King of the Hill Mafia

[Seanzie]

Also like Aro made a post about actually having read the games I posted, and Mac made a post about how that didn't sit with other things...

I thought about responding but I was trying to catch up so I didn't. Since it is back in discussion though, I specificallu poked Aro to ask if they had read the games of mine they asked for (light implication of a busy bee), so I don't think it is that strange that they would have, in response to me, done a dive into my games even if they usually wouldn't do a lot of ISOing.

yea, I was somewhat busy yesterday and I did read up on your games a bit during the night and explained the meta/things I saw from ur town and mafia games.

I disagreed with SPF's initial feelings that u would be "powerwolfing" since when I checked ur mafia games, you didn't come off as a powerwolfer to me and more of a laid back mafia person.

What's Mac's issue here exactly? Do you agree with the summary/meta I was describing about your play?

Mac's issue is a valid one; you shrugged off catchup work in a claim that you want to play in the moment, and this is in direct contrast to you having spent time reading my games.

If you have time to skim my games, you have time to catch up. Reasonable enough.

I'd like to know more about where I was condescending this game. I don't think I was.

Wait, first of all, I was busy irl and was at work lol. And so I only had some time to chat with people and discuss real time rather than do catch up in the thread only to not contribute any of my thoughts to the thread. I am literally working 9-5 M-F and don't have the luxury to catch up until night time like I am rn. So that's #1. #2, I read and skimmed ur games during the night phase during my night time. I am in PST fyi.

I skimmed ur games during the night time and not when I was in the thread. So when I come into the thread for a bit during work, I can't afford to catch up with the limited time I have and would rather real time with people to spew my thoughts like I was doing.

I don't see how me reading your games during the night phase at night time when I have time versus me playing/realtime during my work hours is a contrast. I can do both at different times which I did.

And, I guess I am a bit loose with words, but when I mean condescending, I mean more so egging on, kinda like what u were doing in EoD with ur tone when u went "Oooh yes, vote me for town cred" or something like that. I can't remember the specific game, but I can try to peruse through that large list to pull it out again if you'd like lol

How worried are you about your current thread positioning?

Also, since you're offering, yeah, can you pull that? I'd like to see past me compared to current me.

Uhhh, idrc about my thread positioning tbh. I mean it's nice to be town read and I can be put in a position where I can comfortably form a town core and push who I believe are wolves without having to defend myself 24/7 as I was having to do in my champs games lol.

And yea, I'll do it once I finish this whole catch up and what not.

While I have you here, what's ur current game state looking like?

Gamestate? Yeah, I don't have one of those.

[arogame123]

Also like Aro made a post about actually having read the games I posted, and Mac made a post about how that didn't sit with other things...

I thought about responding but I was trying to catch up so I didn't. Since it is back in discussion though, I specificallu poked Aro to ask if they had read the games of mine they asked for (light implication of a busy bee), so I don't think it is that strange that they would have, in response to me, done a dive into my games even if they usually wouldn't do a lot of ISOing.

yea, I was somewhat busy yesterday and I did read up on your games a bit during the night and explained the meta/things I saw from ur town and mafia games.

I disagreed with SPF's initial feelings that u would be "powerwolfing" since when I checked ur mafia games, you didn't come off as a powerwolfer to me and more of a laid back mafia person.

What's Mac's issue here exactly? Do you agree with the summary/meta I was describing about your play?

Mac's issue is a valid one; you shrugged off catchup work in a claim that you want to play in the moment, and this is in direct contrast to you having spent time reading my games.

If you have time to skim my games, you have time to catch up. Reasonable enough.

I'd like to know more about where I was condescending this game. I don't think I was.

Wait, first of all, I was busy irl and was at work lol. And so I only had some time to chat with people and discuss real time rather than do catch up in the thread only to not contribute any of my thoughts to the thread. I am literally working 9-5 M-F and don't have the luxury to catch up until night time like I am rn. So that's #1. #2, I read and skimmed ur games during the night phase during my night time. I am in PST fyi.

I skimmed ur games during the night time and not when I was in the thread. So when I come into the thread for a bit during work, I can't afford to catch up with the limited time I have and would rather real time with people to spew my thoughts like I was doing.

I don't see how me reading your games during the night phase at night time when I have time versus me playing/realtime during my work hours is a contrast. I can do both at different times which I did.

And, I guess I am a bit loose with words, but when I mean condescending, I mean more so egging on, kinda like what u were doing in EoD with ur tone when u went "Oooh yes, vote me for town cred" or something like that. I can't remember the specific game, but I can try to peruse through that large list to pull it out again if you'd like lol

How worried are you about your current thread positioning?

Also, since you're offering, yeah, can you pull that? I'd like to see past me compared to current me.

Uhhh, idrc about my thread positioning tbh. I mean it's nice to be town read and I can be put in a position where I can comfortably form a town core and push who I believe are wolves without having to defend myself 24/7 as I was having to do in my champs games lol.

And yea, I'll do it once I finish this whole catch up and what not.

While I have you here, what's ur current game state looking like?

You feel panicky...

lol

[arogame123]

Also like Aro made a post about actually having read the games I posted, and Mac made a post about how that didn't sit with other things...

I thought about responding but I was trying to catch up so I didn't. Since it is back in discussion though, I specificallu poked Aro to ask if they had read the games of mine they asked for (light implication of a busy bee), so I don't think it is that strange that they would have, in response to me, done a dive into my games even if they usually wouldn't do a lot of ISOing.

yea, I was somewhat busy yesterday and I did read up on your games a bit during the night and explained the meta/things I saw from ur town and mafia games.

I disagreed with SPF's initial feelings that u would be "powerwolfing" since when I checked ur mafia games, you didn't come off as a powerwolfer to me and more of a laid back mafia person.

What's Mac's issue here exactly? Do you agree with the summary/meta I was describing about your play?

Mac's issue is a valid one; you shrugged off catchup work in a claim that you want to play in the moment, and this is in direct contrast to you having spent time reading my games.

If you have time to skim my games, you have time to catch up. Reasonable enough.

I'd like to know more about where I was condescending this game. I don't think I was.

Wait, first of all, I was busy irl and was at work lol. And so I only had some time to chat with people and discuss real time rather than do catch up in the thread only to not contribute any of my thoughts to the thread. I am literally working 9-5 M-F and don't have the luxury to catch up until night time like I am rn. So that's #1. #2, I read and skimmed ur games during the night phase during my night time. I am in PST fyi.

I skimmed ur games during the night time and not when I was in the thread. So when I come into the thread for a bit during work, I can't afford to catch up with the limited time I have and would rather real time with people to spew my thoughts like I was doing.

I don't see how me reading your games during the night phase at night time when I have time versus me playing/realtime during my work hours is a contrast. I can do both at different times which I did.

And, I guess I am a bit loose with words, but when I mean condescending, I mean more so egging on, kinda like what u were doing in EoD with ur tone when u went "Oooh yes, vote me for town cred" or something like that. I can't remember the specific game, but I can try to peruse through that large list to pull it out again if you'd like lol

How worried are you about your current thread positioning?

Also, since you're offering, yeah, can you pull that? I'd like to see past me compared to current me.

Uhhh, idrc about my thread positioning tbh. I mean it's nice to be town read and I can be put in a position where I can comfortably form a town core and push who I believe are wolves without having to defend myself 24/7 as I was having to do in my champs games lol.

And yea, I'll do it once I finish this whole catch up and what not.

While I have you here, what's ur current game state looking like?

Gamestate? Yeah, I don't have one of those.

lol, well I see you are voting with me on Alison.

[MacDougall]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

there are so many things that i hate about this post but i will refrain from choosing violence today and go do something else instead

I do townread you though. I'm only gonna even remotely close to tinfoil you if both Creature/Alison die, both flip mafia and you're alive and it's lylo (and I won't be there so it's kinda just here as an "i warned you" message, in that event).

I don't think it's an unreasonable thought and would require me to have nailed both the other wolves first which let's be honest is probably unlikely.

Also you think Alison is town anyway right so you have little to worry about.

[MacDougall]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

I can't wait until I get an opportunity to snow you. (actually... I can... I don't think I'd wolf well if I had as much time as I had for this game... but if I had the time... and opportunity... and the will... and the way...). Either way, your townread of me is generous, to say the least.

Well see here's the problem. Your meta is such that you are townie to me when you give no fucks, have clear lack of TMI and hard tinfoil me all game. You and I both know this shit is what gets you killed. So if you acted outside said parameters I'd be suspicious of you and probably get you killed, and whenever you play this way you get mischopped at some point so me being right about you, aka townreading you for being scummy, isn't ever gonna bite me lol.

[Seanzie]

yea, I was somewhat busy yesterday and I did read up on your games a bit during the night and explained the meta/things I saw from ur town and mafia games.

I disagreed with SPF's initial feelings that u would be "powerwolfing" since when I checked ur mafia games, you didn't come off as a powerwolfer to me and more of a laid back mafia person.

What's Mac's issue here exactly? Do you agree with the summary/meta I was describing about your play?

Mac's issue is a valid one; you shrugged off catchup work in a claim that you want to play in the moment, and this is in direct contrast to you having spent time reading my games.

If you have time to skim my games, you have time to catch up. Reasonable enough.

I'd like to know more about where I was condescending this game. I don't think I was.

Wait, first of all, I was busy irl and was at work lol. And so I only had some time to chat with people and discuss real time rather than do catch up in the thread only to not contribute any of my thoughts to the thread. I am literally working 9-5 M-F and don't have the luxury to catch up until night time like I am rn. So that's #1. #2, I read and skimmed ur games during the night phase during my night time. I am in PST fyi.

I skimmed ur games during the night time and not when I was in the thread. So when I come into the thread for a bit during work, I can't afford to catch up with the limited time I have and would rather real time with people to spew my thoughts like I was doing.

I don't see how me reading your games during the night phase at night time when I have time versus me playing/realtime during my work hours is a contrast. I can do both at different times which I did.

And, I guess I am a bit loose with words, but when I mean condescending, I mean more so egging on, kinda like what u were doing in EoD with ur tone when u went "Oooh yes, vote me for town cred" or something like that. I can't remember the specific game, but I can try to peruse through that large list to pull it out again if you'd like lol

How worried are you about your current thread positioning?

Also, since you're offering, yeah, can you pull that? I'd like to see past me compared to current me.

Uhhh, idrc about my thread positioning tbh. I mean it's nice to be town read and I can be put in a position where I can comfortably form a town core and push who I believe are wolves without having to defend myself 24/7 as I was having to do in my champs games lol.

And yea, I'll do it once I finish this whole catch up and what not.

While I have you here, what's ur current game state looking like?

You feel panicky...

lol

Lol indeed. I defended you from Mac, but then explained to you how Mac's accusation could have come from town. Instead of realizing I was trying to talk about how Mac's thoughts were town-compatible, you launched into self-defense, completely missing the tone of the situation.

Can you provide some wolf and town games for me to paruse? I need to see if this sort of behavior is common for town!you, because it does seem very panicky.

[MacDougall]

D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

I will say, I was just realtiming a bit while catching up, and if Mac does push and sr me for the realtime versus when I read content because of my worklife and when I am able to play the game properly, I will keep this in mind.

I think I am a bit frustrated with that, but in contrast, I look at everything else he has done and his conversation with Alison and his tone and aggresiveness is pretty townie rom my perpsective and matches with the Mac town meta from the mash game I recently played with him. Additionally, the way he was pushing on Alison with some of the evidence including "the discord thing" is something that I don't really see coming from a mafia tbh.

Explain to me how this is negatively alignment indicative enough for it to be points against me?

[arogame123]

i think creature is likely a wolf who needs the alison chop to go through and is panicking at the possibility of it not happening and him dying first

I kinda disagree with this, because he started the day off with sort of being against the Alison wagon and pushing onto Mac and now somewhat onto you. If he wanted the Alison chop, I am pretty sure he would park there beginning of the day, given he had a slight sr on Alison from the previous day.

[MacDougall]

i think creature is likely a wolf who needs the alison chop to go through and is panicking at the possibility of it not happening and him dying first

I kinda disagree with this, because he started the day off with sort of being against the Alison wagon and pushing onto Mac and now somewhat onto you. If he wanted the Alison chop, I am pretty sure he would park there beginning of the day, given he had a slight sr on Alison from the previous day.

I'm more with you. And SPF pushing that opinion, plus Alison and Creature both tinfoiling SPF is what's making me tinfoil that in the world where they are both mafia SPF is a third.

But I might also add that you talking like a robot like "I can see why you are suspicious of SPF because of the reason you have stated however if you factor in that SPF is this then that then logical query string = random 404 error file not found" is tilting the fuck out of me because it's coming across as though you are trying very hard to control what you are saying so that you are misconstrued which is much more inclined to come from someone afraid of being scumread than someone actually trying to solve the game.

You also haven't really come across like you have had a single confident read all game and I've vibed with really none of your independent solving.

So if you want to sus me go ahead cuz I've got you about fourth from the bottom of my readslist atm.

[Seanzie]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

I can't wait until I get an opportunity to snow you. (actually... I can... I don't think I'd wolf well if I had as much time as I had for this game... but if I had the time... and opportunity... and the will... and the way...). Either way, your townread of me is generous, to say the least.

Well see here's the problem. Your meta is such that you are townie to me when you give no fucks, have clear lack of TMI and hard tinfoil me all game. You and I both know this shit is what gets you killed. So if you acted outside said parameters I'd be suspicious of you and probably get you killed, and whenever you play this way you get mischopped at some point so me being right about you, aka townreading you for being scummy, isn't ever gonna bite me lol.

I townread you some games (eg ducktales), even though you did tinfoil me over it, and I almost never get mischopped.

[arogame123]

Mac's issue is a valid one; you shrugged off catchup work in a claim that you want to play in the moment, and this is in direct contrast to you having spent time reading my games.

If you have time to skim my games, you have time to catch up. Reasonable enough.

I'd like to know more about where I was condescending this game. I don't think I was.

Wait, first of all, I was busy irl and was at work lol. And so I only had some time to chat with people and discuss real time rather than do catch up in the thread only to not contribute any of my thoughts to the thread. I am literally working 9-5 M-F and don't have the luxury to catch up until night time like I am rn. So that's #1. #2, I read and skimmed ur games during the night phase during my night time. I am in PST fyi.

I skimmed ur games during the night time and not when I was in the thread. So when I come into the thread for a bit during work, I can't afford to catch up with the limited time I have and would rather real time with people to spew my thoughts like I was doing.

I don't see how me reading your games during the night phase at night time when I have time versus me playing/realtime during my work hours is a contrast. I can do both at different times which I did.

And, I guess I am a bit loose with words, but when I mean condescending, I mean more so egging on, kinda like what u were doing in EoD with ur tone when u went "Oooh yes, vote me for town cred" or something like that. I can't remember the specific game, but I can try to peruse through that large list to pull it out again if you'd like lol

How worried are you about your current thread positioning?

Also, since you're offering, yeah, can you pull that? I'd like to see past me compared to current me.

Uhhh, idrc about my thread positioning tbh. I mean it's nice to be town read and I can be put in a position where I can comfortably form a town core and push who I believe are wolves without having to defend myself 24/7 as I was having to do in my champs games lol.

And yea, I'll do it once I finish this whole catch up and what not.

While I have you here, what's ur current game state looking like?

You feel panicky...

lol

Lol indeed. I defended you from Mac, but then explained to you how Mac's accusation could have come from town. Instead of realizing I was trying to talk about how Mac's thoughts were town-compatible, you launched into self-defense, completely missing the tone of the situation.

Can you provide some wolf and town games for me to paruse? I need to see if this sort of behavior is common for town!you, because it does seem very panicky.

I was addressing Mac's accusation/issue that you posed to me and I addressed it. I already had Mac as town before the convo tho, but I was more so frustrated when I saw that Mac said I was trending down for that.

And sure, I can provide some town and mafia games. Gimme a sec to pull them up. All are from MU.

[Seanzie]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

I can't wait until I get an opportunity to snow you. (actually... I can... I don't think I'd wolf well if I had as much time as I had for this game... but if I had the time... and opportunity... and the will... and the way...). Either way, your townread of me is generous, to say the least.

Well see here's the problem. Your meta is such that you are townie to me when you give no fucks, have clear lack of TMI and hard tinfoil me all game. You and I both know this shit is what gets you killed. So if you acted outside said parameters I'd be suspicious of you and probably get you killed, and whenever you play this way you get mischopped at some point so me being right about you, aka townreading you for being scummy, isn't ever gonna bite me lol.

I townread you some games (eg ducktales), even though you did tinfoil me over it, and I almost never get mischopped.

Okay. I get D1'd sometimes, but that is almost always a bad flashwagon.

[MacDougall]

@staypositivefriend I don't think you need to get tilted out of the game or mad at me for the solve idea I presented, I've barely even blinked at you in this game and you were like entirely more tolerant of my pushing you in the spiritfarer game when I was practically baying for your blood for like 4 phases straight. In this game you're like my top town and I'm humouring the notion that you are maybe the deepwolf being spewed and I've said it once in a spoiler. Kinda weird overreaction from you of all people given me issuing reads like that should be something you're used to right now lol.

Points down!

[MacDougall]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

I can't wait until I get an opportunity to snow you. (actually... I can... I don't think I'd wolf well if I had as much time as I had for this game... but if I had the time... and opportunity... and the will... and the way...). Either way, your townread of me is generous, to say the least.

Well see here's the problem. Your meta is such that you are townie to me when you give no fucks, have clear lack of TMI and hard tinfoil me all game. You and I both know this shit is what gets you killed. So if you acted outside said parameters I'd be suspicious of you and probably get you killed, and whenever you play this way you get mischopped at some point so me being right about you, aka townreading you for being scummy, isn't ever gonna bite me lol.

I townread you some games (eg ducktales), even though you did tinfoil me over it, and I almost never get mischopped.

No more ego dick swinging about who is better at dealing with the other person please it's the most boring thing in all of mafia and I dread it every time i see your name in my rand.

[MacDougall]

Btw @Seanzie I also picked up the panicked vibe from Arogame when you abruptly prodded him.

[staypositivefriend]

okay, i'm finally caught up with the thread. i got a million pings while i was gone and i don't have time to individually answer each of them, but i will make a longer post shortly outlining my general view of the game/my current POE, and the specific strategy that we should follow to win the game even in the event where i'm wrong about everything and unintentionally wolfsiding

a couple of things to note first, though:

-i think the biggest developments from my catch-up is that my read on lucy went from null to townlean and my read on lily went from "townlean" to "almost 100% town". @MacDougall @arogame123 @lucy -i'm hard veto'ing any votes or pushes on lucy until LYLO at the very minimum, because i think she is the most blatantly town poster in the game so far barring mac, and there are specific tells that she did over the last few pages that i perceive as being very likely to be outside of her wolfrange (such as the way she reacted to alison asking her to chain her vote to lucy)

-as for lucy, my read on her existed in a nebelous uncertain state because i thought most of her posts were non-descript and not particularly alignment indicative, but she got a lot townier as soon as she started pushing on creature using his previous meta, and i would be mildly impressed if that catch is something that she would be able to pick up on as a wolf. if creature is a wolf then i'm tempted to say that it's probably lock clearing for her

@MacDougall - are you sure that seanzie/creature can't be W/W? if you're willing to bet the game on it, then i'll sheep you, but i was tinfoiling a world where they are partnered last night and i think it makes a reasonable amount of sense. seanzie has had a vested interest in shielding creature from pressure and creature has actively avoided pushing on seanzie, and i think a world where the two of them are wolves could make sense in a world where the wolves are powerwolfing and trying to push through a bad POE, especially if we live in a world where alison is town

@arogame123 - i have a major bone to pick with you about your read on lily, and i felt like you were almost purposefully going out of your way to misunderstand her on page 47. what is the wolf motivation for her choosing to vote outside of falcon and alison yesterday? what does she strategically gain from doing that as a wolf? i feel like you are characterizing her behavior as wolfy in the most surface level possible way without digging deeper into the intent, and your view on lily being so directly the opposite of mine is my biggest concern about you right now

I am assuming you meant you are hard vetoi'ng any kills against Lilly till Lylo?

Anyways, as far as my concerns with Lily were both the anti-town vote off wagon and her claim to sheep and then to vote off wagon, and then also if she had Falcon as obv town, I was wondering why she didn't attempt to save him.
Those were the initial problems/issues I had with Lily's EoD that I described in her posts, and I was not mischaracterizing her behavior.

In fact, I did acknowledge that in a V/V wagon world, Lily's vote to move off wagon wouldn't make as much sense, AND I even brought up my own Champs experience to double down on that fact that Liky's movement their with the wagons at EoD is unlikely esp in a V/V world.

SEcondly, I did attempt to empathize and understand where Lily was coming from. I realized that from her POV, she felt Falcon became obv town and was against Alison bc of the sheep from u and Mac, so she felt in a very off place and voted off wagons bc she didn't want Falcon to die and didn't want to vote Alison either. So those were the parts that I was like hmmm, ok, I guess I can see the movement with the vote there from Lily's perspective. Afterwards, I rose Lily a bit higher up from my POE and more into the nulls-ish category.

And if you are so confident in that read, I might likely sponge that read from you, because I don't think you would be so over confident about a read if you didn't believe she was town.

But I clearly stated the issues I had and clearly asked her as I was attempting to understand her viewpoint.

I think with Lucy, I moved her up to a slight tr because I think her case on Creature was pretty townie and demonstrated some of the inconsistencies with Creature's approach to today versus his prior. The way he treated Alison and how she was a wagon was a good catch from Lucy and I liked that from her.

Perhaps we can talk more about Seanzie, Creature, Nanook, Neon, and Porscha when you get on?

What do u think of Creature basically tinfoiling majority of his tr that he had yesterday after day 1?

right, but i felt that all of the specific points that you brought up against lily (ie: voting off wagon, not trying to save falcon) were questions that had obvious answers if you thought about them for more than a few seconds, and you hammering on the same points over and over made me worried you were trying to bury lily and make her look bad instead of attempting to solve her alignment

for example, how could lily have attempted to save falcon in the last 10 minutes of d1? the only two options from her point of view were falcon or alison, and she had a perfectly valid reason to not vote for alison (because i was basically trying to strongarm the game into not doing so), and parking her vote on a vanity wagon makes logical for her to do regardless of her alignment, even if it might be "anti-town" on a surface level

i think creature is mafia, but him tinfoiling the townread that he had for most of the game doesn't really bother me and seems typical of how creature plays as either alignment

[arogame123]

i think creature is likely a wolf who needs the alison chop to go through and is panicking at the possibility of it not happening and him dying first

I kinda disagree with this, because he started the day off with sort of being against the Alison wagon and pushing onto Mac and now somewhat onto you. If he wanted the Alison chop, I am pretty sure he would park there beginning of the day, given he had a slight sr on Alison from the previous day.

I'm more with you. And SPF pushing that opinion, plus Alison and Creature both tinfoiling SPF is what's making me tinfoil that in the world where they are both mafia SPF is a third.

But I might also add that you talking like a robot like "I can see why you are suspicious of SPF because of the reason you have stated however if you factor in that SPF is this then that then logical query string = random 404 error file not found" is tilting the fuck out of me because it's coming across as though you are trying very hard to control what you are saying so that you are misconstrued which is much more inclined to come from someone afraid of being scumread than someone actually trying to solve the game.

You also haven't really come across like you have had a single confident read all game and I've vibed with really none of your independent solving.

So if you want to sus me go ahead cuz I've got you about fourth from the bottom of my readslist atm.

Lol Mac, when did I say I sus you? It seems like you are bracing for me to sr you, when all I claimed was that I was frustrated that you would push me for the reasoning that Seanzie put out there. You seemed to have me at the top of your towncore which is an interesting twist for sure lol.

And you have played with me in mash before, so I am surprised that you are know just pointing out that you are tilted from my "robotic tone" lol. I attempt to empathize with players and that's my playstyle. I always look at both sides of the coin homie. I have mentioned this many times, but I am a towncore first type of guy, and from there I establish the POE and go there.

[MacDougall]

@staypositivefriend

Ignoring all the people in the middle

Who are your absolute most confident reads both ways? Who are you like "stay the fuck away this person is town" level townread in this game and who are you "POE need their blood" level reading?

For me it's like;

Don't touch level town = Lucy, SPF
Give me their blood = Creature, Arogame

Everyone else I wouldn't be entirely shocked one way or the other tbh.

[staypositivefriend]

also, yes, i still think that alison is town. if i'm wrong and wolfsiding by accident, then whatever, i can accept that. i think there is a high likeliehood that creature has spewed alison as town based on the way he has spoken about her throughout the last few pages, and i also do not see any self-preservation intent in the way that alison is attempting to play today. in fact, i've only seen her give up and admit defeat as a villager before, even though i'm sure it is something that is plausibly within her wolfrange

the only concern i have about alison is that she's pushing a POE (ie: me/porscha) that seems potentially wolfsided, but even then, i don't feel the wolf motivation behind her pushes and think it is mroe likely she is a villager with an upside down view of the game

I was gonna ask you SPF, I posted earlier that what Alison was doing reminded me of what she did in C v D. By chance, do you know if Alison has done this before as mafia?

Admittedly, the only other townie thing I saw from Alison was her approach to EoD1 where she wanted to kill her mafia read and try to take the wagon off Falcon despite Falcon sr her. And she only self-pressed till the very last moment. But other than that, I didn't like Alison's day 1 and how she became jovenile towards Neon after the initial sr only to put her in POE again, which from her perspective, I can understand. But it did remind me of what u were saying about Alison as mafia in the SCI game where Alison likes to be a bit more jovenile and friendly towards certain slots to appeal to them.

no i've literally only seen her give up in situations where she's town and decides that her dying is the best possible thing for the game. i've never seen her do it as mafia, even for wifom purposes, even though i'm sure it's within her wolfrange. i don't think the fact that she's offering to die is that towny within itself, but i think it looks towny in combination with the fact that alison has shown basically zero self-preservation intent or intent to stay alive for a good majority of today

[arogame123]

D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

I will say, I was just realtiming a bit while catching up, and if Mac does push and sr me for the realtime versus when I read content because of my worklife and when I am able to play the game properly, I will keep this in mind.

I think I am a bit frustrated with that, but in contrast, I look at everything else he has done and his conversation with Alison and his tone and aggresiveness is pretty townie rom my perpsective and matches with the Mac town meta from the mash game I recently played with him. Additionally, the way he was pushing on Alison with some of the evidence including "the discord thing" is something that I don't really see coming from a mafia tbh.

Explain to me how this is negatively alignment indicative enough for it to be points against me?

Because I explained how I read Seanzie's ISO's at a different time during the night and I was in the thread playing in real time when I was at work, and you expect me to catch up and reread when I don't have much time during the day as I do during the night, which does not feel like a legitimate reason to sr someone.

[MacDougall]

i think creature is likely a wolf who needs the alison chop to go through and is panicking at the possibility of it not happening and him dying first

I kinda disagree with this, because he started the day off with sort of being against the Alison wagon and pushing onto Mac and now somewhat onto you. If he wanted the Alison chop, I am pretty sure he would park there beginning of the day, given he had a slight sr on Alison from the previous day.

I'm more with you. And SPF pushing that opinion, plus Alison and Creature both tinfoiling SPF is what's making me tinfoil that in the world where they are both mafia SPF is a third.

But I might also add that you talking like a robot like "I can see why you are suspicious of SPF because of the reason you have stated however if you factor in that SPF is this then that then logical query string = random 404 error file not found" is tilting the fuck out of me because it's coming across as though you are trying very hard to control what you are saying so that you are misconstrued which is much more inclined to come from someone afraid of being scumread than someone actually trying to solve the game.

You also haven't really come across like you have had a single confident read all game and I've vibed with really none of your independent solving.

So if you want to sus me go ahead cuz I've got you about fourth from the bottom of my readslist atm.

Lol Mac, when did I say I sus you? It seems like you are bracing for me to sr you, when all I claimed was that I was frustrated that you would push me for the reasoning that Seanzie put out there. You seemed to have me at the top of your towncore which is an interesting twist for sure lol.

And you have played with me in mash before, so I am surprised that you are know just pointing out that you are tilted from my "robotic tone" lol. I attempt to empathize with players and that's my playstyle. I always look at both sides of the coin homie. I have mentioned this many times, but I am a towncore first type of guy, and from there I establish the POE and go there.

I asked you to explain how what I did is negatively alignment indicative for me and you haven't so points down. You just seemed to see an opportunity to float some sus on me for a terribad reason and I bet you can't even articulate why cuz it's bs.

Nice strawman, I'm not suspicious of the result you are either trying to, or are pretending to try to accomplish (towncore/empathy whatever), I am suspicious of the way you are posting.

You have gone from in my towncore to in my firm POE within your last 20 posts, that I had you as a townread before means fuck all but you sure do love clinging to non NAI reasons to prod people.

[arogame123]

mafia

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36562

town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36964

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35689

Enjoy! @Seanzie

[Porscha]

idk why I'm being associated with Porscha. I've stated multiple times near the end of the day that I preferred voting Porscha over falcon. I moved to falcon when Porscha was no longer viable and I wanted to both save Alison and prevent a tie.

You could have stayed on Porscha and drummed up more support and protected falcon, I bet if I read back that didnt happen. Only you can save your town reads. So linking you and Porcha isnt terrible imho

god creature is going to destroy this game for me this time eh

at least creature with a pulse has been sexier than the old creature i'm used to

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend I don't think you need to get tilted out of the game or mad at me for the solve idea I presented, I've barely even blinked at you in this game and you were like entirely more tolerant of my pushing you in the spiritfarer game when I was practically baying for your blood for like 4 phases straight. In this game you're like my top town and I'm humouring the notion that you are maybe the deepwolf being spewed and I've said it once in a spoiler. Kinda weird overreaction from you of all people given me issuing reads like that should be something you're used to right now lol.

Points down!

to be clear, you didn't tilt me out of the game, and i wasn't even that mad at you for the post you made. i just thought it was a bad read for obvious reasons to theorize that me/creature/alison could all be mafia together (because that would mean that i went out of my way to bury one of my wolf partners when my other wolf partner is already widely POE'd and destined to die pretty much regardless of what creature flips), and i decided not to engage and let you have your tinfoil because i'm used to it

i think you're seeing more emotion in the post than was actually there

[Seanzie]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

I can't wait until I get an opportunity to snow you. (actually... I can... I don't think I'd wolf well if I had as much time as I had for this game... but if I had the time... and opportunity... and the will... and the way...). Either way, your townread of me is generous, to say the least.

Well see here's the problem. Your meta is such that you are townie to me when you give no fucks, have clear lack of TMI and hard tinfoil me all game. You and I both know this shit is what gets you killed. So if you acted outside said parameters I'd be suspicious of you and probably get you killed, and whenever you play this way you get mischopped at some point so me being right about you, aka townreading you for being scummy, isn't ever gonna bite me lol.

I townread you some games (eg ducktales), even though you did tinfoil me over it, and I almost never get mischopped.

No more ego dick swinging about who is better at dealing with the other person please it's the most boring thing in all of mafia and I dread it every time i see your name in my rand.

I'm not egodicking in that way though. At least this game I'm not trying to purport I have some amazing read on you, all I'm doing is calling out you on an overly generous townread of me.

D1 I remember for a little while (maybe 30 mins) I felt the fire and I probably towned up then, and I don't even remember the content but I know it is townclearing for me, but aside from that I have done nothing clearing. I'm not egodicking. You're either egodicking or TMIing, but that's not what I'm doing, in calling you out for that.

[Seanzie]

mafia

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36562

town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36964

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35689

Enjoy! @Seanzie

How many games approx total do you have? (very rough estimates like <10 , 'bout 30, or over 9000, would suffice)

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend

Ignoring all the people in the middle

Who are your absolute most confident reads both ways? Who are you like "stay the fuck away this person is town" level townread in this game and who are you "POE need their blood" level reading?

For me it's like;

Don't touch level town = Lucy, SPF
Give me their blood = Creature, Arogame

Everyone else I wouldn't be entirely shocked one way or the other tbh.

my "don't tinfoil until LYLO tier" is lilypetal, you, and MAYBE lucy because i'm kind of doubtful that lucy would be able to reach the exact same worldview as me with the same type of reasoning at almost identical times in a world where she's a wolf, and because i think she's been playing townier in this dayphase alone than pretty much every single game i've seen from her combined. so you and lily for sure, lucy maybe

honestly, "murder immediately" territory is just creature. i was tunneled on a creature/seanzie/X world for a little while, with X probably being within like nanook/miss sparkles slot/neon, but now i think that creature/seanzie aren't super likely to be teamed, which makes me think the solve is ACTUALLY like creature + 2 partners in my POE, or 1 partner in my POE with an extra deep one that i'm misreading somewhere

do you have a post where you've outlined your specific issues with aro? i honestly still think he's town but out of respect for your read on him im considering the possibility that i'm clearing him too easily, even if it doesn't really feel right in my gut

[arogame123]

i think creature is likely a wolf who needs the alison chop to go through and is panicking at the possibility of it not happening and him dying first

I kinda disagree with this, because he started the day off with sort of being against the Alison wagon and pushing onto Mac and now somewhat onto you. If he wanted the Alison chop, I am pretty sure he would park there beginning of the day, given he had a slight sr on Alison from the previous day.

I'm more with you. And SPF pushing that opinion, plus Alison and Creature both tinfoiling SPF is what's making me tinfoil that in the world where they are both mafia SPF is a third.

But I might also add that you talking like a robot like "I can see why you are suspicious of SPF because of the reason you have stated however if you factor in that SPF is this then that then logical query string = random 404 error file not found" is tilting the fuck out of me because it's coming across as though you are trying very hard to control what you are saying so that you are misconstrued which is much more inclined to come from someone afraid of being scumread than someone actually trying to solve the game.

You also haven't really come across like you have had a single confident read all game and I've vibed with really none of your independent solving.

So if you want to sus me go ahead cuz I've got you about fourth from the bottom of my readslist atm.

Lol Mac, when did I say I sus you? It seems like you are bracing for me to sr you, when all I claimed was that I was frustrated that you would push me for the reasoning that Seanzie put out there. You seemed to have me at the top of your towncore which is an interesting twist for sure lol.

And you have played with me in mash before, so I am surprised that you are know just pointing out that you are tilted from my "robotic tone" lol. I attempt to empathize with players and that's my playstyle. I always look at both sides of the coin homie. I have mentioned this many times, but I am a towncore first type of guy, and from there I establish the POE and go there.

I asked you to explain how what I did is negatively alignment indicative for me and you haven't so points down. You just seemed to see an opportunity to float some sus on me for a terribad reason and I bet you can't even articulate why cuz it's bs.

Nice strawman, I'm not suspicious of the result you are either trying to, or are pretending to try to accomplish (towncore/empathy whatever), I am suspicious of the way you are posting.

You have gone from in my towncore to in my firm POE within your last 20 posts, that I had you as a townread before means fuck all but you sure do love clinging to non NAI reasons to prod people.

I just explained that you would be pushing me for bad reasons because you expect me to catch up/read when I read through people's ISO's when those occured at two different timelines. Not sure if I can make myself anymore clear.

You can be suspicious of the way I am posting, that's fine, you wouldn't be the first, and you can take a look at my other town games that I just posted for yourself.

As I said, I think you are town and if you moved me to POE because what I say doesn't suit what you want me to say then that's on you homie. I'll just continue to solve the way I have.

[arogame123]

mafia

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36562

town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36964

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35689

Enjoy! @Seanzie

How many games approx total do you have? (very rough estimates like <10 , 'bout 30, or over 9000, would suffice)

assuming turbos don't count, less than 5 lol. I didn't include the mashes, so it's just 3.

[MacDougall]

D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

I will say, I was just realtiming a bit while catching up, and if Mac does push and sr me for the realtime versus when I read content because of my worklife and when I am able to play the game properly, I will keep this in mind.

I think I am a bit frustrated with that, but in contrast, I look at everything else he has done and his conversation with Alison and his tone and aggresiveness is pretty townie rom my perpsective and matches with the Mac town meta from the mash game I recently played with him. Additionally, the way he was pushing on Alison with some of the evidence including "the discord thing" is something that I don't really see coming from a mafia tbh.

Explain to me how this is negatively alignment indicative enough for it to be points against me?

Because I explained how I read Seanzie's ISO's at a different time during the night and I was in the thread playing in real time when I was at work, and you expect me to catch up and reread when I don't have much time during the day as I do during the night, which does not feel like a legitimate reason to sr someone.

Explain how that doesn't feel legitimate to you?

Given you had not explained that you had done the Seanzie ISOs overnight, what's "illegitimate" about me thinking you're sus for saying you prefer to realtime, but had apparently gone to lengths to analyse another game?

If someone else made this read I wouldn't view it as illegitimate, I'd view it as genuinely worth raising and be very interested in the response. You've majorly failed the response. That you're trying to imply that it's not only not valuable, but somehow suspicious, is not good.

[MacDougall]

@staypositivefriend I don't think you need to get tilted out of the game or mad at me for the solve idea I presented, I've barely even blinked at you in this game and you were like entirely more tolerant of my pushing you in the spiritfarer game when I was practically baying for your blood for like 4 phases straight. In this game you're like my top town and I'm humouring the notion that you are maybe the deepwolf being spewed and I've said it once in a spoiler. Kinda weird overreaction from you of all people given me issuing reads like that should be something you're used to right now lol.

Points down!

to be clear, you didn't tilt me out of the game, and i wasn't even that mad at you for the post you made. i just thought it was a bad read for obvious reasons to theorize that me/creature/alison could all be mafia together (because that would mean that i went out of my way to bury one of my wolf partners when my other wolf partner is already widely POE'd and destined to die pretty much regardless of what creature flips), and i decided not to engage and let you have your tinfoil because i'm used to it

i think you're seeing more emotion in the post than was actually there

Lol I can only read the words as what they say. My apologies.

@staypositivefriend

Ignoring all the people in the middle

Who are your absolute most confident reads both ways? Who are you like "stay the fuck away this person is town" level townread in this game and who are you "POE need their blood" level reading?

For me it's like;

Don't touch level town = Lucy, SPF
Give me their blood = Creature, Arogame

Everyone else I wouldn't be entirely shocked one way or the other tbh.

my "don't tinfoil until LYLO tier" is lilypetal, you, and MAYBE lucy because i'm kind of doubtful that lucy would be able to reach the exact same worldview as me with the same type of reasoning at almost identical times in a world where she's a wolf, and because i think she's been playing townier in this dayphase alone than pretty much every single game i've seen from her combined. so you and lily for sure, lucy maybe

honestly, "murder immediately" territory is just creature. i was tunneled on a creature/seanzie/X world for a little while, with X probably being within like nanook/miss sparkles slot/neon, but now i think that creature/seanzie aren't super likely to be teamed, which makes me think the solve is ACTUALLY like creature + 2 partners in my POE, or 1 partner in my POE with an extra deep one that i'm misreading somewhere

do you have a post where you've outlined your specific issues with aro? i honestly still think he's town but out of respect for your read on him im considering the possibility that i'm clearing him too easily, even if it doesn't really feel right in my gut

It mostly has just emerged in realtime so you can just read the posts around you lol.

[Porscha]

i think part of the problem with this game is that i'm struggling to establish a foundation of people that i trust, and all of my thoughts more disjointed than they usually are

i think that mac is blatant town and the way he has played over the last ~2 hours or so cement that fact. i don't think his push on alison comes out in the specific way that it has (or with the level of conviction that it has) in a world where he's mafia

i'm struggling to come to alison being a wolf for a couple of reasons:

1. if alison is mafia, who reasonably has partner equity with her? the momentum against her yesterday came almost exclusively from a pool of people that i perceive as likely containing a high number of wolves, and most of these were players were widely POE'd yesterday as well (ie: Nanook, Neon, Porscha,, Seanzie,, RondoDimBuckle all had their votes on alison toward the end of the day and were among the earliest to push against her)

so, in a world where the wolves are being correctly widely POE'd by the rest of the game and are in an unstable thread position, why on earth would they decide to hardbus alison? what would they gain from bussing one of the strongest players in the game who could easily endgame as a wolf? what tangible benefit would they get from it?

the alternative is that alison actually is mafia and her partners voted to protect her on d1, but this would require that:

A. my view of the game is upside down and there are multiple wolves contained within like, (mac, lily, lucy, aro), etc

B. the wolves were willing to go hard to protect alison on d1 with the full awareness that they would look bad in a world where she inevitably flipped W

this doesn't seem like a risk that most wolf teams would be willing to take, and i actually suspect that alison is the type of player who would ASK to be bussed in the position she was in on d1, but i don't see any viable bussers for her that wouldn't have been stupidly suicidal/playing against the win condition of their team to try to bury her on d1

2. i just don't find her posts that wolfy. maybe this is a skill issue on my part, and maybe my mind will change once i read mac's posts about alison more thoroughly, but i just don't! she is much more assertive and forceful with her reads than she was in the spec chat inviational, in which she was extremely passive and barely made moves to influence the threadstate. she is much more naturally suspicious of me even though she would almost want to pocket me in a world where she's a wolf and i'm incorrectly defending her. and in general, i don't find the reasons i've seen to scumread her (outside of some of mac's points) to be compelling or good.....at all

so yeah idk, im trying my best to conceptualize analison wolf world but i can't really shake the feeling that she's more likely to be town than not. there have been multiple times in recent memory where i had a correct read and the entire gamestate was telling me i was wrong and i ended up being right anyway - i don't really want to doubt my instincts even though i'm aware that i'm creating quite the hole for myself in a world where alison is W

porscha is still a wide target of suspicion among most people here, but i am similarly struggling to grasp what the case on her is. i agree that some of her posts in early d1 felt fake and like they came from a wolf that is going through the motions, but i think she has significantly improved from the middle of d1- nward, even if i'm not confident about her being town. i think that i need a specific case against porscha in order for me to get to a world where she's a wolf, because as of now i would describe her posts as being: "broadly fine"

i want to write a paragraph for every player here but im losing energy so im just gonna post it

guess you would need to possibly consider that some of those players aren't wolves?

perhaps that is not the world we are in?

out of these players listed specifically, I am not against lucy or aro possibly being wolves. I TR mac and lily.

do you find alison's gameplay to be difficult to find between her alignments? she is a logical argument based player - this leads to more "objective" and "logical" conclusions that may be hard to differentiate between alignment play. Are you basing your alison read on her actual posts, or on meta from the last game you mentioned where she wolfed? A combination maybe?

why does everybody always say this lol. wolves can't pocket everyone...

which ones?

Which world are we win?color]

Why do you wolf read them and town read the others?

1) I think out of those listed, nook is most likely, neon possible, doubtful on sean

2) I don't know I just like asking people stupid questions about game state views to help ensure bases get covered

3) when I made the post, I have had mac town from his kerfluffle with alison earlier in the game. I think lily has towntold. I felt relatively null on lucy earlier but since her posts regarding the creature push, she comes off as more towny. I will watch her closely but she can be tl. I haven't particularly found something to sr her for. as for aro - I dont feel I can read him particularly well and I'm always worried he's wolfing in front of my very eyes. no particular sr for him at the time either. it was based on who I tr'd which just left the remainders but I would not say I am currently sr'ing both of them. curious to see both of their progressions tho

[arogame123]

D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

I will say, I was just realtiming a bit while catching up, and if Mac does push and sr me for the realtime versus when I read content because of my worklife and when I am able to play the game properly, I will keep this in mind.

I think I am a bit frustrated with that, but in contrast, I look at everything else he has done and his conversation with Alison and his tone and aggresiveness is pretty townie rom my perpsective and matches with the Mac town meta from the mash game I recently played with him. Additionally, the way he was pushing on Alison with some of the evidence including "the discord thing" is something that I don't really see coming from a mafia tbh.

Explain to me how this is negatively alignment indicative enough for it to be points against me?

Because I explained how I read Seanzie's ISO's at a different time during the night and I was in the thread playing in real time when I was at work, and you expect me to catch up and reread when I don't have much time during the day as I do during the night, which does not feel like a legitimate reason to sr someone.

Explain how that doesn't feel legitimate to you?

Given you had not explained that you had done the Seanzie ISOs overnight, what's "illegitimate" about me thinking you're sus for saying you prefer to realtime, but had apparently gone to lengths to analyse another game?

If someone else made this read I wouldn't view it as illegitimate, I'd view it as genuinely worth raising and be very interested in the response. You've majorly failed the response. That you're trying to imply that it's not only not valuable, but somehow suspicious, is not good.

Because I had mentioned that when I came into the thread that I was at work and that I didn't have as much time, so i could only realtime at the moment. I had mentioned that as well when I was in the thread that I was at work and don't have much time.

So you then pushing me that "oh, if you can read some iso's, you not catching up when in thread is scummy" when I explained I have limited time to begin with is just not empathizing with my current state while in thread.

And you keep saying I "majorly failed the response" but I have been responding to your questions/accusations. And then when I mention how it is suspicious from my POV, you justify yourself and then immediately turn on me when I start doing so. Like it feels to me that you are not understanding where I am coming from Mac. That's my issue

[Porscha]

oh there was colors around that. didn't notice. my bad. lol

[arogame123]

And I literally wasted time over this useless conversation if you are v like I believe you are instead of continuing my catch up. Ping me if you have any questions, I will respond shortly SPF.

[Porscha]

I got pissed because it was objectively anti town for lily to not follow me

what lily did on it's own regardless of following you or anyone else was anti town lol. and she doesnt *know* your alignment unless she has tmi so ultimately even if she is tr'ing you, you can always be any alignment at that point. if you'd look at it objectively and not from your pov then I think you'd understand this despite the frustration that you have the right to feel from it

[Seanzie]

i think part of the problem with this game is that i'm struggling to establish a foundation of people that i trust, and all of my thoughts more disjointed than they usually are

i think that mac is blatant town and the way he has played over the last ~2 hours or so cement that fact. i don't think his push on alison comes out in the specific way that it has (or with the level of conviction that it has) in a world where he's mafia

i'm struggling to come to alison being a wolf for a couple of reasons:

1. if alison is mafia, who reasonably has partner equity with her? the momentum against her yesterday came almost exclusively from a pool of people that i perceive as likely containing a high number of wolves, and most of these were players were widely POE'd yesterday as well (ie: Nanook, Neon, Porscha,, Seanzie,, RondoDimBuckle all had their votes on alison toward the end of the day and were among the earliest to push against her)

so, in a world where the wolves are being correctly widely POE'd by the rest of the game and are in an unstable thread position, why on earth would they decide to hardbus alison? what would they gain from bussing one of the strongest players in the game who could easily endgame as a wolf? what tangible benefit would they get from it?

the alternative is that alison actually is mafia and her partners voted to protect her on d1, but this would require that:

A. my view of the game is upside down and there are multiple wolves contained within like, (mac, lily, lucy, aro), etc

B. the wolves were willing to go hard to protect alison on d1 with the full awareness that they would look bad in a world where she inevitably flipped W

this doesn't seem like a risk that most wolf teams would be willing to take, and i actually suspect that alison is the type of player who would ASK to be bussed in the position she was in on d1, but i don't see any viable bussers for her that wouldn't have been stupidly suicidal/playing against the win condition of their team to try to bury her on d1

2. i just don't find her posts that wolfy. maybe this is a skill issue on my part, and maybe my mind will change once i read mac's posts about alison more thoroughly, but i just don't! she is much more assertive and forceful with her reads than she was in the spec chat inviational, in which she was extremely passive and barely made moves to influence the threadstate. she is much more naturally suspicious of me even though she would almost want to pocket me in a world where she's a wolf and i'm incorrectly defending her. and in general, i don't find the reasons i've seen to scumread her (outside of some of mac's points) to be compelling or good.....at all

so yeah idk, im trying my best to conceptualize analison wolf world but i can't really shake the feeling that she's more likely to be town than not. there have been multiple times in recent memory where i had a correct read and the entire gamestate was telling me i was wrong and i ended up being right anyway - i don't really want to doubt my instincts even though i'm aware that i'm creating quite the hole for myself in a world where alison is W

porscha is still a wide target of suspicion among most people here, but i am similarly struggling to grasp what the case on her is. i agree that some of her posts in early d1 felt fake and like they came from a wolf that is going through the motions, but i think she has significantly improved from the middle of d1- nward, even if i'm not confident about her being town. i think that i need a specific case against porscha in order for me to get to a world where she's a wolf, because as of now i would describe her posts as being: "broadly fine"

i want to write a paragraph for every player here but im losing energy so im just gonna post it

guess you would need to possibly consider that some of those players aren't wolves?

perhaps that is not the world we are in?

out of these players listed specifically, I am not against lucy or aro possibly being wolves. I TR mac and lily.

do you find alison's gameplay to be difficult to find between her alignments? she is a logical argument based player - this leads to more "objective" and "logical" conclusions that may be hard to differentiate between alignment play. Are you basing your alison read on her actual posts, or on meta from the last game you mentioned where she wolfed? A combination maybe?

why does everybody always say this lol. wolves can't pocket everyone...

which ones?

Which world are we win?

Why do you wolf read them and town read the others?

1) I think out of those listed, nook is most likely, neon possible, doubtful on sean

2) I don't know I just like asking people stupid questions about game state views to help ensure bases get covered

3) when I made the post, I have had mac town from his kerfluffle with alison earlier in the game. I think lily has towntold. I felt relatively null on lucy earlier but since her posts regarding the creature push, she comes off as more towny. I will watch her closely but she can be tl. I haven't particularly found something to sr her for. as for aro - I dont feel I can read him particularly well and I'm always worried he's wolfing in front of my very eyes. no particular sr for him at the time either. it was based on who I tr'd which just left the remainders but I would not say I am currently sr'ing both of them. curious to see both of their progressions tho

Talk to me about... me.

[Seanzie]

And I literally wasted time over this useless conversation if you are v like I believe you are instead of continuing my catch up. Ping me if you have any questions, I will respond shortly SPF.

Are you not going to respond to me?

[Porscha]

Also, I think it's time to take a leap of faith and do a BUSSY!

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Boq, I know you said this was a good idea in wolf chat, but I don't think I'll actually get a lot of towncred for this. I'm trusting your judgement though.

I wish you could see my face reading that first line because... excuse me??????????? lmfao

[arogame123]

And I literally wasted time over this useless conversation if you are v like I believe you are instead of continuing my catch up. Ping me if you have any questions, I will respond shortly SPF.

Are you not going to respond to me?

Oh mb, I thought I did.

I said besides turbos and mashes, I have only those 3 in total. I am relatively new to forum.

[Porscha]

i think part of the problem with this game is that i'm struggling to establish a foundation of people that i trust, and all of my thoughts more disjointed than they usually are

i think that mac is blatant town and the way he has played over the last ~2 hours or so cement that fact. i don't think his push on alison comes out in the specific way that it has (or with the level of conviction that it has) in a world where he's mafia

i'm struggling to come to alison being a wolf for a couple of reasons:

1. if alison is mafia, who reasonably has partner equity with her? the momentum against her yesterday came almost exclusively from a pool of people that i perceive as likely containing a high number of wolves, and most of these were players were widely POE'd yesterday as well (ie: Nanook, Neon, Porscha,, Seanzie,, RondoDimBuckle all had their votes on alison toward the end of the day and were among the earliest to push against her)

so, in a world where the wolves are being correctly widely POE'd by the rest of the game and are in an unstable thread position, why on earth would they decide to hardbus alison? what would they gain from bussing one of the strongest players in the game who could easily endgame as a wolf? what tangible benefit would they get from it?

the alternative is that alison actually is mafia and her partners voted to protect her on d1, but this would require that:

A. my view of the game is upside down and there are multiple wolves contained within like, (mac, lily, lucy, aro), etc

B. the wolves were willing to go hard to protect alison on d1 with the full awareness that they would look bad in a world where she inevitably flipped W

this doesn't seem like a risk that most wolf teams would be willing to take, and i actually suspect that alison is the type of player who would ASK to be bussed in the position she was in on d1, but i don't see any viable bussers for her that wouldn't have been stupidly suicidal/playing against the win condition of their team to try to bury her on d1

2. i just don't find her posts that wolfy. maybe this is a skill issue on my part, and maybe my mind will change once i read mac's posts about alison more thoroughly, but i just don't! she is much more assertive and forceful with her reads than she was in the spec chat inviational, in which she was extremely passive and barely made moves to influence the threadstate. she is much more naturally suspicious of me even though she would almost want to pocket me in a world where she's a wolf and i'm incorrectly defending her. and in general, i don't find the reasons i've seen to scumread her (outside of some of mac's points) to be compelling or good.....at all

so yeah idk, im trying my best to conceptualize analison wolf world but i can't really shake the feeling that she's more likely to be town than not. there have been multiple times in recent memory where i had a correct read and the entire gamestate was telling me i was wrong and i ended up being right anyway - i don't really want to doubt my instincts even though i'm aware that i'm creating quite the hole for myself in a world where alison is W

porscha is still a wide target of suspicion among most people here, but i am similarly struggling to grasp what the case on her is. i agree that some of her posts in early d1 felt fake and like they came from a wolf that is going through the motions, but i think she has significantly improved from the middle of d1- nward, even if i'm not confident about her being town. i think that i need a specific case against porscha in order for me to get to a world where she's a wolf, because as of now i would describe her posts as being: "broadly fine"

i want to write a paragraph for every player here but im losing energy so im just gonna post it

guess you would need to possibly consider that some of those players aren't wolves?

perhaps that is not the world we are in?

out of these players listed specifically, I am not against lucy or aro possibly being wolves. I TR mac and lily.

do you find alison's gameplay to be difficult to find between her alignments? she is a logical argument based player - this leads to more "objective" and "logical" conclusions that may be hard to differentiate between alignment play. Are you basing your alison read on her actual posts, or on meta from the last game you mentioned where she wolfed? A combination maybe?

why does everybody always say this lol. wolves can't pocket everyone...

which ones?

Which world are we win?

Why do you wolf read them and town read the others?

1) I think out of those listed, nook is most likely, neon possible, doubtful on sean

2) I don't know I just like asking people stupid questions about game state views to help ensure bases get covered

3) when I made the post, I have had mac town from his kerfluffle with alison earlier in the game. I think lily has towntold. I felt relatively null on lucy earlier but since her posts regarding the creature push, she comes off as more towny. I will watch her closely but she can be tl. I haven't particularly found something to sr her for. as for aro - I dont feel I can read him particularly well and I'm always worried he's wolfing in front of my very eyes. no particular sr for him at the time either. it was based on who I tr'd which just left the remainders but I would not say I am currently sr'ing both of them. curious to see both of their progressions tho

Talk to me about... me.

► Show Spoiler

sean falcon lock town never rescind

i feel like maybe the right play is to push those who do not provide any read or real content tbh

Like me?

are you saying that your read of me and push on me is just a meme tbh?

I think you might use the word "meme" to much/in situations where it does not apply.

No, my push on you is to see how you and Alison act with me ready to pounce at any moment.

mememememememememe tbh

so how do you qualify at all to my statement?

Because I've done pretty much nothing all game compared to my usual town self (and yet no one except Alison has seemed to notice).

Honestly cant believe you arent tunneling me for my lockdown sean read yet

i feel pretty confident about mac and lily and aro being town. i think boq might be town too. i'm kind of struggling to get a solid grasp on the game beyond that.

why boq town?

-when he was being wagoned by 4-5 people and it looked like he was in serious contention to go over, he decided to vote and push on me, one of his biggest defenders, for not defending him strongly enough. if boq is a wolf then his choice to push on one of the few people defending him would be completely contrary to a self-preservation mindset, and it would risk alienating one of the few people who had a good chance at saving him

-he got salty and passive aggressive about being voted in a way that i kind of don't think he would as wolf tbh - the entitlement/feeling of being "wronged" in the post is a specific mindset that i think a wolf typically struggles to replicate. i'm thinking of posts like this one:

@Creature
Is it your town tell or something to ignore my questions and refuse to engage with me in a meaningful manner on the syndicate? You did that the last time we played here and you wolf read me until I was finally NK'd.

You also wrote in the spec chat game "it is too early to town read Boq" (which is what made me town read you).

So like, I am town reading you now again, but what gives tbh?

In Halvosen Ridge I ignored you until day 3 when I had both you and JJJ as wolves. Since I was right on JJJ being wolf and another town died also believing you two were wolves, I thought you were wolf until like the day before you died. In spec chat game all I did say was that you shluldn't be cleared too easily. Yet I ignored you and you ended up dying anyway.

I remember someone commenting in Halvosen Ridge that you seemed "lone". I also remember in spec chat you were forming actual reads and ended up coming with a readslist. I'm not seeing either things his game, your votes look kinda meh (Porscha is one vote I had in mind), it feels like you're doing lip job service instead of solving (like saying "we should go for someone not solving" and coming with a quick-made list) and hence why I'm concerned about you.

Wtf I have formed several reads this game, produced a read list, and actively engaged with several players. I have pushed Porscha to form a more concrete read, an action that cant be said about many players currently. You are taking 1 post of plenty to mischaracterise my whole play. Also, that list was correct and is also made to make people say something. Neon, Nook and Porscha had all complaints about the list

You complain about nothing happening yet you do nothing to affect the game. You push me and say I am doing nothing when I am the player who is creating the most splash in the thread tbh. I have formed more actual reads than the majority of this game tbqh.

but sure, maybe i should just go
lel i am town
oh u vote me now i will vote u
gn solving hard
i like trains
i picked flowers yesterday
pushing me is a crime against society tbh
i wonder what movie i should watch
cyndaquil is a good starter
poop penis tv show tbh
Am I town read now? I am out of my wolf range tbh

also cold to ignore me like that tbh, have i done something?

-he generally just came off as one of the most invested solvers on d1 at a stage when lots of people were slanking and it would have been very easy for him to sit back and ~blend in~ with the rest of the thread as a wolf

who do u think the mafia is?

I see. I sort of thought his issue with me was him blowing it out of proportion, but I dont know that would be alignment indicative for him. It's very possible he isnt a wolf, I have 0 meta on him and he hasn't done anything specific that really makes me believe he's likely wolfing. it isn't unusual for people to use my "shading" but not voting on every little thing I see method of play to believe i'm wolfy, so I don't think it's alignment indicative.

my poe is pretty open. I still believe mac is town, I don't have a reason to think sean is wolfing past him not pushing me for my TR on him early, but maybe we are on the same wavelength for once, so i'm not worried about him for now. lily reads pretty TR for me and I don't think she makes the vote she did eod if she's wolf. neon I can't say for sure, but they can be tl. lucy is null enough for me to consider them, I can still consider boq, i'm entirely unsure of aro I dont remember their posts yesterday in the slightest, I like to believe you are town spf but I am afraid that I am not good at reading you so I don't mind leaving your slot floating until I feel like my feet are on the ground, and alison, well, in theory she needs to be policied. I can't say for certain she is wolf, but ultimately she still sr's me and this is just a nuisance to me because when I asked her to show where I was folding, she blatantly refused. I don't feel like I can convince her, to any extent, of her view of me by conversing with her, so it's just frustrating to work with. rondo I will have to wait and see since iirc, they were hardly present yesterday. creature... I feel has been well in his town range, but it's still possible he tried pocketing me yesterday by pushing back a little on my wagon and shrug votes/ reads, but now has zero interest in keeping up with that idea and is willing to just yeet me, so I'm not sure what to think of it. I think if I asked him why this seemed to change, he'd probably just answer something about how i'm being sr'd by alison and other people enough to make him reconsider his initial view of me, so I haven't bothered. unsure of what to do with creature for now. in my first read list, I listed nook as town, but later when I was reviewing it and boq asked me who i'd vote, I said him or nook. something about nook just leaves me feeling a little less confident in him being town than in other games where I find him town, but I'm not sure what it is. I'd like to see more from him. I think that's everyone.

in a day 1 reads list I also said you towntold. you're welcome

[arogame123]

The person I am most likely misclearing is Seanzie especially since he is townclearing Creature. I am currently townreading him because he treated Boq in a very hostile way D1 that I find characteristic of his town play and not of his scum play. I also think he is needlessly setting himself up to look like a fool by pushing Alison/Mac partners D2 - he doesn't have to push that line to get me over so I don't see how that benefits scum Seanzie. But maybe I am wrong and his scum range is bigger than I thought. Do your due diligence on Seanzie before clearing him especially if Creature flips scum.

I don't think Seanzie/Creature are viable. One of the least viable pairings in the game. Seanzie has been townreading Creature and Creature has been very uncomfortable with him doing so, fighting him over it and Seanzie has just been doubling down on the townread through it. It'd be a very unusual w/w dynamic. There are specific context queues to it that make it moreso such as when Seanzie was like "well if it helps this just makes me even more sure you're town" when Creature was foiling Seanzie trying yo pocket him.

Oh yes, I remember that quote you brought up. Yea, I can add Seanzie/Creature to the non w/w list.

Lmk if you agree or disagree with any of the other non w/w I listed.

Hehe, Creature, it's working!

Oh crap this isn't wolf chat!

These are the posts that I am referring to in regards to your tone. Maybe condescending isn't the right word but kind of egging or teasing I suppose.

[Porscha]

but since I am talking to you three scum directly, I will not say who I think it is and you have to gauge if I'm bluffing or not

let's go all in baby i'll get the straight on the river

[arogame123]

Seanzie is playing in an extremely limited way. Scum is usually seen casting a wide net so if their preferred misyeet occurs, they are not left with zero reads. However scum CAN play like this and I have seen it happen. I am still leaning to Seanzie being town. Mostly because he is stubbornly informing everyone that he is indeed still in his scum range. It feels like it is coming from a pov where you are irritated that people are looking down on your scum game/clearing you too easily (thus underestimating you) and this is something an actual wolf WANTS town to do. Whereas a town player has a more holistic mindset where this reaction can stem from.

I was reading over some of Seanzie's town games and he is def more stubborn with his pushes and usually picks a few targets like 1 or 2 and just continues to push on them without looking much outside. It's like a deer with headlights and it seems very similar this game. Also, I noticed some similar tone with his condescendingness like he showed in this game with his response to Mac at EoD with "Oooh, I want towncred on myself" and it meta wise it seems similar based off the games I perused. SPF mentioned that she got powerwolf vibes from Seanzie, but I disagree as Seanzie as mafia was more laid back and kind of a coaster than an aggressor based off what I read in a couple of his mafia games. I have been burned by these comparison in games *cough* Wisp *cough*, but so far his gameplay and tone have seen very similar to his town games where he picks a target and goes after them and his condescending tone is similar to his town games. Just an observation I had.

I mean... if you have time to be here posting how you do arogame the idea you don't have time to go read the burial case of the game triggers the shit out of me. When people try to pretend they don't have time to read posts while threadsitting for half an hour fucks me up.

I mean I prefer real-timing and interacting with people rather than go in catch up and I will catch up later once I get out of work lol.

Kinda weird conflict here don't ya think? Like if Aro really prefers real timing and interacting why does he go off deep diving into Seanzie games.

Why does he do that anyway lol. Has Aro been even really focussed on Seanzie? I haven't got that impression.

We already talked about this, but just to summarize.

I asked Seanzie about some of his games, he gave it to me, he reminded me to read over them.

I read them in the night, and provided my insight then.

I was busy with work and thus I prefer realtiming and I was leaving while you brought up the Lucy case on creature and I had limited time to read it.

So I'd rather read it at night when I have enough time to focus and deep dive/catch up.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I kinda want to resolve porscha first cause I don't think her and Alison are ever paired

my slot wanted to resolve you. Why shouldnt I just do a 360 and tunnel you?

Idk, do what your heart desires, who am I to judge another

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

I don't see the need for more at this time. I've said what I have to say, I have a kill pool, im responsive to direct questions.

[Porscha]

Super secret heavily tilting reads inside don't read if you're SPF

Spoiler: show

If Alison and Creature are mafia SPF is always the third because they would be the player that has had the most energy consumed by both Alison and Creature in antispew lol.

Also Arogame is massively trend down and SPF's read on them is weird and I don't like it.

Lucy is the mayor if I die nobody else.

Seanzie and Rondo are obvious townies at this point.

I can't wait until I get an opportunity to snow you. (actually... I can... I don't think I'd wolf well if I had as much time as I had for this game... but if I had the time... and opportunity... and the will... and the way...). Either way, your townread of me is generous, to say the least.

this is like my 6th town rand on TS without pulling mafia once
literally 1984

I went over 10 games on TS without randing wolf but the first 2 games I played on FoL I got wolf back to back. unreal

[Seanzie]

Talk to me about... me.

► Show Spoiler

sean falcon lock town never rescind

Like me?

are you saying that your read of me and push on me is just a meme tbh?

I think you might use the word "meme" to much/in situations where it does not apply.

No, my push on you is to see how you and Alison act with me ready to pounce at any moment.

mememememememememe tbh

so how do you qualify at all to my statement?

Because I've done pretty much nothing all game compared to my usual town self (and yet no one except Alison has seemed to notice).

Honestly cant believe you arent tunneling me for my lockdown sean read yet

i feel pretty confident about mac and lily and aro being town. i think boq might be town too. i'm kind of struggling to get a solid grasp on the game beyond that.

why boq town?

-when he was being wagoned by 4-5 people and it looked like he was in serious contention to go over, he decided to vote and push on me, one of his biggest defenders, for not defending him strongly enough. if boq is a wolf then his choice to push on one of the few people defending him would be completely contrary to a self-preservation mindset, and it would risk alienating one of the few people who had a good chance at saving him

-he got salty and passive aggressive about being voted in a way that i kind of don't think he would as wolf tbh - the entitlement/feeling of being "wronged" in the post is a specific mindset that i think a wolf typically struggles to replicate. i'm thinking of posts like this one:

@Creature
Is it your town tell or something to ignore my questions and refuse to engage with me in a meaningful manner on the syndicate? You did that the last time we played here and you wolf read me until I was finally NK'd.

You also wrote in the spec chat game "it is too early to town read Boq" (which is what made me town read you).

So like, I am town reading you now again, but what gives tbh?

In Halvosen Ridge I ignored you until day 3 when I had both you and JJJ as wolves. Since I was right on JJJ being wolf and another town died also believing you two were wolves, I thought you were wolf until like the day before you died. In spec chat game all I did say was that you shluldn't be cleared too easily. Yet I ignored you and you ended up dying anyway.

I remember someone commenting in Halvosen Ridge that you seemed "lone". I also remember in spec chat you were forming actual reads and ended up coming with a readslist. I'm not seeing either things his game, your votes look kinda meh (Porscha is one vote I had in mind), it feels like you're doing lip job service instead of solving (like saying "we should go for someone not solving" and coming with a quick-made list) and hence why I'm concerned about you.

Wtf I have formed several reads this game, produced a read list, and actively engaged with several players. I have pushed Porscha to form a more concrete read, an action that cant be said about many players currently. You are taking 1 post of plenty to mischaracterise my whole play. Also, that list was correct and is also made to make people say something. Neon, Nook and Porscha had all complaints about the list

You complain about nothing happening yet you do nothing to affect the game. You push me and say I am doing nothing when I am the player who is creating the most splash in the thread tbh. I have formed more actual reads than the majority of this game tbqh.

but sure, maybe i should just go
lel i am town
oh u vote me now i will vote u
gn solving hard
i like trains
i picked flowers yesterday
pushing me is a crime against society tbh
i wonder what movie i should watch
cyndaquil is a good starter
poop penis tv show tbh
Am I town read now? I am out of my wolf range tbh

also cold to ignore me like that tbh, have i done something?

-he generally just came off as one of the most invested solvers on d1 at a stage when lots of people were slanking and it would have been very easy for him to sit back and ~blend in~ with the rest of the thread as a wolf

who do u think the mafia is?

I see. I sort of thought his issue with me was him blowing it out of proportion, but I dont know that would be alignment indicative for him. It's very possible he isnt a wolf, I have 0 meta on him and he hasn't done anything specific that really makes me believe he's likely wolfing. it isn't unusual for people to use my "shading" but not voting on every little thing I see method of play to believe i'm wolfy, so I don't think it's alignment indicative.

my poe is pretty open. I still believe mac is town, I don't have a reason to think sean is wolfing past him not pushing me for my TR on him early, but maybe we are on the same wavelength for once, so i'm not worried about him for now. lily reads pretty TR for me and I don't think she makes the vote she did eod if she's wolf. neon I can't say for sure, but they can be tl. lucy is null enough for me to consider them, I can still consider boq, i'm entirely unsure of aro I dont remember their posts yesterday in the slightest, I like to believe you are town spf but I am afraid that I am not good at reading you so I don't mind leaving your slot floating until I feel like my feet are on the ground, and alison, well, in theory she needs to be policied. I can't say for certain she is wolf, but ultimately she still sr's me and this is just a nuisance to me because when I asked her to show where I was folding, she blatantly refused. I don't feel like I can convince her, to any extent, of her view of me by conversing with her, so it's just frustrating to work with. rondo I will have to wait and see since iirc, they were hardly present yesterday. creature... I feel has been well in his town range, but it's still possible he tried pocketing me yesterday by pushing back a little on my wagon and shrug votes/ reads, but now has zero interest in keeping up with that idea and is willing to just yeet me, so I'm not sure what to think of it. I think if I asked him why this seemed to change, he'd probably just answer something about how i'm being sr'd by alison and other people enough to make him reconsider his initial view of me, so I haven't bothered. unsure of what to do with creature for now. in my first read list, I listed nook as town, but later when I was reviewing it and boq asked me who i'd vote, I said him or nook. something about nook just leaves me feeling a little less confident in him being town than in other games where I find him town, but I'm not sure what it is. I'd like to see more from him. I think that's everyone.

in a day 1 reads list I also said you towntold. you're welcome

So your read on me is stagnant and does not include anything from today?

[Seanzie]

The person I am most likely misclearing is Seanzie especially since he is townclearing Creature. I am currently townreading him because he treated Boq in a very hostile way D1 that I find characteristic of his town play and not of his scum play. I also think he is needlessly setting himself up to look like a fool by pushing Alison/Mac partners D2 - he doesn't have to push that line to get me over so I don't see how that benefits scum Seanzie. But maybe I am wrong and his scum range is bigger than I thought. Do your due diligence on Seanzie before clearing him especially if Creature flips scum.

I don't think Seanzie/Creature are viable. One of the least viable pairings in the game. Seanzie has been townreading Creature and Creature has been very uncomfortable with him doing so, fighting him over it and Seanzie has just been doubling down on the townread through it. It'd be a very unusual w/w dynamic. There are specific context queues to it that make it moreso such as when Seanzie was like "well if it helps this just makes me even more sure you're town" when Creature was foiling Seanzie trying yo pocket him.

Oh yes, I remember that quote you brought up. Yea, I can add Seanzie/Creature to the non w/w list.

Lmk if you agree or disagree with any of the other non w/w I listed.

Hehe, Creature, it's working!

Oh crap this isn't wolf chat!

These are the posts that I am referring to in regards to your tone. Maybe condescending isn't the right word but kind of egging or teasing I suppose.

Those posts both happened after you described me as condescending. Where was I "condescending" before you described me as such?

[arogame123]

here is my view on everyone in the game - i had to phone some of these reads in/rush my explanations because im low on time and energy and dont want to repeat stuff that ive already typed out multiple times

i still think that alison is probably town, but i will acknowledge that mac has made some legitimate points against her that give me pause. i do agree with mac that based on my understanding of alison as a player, it seems likely to me that alison would enter today pushing porsche today very confidently today as a villager, but i’m not sure how much i should care about this point since alison is ultimately still POE’ing porscha and still trying to get her killed. i think it was also valid for mac to point out that from alison’s POV as town, she would probably view herself as needing to be resolved, but i’m also not sure how much to care about this point since alison has started pushing for herself to die within the last couple of hours

beyond that, i have a couple of primary reasons to think that alison is town. i’ve already gone over them extensively in other posts, but to recap:

-i don’t see many coherent worlds where alison exists as a wolf. alison was voted and pushed heavily by nearly everyone in my current POE on d1, which means that a world where alison is a wolf is also likely to be a world where she was hard bussed and pushed for absolutely zero reason by the rest of her team who was also being widely POE’d and suspected. this does not make any god damn sense to me as a scum strategy, and i think it could just be indicative of alison being a villager

-the only world where alison is a wolf is likely to be a world where my view of the game is very bad and i am totally wolfsiding, which is a world where wolves are likely to be on the falcon voters on d1, which would mean there are probably multiple wolves within like, (mac, arogame, lilypetal, lucy, etc), which i currently consider to be unlikely to be the case

-alison’s approach toward me today makes almost zero sense in a world where she is mafia. i can not conceptualize a world where alison is a wolf, i am the only player in the game actively defending her, and she goes out of her way to push on me, show skepticism toward me, and try to set me up as a potential elimination. it is the easiest possible way that i could turn on her, and i think she is unlikely to risk alienating one of the few people actively speaking in her defense as a wolf

-she lacks any self-preservation intent, to the extent that she is now self-voting and asking to be eliminated, which i have only seen her do as town and never seen her do as mafia

my view is that alison was pushed on heavily by the mafia at the beginning of the game for bad, shoddy reasons and then the suspicion against her gained momentum largely through osmosis. i feel that my arguments for her to be town are stronger than my arguments for her to be mafia

i’m struggling to conceptualize a world where creature is town, even though it’s still possible in theory. his pushes on me/mac are horrible and remind me of how hells pushed a blatantly incorrect worldview from d2-onward in the spec chat invitational because they were in anti-spew. their reads are not building up to a coherent or logical worldview. i expanded on my concerns on creature here (https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 06#p955506) .

i think that boq is likely to be town for reasons i outlined here. (https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 655#p95565)

lily is one of my strongest townreads for reasons i outlined here viewtopic.php?p=956252#p956252 and here viewtopic.php?p=955494#p955494 and because of the way she responded to both the pressure against her on d1 and the pressure that alisona/ro gave her over the last several pages. i am mildly concerned about clearing her too easily because i don’t really know what her wolfrange looks like, but think she looks like a villager from pretty much all perspectives

lucy is a townlean for reasons outlined here viewtopic.php?p=956252#p956252. i can explain this read in more detail if it’s needed but i’ml leaving it short to save on time

i think mac is an obvious villager and wouldnt tinfoil him until LYLO at the earliest

i have no reason to townread the misssparkles slot and think they could be an lolwolf in an easy world. i have been burned too many times lately with assuming that LHF/slanky slots are wolves to feel any level of confidence about that, though

i think the only real concern i have about aro right now is his push on lily, because the way he was interrogating her earlier in the thread felt like a wolf trying desperately to hang on to a viable miselimination and less like a villager genuinely trying to figure out lily’s alignment

but thinking about it more, i think his treatment of lily might be town indicative for him. @lilypetal - based on my understanding of aro’s scumgame, he has a tendency to be very cloying and pocket toward nearly everyone, and he goes out of his way to avoid making enemies with other people. he is very conflict avoidant, and his main focus is looking as agreeable as possible so that he can stay deep and avoid facing any scrutiny. i think that his push on you in this game accomplishes the exact opposite of this, because it is almost guaranteed to draw negative attention to himself and make him look worse, when if he is a wolf he could easily just push within the more consensus-y names and nobody would bat an eye. i think his treatment of you as a wolf would probably be a lot more pockety and a lot more focused on making sure he looks good from your point of view. the fact that he has continued pushing on you for so long makes me think he might just be a villager who is genuinely having a hard time coming to a world where you’re town

and more broadly, if i ask myself: “who do i think is trying to solve the game the most?, aro stands out as one of the top names putting the most effort into piecing things together and communicating with others, and his reads generally just seem more complex and multi-faceted than he did when i saw him as a wolf in a recent game. i know that aro has an incredible wolf game but much like alison, i think i have more reasons to call him town than not, and the answer that requires the least amount of assumptions is that hei s just town

i would like neon to be town because i like her playstyle/personality but i am struggling to come up with any coherent reasons for why she IS town beyond: “some of her posts feel tonally towny”, and that’s the type of territory where i tend to misread players the most. can anyone who townreads neon give me a bit more clarity on why?

i townlean porsche because her response to pressure + depth of thought exhibited in solving + general sense of entitlement after being widely POE’d by the rest of the game feel more like they come from the attitude of a villager who feels scorned and less like they come from a wolf who is being correctly pushed. i acknowledge that this is weak read but it’s what my intuition feels anyway

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

i think seanzie has wolf equity for reasons outlined here: https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 54#p955754

So real quick, one of the things and I will address this later, is I noticed you have me, Mac, Boq, Lucy, Lily as towns, followed with townleans on Alison, Porsche.

Then it seems like you sr Seanzie and creature both independently, but I have listed and others as well for the reasoning why Seanzie and creature are likely not w/w.

So likely even if there is a mafia in there, there has to be two outside. So from ur pov, you have Nanook/Rondo/Neon. So do you believe the last 2 are in that pile or is there someone that you think you could possibly be misreading in your towns?

Additionally, I posted a not w/w list earlier incase u want to check it out and give your thoughts/perspective on that or add to it.