King of the Hill Mafia

[Alison]

Alison/Mac/SPF contains 1-2 wolves

aro/Boq/Neon/Porscha contains the other 1-2 wolve

Guessing Lily, Lucy, NANOOK, Rondo and Sean are all just town. If not then gg.

Why are you clearing Rondo? What is even the basis for these reads?

I feel like he's being too reckless to be wolf. Also he prob looks good if you flip wolf.

Yes, because Rondo's recklessness is alignment indicative as opposed to a part of his natural personality.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Alison probably just trying to spew lilypetal town right now.

please explain

[Creature]

Alison/Mac/SPF contains 1-2 wolves

aro/Boq/Neon/Porscha contains the other 1-2 wolve

Guessing Lily, Lucy, NANOOK, Rondo and Sean are all just town. If not then gg.

Why are you clearing Rondo? What is even the basis for these reads?

I feel like he's being too reckless to be wolf. Also he prob looks good if you flip wolf.

Yes, because Rondo's recklessness is alignment indicative as opposed to a part of his natural personality.

I dunno. I feel like he cared a lot more in the game he was wolf.

[MacDougall]

Maybe I'm bias because I'm me, but after 54 pages of solving and me bleeding out my eyes, it sure seems like

"mac is mafia if alison is town"

is the sort of read that a wolf that has nothing rational to cling to would make

[Alison]

I dont disagree if Alison flips town I am doing a 720 on Mac

Yes, because if I flip town you will kill one of my top townreads at the behest of one of my top scumreads.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Alison/Mac/SPF contains 1-2 wolves

aro/Boq/Neon/Porscha contains the other 1-2 wolve

Guessing Lily, Lucy, NANOOK, Rondo and Sean are all just town. If not then gg.

Why are you clearing Rondo? What is even the basis for these reads?

I feel like he's being too reckless to be wolf. Also he prob looks good if you flip wolf.

Yes, because Rondo's recklessness is alignment indicative as opposed to a part of his natural personality.

I didnt know you cared <3

[RondoDimBuckle]

I dont disagree if Alison flips town I am doing a 720 on Mac

Yes, because if I flip town you will kill one of my top townreads at the behest of one of my top scumreads.

Well, that is a fair point. I am still catching up with the game so I will take that one on the chin

[MacDougall]

Alison probably just trying to spew lilypetal town right now.

please explain

I was tunneled on Alison and she was pushing Lilypetal. Not really much more to it than that.

[Creature]

I dont disagree if Alison flips town I am doing a 720 on Mac

Yes, because if I flip town you will kill one of my top townreads at the behest of one of my top scumreads.

What if I flip town though? What if Mac is still alive day 4 after pushing three mislynches in the first three days?

[RondoDimBuckle]

POE

Alison
Creature
Lilypetal
Seanzie

I'm taking a very long break from this game. I didn't want to get drawn into playing this way and didn't even want to fucken play it in the first place.

This is your true POE Still? Why bring up Policy lynching me?

[MacDougall]

Maybe I'm bias because I'm me, but after 54 pages of solving and me bleeding out my eyes, it sure seems like

"mac is mafia if alison is town"

is the sort of read that a wolf that has nothing rational to cling to would make

Notwithstanding that this basically just lends the assumption that I'm solely responsible for orchestrating the entire gamestate.

I'm to blame for Creature going over when SPF would also be responsible for that. When Creature has been tunneling Mac to death for terrible reasons.

Just like I was to blame for Falcon going over when SPF and many others including Creature himself voted on that wagon. And Creature was as responsible as I was to begin with for pushing Falcon, with far less logical reasoning. When Falcon was tunneling Mac to death for terrible reasons.

And I'd be to blame for Alison going over when Alison had 6 other players pushing her on day 1 not named Mac.

The idea that wolves kill me to lock my legacy in place makes sense sometimes. Killing me night 1 actually makes it harder to get Alison over day 2 than leaving me alive though. So your argument that I'm wolfy if Alison is town because I'm not killed night 1, because if I was town mafia would have killed me to make it easier to chop Alison, is illogical in a very basic way. And you are hinging your entire game around illogical reads like this.

[RondoDimBuckle]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

[robyn]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

threesomes r pro town

[RondoDimBuckle]

Maybe I'm bias because I'm me, but after 54 pages of solving and me bleeding out my eyes, it sure seems like

"mac is mafia if alison is town"

is the sort of read that a wolf that has nothing rational to cling to would make

Notwithstanding that this basically just lends the assumption that I'm solely responsible for orchestrating the entire gamestate.

I'm to blame for Creature going over when SPF would also be responsible for that. When Creature has been tunneling Mac to death for terrible reasons.

Just like I was to blame for Falcon going over when SPF and many others including Creature himself voted on that wagon. And Creature was as responsible as I was to begin with for pushing Falcon, with far less logical reasoning. When Falcon was tunneling Mac to death for terrible reasons.

And I'd be to blame for Alison going over when Alison had 6 other players pushing her on day 1 not named Mac.

The idea that wolves kill me to lock my legacy in place makes sense sometimes. Killing me night 1 actually makes it harder to get Alison over day 2 than leaving me alive though. So your argument that I'm wolfy if Alison is town because I'm not killed night 1, because if I was town mafia would have killed me to make it easier to chop Alison, is illogical in a very basic way. And you are hinging your entire game around illogical reads like this.

who is this post for? Your quote makes no sense if you are responding to someone in thread right now, why not quote them?

[RondoDimBuckle]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

threesomes r pro town

im straight

[RondoDimBuckle]

can you people post reads lists
I want a towncore

My reads are as follows

People I think probably drink tea

Neon
Mac
Porscha

People who might like tea

Lily
Lucy

People who are probably not very invested in the tea reads

Aro
SPF
Boq

People who might not like tea

Sparkles

People who probably hate tea

Nanook
Creature
Alison


Anyone I forgot is not memorable sorry

why nanook in poe? Just because you dont like his playstyle or is there something there I have missed?

[RondoDimBuckle]

idk why I'm being associated with Porscha. I've stated multiple times near the end of the day that I preferred voting Porscha over falcon. I moved to falcon when Porscha was no longer viable and I wanted to both save Alison and prevent a tie.

You could have stayed on Porscha and drummed up more support and protected falcon, I bet if I read back that didnt happen. Only you can save your town reads. So linking you and Porcha isnt terrible imho

[robyn]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

threesomes r pro town

im straight

u weren't included

[RondoDimBuckle]

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Alright if you all think Porscha is wolf.

Saying I am most likely her partner feels like pretty random though.

This just reads as frustration. Not voting Porcha because they think they are wolf but because we think they are wolf. Anti-town

[RondoDimBuckle]

If I am wrong on creature I am going to look so bad

[Creature]

If I am wrong on creature I am going to look so bad

I don't think you're the wolf pushing me.

[Creature]

The wolfteam is prob gonna be something like arogame123 + Boquise + Neon but I doubt we ever win.

[RondoDimBuckle]

I'll prob ignore Alison/Mac rn. I can kinda relate to Alison saying Mac wouldn't use an OGI read on her as wolf. Still not feeling Alison is a wolf here, although her solve of Porscha + me + Lily/Rondo doesn't make a single sense.

Therefore we should prob look for wolves here:

Boquise
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Porscha
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie
staypositivefriend

So taking me out for obvious reasons:

Creatyres POE:
Boquise
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Porscha
Seanzie
staypositivefriend

Macs POE at this point in time:
Alison
Creature
Lilypetal
Seanzie

Talk about Seanzie if you could both of you?
How is he in POE?

Spoiler: show

@MacDougall

[staypositivefriend]

mac are you still confident that creature/seanzie cant be teamed?

[robyn]

there should be a Balkans mafia where the flavor is just names of the Balkan countries

[RondoDimBuckle]

there should be a Balkans mafia where the flavor is just names of the Balkan countries

be the change you want to see in the world

[robyn]

there should be a Balkans mafia where the flavor is just names of the Balkan countries

then mafia is just Turkey, Ottoman Empire, and the Byzantine Empire

[RondoDimBuckle]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

in the nicest way possible, who cares about what you said to her? if you told me to do something i probably wouldn't listen either lmfao. why are you acting like lily's own decision making is intentionally malicious towards you?

That is my vibe as well. Lucy just wants people to vote with her and has 0 shame demanding they do and gets upset when people ignore her

[MacDougall]

mac are you still confident that creature/seanzie cant be teamed?

Not if you think I shouldn't be.

[robyn]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

in the nicest way possible, who cares about what you said to her? if you told me to do something i probably wouldn't listen either lmfao. why are you acting like lily's own decision making is intentionally malicious towards you?

That is my vibe as well. Lucy just wants people to vote with her and has 0 shame demanding they do and gets upset when people ignore her

you followed me and almost lost the game for your faction lol

[RondoDimBuckle]

i think part of the problem with this game is that i'm struggling to establish a foundation of people that i trust, and all of my thoughts more disjointed than they usually are

i think that mac is blatant town and the way he has played over the last ~2 hours or so cement that fact. i don't think his push on alison comes out in the specific way that it has (or with the level of conviction that it has) in a world where he's mafia

i'm struggling to come to alison being a wolf for a couple of reasons:

1. if alison is mafia, who reasonably has partner equity with her? the momentum against her yesterday came almost exclusively from a pool of people that i perceive as likely containing a high number of wolves, and most of these were players were widely POE'd yesterday as well (ie: Nanook, Neon, Porscha,, Seanzie,, RondoDimBuckle all had their votes on alison toward the end of the day and were among the earliest to push against her)

so, in a world where the wolves are being correctly widely POE'd by the rest of the game and are in an unstable thread position, why on earth would they decide to hardbus alison? what would they gain from bussing one of the strongest players in the game who could easily endgame as a wolf? what tangible benefit would they get from it?

the alternative is that alison actually is mafia and her partners voted to protect her on d1, but this would require that:

A. my view of the game is upside down and there are multiple wolves contained within like, (mac, lily, lucy, aro), etc

B. the wolves were willing to go hard to protect alison on d1 with the full awareness that they would look bad in a world where she inevitably flipped W

this doesn't seem like a risk that most wolf teams would be willing to take, and i actually suspect that alison is the type of player who would ASK to be bussed in the position she was in on d1, but i don't see any viable bussers for her that wouldn't have been stupidly suicidal/playing against the win condition of their team to try to bury her on d1

2. i just don't find her posts that wolfy. maybe this is a skill issue on my part, and maybe my mind will change once i read mac's posts about alison more thoroughly, but i just don't! she is much more assertive and forceful with her reads than she was in the spec chat inviational, in which she was extremely passive and barely made moves to influence the threadstate. she is much more naturally suspicious of me even though she would almost want to pocket me in a world where she's a wolf and i'm incorrectly defending her. and in general, i don't find the reasons i've seen to scumread her (outside of some of mac's points) to be compelling or good.....at all

so yeah idk, im trying my best to conceptualize analison wolf world but i can't really shake the feeling that she's more likely to be town than not. there have been multiple times in recent memory where i had a correct read and the entire gamestate was telling me i was wrong and i ended up being right anyway - i don't really want to doubt my instincts even though i'm aware that i'm creating quite the hole for myself in a world where alison is W

porscha is still a wide target of suspicion among most people here, but i am similarly struggling to grasp what the case on her is. i agree that some of her posts in early d1 felt fake and like they came from a wolf that is going through the motions, but i think she has significantly improved from the middle of d1- nward, even if i'm not confident about her being town. i think that i need a specific case against porscha in order for me to get to a world where she's a wolf, because as of now i would describe her posts as being: "broadly fine"

i want to write a paragraph for every player here but im losing energy so im just gonna post it

guess you would need to possibly consider that some of those players aren't wolves?

perhaps that is not the world we are in?

out of these players listed specifically, I am not against lucy or aro possibly being wolves. I TR mac and lily.

do you find alison's gameplay to be difficult to find between her alignments? she is a logical argument based player - this leads to more "objective" and "logical" conclusions that may be hard to differentiate between alignment play. Are you basing your alison read on her actual posts, or on meta from the last game you mentioned where she wolfed? A combination maybe?

why does everybody always say this lol. wolves can't pocket everyone...

which ones?

Which world are we win?color]

Why do you wolf read them and town read the others?

[RondoDimBuckle]

ok its dnd time, see you in 12 hours or less or your lynch is free

[robyn]

I got pissed because it was objectively anti town for lily to not follow me

[staypositivefriend]

mac are you still confident that creature/seanzie cant be teamed?

Not if you think I shouldn't be.

well i'm not confident that they are, i just find both of them individually wolfy and am struggling to find any compelling reasons to dissociate them

[Seanzie]

D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

Strange way of saying "if Alison is town" at the bottom.

I think creature man spewed Alison town, in the message he contradicted himself in he was always doing it in a town!Alison world

You're making spews sound as much as a joke as "wolfslips" are today.

Eh, this is a bad post.

[Seanzie]

SPF, while I have you here, before I go to bed, what's ur current perspective with towns and poe?

with towns I am at Mac, you, and Boq

I am starting to feel good about Nanook and still have some town leanings on Creature from day 1.

Can you talk to me about Seanzie's spot? I remember I had him town leaning day 1, but if his continued push remains on Boq, it feels kind of bad.

So I wanted ur takes.

i think that mac, lilypetal, boq, and you are all probably town. i'm starting to townlean porscha after her posts over the last page. i do not currently townread creatue or nanook and i'd like you to talk about your reads on both of whem please.

seanzie had a series of very villagery posts toward the beginning of the game, and his posts have had diminishing returns since then. he has been one of the players most responsible for creating momentum against boq, and i think this makes seanzie look worse in a world where boq id town (which i am leaning on being the case). seanzie echoed the likely incorrect scumread on lilypetal early in the game as well. seanzie pushed on jack, who was town, and pushed on you, who i think is probably town as well. he also silently switched his vote to alison to "keep things spicy" which i think looks awkward and out of place even in a world where alison is a wolf. he has also spent a great deal of time defending creature, which looks worse in a world where creature is wolf (which i am currently exploring as a possibility)

i think seanzie fits the archetype of a slot that is going under the radar and pushing on as many villagers as he possibly can. most of his posts seem to lack any clear solving intent and his reads largely feel like they're being pulled out of a magical hat

this is way more words than i intended to write when i meant to be asleep like an hour ago. if you want any more details from me then you're going to have to wait until tomorrow

It is a pretty nice magical hat I've got, isn't it?

[Seanzie]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

[robyn]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

town/town
town/town
this is game 3

[Seanzie]

Alison/Mac/SPF contains 1-2 wolves

aro/Boq/Neon/Porscha contains the other 1-2 wolve

Guessing Lily, Lucy, NANOOK, Rondo and Sean are all just town. If not then gg.

Where did your earlier suspicion of me go? I have gotten objectively worse since then, not better.

[Seanzie]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

Pot Kettle

Are you doing post count pokes at this point? Are you caught up?

[Seanzie]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

town/town
town/town
this is game 3

@staypositivefriend You're noticing a difference in Lucy's play from when they were town... but you're town reading it? Talk me through that.

[Seanzie]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

town/town
town/town
this is game 3

Did you ever complete your MAF 301 assignment? It is past due at this point, so I'm deducting 10% from your grade.

[robyn]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

town/town
town/town
this is game 3

Did you ever complete your MAF 301 assignment? It is past due at this point, so I'm deducting 10% from your grade.

I decided to not answer because you didn't answer me

[Seanzie]

Also, I think it's time to take a leap of faith and do a BUSSY!

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Boq, I know you said this was a good idea in wolf chat, but I don't think I'll actually get a lot of towncred for this. I'm trusting your judgement though.

[Seanzie]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

town/town
town/town
this is game 3

Did you ever complete your MAF 301 assignment? It is past due at this point, so I'm deducting 10% from your grade.

I decided to not answer because you didn't answer me

Yeah, I reserve the right to not answer non-game-related personal questions. You can reserve the right to not answer game-related questions too, we can all play how we want, but... I'mma say the situations are not comparable.

[robyn]

@Seanzie what area of math do u study and are you in industry or academia

I study a subbranch of game theory known as mafia theory.

[VOTE: Lucy] aubergine

I'll give you an A in MAF 207 - Introduction to Mountainous if correctly identify why I voted for you.

also I didn't have an answer for why u voted me

[Seanzie]

@Seanzie what area of math do u study and are you in industry or academia

I study a subbranch of game theory known as mafia theory.

[VOTE: Lucy] aubergine

I'll give you an A in MAF 207 - Introduction to Mountainous if correctly identify why I voted for you.

also I didn't have an answer for why u voted me

You seem more interested in buddying me than solving me.

[staypositivefriend]

bad read but lucy wanting credit for coming to an alison V creature W world first is towny maybe lol

can you elaborate on why you have trouble reading me

i'm usually quite good at identifying when someone has a towny progression and when someone is putting in genuine effort into solving the ppl around them - one of the main ways that i solve games like this is just going through ISOs and going through individual progressions until i notice a pattern or find something that sticks out to me

you often play in a deliberately ambiguous way where it is difficult to track where your head is at in the moment or how you are getting from point A to point B, which makes it difficult for me to judge whether your reads are coming from an authentic place. i think this is probably the most clearly ive seen you express your view of the game in any of the 3 games ive played with you so far

What was your/Lucy's alignments in those three games?

town/town
town/town
this is game 3

@staypositivefriend You're noticing a difference in Lucy's play from when they were town... but you're town reading it? Talk me through that.

i don't consider the difference in lucy's play to be alignment indicative for her in either direction, because she made it clear at the beginning of this game that she is going to attempt to communicate her reads more clearly and focus on communication, and i believe she would attempt to do this as either alignment

i also think it's normal for players who are relatively new to mafia to have their playstyles change/develop a lot over the course of several games

[staypositivefriend]

there's a chance that i won't be online tomorrow much at all, so if anyone wants to urgently discuss anything with me then i would recommend doing it now

[robyn]

@Seanzie what area of math do u study and are you in industry or academia

I study a subbranch of game theory known as mafia theory.

[VOTE: Lucy] aubergine

I'll give you an A in MAF 207 - Introduction to Mountainous if correctly identify why I voted for you.

also I didn't have an answer for why u voted me

You seem more interested in buddying me than solving me.

I didn't want any bad blood between us
and I was gonna wait to solve you because it's not like you'll effect the game state that much which allows me to ignore you
furthermore Mac called you town iirc