King of the Hill Mafia

[MacDougall]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I find it difficult to comprehend you even humouring the idea of me being mafia. I am playing in my most billboard of town meta.

I kinda agree with you that you probably would have just shot SPF if you were mafia. Which is why I think if you are mafia your most likely partner is SPF. I don't really disagree with your solve presuming I am town either and that is why I am currently examining worlds assuming you are town. I am not lock clearing you just for posting townie when you are objectively deathtunnelling a townie D2 (even if we want to gloss over the falcon stuff D1) and I know you are capable of getting away with that as a wolf. If you are town then trust that I will get there on you by the end of today.

Are you not an exponent of always resolving the day 1 wagons when they are a split?
Did we not have a public conversation to this effect in the past several days?
Given that, how can you suspect me for pushing you here when all I am doing is what you have made clear when out of game, you would do always?

Me, not pushing you here, is misplaying by your very definition of mafia.

[Alison]

I kinda think SPF is likely mafia. What is your read on SPF, Mac?

[MacDougall]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

[Creature]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I was pretty fine just staying on falcon45ca. I already had laid my reasons to be suspecting falcon and I could've just sheeped Mac on Porscha being town and falcon being wolf. I didn't need to keep flipflopping between falcon and Porscha and attempt to push Porscha over falcon until Porscha no longer was a viable push. Also I prob just kill Mac here if he is town. He already caught me fairly easily last game.

I dunno about Porscha. Is the volume tell thing true? I still feel suspicious about the Porscha wagon dying in favor of the falcon wagon thunderdoming Alison wagon.

[staypositivefriend]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

[Alison]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I find it difficult to comprehend you even humouring the idea of me being mafia. I am playing in my most billboard of town meta.

I kinda agree with you that you probably would have just shot SPF if you were mafia. Which is why I think if you are mafia your most likely partner is SPF. I don't really disagree with your solve presuming I am town either and that is why I am currently examining worlds assuming you are town. I am not lock clearing you just for posting townie when you are objectively deathtunnelling a townie D2 (even if we want to gloss over the falcon stuff D1) and I know you are capable of getting away with that as a wolf. If you are town then trust that I will get there on you by the end of today.

Are you not an exponent of always resolving the day 1 wagons when they are a split?
Did we not have a public conversation to this effect in the past several days?
Given that, how can you suspect me for pushing you here when all I am doing is what you have made clear when out of game, you would do always?

Me, not pushing you here, is misplaying by your very definition of mafia.

I think calling me bad faith and saying I am misrepping you is somewhat different from just policying me because I am D1 counterwagon, especially since you did it D1 as well.

I am currently solving in Mac town worlds so again stop getting hung up on the fact that I am not prepared to lock clear you and help me do it if you are town.

[robyn]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

[VOTE: arogame123] aubergine

sorry for the rand

Weird flex but okay.

I'm here for the tea.

[MacDougall]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I find it difficult to comprehend you even humouring the idea of me being mafia. I am playing in my most billboard of town meta.

I kinda agree with you that you probably would have just shot SPF if you were mafia. Which is why I think if you are mafia your most likely partner is SPF. I don't really disagree with your solve presuming I am town either and that is why I am currently examining worlds assuming you are town. I am not lock clearing you just for posting townie when you are objectively deathtunnelling a townie D2 (even if we want to gloss over the falcon stuff D1) and I know you are capable of getting away with that as a wolf. If you are town then trust that I will get there on you by the end of today.

Are you not an exponent of always resolving the day 1 wagons when they are a split?
Did we not have a public conversation to this effect in the past several days?
Given that, how can you suspect me for pushing you here when all I am doing is what you have made clear when out of game, you would do always?

Me, not pushing you here, is misplaying by your very definition of mafia.

I think calling me bad faith and saying I am misrepping you is somewhat different from just policying me because I am D1 counterwagon, especially since you did it D1 as well.

I am currently solving in Mac town worlds so again stop getting hung up on the fact that I am not prepared to lock clear you and help me do it if you are town.

Noting your refusal to answer the question and yet again saying things I didn't say.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I am not at all confident on Nanook being town.

[Alison]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

I am playing around the possibility of me being wrong about Porscha because I find it very strange that a Porscha team would kill Jack which has made me doubt my Porscha read a little. So flipping Porscha first would prove Creature's alignment, whereas if Creature is town then Porscha can be any alignment.

Keep in mind that this is in a world after I have flipped so it's kinda absurd to imply that I am trying to create scum agenda for it when it would only occur after my alignment has been publicized by the mod.

[staypositivefriend]

this is possibly a stupid read, but i'm not sure if alison would be incentivized to push me in a world where she's a wolf. i am the only player in the game who has consistently and vocally defended her, and if she is a wolf, i imagine she would want to make sure that i'm cotninuing to side with her, and calling me a wolf and trying to get people to suspect me is the worst possible approach she could take in a world where she wants to pocket me

i'm also reminded of the game i just played with her, where she was a wolf and she consistently townread me "too easily" and tried to make sure i stayed in her good graces - her approach to me in this game is almost the exact opposite of that

[Alison]

Noting your refusal to answer the question and yet again saying things I didn't say.

It was implicitly answered by what I said. Yes and yes.

[staypositivefriend]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

[Creature]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

Where Alison ever said that? I only remember one post where Alison considered the world I am wolf where I either saved Porscha (which I did not because I ended up voting there until I was forced to Alison v falcon thunderdome) or just could've sat and ate popcorn in the world all of Alison/falcon/Porscha were town.

Also pretty sure Alison pointed an alternative world where SPF (and Neon I guess?) were wolves with a undefined third player.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

Good thing I'm not competent

[Alison]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I was pretty fine just staying on falcon45ca. I already had laid my reasons to be suspecting falcon and I could've just sheeped Mac on Porscha being town and falcon being wolf. I didn't need to keep flipflopping between falcon and Porscha and attempt to push Porscha over falcon until Porscha no longer was a viable push. Also I prob just kill Mac here if he is town. He already caught me fairly easily last game.

I dunno about Porscha. Is the volume tell thing true? I still feel suspicious about the Porscha wagon dying in favor of the falcon wagon thunderdoming Alison wagon.

I don't know if Porscha's volume tell thing is true, I have seen like two games of theirs and they were town in both games. I think Mac believes Porscha has a volume tell regardless of his alignment.

[staypositivefriend]

i thought porscha had a reasonably towny EOD yesterday even if i'm not sure what her ranges are typically like as either alignment. i'm not sure i understand the case against her because she ended up resolving a lot of the issues i had with her in the first half of d1 (ie: lack of passion in reads, pushes that felt fake, etc)

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I don't think the tinfoil against SPF is actually that bad this game because the gamestate was terrible and chaotic and I perceive that she would be more likely to step in to restore order to the town. I guess she kinda tried but it was ineffectual and perhaps it was intentionally ineffectual. The nightkill points to her as I have argued. If I wanted to reach a bit I could say she has TMI on her Alison read as well.

I agree that Lily and Neon should be forever POE'd if Mac is town... actually I think Neon is very likely to be hard outed as wolves with SPF if he is.

Let me tell you how this is gonna go when you flip me...

"What the fuck why is Neon like this..."

Like it does every single time someone who doesn't know me flips me

[Alison]

@MacDougall

What is your read on SPF? Like right now, not "potential tinfoil in the future". I gave reasons to scumread her, what did you think of them?

If Creature is mafia as you believe then why does he kill Jack instead of you? If it is a frame as you have said, there's no way that Creature wins a 1v1 with Billboard Town Mac yes?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

its ur lucky day mac because i am not a competent wolf

Hey that was my line

[robyn]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

[MacDougall]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

Where Alison ever said that? I only remember one post where Alison considered the world I am wolf where I either saved Porscha (which I did not because I ended up voting there until I was forced to Alison v falcon thunderdome) or just could've sat and ate popcorn in the world all of Alison/falcon/Porscha were town.

Also pretty sure Alison pointed an alternative world where SPF (and Neon I guess?) were wolves with a undefined third player.

Alison has you as always mafia with wolf Porscha and she believes Porscha is always a wolf. I know how Alison thinks and if Alison was town (which, let's be honest she simply is never in 100 years town here and the fact that anyone could believe that she is demonstrates how good she is as a wolf and how bad everyone else is at mafia) Alison would just be tunneling Porscha right now and entirely okay with doming them both and killing the other if one flips town. That is literally all she'd be bothering to do right now. And based on a solve she just produced she has you as wolf with Porscha so right now she'd just be like "fine fuck you mac kill me but please kill creature and porscha immediately afterwards" and yet she is not. Because she is mafia and she is trying to survive and she is also trying to spew at the same time.

There's like nothing townie about her play.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.

You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?

Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

hmmmm

you would look at me and neon? two players who heavily TR'd you enough to sheep ur falcon vote, but both got cold feet right at the end? do you think that's indicative of scummy behavior?

Blowing smoke up my ass while I counterwagon a town and save a mafia teammate isn't a very long bow lily. Any reasonably competent wolf knows that townreading me is the easiest way to deal with me.

its ur lucky day mac because i am not a competent wolf

Whether or not I believe that to be the case, Neon is one.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall

What is your read on SPF? Like right now, not "potential tinfoil in the future". I gave reasons to scumread her, what did you think of them?

If Creature is mafia as you believe then why does he kill Jack instead of you? If it is a frame as you have said, there's no way that Creature wins a 1v1 with Billboard Town Mac yes?

I think SPF is probably town still.

I think Creature killed Jack because he spewed Jack town at the end of the day and feels like he'd never be able to get Jack over, and also Jack was townreading me. Other reasons belong to other teammates.

Creature doesn't have to 1v1 me he just has to outlive me.

But as I said other reasons belong to other teammates.

[staypositivefriend]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

i mean, what incentive does lily have to NOT listen to you in a world where she's a wolf and you're town? if she's mafia then she has the perfect excuse to park her vote on falcon and not look responsible for him dying, since you directly told her to. why would she bother making a last second vanity vote? what does she gain from doing that?

it was unstrategic in a way that probably means she's playing from an uninformed perspective, and i actually think lily is becoming one of my most confident townreads in general

[Creature]

Also Porscha + me world doesn't make a single sense because I would always kill in Alison/Mac/SPF who are the players I fear the most as wolf, unless the third wolf is a straight up full-on-sexual-hormones gambling type of player. In Midnight Mash where I was wolf I ended up nightkilling catbae/Gira, julia and tried to kill Mac so I aalmost always go for SPK if they're town.

[robyn]

what does spk mean

[staypositivefriend]

unless the third wolf is a straight up full-on-sexual-hormones gambling type of player

this is the most horrifying description of a risky mafia player ive ever seen in my life

[Alison]

Alison has you as always mafia with wolf Porscha and she believes Porscha is always a wolf. I know how Alison thinks and if Alison was town (which, let's be honest she simply is never in 100 years town here and the fact that anyone could believe that she is demonstrates how good she is as a wolf and how bad everyone else is at mafia) Alison would just be tunneling Porscha right now and entirely okay with doming them both and killing the other if one flips town. That is literally all she'd be bothering to do right now. And based on a solve she just produced she has you as wolf with Porscha so right now she'd just be like "fine fuck you mac kill me but please kill creature and porscha immediately afterwards" and yet she is not. Because she is mafia and she is trying to survive and she is also trying to spew at the same time.

There's like nothing townie about her play.

One of the first things I said when I came in today was that a Jack kill is really odd for any team with Porscha to make. I explicitly said that my ordering of Porscha/Creature was in order to avoid killing a second townie if I am wrong on Porscha.

[Creature]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

Where Alison ever said that? I only remember one post where Alison considered the world I am wolf where I either saved Porscha (which I did not because I ended up voting there until I was forced to Alison v falcon thunderdome) or just could've sat and ate popcorn in the world all of Alison/falcon/Porscha were town.

Also pretty sure Alison pointed an alternative world where SPF (and Neon I guess?) were wolves with a undefined third player.

Alison has you as always mafia with wolf Porscha and she believes Porscha is always a wolf. I know how Alison thinks and if Alison was town (which, let's be honest she simply is never in 100 years town here and the fact that anyone could believe that she is demonstrates how good she is as a wolf and how bad everyone else is at mafia) Alison would just be tunneling Porscha right now and entirely okay with doming them both and killing the other if one flips town. That is literally all she'd be bothering to do right now. And based on a solve she just produced she has you as wolf with Porscha so right now she'd just be like "fine fuck you mac kill me but please kill creature and porscha immediately afterwards" and yet she is not. Because she is mafia and she is trying to survive and she is also trying to spew at the same time.

There's like nothing townie about her play.

Bruh wtf now you are straight making things up

She never said Porscha and I are always wolves.

Also you're literally saying that her logic is: Porscha is always wolf -> Creature is always wolf if Porscha is wolf -> Therefore Creature is more likely to be wolf than Porscha.

[MacDougall]

Also Porscha + me world doesn't make a single sense because I would always kill in Alison/Mac/SPF who are the players I fear the most as wolf, unless the third wolf is a straight up full-on-sexual-hormones gambling type of player. In Midnight Mash where I was wolf I ended up nightkilling catbae/Gira, julia and tried to kill Mac so I aalmost always go for SPK if they're town.

Well I don't think you're with Porscha I think you're with Alison.

And I think you killed Jack because you spewed him town.

And I think you killed Jack because he's bait and you and Alison more than anyone know that he is bait. People always feel like Jack is a viable miselim but he rarely ever ends up being one and then stings you in the mid to late game.

And Jack would have been very helpful to me on day 2 alive townreading me as he was.

And killing me just directly points at both you and Alison as sleepwalk chops after how I handled you both during the end of the day.

So you kill the person who is sure I am town, that you know you can't miselim later and you just try to wear me out during day 2 and get Porscha over and kill me night 2 most likely.

Especially because SPF was townreading both of you, so SPF is not yet a threat to either of you (or is the third mafia).

[Alison]

Mac you can't go on a rant about how I tunnel townies when I am town and then call me an outed wolf for trying to play around the possibility my D1 wolfread was wrong when a nightkill that makes it unlikely shows up. Like if you want to policy me just policy me, god knows I'm not in a position to give you shit about it, but if you are town then I would like to spend the 47 hours between now and EOD figuring out who the mafia is with you rather than read post after post of you calling my reasoning garbage and bad faith.

[MacDougall]

Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison

Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.

I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

Where Alison ever said that? I only remember one post where Alison considered the world I am wolf where I either saved Porscha (which I did not because I ended up voting there until I was forced to Alison v falcon thunderdome) or just could've sat and ate popcorn in the world all of Alison/falcon/Porscha were town.

Also pretty sure Alison pointed an alternative world where SPF (and Neon I guess?) were wolves with a undefined third player.

Alison has you as always mafia with wolf Porscha and she believes Porscha is always a wolf. I know how Alison thinks and if Alison was town (which, let's be honest she simply is never in 100 years town here and the fact that anyone could believe that she is demonstrates how good she is as a wolf and how bad everyone else is at mafia) Alison would just be tunneling Porscha right now and entirely okay with doming them both and killing the other if one flips town. That is literally all she'd be bothering to do right now. And based on a solve she just produced she has you as wolf with Porscha so right now she'd just be like "fine fuck you mac kill me but please kill creature and porscha immediately afterwards" and yet she is not. Because she is mafia and she is trying to survive and she is also trying to spew at the same time.

There's like nothing townie about her play.

Bruh wtf now you are straight making things up

She never said Porscha and I are always wolves.

Also you're literally saying that her logic is: Porscha is always wolf -> Creature is always wolf if Porscha is wolf -> Therefore Creature is more likely to be wolf than Porscha.

She said that you are always mafia with Porscha. Literally.

She also would have Porscha as a lock wolf if she was town.

[Creature]

Mac doesn't make a single sense here. He is blatantly misrepresenting Alison's reads.

[MacDougall]

Mac you can't go on a rant about how I tunnel townies when I am town and then call me an outed wolf for trying to play around the possibility my D1 wolfread was wrong when a nightkill that makes it unlikely shows up. Like if you want to policy me just policy me, god knows I'm not in a position to give you shit about it, but if you are town then I would like to spend the 47 hours between now and EOD figuring out who the mafia is with you rather than read post after post of you calling my reasoning garbage and bad faith.

Your town policy set is very well documented and you are not playing to it. I don't need more than that. If you start playing to it maybe I'll reevalate but it's your own fault if you are town and chose this game to subvert all of your own town policies.

[staypositivefriend]

i'm mildly concerned that i cleared creature too easily, and i think it could be a contributing factor for why i'm still alive. creature has made a lot of posts that project paranoia/pessimism about the gamestate, which i think is a distinctly towny trait for him, but i think his play has been lacking in terms of his overall solving

most of the posts that he makes are one-liner, quippy observations that are disconnected from each other and aren't helping to inform his broader worldview, and i think this specific mindset of making a lot of towny-sounding posts in the moment without them building up to something bigger is a lot closer to how he approaches games as a wolf than as town

i also take quite a lot of issue with many of his posts both today and toward the EOD yesterday, i'm put off by him voting boq because "boq would make a gamer kill", when creature would certainly realize that boq would have zero incentive to kill jack if he thought about it for 10 seconds. i'm put off by how quickly creature changed his view on falcon being town once falcon became a viable wagon, and his reasoning for doing so felt overly vague and generalized. in general, i am struggling to see a coherent worldview forming from creature's posts, and i consider that to be a major red flag for him

i'm not really sold on him being mafia, just expressing this thought because it's starting to seem a bit more likely to me

[robyn]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

i mean, what incentive does lily have to NOT listen to you in a world where she's a wolf and you're town? if she's mafia then she has the perfect excuse to park her vote on falcon and not look responsible for him dying, since you directly told her to. why would she bother making a last second vanity vote? what does she gain from doing that?

it was unstrategic in a way that probably means she's playing from an uninformed perspective, and i actually think lily is becoming one of my most confident townreads in general

would've tied the Lynch, lily would've been policy lynched but that's okay because she's been suspected and we'd be forced to spend 3 lynches going lily/falcon/Alison where there's 1 wolf for 4 NK's
I hard disagree with a lily TR, she'd sheep me in every town scenario unless she had someone else telling her what to do (saying falcon was obv town at EOD imo was tmo (lily's actual messages contradict this but I don't care))
I do think lily/Alison have a difference check if and only if Alison flips scum
but more to the point I believe that town lily always follows me there

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

Hmm...I was thinking this after EoD but nobody seemed to be SRing him so I dropped it

[Alison]

Mac you can't go on a rant about how I tunnel townies when I am town and then call me an outed wolf for trying to play around the possibility my D1 wolfread was wrong when a nightkill that makes it unlikely shows up. Like if you want to policy me just policy me, god knows I'm not in a position to give you shit about it, but if you are town then I would like to spend the 47 hours between now and EOD figuring out who the mafia is with you rather than read post after post of you calling my reasoning garbage and bad faith.

Your town policy set is very well documented and you are not playing to it. I don't need more than that. If you start playing to it maybe I'll reevalate but it's your own fault if you are town and chose this game to subvert all of your own town policies.

Cool, if you think that's how it is then lockvote me. Your stance on me is well documented, I'll vote myself at 1 hour to EOD and you can all consider me outed and flip me anyway if I do not.

My offer to you to solve with me instead of fill up the threads with repetition of "Alison is mafia" stands. I don't know why you aren't taking it when you know that if we are both town we can solve the entire game before EOD2.

[MacDougall]

During the latter part of day 1 Alison returned to the thread to find herself wagoned and she stated "I see Porscha and Jack have continued to out even further".

She had already called Porscha an outed wolf, and dropped a case pointing out how every time Porscha was wagoned some imaginary force stopped the wagon.

If this is Alison town. There is no world in which Alison enters day 2 with nothing but an absolute conviction in Porscha being a wolf and pushing her over.

If you read the second to last page in Alison's ISO, there is nothing about Alison's day 2 (or Creature's) that makes a lick of sense for her.

Hell she even postulated Creature as a Porscha teammate ON DAY 1. And Creature is saying I'm making shit up.

It's literally all there. All you have to do is be fucked reading her ISO.

You can also see why Jack is dead through her ISO. Because both Creature AND Alison spewed him town.

[Lilypetal]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

can you explain why?

You voted me for no reason, you cleared Porscha for no reason. You cleared Neon for... some reason, but you still cleared her, which means you would be a natural fit for both Porscha and Neon teams. Your EOD vote was extremely bad from a game theory point of view and would make the most sense if you genuinely wasn't sure who would go over, didn't particularly care, and just wanted to avoid being on a town wagon at EOD.

You have repped a strong arogame scumread. Why?

i dont rly remember why i voted you at the time but I just generally thought how you were positioning yourself in the game and how the sentiment was "omg we cant lunch the good players" made you a solid powerwolf candidate. I changed my vote very soon after because I didn't rly trust in the read though.

porscha i just didn't feel comfy on cuz AtE really effects me badly and I read it more as towny frustration so I didn't want to vote her.

Neon I kinda SR'd for how she was playing but her explanation made sense to me and afterwards I was definitely noticing v!neon pings.

The latter two explanations you should be able to find in my ISO. This is not fabricated.

If you think it's fake that's whatever but the reasons are there.

I think why I changed my vote makes sense to me tbh I'm an emotional player so I don't always do the correct play. It didn't change anything and the alternative was me burying you so you should thank me tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I just got a haircut so tonight is a good night

[robyn]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

Hmm...I was thinking this after EoD but nobody seemed to be SRing him so I dropped it

I had this 12h into d1
again after falcon's death
but I have a small difference check on Alison/nook

[Lilypetal]

@lucy can u link the post i didnt listen to u in

[robyn]

@Lilypetal do not change votes

[Lilypetal]

oh i found it

i dont really know why it matters lol

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Actual footage of me watching Alison v Mac. I feel so lonely over here.

I still think someone on my early wagon was woof and I still think Creature makes the most sense *shrugs*

Omgussss

[Creature]

i'm mildly concerned that i cleared creature too easily, and i think it could be a contributing factor for why i'm still alive. creature has made a lot of posts that project paranoia/pessimism about the gamestate, which i think is a distinctly towny trait for him, but i think his play has been lacking in terms of his overall solving

most of the posts that he makes are one-liner, quippy observations that are disconnected from each other and aren't helping to inform his broader worldview, and i think this specific mindset of making a lot of towny-sounding posts in the moment without them building up to something bigger is a lot closer to how he approaches games as a wolf than as town

i also take quite a lot of issue with many of his posts both today and toward the EOD yesterday, i'm put off by him voting boq because "boq would make a gamer kill", when creature would certainly realize that boq would have zero incentive to kill jack if he thought about it for 10 seconds. i'm put off by how quickly creature changed his view on falcon being town once falcon became a viable wagon, and his reasoning for doing so felt overly vague and generalized. in general, i am struggling to see a coherent worldview forming from creature's posts, and i consider that to be a major red flag for him

i'm not really sold on him being mafia, just expressing this thought because it's starting to seem a bit more likely to me

Ftr I always kill in you/Alison/Mac if I'm wolf, maybe Boq. I pretty much commanded the N1 kills in the Midnight Mash and they all were on players I deemed strong (catbae/Gira, julia and a failed kill attempt on Scyther/Mac).

You should probably look for who would make such a nightkill. It is probably someone whk respects Jack and it's possible it could mean the existence of a wolf within the core of you/Alison/Mac/maybe Boq.

I feel like I've spent a lot of my time today trying to figure out this nightkill.

Mac seems to be blatantly misrepresenting Alison's posts. It's almost like he knows he's straight making things up. Prob my biggest drawback is that I feel like Jack is fairly good at reading Mac and he ended townreading him.

I still think Alison is town and I feel like she's only being resolved for yesterday's wagons.

I suspected you last night at some point though. Your EOD seemed all over the place. I'm debating giving you a tad more time to find some wolf so I can clear you if you're town.

[staypositivefriend]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

i mean, what incentive does lily have to NOT listen to you in a world where she's a wolf and you're town? if she's mafia then she has the perfect excuse to park her vote on falcon and not look responsible for him dying, since you directly told her to. why would she bother making a last second vanity vote? what does she gain from doing that?

it was unstrategic in a way that probably means she's playing from an uninformed perspective, and i actually think lily is becoming one of my most confident townreads in general

would've tied the Lynch, lily would've been policy lynched but that's okay because she's been suspected and we'd be forced to spend 3 lynches going lily/falcon/Alison where there's 1 wolf for 4 NK's
I hard disagree with a lily TR, she'd sheep me in every town scenario unless she had someone else telling her what to do (saying falcon was obv town at EOD imo was tmo (lily's actual messages contradict this but I don't care))
I do think lily/Alison have a difference check if and only if Alison flips scum
but more to the point I believe that town lily always follows me there

but lily choosing to park on a vanity wagon didn't tie the chop, right? or if it did tie the chop, it was mitigated so quickly that there was no realistic possibility that lily thought that switching off was going to force a tie between the wagon wagons

i don't really agree that lily would always follow you if she was town bcuz i have no idea what your dynamic is like and i care more about whether lily's play had strategic intent, which as far as i can tell, it did not