King of the Hill Mafia

[arogame123]

The person I am most likely misclearing is Seanzie especially since he is townclearing Creature. I am currently townreading him because he treated Boq in a very hostile way D1 that I find characteristic of his town play and not of his scum play. I also think he is needlessly setting himself up to look like a fool by pushing Alison/Mac partners D2 - he doesn't have to push that line to get me over so I don't see how that benefits scum Seanzie. But maybe I am wrong and his scum range is bigger than I thought. Do your due diligence on Seanzie before clearing him especially if Creature flips scum.

I don't think Seanzie/Creature are viable. One of the least viable pairings in the game. Seanzie has been townreading Creature and Creature has been very uncomfortable with him doing so, fighting him over it and Seanzie has just been doubling down on the townread through it. It'd be a very unusual w/w dynamic. There are specific context queues to it that make it moreso such as when Seanzie was like "well if it helps this just makes me even more sure you're town" when Creature was foiling Seanzie trying yo pocket him.

Oh yes, I remember that quote you brought up. Yea, I can add Seanzie/Creature to the non w/w list.

Lmk if you agree or disagree with any of the other non w/w I listed.

Hehe, Creature, it's working!

Oh crap this isn't wolf chat!

These are the posts that I am referring to in regards to your tone. Maybe condescending isn't the right word but kind of egging or teasing I suppose.

Those posts both happened after you described me as condescending. Where was I "condescending" before you described me as such?

Sure, I can pull up those quotes as well. It was just something I noticed when I gave that original read when I found more of those gems.

[Seanzie]

Are y'all sure we shouldn't just kill Boq?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

[arogame123]

also, yes, i still think that alison is town. if i'm wrong and wolfsiding by accident, then whatever, i can accept that. i think there is a high likeliehood that creature has spewed alison as town based on the way he has spoken about her throughout the last few pages, and i also do not see any self-preservation intent in the way that alison is attempting to play today. in fact, i've only seen her give up and admit defeat as a villager before, even though i'm sure it is something that is plausibly within her wolfrange

the only concern i have about alison is that she's pushing a POE (ie: me/porscha) that seems potentially wolfsided, but even then, i don't feel the wolf motivation behind her pushes and think it is mroe likely she is a villager with an upside down view of the game

I was gonna ask you SPF, I posted earlier that what Alison was doing reminded me of what she did in C v D. By chance, do you know if Alison has done this before as mafia?

Admittedly, the only other townie thing I saw from Alison was her approach to EoD1 where she wanted to kill her mafia read and try to take the wagon off Falcon despite Falcon sr her. And she only self-pressed till the very last moment. But other than that, I didn't like Alison's day 1 and how she became jovenile towards Neon after the initial sr only to put her in POE again, which from her perspective, I can understand. But it did remind me of what u were saying about Alison as mafia in the SCI game where Alison likes to be a bit more jovenile and friendly towards certain slots to appeal to them.

no i've literally only seen her give up in situations where she's town and decides that her dying is the best possible thing for the game. i've never seen her do it as mafia, even for wifom purposes, even though i'm sure it's within her wolfrange. i don't think the fact that she's offering to die is that towny within itself, but i think it looks towny in combination with the fact that alison has shown basically zero self-preservation intent or intent to stay alive for a good majority of today

Hmmm, interesting you bring up the last point. Cause I remember in Cats V Dogs she had that intention to offer herself and everyone just let it be and no one really tr her for it. Now being that this is day 2, I can def see that and the no self-pres to me is the likely towniest thing from her.

But independent of that, is there any other reason you are tr Alison or found her posts townie from day 1?

[arogame123]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

From what I remember, I think she did somewhat find you towards the end after like 4 days or so.

[arogame123]

So like I feel like Nook's town read on me is TMI. I should probably vote there.

Hi Seanzie.

Heyo! Good to see you! I also have TMI on you, but that's because I hacked into the discord server and found out that your alignment is

Spoiler: show

[redacted]

Normally I would just town read plays like Seanzie's, but I got severly burned by blindly town reading that in anni so I will wait and see.
I guess if I will go tinfoil, he could be scum with someone he fears will be playing "suboptimally" and thus went on. Feels a bit too reachy tho

It's because I play suboptimally as scum, so if I let you scumhunt based on that, you'll find me.

These were just a few from day 1

[arogame123]

Fuggit, engage hypocrite mode

[VOTE: creature] aubergine

lol hypocrite. I gotta change my banner to that tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

From what I remember, I think she did somewhat find you towards the end after like 4 days or so.

"Eventually kinda maybe at the end a bit" does not constitute a god read lol

[arogame123]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

From what I remember, I think she did somewhat find you towards the end after like 4 days or so.

"Eventually kinda maybe at the end a bit" does not constitute a god read lol

oh, I didn't know that, does SPF have a "god" read on you?

[Porscha]

Talk to me about... me.

► Show Spoiler

sean falcon lock town never rescind

are you saying that your read of me and push on me is just a meme tbh?

I think you might use the word "meme" to much/in situations where it does not apply.

No, my push on you is to see how you and Alison act with me ready to pounce at any moment.

mememememememememe tbh

so how do you qualify at all to my statement?

Because I've done pretty much nothing all game compared to my usual town self (and yet no one except Alison has seemed to notice).

Honestly cant believe you arent tunneling me for my lockdown sean read yet

i feel pretty confident about mac and lily and aro being town. i think boq might be town too. i'm kind of struggling to get a solid grasp on the game beyond that.

why boq town?

-when he was being wagoned by 4-5 people and it looked like he was in serious contention to go over, he decided to vote and push on me, one of his biggest defenders, for not defending him strongly enough. if boq is a wolf then his choice to push on one of the few people defending him would be completely contrary to a self-preservation mindset, and it would risk alienating one of the few people who had a good chance at saving him

-he got salty and passive aggressive about being voted in a way that i kind of don't think he would as wolf tbh - the entitlement/feeling of being "wronged" in the post is a specific mindset that i think a wolf typically struggles to replicate. i'm thinking of posts like this one:

@Creature
Is it your town tell or something to ignore my questions and refuse to engage with me in a meaningful manner on the syndicate? You did that the last time we played here and you wolf read me until I was finally NK'd.

You also wrote in the spec chat game "it is too early to town read Boq" (which is what made me town read you).

So like, I am town reading you now again, but what gives tbh?

In Halvosen Ridge I ignored you until day 3 when I had both you and JJJ as wolves. Since I was right on JJJ being wolf and another town died also believing you two were wolves, I thought you were wolf until like the day before you died. In spec chat game all I did say was that you shluldn't be cleared too easily. Yet I ignored you and you ended up dying anyway.

I remember someone commenting in Halvosen Ridge that you seemed "lone". I also remember in spec chat you were forming actual reads and ended up coming with a readslist. I'm not seeing either things his game, your votes look kinda meh (Porscha is one vote I had in mind), it feels like you're doing lip job service instead of solving (like saying "we should go for someone not solving" and coming with a quick-made list) and hence why I'm concerned about you.

Wtf I have formed several reads this game, produced a read list, and actively engaged with several players. I have pushed Porscha to form a more concrete read, an action that cant be said about many players currently. You are taking 1 post of plenty to mischaracterise my whole play. Also, that list was correct and is also made to make people say something. Neon, Nook and Porscha had all complaints about the list

You complain about nothing happening yet you do nothing to affect the game. You push me and say I am doing nothing when I am the player who is creating the most splash in the thread tbh. I have formed more actual reads than the majority of this game tbqh.

but sure, maybe i should just go
lel i am town
oh u vote me now i will vote u
gn solving hard
i like trains
i picked flowers yesterday
pushing me is a crime against society tbh
i wonder what movie i should watch
cyndaquil is a good starter
poop penis tv show tbh
Am I town read now? I am out of my wolf range tbh

also cold to ignore me like that tbh, have i done something?

-he generally just came off as one of the most invested solvers on d1 at a stage when lots of people were slanking and it would have been very easy for him to sit back and ~blend in~ with the rest of the thread as a wolf

who do u think the mafia is?

I see. I sort of thought his issue with me was him blowing it out of proportion, but I dont know that would be alignment indicative for him. It's very possible he isnt a wolf, I have 0 meta on him and he hasn't done anything specific that really makes me believe he's likely wolfing. it isn't unusual for people to use my "shading" but not voting on every little thing I see method of play to believe i'm wolfy, so I don't think it's alignment indicative.

my poe is pretty open. I still believe mac is town, I don't have a reason to think sean is wolfing past him not pushing me for my TR on him early, but maybe we are on the same wavelength for once, so i'm not worried about him for now. lily reads pretty TR for me and I don't think she makes the vote she did eod if she's wolf. neon I can't say for sure, but they can be tl. lucy is null enough for me to consider them, I can still consider boq, i'm entirely unsure of aro I dont remember their posts yesterday in the slightest, I like to believe you are town spf but I am afraid that I am not good at reading you so I don't mind leaving your slot floating until I feel like my feet are on the ground, and alison, well, in theory she needs to be policied. I can't say for certain she is wolf, but ultimately she still sr's me and this is just a nuisance to me because when I asked her to show where I was folding, she blatantly refused. I don't feel like I can convince her, to any extent, of her view of me by conversing with her, so it's just frustrating to work with. rondo I will have to wait and see since iirc, they were hardly present yesterday. creature... I feel has been well in his town range, but it's still possible he tried pocketing me yesterday by pushing back a little on my wagon and shrug votes/ reads, but now has zero interest in keeping up with that idea and is willing to just yeet me, so I'm not sure what to think of it. I think if I asked him why this seemed to change, he'd probably just answer something about how i'm being sr'd by alison and other people enough to make him reconsider his initial view of me, so I haven't bothered. unsure of what to do with creature for now. in my first read list, I listed nook as town, but later when I was reviewing it and boq asked me who i'd vote, I said him or nook. something about nook just leaves me feeling a little less confident in him being town than in other games where I find him town, but I'm not sure what it is. I'd like to see more from him. I think that's everyone.

in a day 1 reads list I also said you towntold. you're welcome

So your read on me is stagnant and does not include anything from today?

well I just caught up. you're still locktown. sorry to inform you

[arogame123]

People who have read the whole game and are not Creature/Porcha/SPF is that team viable?

No, I don't believe Creature/SPF are compatible.

Mainly for their paranoid reads against each other and how Creature has come into today tinfoiling his tr and going against Mac/Alison/SPF the most.

[Porscha]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

do you think I have a decent record of reading you? cuz I feel the same way spf does

[MacDougall]

People who have read the whole game and are not Creature/Porcha/SPF is that team viable?

No, I don't believe Creature/SPF are compatible.

Mainly for their paranoid reads against each other and how Creature has come into today tinfoiling his tr and going against Mac/Alison/SPF the most.

so you think that wolves don't push their partners?

[Porscha]

Are y'all sure we shouldn't just kill Boq?

what's your reasoning

[arogame123]

People who have read the whole game and are not Creature/Porcha/SPF is that team viable?

No, I don't believe Creature/SPF are compatible.

Mainly for their paranoid reads against each other and how Creature has come into today tinfoiling his tr and going against Mac/Alison/SPF the most.

so you think that wolves don't push their partners?

sure, wolves could push their partners, but it was in combination with everything that occured day 1 and how they treated the tr on each other with a certain bit of paranoi towards each other, and when SPF mentioned how she felt eerie of Creature. Like, I don't expect partners to care as much when another partner starts to tinfoil them or suspect them, so Creature and SPF's reaction to each other tinfoiling each other seemed authentic and they were genially put off by one another. Additionally, Creature comes into today tinfoiling all his towns and decides to push Mac/Alison/SPF while SPF chooses to do the same, when they can just vote and push on the easier push in Alison if the team is Creature/Porscha/SPF. It is uncessary bussing and the paranoi from each other from the initial tr came off as non w/w to me.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

From what I remember, I think she did somewhat find you towards the end after like 4 days or so.

"Eventually kinda maybe at the end a bit" does not constitute a god read lol

oh, I didn't know that, does SPF have a "god" read on you?

I mean I'm exaggerating but she does usually claim a good read on me

[Porscha]

People who have read the whole game and are not Creature/Porcha/SPF is that team viable?

No, I don't believe Creature/SPF are compatible.

Mainly for their paranoid reads against each other and how Creature has come into today tinfoiling his tr and going against Mac/Alison/SPF the most.

so you think that wolves don't push their partners?

sure, wolves could push their partners, but it was in combination with everything that occured day 1 and how they treated the tr on each other with a certain bit of paranoi towards each other, and when SPF mentioned how she felt eerie of Creature. Like, I don't expect partners to care as much when another partner starts to tinfoil them or suspect them, so Creature and SPF's reaction to each other tinfoiling each other seemed authentic and they were genially put off by one another. Additionally, Creature comes into today tinfoiling all his towns and decides to push Mac/Alison/SPF while SPF chooses to do the same, when they can just vote and push on the easier push in Alison if the team is Creature/Porscha/SPF. It is uncessary bussing and the paranoi from each other from the initial tr came off as non w/w to me.

your post... it is ... too ...

...

Spoiler: show

your post knows too much.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

do you think I have a decent record of reading you? cuz I feel the same way spf does

I have no idea what your record on me is tbh

[Porscha]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

do you think I have a decent record of reading you? cuz I feel the same way spf does

I have no idea what your record on me is tbh

why does nobody care. who am i

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

do you think I have a decent record of reading you? cuz I feel the same way spf does

I have no idea what your record on me is tbh

why does nobody care. who am i

I don't know what most peoples records on me are, tbf

[MacDougall]

People who have read the whole game and are not Creature/Porcha/SPF is that team viable?

No, I don't believe Creature/SPF are compatible.

Mainly for their paranoid reads against each other and how Creature has come into today tinfoiling his tr and going against Mac/Alison/SPF the most.

so you think that wolves don't push their partners?

sure, wolves could push their partners, but it was in combination with everything that occured day 1 and how they treated the tr on each other with a certain bit of paranoi towards each other, and when SPF mentioned how she felt eerie of Creature. Like, I don't expect partners to care as much when another partner starts to tinfoil them or suspect them, so Creature and SPF's reaction to each other tinfoiling each other seemed authentic and they were genially put off by one another. Additionally, Creature comes into today tinfoiling all his towns and decides to push Mac/Alison/SPF while SPF chooses to do the same, when they can just vote and push on the easier push in Alison if the team is Creature/Porscha/SPF. It is uncessary bussing and the paranoi from each other from the initial tr came off as non w/w to me.

so why is it that you didn't say that in the first place and I had to prompt you for a decent argument? don't feel like explaining yourself?

[MacDougall]

i have no reason to townread nanook and think he might be a wolf that is flying under the radar. if he is town then i can usually find him and i have not found him yet. this concerns me.

I question how much spf has tried to do this, and iirc last time we played she misread me too.

do you think I have a decent record of reading you? cuz I feel the same way spf does

I have no idea what your record on me is tbh

why does nobody care. who am i

I don't know what most peoples records on me are, tbf

my read on you is ... dead sexxxyyyyy

[arogame123]

People who have read the whole game and are not Creature/Porcha/SPF is that team viable?

No, I don't believe Creature/SPF are compatible.

Mainly for their paranoid reads against each other and how Creature has come into today tinfoiling his tr and going against Mac/Alison/SPF the most.

so you think that wolves don't push their partners?

sure, wolves could push their partners, but it was in combination with everything that occured day 1 and how they treated the tr on each other with a certain bit of paranoi towards each other, and when SPF mentioned how she felt eerie of Creature. Like, I don't expect partners to care as much when another partner starts to tinfoil them or suspect them, so Creature and SPF's reaction to each other tinfoiling each other seemed authentic and they were genially put off by one another. Additionally, Creature comes into today tinfoiling all his towns and decides to push Mac/Alison/SPF while SPF chooses to do the same, when they can just vote and push on the easier push in Alison if the team is Creature/Porscha/SPF. It is uncessary bussing and the paranoi from each other from the initial tr came off as non w/w to me.

so why is it that you didn't say that in the first place and I had to prompt you for a decent argument? don't feel like explaining yourself?

I gave a short/concise reasoning and if someone wants me to elaborate, I'll elaborate. I also believe I stated the reasoning a bit earlier in my ISO as well.

Btw, you said you haven't vibed with any of my reads, but I am curious. What did you think of my non w/w list and some of the tr and POE I have aorn?

[MacDougall]

Hard POE

Creature
Arogame
Who cares

[arogame123]

Also @MacDougall, just curious, what happened to wanting to kill Alison today? I thought you were all for killing the cw from day 1?

[staypositivefriend]

nanook idk why youre trying to discredit my read on you by bringing up that i didn't townread you last game lol, i haven't claimed to have a confident read on you in this game, and the fact that i was unable to find you as town in our last game is something i've been taking into account

you are in my POE because if i ask myself the question: "who today is trying to solve the game?", it's difficult for me to say that you are. your poe is mac/alison/porscha/lily/lucy, and i think that pool contains one wolf at maximum, but possibly zero. your presence has been minimal and i just haven't seen anything from you that rings as distinctly towny, if ur town and u want me to find you then you should try posting more tbh

i see there are some other posts that are directed at me but i probably won't answer them until tomorrow, im tired and trying to go to bed

[arogame123]

The wolfteam is prob gonna be something like arogame123 + Boquise + Neon but I doubt we ever win.

??? Why is that ever a thought that comes to your mind when you are hard against SPF/Mac/Alison

[MacDougall]

Also @MacDougall, just curious, what happened to wanting to kill Alison today? I thought you were all for killing the cw from day 1?

Oh, no, you slaughtered me. I'll never recover.

Well you see, Alison has had a really good day and is largely coalescing with my solve now. SPF who is my top town is also really firmly townreading her. In the meantime Creature has had a shocker of a day and is offering no depth of solving, throwing out random readslist after readslist with no underlying thought and all of my town have picked up on it. So unfortunately for past Mac, I have become convinced that Creature is more likely to be a hit than Alison. But as per our previous discussion, I'm okay with being a hypocrite.

If I am wrong and Creature flips town, then we're going to have a nice fun dome between alison and mac on day 3 I take it.

But I will add that SPF, Alison and Mac all developing independent conviction that they are looking at town Creature makes the likelihood of that not being the case extremely low without at least one of us being mafia, so Creature's flip is probably now on par with Alison's in terms of information to gather.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

nanook idk why youre trying to discredit my read on you by bringing up that i didn't townread you last game lol, i haven't claimed to have a confident read on you in this game, and the fact that i was unable to find you as town in our last game is something i've been taking into account

you are in my POE because if i ask myself the question: "who today is trying to solve the game?", it's difficult for me to say that you are. your poe is mac/alison/porscha/lily/lucy, and i think that pool contains one wolf at maximum, but possibly zero. your presence has been minimal and i just haven't seen anything from you that rings as distinctly towny, if ur town and u want me to find you then you should try posting more tbh

i see there are some other posts that are directed at me but i probably won't answer them until tomorrow, im tired and trying to go to bed

I've made plenty of posts lol

[Boquise]

arogame and Boquise's posting after coming back to the thread is pretty townie.

My confidence in my POE grows.

@Boquise I think you are giving too much credit to Porscha for her entitled and passive-aggressive attitude. It feels similar to how you got snowed by Rondo in Halvorsen Ridge because of the way he pushed you - it is easier to fake than you think and I know you haven't seen scum do it before but I have. You don't have to listen to this now, but consider this a personal part of my legacy directed at you and reconsider after my flip.

yeah it is true that Rondo snowed me, though I walked it back at the end (so had I lived I would have snapped him in f3). That read was more based on thread position tbh
Whereas I have been reverse burned by players like Porscha. As in, I have tunnelled players who write like that and they ended up being town tbh.
Like, I know how scum absolutely hates it when town removes a possible lhf by town clearing them so that they will eventually have to nk them and find another target to run the wagons on tbh.

But if you are town I will reconsider this read in the later parts of the game, if I am alive tbh.

[Boquise]

also lol
I fell asleep on my sofa last night and woke up with my laptop on my face tbh

[Porscha]

also lol
I fell asleep on my sofa last night and woke up with my laptop on my face tbh

love that for you tbh

[MacDougall]

nanook idk why youre trying to discredit my read on you by bringing up that i didn't townread you last game lol, i haven't claimed to have a confident read on you in this game, and the fact that i was unable to find you as town in our last game is something i've been taking into account

you are in my POE because if i ask myself the question: "who today is trying to solve the game?", it's difficult for me to say that you are. your poe is mac/alison/porscha/lily/lucy, and i think that pool contains one wolf at maximum, but possibly zero. your presence has been minimal and i just haven't seen anything from you that rings as distinctly towny, if ur town and u want me to find you then you should try posting more tbh

i see there are some other posts that are directed at me but i probably won't answer them until tomorrow, im tired and trying to go to bed

Here's an argument for Nanook town.

If you are wolf Nanook and Alison is your teammate. Do you:

a) Vote her, leave it there, ride the credit for 5 day phases and probably just win
b) Vote the counterwagon sheeping Mac, point out how absurd the fact that Alison is going over day 1 is and probably easily avoid her being a wagon in the first place
or c) Vote her for most of the EOD and only flip when it looks possibly the worst by level 1, help vote out a LHF town that poses little threat and immediately put yourself in everyone's POE

I would suggest the answer is a or b or at least something closer to either than c, which would be what he did.

If you are wolf teammate and Alison is town. Do you:

a) Vote her, leave it there most of the EOD tilting all the strong players and making you look supremely bad in the process only to flip to Falcon, causing you to win no credit and kill a less threatening townie at the same time?
b) Vote her, leave it there and just peace out and hope she goes over
c) Vote the counterwagon sheeping Mac, point out how absurd the fact that Alison is going over day 1 is and pocket SPF, Mac, Alison and probably more players and then just push her on day 2 as the d1 counterwagon and hope town shruglynch her?

I would suggest that, again, b and c are much closer to what he'd do than a, which is what he did do.

[Boquise]

Seanzie is playing in an extremely limited way. Scum is usually seen casting a wide net so if their preferred misyeet occurs, they are not left with zero reads. However scum CAN play like this and I have seen it happen. I am still leaning to Seanzie being town. Mostly because he is stubbornly informing everyone that he is indeed still in his scum range. It feels like it is coming from a pov where you are irritated that people are looking down on your scum game/clearing you too easily (thus underestimating you) and this is something an actual wolf WANTS town to do. Whereas a town player has a more holistic mindset where this reaction can stem from.

I was reading over some of Seanzie's town games and he is def more stubborn with his pushes and usually picks a few targets like 1 or 2 and just continues to push on them without looking much outside. It's like a deer with headlights and it seems very similar this game. Also, I noticed some similar tone with his condescendingness like he showed in this game with his response to Mac at EoD with "Oooh, I want towncred on myself" and it meta wise it seems similar based off the games I perused. SPF mentioned that she got powerwolf vibes from Seanzie, but I disagree as Seanzie as mafia was more laid back and kind of a coaster than an aggressor based off what I read in a couple of his mafia games. I have been burned by these comparison in games *cough* Wisp *cough*, but so far his gameplay and tone have seen very similar to his town games where he picks a target and goes after them and his condescending tone is similar to his town games. Just an observation I had.

nice
us mindmelding makes me feel more secure with this read tbh
I am bumping Seanzie up to town reads for now tbh

[Boquise]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Seanzie @Boquise more content pls

Spoiler: show

tbh

ur mum tbh

[Boquise]

also lol
I fell asleep on my sofa last night and woke up with my laptop on my face tbh

love that for you tbh

thanks tbh
sadly the game thread has not been transported into my brain, despite being on my face for a night smh
----

Calm lesson today, will spend it catching up from last eod tbh

[arogame123]

Also @MacDougall, just curious, what happened to wanting to kill Alison today? I thought you were all for killing the cw from day 1?

Oh, no, you slaughtered me. I'll never recover.

Well you see, Alison has had a really good day and is largely coalescing with my solve now. SPF who is my top town is also really firmly townreading her. In the meantime Creature has had a shocker of a day and is offering no depth of solving, throwing out random readslist after readslist with no underlying thought and all of my town have picked up on it. So unfortunately for past Mac, I have become convinced that Creature is more likely to be a hit than Alison. But as per our previous discussion, I'm okay with being a hypocrite.

If I am wrong and Creature flips town, then we're going to have a nice fun dome between alison and mac on day 3 I take it.

But I will add that SPF, Alison and Mac all developing independent conviction that they are looking at town Creature makes the likelihood of that not being the case extremely low without at least one of us being mafia, so Creature's flip is probably now on par with Alison's in terms of information to gather.

It is interesting you assume that I make it seem like it is a bad thing when I am just questioning you lol.

I mean the thing is, Alison's win con if she is mafia is to get on ur side by agreeing with ur reads and that would make u feel much better about her. Like sure Creature does look a lot worse and admittedly looks like they are flailing throwing a bunch of sr around.

But the one thing I will say about Creature, is that it seems like he has basically 180'd his readlist from yesterday and is almost like throwing shade at majority of the players in this game, me included, and he is less appeasing people and more just going into chaos aorn. And I guess I might be saying he could be TWTBAW, but my main point is I don't see Creature's MO of trying to appeal to people when he continually and constantly throws shade at people the way he does.

Like you have me and Creature in your POE and I know you are at least wrong on me, and if Creature is mafia then great, we got one, but also it does seem a bit odd to me that when Creature starting getting heat when he did, he began to get a lot more traction and rather than appeasing, he just attacks everyone and just voting like a chicken with his head cut off.

I'll post my reads list/thoughts in a few.

[Boquise]

and as i post that i hear my students cause a ruckus
oh dear smh

[MacDougall]

nanook idk why youre trying to discredit my read on you by bringing up that i didn't townread you last game lol, i haven't claimed to have a confident read on you in this game, and the fact that i was unable to find you as town in our last game is something i've been taking into account

you are in my POE because if i ask myself the question: "who today is trying to solve the game?", it's difficult for me to say that you are. your poe is mac/alison/porscha/lily/lucy, and i think that pool contains one wolf at maximum, but possibly zero. your presence has been minimal and i just haven't seen anything from you that rings as distinctly towny, if ur town and u want me to find you then you should try posting more tbh

i see there are some other posts that are directed at me but i probably won't answer them until tomorrow, im tired and trying to go to bed

Here's an argument for Nanook town.

If you are wolf Nanook and Alison is your teammate. Do you:

a) Vote her, leave it there, ride the credit for 5 day phases and probably just win
b) Vote the counterwagon sheeping Mac, point out how absurd the fact that Alison is going over day 1 is and probably easily avoid her being a wagon in the first place
or c) Vote her for most of the EOD and only flip when it looks possibly the worst by level 1, help vote out a LHF town that poses little threat and immediately put yourself in everyone's POE

I would suggest the answer is a or b or at least something closer to either than c, which would be what he did.

If you are wolf teammate and Alison is town. Do you:

a) Vote her, leave it there most of the EOD tilting all the strong players and making you look supremely bad in the process only to flip to Falcon, causing you to win no credit and kill a less threatening townie at the same time?
b) Vote her, leave it there and just peace out and hope she goes over
c) Vote the counterwagon sheeping Mac, point out how absurd the fact that Alison is going over day 1 is and pocket SPF, Mac, Alison and probably more players and then just push her on day 2 as the d1 counterwagon and hope town shruglynch her?

I would suggest that, again, b and c are much closer to what he'd do than a, which is what he did do.

That is to say that I think that the wolves, if Alison is town, are most likely

Putting there vote on her at some stage during the EOD and leaving it there until the very end not moving
or
Not present at EOD at all
or
put their vote on Falcon begrudgingly knowing that Alison is just more likely to survive and expecting that by voting her c/w you'd fall into her day 2 good graces

And if Alison is mafia, are most likely

Hard bussing her in a way that sets them up to gain THE most credit
or
Voting counterwagon and being otherwise slanky/non commital and just crossing fingers hoping Alison doesn't go over

[arogame123]

I also had a couple of thoughts and it's why I am starting to think I may have been wrong on one of my town leans/reads but I am not sure. I felt that on catch up, Rondo felt kinda towny in response to SPF and pointing out the unfairness in regards to the placement of Neon versus the placement of themselves. It felt like Rondo felt that SPF was treating their reads list unfairly and they were quick to point that out and it felt that Rondo had that self-entitlement of where they should belong.

I feel like that strong conviction and standing up to a relatively strong tr in the thread in SPF is def ballsy for Rondo to do if they are mafia, considering the earlier heat they were receiving.

Additionally, Rondo pointed out some inconsistencies with Creature as well which demonstrated a townie looking for "slips and incoherent thoughts" in order to catch the mafia.

Now admittedly, I do not know how good Rondo is at mafia at a baseline, so @RondoDimBuckle if you could provide some mafia and town games, that would be much appreciated. But I did feel some towniness in the depth of solving and conviction from this slot than EoD1 lol. So it's def a major difference there.

[MacDougall]

Also @MacDougall, just curious, what happened to wanting to kill Alison today? I thought you were all for killing the cw from day 1?

Oh, no, you slaughtered me. I'll never recover.

Well you see, Alison has had a really good day and is largely coalescing with my solve now. SPF who is my top town is also really firmly townreading her. In the meantime Creature has had a shocker of a day and is offering no depth of solving, throwing out random readslist after readslist with no underlying thought and all of my town have picked up on it. So unfortunately for past Mac, I have become convinced that Creature is more likely to be a hit than Alison. But as per our previous discussion, I'm okay with being a hypocrite.

If I am wrong and Creature flips town, then we're going to have a nice fun dome between alison and mac on day 3 I take it.

But I will add that SPF, Alison and Mac all developing independent conviction that they are looking at town Creature makes the likelihood of that not being the case extremely low without at least one of us being mafia, so Creature's flip is probably now on par with Alison's in terms of information to gather.

It is interesting you assume that I make it seem like it is a bad thing when I am just questioning you lol.

I mean the thing is, Alison's win con if she is mafia is to get on ur side by agreeing with ur reads and that would make u feel much better about her. Like sure Creature does look a lot worse and admittedly looks like they are flailing throwing a bunch of sr around.

But the one thing I will say about Creature, is that it seems like he has basically 180'd his readlist from yesterday and is almost like throwing shade at majority of the players in this game, me included, and he is less appeasing people and more just going into chaos aorn. And I guess I might be saying he could be TWTBAW, but my main point is I don't see Creature's MO of trying to appeal to people when he continually and constantly throws shade at people the way he does.

Like you have me and Creature in your POE and I know you are at least wrong on me, and if Creature is mafia then great, we got one, but also it does seem a bit odd to me that when Creature starting getting heat when he did, he began to get a lot more traction and rather than appeasing, he just attacks everyone and just voting like a chicken with his head cut off.

I'll post my reads list/thoughts in a few.

Well you keep saying things like "it is interesting" and what not which are blatantly implying you think my behaviour is questionable. And then being like "lol i was just questioning you homie i don't think ur wolf for it" like over and over again. So if you're trying to actually imply that it's not obvious that you're shading me in the way you're responding to me then you're probably just outed mafia for it because what benefit is it to the town to repeatedly shade someone who you townread?

And Alison's win con if she is mafia is not that at all her wincon is to die on day 2 having successfuly spewed the other two wolves so deep that they can openwolf the rest of the game and just win it. Alison surviving day 2 and killing another town has far greater diminishing returns for the mafia team.

If Alison is mafia, the conversation in wolf chat overnight is "I'm probably dying so bus me hard and I'll do my best to otherwise survive". Yet... nobody really did that except me and I know I am town. That gives me pause and a half.

[MacDougall]

Creature voting off wagon on SPF is the most blatant antispew I've ever seen lol. SPF literally never going over today hahaha.

Like this is a done deal that is not a town.

[arogame123]

Also @MacDougall, just curious, what happened to wanting to kill Alison today? I thought you were all for killing the cw from day 1?

Oh, no, you slaughtered me. I'll never recover.

Well you see, Alison has had a really good day and is largely coalescing with my solve now. SPF who is my top town is also really firmly townreading her. In the meantime Creature has had a shocker of a day and is offering no depth of solving, throwing out random readslist after readslist with no underlying thought and all of my town have picked up on it. So unfortunately for past Mac, I have become convinced that Creature is more likely to be a hit than Alison. But as per our previous discussion, I'm okay with being a hypocrite.

If I am wrong and Creature flips town, then we're going to have a nice fun dome between alison and mac on day 3 I take it.

But I will add that SPF, Alison and Mac all developing independent conviction that they are looking at town Creature makes the likelihood of that not being the case extremely low without at least one of us being mafia, so Creature's flip is probably now on par with Alison's in terms of information to gather.

It is interesting you assume that I make it seem like it is a bad thing when I am just questioning you lol.

I mean the thing is, Alison's win con if she is mafia is to get on ur side by agreeing with ur reads and that would make u feel much better about her. Like sure Creature does look a lot worse and admittedly looks like they are flailing throwing a bunch of sr around.

But the one thing I will say about Creature, is that it seems like he has basically 180'd his readlist from yesterday and is almost like throwing shade at majority of the players in this game, me included, and he is less appeasing people and more just going into chaos aorn. And I guess I might be saying he could be TWTBAW, but my main point is I don't see Creature's MO of trying to appeal to people when he continually and constantly throws shade at people the way he does.

Like you have me and Creature in your POE and I know you are at least wrong on me, and if Creature is mafia then great, we got one, but also it does seem a bit odd to me that when Creature starting getting heat when he did, he began to get a lot more traction and rather than appeasing, he just attacks everyone and just voting like a chicken with his head cut off.

I'll post my reads list/thoughts in a few.

Well you keep saying things like "it is interesting" and what not which are blatantly implying you think my behaviour is questionable. And then being like "lol i was just questioning you homie i don't think ur wolf for it" like over and over again. So if you're trying to actually imply that it's not obvious that you're shading me in the way you're responding to me then you're probably just outed mafia for it because what benefit is it to the town to repeatedly shade someone who you townread?

And Alison's win con if she is mafia is not that at all her wincon is to die on day 2 having successfuly spewed the other two wolves so deep that they can openwolf the rest of the game and just win it. Alison surviving day 2 and killing another town has far greater diminishing returns for the mafia team.

If Alison is mafia, the conversation in wolf chat overnight is "I'm probably dying so bus me hard and I'll do my best to otherwise survive". Yet... nobody really did that except me and I know I am town. That gives me pause and a half.

I mean Mac, that is my word choice and style. I am sorry if you feel that way, but I want you to understand the intent behind my posts. A lot of people look at my word choices or use of qualifiers and it's not the right way. I am not the best with words at times and can be convoluted. I ask that you read my intent behind my posts and I am in no way trying to shade you but just attempting to inquire you on thoughts. So that's #1.

I agree with the first part that she would be attempting to spew and have her partners long run if she is mafia.

And to be fair Mac, in the world where Creature is town and if Alison is mafia, then there was some backlash against the push on Alison onto someone else. But obviously, that is why at this point, killing between Alison and Creature is optimal.

But I want to ask you, cause I saw ur POE earlier and was looking at some potential "team building" scenarios. Without me in it, who do u think Creature's other 2 partners are considering the game state?

[arogame123]

Creature voting off wagon on SPF is the most blatant antispew I've ever seen lol. SPF literally never going over today hahaha.

Like this is a done deal that is not a town.

Yea, that to me was a pretty bad vote at the time and was considered "open wolfing" and was pure omgus at that point.

[Porscha]

you guys ever wonder if aro has a homie tell

[MacDougall]

No idea. We chop Creature and figure that out later.

[Boquise]

here's a take that makes me feel better about spf
(i know i said i wouldnt tinfoil but i have noticed that i am always paranoid of her ig)

Spf was one of the main pushers of Jack, and though her push on Seanzie is nagl, I do think wolf!Spf would not kill Jack. It is a wifom kill, definitely, but it removes a possible agenda for wolf!Spf in D2, and I find that an unlikely take tbh

[arogame123]

here's a take that makes me feel better about spf
(i know i said i wouldnt tinfoil but i have noticed that i am always paranoid of her ig)

Spf was one of the main pushers of Jack, and though her push on Seanzie is nagl, I do think wolf!Spf would not kill Jack. It is a wifom kill, definitely, but it removes a possible agenda for wolf!Spf in D2, and I find that an unlikely take tbh

I do find it unlikely for mafia to kill someone they are sr the previous day esp early on in the game and even though I agree it's wifom, it doesn't make much sense for m!SPF to do.

[MacDougall]

Still just think Alison and Creature are both mafia tbh

[Boquise]

i am getting mildly tilted by the gamestate but it's because i am partly grumpy and tired so im trying to hold my tongue

this gamestate is really quite horrible though

We'll prob end up (mis)lynching falcon45ca D1 again.

aren't u on Falcon rn tho? I am confused.

I'm kinda sheeping Mac and I also have a feeling falcon45ca is hitting his wolf tell of repeatedly pushing someone as if he had an agenda.

Though lynching falcon45ca D1 gives me deja vu of Halvosen Ridge where he was wolfread by reputable players D1 and ended up flipping town.

i am getting mildly tilted by the gamestate but it's because i am partly grumpy and tired so im trying to hold my tongue

this gamestate is really quite horrible though

We'll prob end up (mis)lynching falcon45ca D1 again.

I've seen that happen 1 time. I've seen him flip wolf about 10.