role. Which, in doing so, led her to declare a no lynch. When in reality, it should have read and is...


Bass has been lynched. He was The Cyber Controller.

So yeah, Bass should have died with his role revealed. I apologize for all the confusion I'm sure has been caused. We return you to your regularly scheduled mafia game of death.

[Epignosis]

I think he's a recruited cyber.

Any reason why?

[Epignosis]

Well never mind. Holy shit.

[S~V~S]

Well, it does not say he was recruited, so there is that.

[Tangrowth]

MM, I'm not sure what you mean, but figure you're probably trolling me. Lol. But I'll explain anyway. I was compiling the possibilities for Bass that everyone was discussing, and I said which pair I believed to be most likely (recruited Cyber), but stated there's nothing to prove against any of those four possibilities.

As to quieter players...

Hedgeowl - I've already said why I think she's not a likely recruiter candidate. I don't have her pegged as Cyber either. I guess she could be The Master...? I hadn't really thought about that though. I could see considering her eventually, but she's not even remotely high on my list at the moment.
Gotrees - I definitely believe he is civvie. Could be recruited but doubt it.
DFaraday - Torn. Civvie? Master? Recruited/recruiter? Just don't know right now. Definitely a suspect though.
Bass_The_Clever - Definitely bad. Just not sure what exactly, but I think he's a recruited Cyber if I had to guess.
Elohcin - No reason to believe she is bad. Could be recruited but doubt it.
nijuukyugou - ?????

Linki: WTF. Wow, that's a good result. DAMN at him not being recruited though. Hmmm...

[keys56000000000]

Well, that's great. Doesn't explain the lynch switch and stop, unless they are powers the Cybers had that weren't listed.

That, or, one of the secret roles is a civilian, has lynch-switch and stop powers, and genuinely believed Bass to be a civ.

IDK what to believe right now. Chris, you got the answers?

[Marmot]

That was significant.

[Tangrowth]

Well, that changes some things. Have to think mull on this. DF goes back up a bit higher on the list now. I also think maybe Snowy is the recruited Cyber we're looking for.

Linki w/ keys: Yeah, I'm not sure I understand either, but it seems the "stop" yesterday was a host error then?

[S~V~S]

Yeah, there was no stop, only a switch.

[Marmot]

MM, I'm not sure what you mean, but figure you're probably trolling me. Lol. But I'll explain anyway. I was compiling the possibilities for Bass that everyone was discussing, and I said which pair I believed to be most likely (recruited Cyber), but stated there's nothing to prove against any of those four possibilities.

Could you remind me what post you're responding to? I'm lost here.

[keys56000000000]

Linki w/ keys: Yeah, I'm not sure I understand either, but it seems the "stop" yesterday was a host error then?

Ah, right, of course.

Well, I'm still suspicious of DF, Gotrees and Hedge. Going to keep looking there. I'm still fairly confident SD is civ. Unsure about Elo and Nijuu.

[keys56000000000]

IDK about you guys, but, contrary to the nay-sayers who are sure we're all doomed, I get the distinct feeling that we civs are cleaning up, here.

[Tangrowth]

MM, I'm not sure what you mean, but figure you're probably trolling me. Lol. But I'll explain anyway. I was compiling the possibilities for Bass that everyone was discussing, and I said which pair I believed to be most likely (recruited Cyber), but stated there's nothing to prove against any of those four possibilities.

Could you remind me what post you're responding to? I'm lost here.

It's the one where I listed four possibilities for Bass "could" being and you asked if it was ironic. Doesn't really matter now though.

Linki w/ keys: Yeah, I'm not sure I understand either, but it seems the "stop" yesterday was a host error then?

Ah, right, of course.

Well, I'm still suspicious of DF, Gotrees and Hedge. Going to keep looking there. I'm still fairly confident SD is civ. Unsure about Elo and Nijuu.

I don't understand your confidence in Snowy; I presume it's thread-based?

Because I really would shit my pants if he was anything but bad at this point. His behavior is suspicious and now that we know Bass was Cyber, it pretty much follows that Snowy is Cyber. And hopefully recruited.

DF and Snowy top my list for tomorrow, and I could consider a few others, BUT we need to see what happens tonight first, I think.

Linki w/ keys: I think so too, actually.

[Marmot]

MM, I'm not sure what you mean, but figure you're probably trolling me. Lol. But I'll explain anyway. I was compiling the possibilities for Bass that everyone was discussing, and I said which pair I believed to be most likely (recruited Cyber), but stated there's nothing to prove against any of those four possibilities.

Could you remind me what post you're responding to? I'm lost here.

It's the one where I listed four possibilities for Bass "could" being and you asked if it was ironic. Doesn't really matter now though.

Well you started with "Here are the facts" followed with a bunch of coulds. But yes, I was trolling.

I won't have much time to respond over the next few hours. I kinda wish this night could be extended now, but I don't think that'll happen.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, I get it. LOL.

[keys56000000000]

Because I really would shit my pants if he was anything but bad at this point. His behavior is suspicious and now that we know Bass was Cyber, it pretty much follows that Snowy is Cyber. And hopefully recruited.

Can you summerise what links Snow to Bass? I have no confirmation that SD is civ, but it is rare that I so strongly believe in a player. Don't make me battle to keep him alive, that was tiring with Chris.

[Tangrowth]

Sure, keys, let me find it for you.

[Tangrowth]

Here you go:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 108#p93108

Within that I link back to my original "main" (although there are several) posts why Bass and Snowy are bad, and the reasons I think they are bad are paralleled somewhat.

Let me know what you think.

[zeek]

Bass wasn't recruited. Dunno where this leaves us.

What if I told you that I was honestly going to start a new spreadsheet?

I would believe you. Baddies and civs both use spreadsheets to figure things out.

[nijuukyugou]

I myself am slightly surprised (though not much so) at my post count in comparison to others. This month has been stupid busy for me in RL: every weekend has been filled with traveling, visiting, and general eventfulness, and much of my free time after that is filled with more paperwork than I've ever been cursed with at work (pretty sure due to the complete lack of teacher workdays. Genius planning on the schedulers there). About a week or so ago I fell several pages behind in the thread (I think it might've been the first Bass lynch, or before that), and I haven't been able to catch up since, and honestly, I do not have the time or drive to read those 10-15 pages. I'm doing what I can at the moment from there, and I'm currently trying to keep up, but I feel like since I missed that chunk, I'm very confused about theories and I don't have anything new/thoughtful to contribute in that direction. I hate that I seem to be falling lower than expected by several people.

So, I'll offer my thoughts as best as I can put them across with what I've missed:

1) This Bass mess is very odd. Very odd indeed. I see people on different sides, saying that he had a switch, then possibly a stop, a la Clue. Others say someone ELSE might have the switch, then stop because Bass has a kickass role they don't want to get rid of (so I assume people in that camp think he's recruited). Then others say he might be the Master, and these are his kill-stops. At the moment, I'm inclined towards the first assumption - that either through prizes or his role or a combination of the two, has avoided two lynches. I am confused about the recruiting in general, so I can't really offer much of an opinion in that direction, but I also wouldn't throw that out. Either way, he looks bad. The question is, do I want to use another vote on him tomorrow? That I will think about.

2) Mentions of me (and Dom) have been made by Epi, and then DF. First, I wonder why I was mentioned as a potential candidate for the Master. It wasn't really explained, and the only speculation others have had is my quietness. Soooo...is there something else? But then, like others pointed out, why did DF so suddenly have us on his radar within hours of Epi's non-explained suspicion? The argument that he's been opportunistic, based on this and other instances pointed out, looks sound to me.

3) As for quieter people, well, I empathize. However, I know I've fallen off in the last couple of cycles, but while my posts are few, they at least have something in them for the most part. People can post hundreds of times with nonsense and often do, and others can post little with also little substance. If you're going to look at quiet people and call them "flying under the radar," make sure you look at their content as well as their count.

I am happy to answer what I can if others want to hear from me. I graded a shit ton of work today and I may actually be able to participate a bit more today (in two games. Huzzah!). If I feel really ambitious, perhaps I'll even make a spreadsheet like I normally do. Perhaps. But now, off to make dinner and get a pumpkin to carve. Hooray!

[keys56000000000]

OK MP7, I has read through what you've got to say on SD and my feelings are basically that you are confusing a misguided civ for a bad guy.

SD is someone who has made mistakes. He's the victim of unfortunate circunstances. He's been frustrated, paranoid, misguided -- literally, when you declared TH was The Master and voted for him. He is not someone with a team passing him info, advice, anything. He is a lone civvie who has got stuck into this game, found himself in unfortunate circumstances, and is finding it hard to defend himself against articulate players. Of this I am convinced.

[Dom]

2) Mentions of me (and Dom) have been made by Epi, and then DF. First, I wonder why I was mentioned as a potential candidate for the Master. It wasn't really explained, and the only speculation others have had is my quietness. Soooo...is there something else? But then, like others pointed out, why did DF so suddenly have us on his radar within hours of Epi's non-explained suspicion? The argument that he's been opportunistic, based on this and other instances pointed out, looks sound to me.

Can you point me to where people have called DFaraday, specifically, opportunistic? Or are you characterizing other people's thoughts on him?

[Long Con]

Bass wasn't recruited. Dunno where this leaves us.

I wasn't counting on him being recruited for any reason but to explain the lynch save that never really happened. I would like every lynch to be a recruited baddie like Roxy, but you can't always get what you want! Glad to have Bass gone just to avoid Strax having a fail on him.

[zeek]

Think this game is getting too much for me now :P I have no idea who is good and who is bad. Guess roles don't matter anymore! I'm too old for this.

[Elohcin]

voted John Barrowman.

[Dom]

voted John Barrowman.

Is that all you have to say?

[S~V~S]

Actually, i thought it was kinda funny, since all the choices were John Barrowman