King of the Hill Mafia

[robyn]

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

SPF has been steadily trending down after I initially townread her at the start of the day and this is a big part of why. SPF has consistently suspected me whenever she is town, regardless of my alignment unless/until I bury a couple of wolves. Her nearly paranoia free stance on me this game reeks of TMI and reeks of mafia wanting to drag me to endgame where I am a free misexe. I was particularly pinged by her argument that I should be forgiven for my results this game when she is usually very strict on reading me by results especially after last game where it is what led her to concluding I am mafia despite townreading my play.

can you link that?
I do remember the warrior stuff

[staypositivefriend]

SPF, I saw you mention Alison has not been leading the game or leading mislynches and therefore her votes cannot be her fault. But have you considered she hasn't HAD to lead the game or lead lynches when the town has been ML'ing town? Why is this seem outside of possibility when you discuss Alison?

right, but the logic of: "alison is an outed wolf because it's d3 and she doesn't have any pelts" doesn't apply as strongly to this game because the specific position that she's in means it would be harder for her to lead the game, regardless of her alignment. this doesn't discount the possibility that she's simply a mafia who has been sitting back and letting town destroy itself, but that wasn't the point being argued

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend do you think these posts from aro are just wrong or wolf indicative?

if im being totally honest he feels more like an aggressively incorrect villager to me than someone with a nefarious wolf agenda but im annoyed so i want him to be mafia lol

sick hedge

it's not a hedge i think he's probably town

[Alison]

So mafia are in the people who didn't care whether Creature or I went over yesterday. Porscha continues to be a candidate for that. Seanzie is another.

you only bring up my name when I was the only one still gave creature any value of not being "an outted wolf" which is more than virtually anyone else gave him. so I'd disagree my name should be brought up before anyone else's. unless you would like to push the TMI idea as I would have called it. what do you think of everyone else who literally did nothing except agree creature was outted wolf when he was well within his town range?

This is false. Both Seanzie and I stated that Creature was in his town meta.

So Alison is incorrect in putting Seanzie there too

Giving Creature credit for not being an outed wolf has nothing to do with my read. It is easy to look at some random villa being hard tunnelled by Mac/SPF/Alison and go... "hmm I think they are town", then chill as they get buried. I was reading people based on how much they seemed to genuinely care about the outcome of the day. Porscha said Creature is probably town but she herself described it as a shameful townread and seemed content to park on me and chill rather than loudly trying to get people off Creature. Same with Seanzie.

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone in this game know how to read drwilgy?

[Porscha]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

must be rough being in the minority of the game eh :/

I agree mac made the best argument. if you believe that alison is town and that the alison wagon was not pure, then you should know at least part of why she was wagon'd - to take advantage of a strong town player ML day 1 for wolves.
Alison was wagon day 2 because of the counterwagon needs to flip conversation. not sure how you missed that or why you even asked it. i'll assume it's because you're drunk, I guess.

Being in contention can get townie players ML'd for the sake of flipping and the information it brings. Because if alison were to flip wolf today, for example, you would potentially be reading her day 1 wagon differently, wouldn't you? You'd be going back and looking for coasting players / votes on her slot. why are you asking these kinds of questions? Even if you are against policy yeeting, you have to understand the answers to your questions are readily, dare I say EXTREMELY, available to you.

@Porscha - it seems like you misunderstood what i was trying to say in that post, though i don't blame you since i was drunk and writing in a pretty sloppy way. yes, i understand that alison was wagoned on d2 because she was the counterwagon on d1 and people wanted her to flip, but i wasn't literally asking why she she was voted on d2, i was asking what she has actually done that is wolf-indicative for her, and what specific behavior from her warranted the votes on the first place. i thought i made this clear when i talked about how the game was stuck in a "self fulfilling prophesy" of voting for alison because she was voted on d1 and not because she has atually wolftold

Ah, I see. Well besides mac's argument and my beliefs that alison didnt stick to her guns on her self vote and by her own argument is in fact not getting pelts (objectively, without considering *why* she is not getting pelts), then that's mostly it I think. I also have more information than anyone else that the single elimination she did spearhead by herself was also on town, which would make her votes 0/3. By all merits and metrics of alison play, she deserves a flip. You have admitted yourself you have a hard time reading her. I think there are unseen reasons or options into a wolf alison world.

[staypositivefriend]

lily is scum

why

[Alison]

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

SPF has been steadily trending down after I initially townread her at the start of the day and this is a big part of why. SPF has consistently suspected me whenever she is town, regardless of my alignment unless/until I bury a couple of wolves. Her nearly paranoia free stance on me this game reeks of TMI and reeks of mafia wanting to drag me to endgame where I am a free misexe. I was particularly pinged by her argument that I should be forgiven for my results this game when she is usually very strict on reading me by results especially after last game where it is what led her to concluding I am mafia despite townreading my play.

can you link that?
I do remember the warrior stuff

I can't search on MU because I'm banned lol.

I think it was around Day 4? And she said she suspected me because the first three days have been green flips and she doesn't expect that from town Alison. It's actually even worse because she was totally fine with suspecting me there where 2 of the townies were literally afk 0 posters and 1 modkilled himself and she STILL was strictly reading me by results. Which suggests that it is an Alison reading principle she holds in strong regard and would not lightly let go of it here.

[Alison]

does anyone in this game know how to read drwilgy?

I think Wilgy's posting has been townie. He reminds me of Birthday Party.

[Alison]

Ah, I see. Well besides mac's argument and my beliefs that alison didnt stick to her guns on her self vote and by her own argument is in fact not getting pelts (objectively, without considering *why* she is not getting pelts), then that's mostly it I think. I also have more information than anyone else that the single elimination she did spearhead by herself was also on town, which would make her votes 0/3. By all merits and metrics of alison play, she deserves a flip. You have admitted yourself you have a hard time reading her. I think there are unseen reasons or options into a wolf alison world.

Because she has TMI on me

[Alison]

Ah, I see. Well besides mac's argument and my beliefs that alison didnt stick to her guns on her self vote and by her own argument is in fact not getting pelts (objectively, without considering *why* she is not getting pelts), then that's mostly it I think. I also have more information than anyone else that the single elimination she did spearhead by herself was also on town, which would make her votes 0/3. By all merits and metrics of alison play, she deserves a flip. You have admitted yourself you have a hard time reading her. I think there are unseen reasons or options into a wolf alison world.

Because she has TMI on me

Which is why the townie things I have done seem townier to her and the fact that I have bad results etc. doesn't seem as important.

[staypositivefriend]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

must be rough being in the minority of the game eh :/

I agree mac made the best argument. if you believe that alison is town and that the alison wagon was not pure, then you should know at least part of why she was wagon'd - to take advantage of a strong town player ML day 1 for wolves.
Alison was wagon day 2 because of the counterwagon needs to flip conversation. not sure how you missed that or why you even asked it. i'll assume it's because you're drunk, I guess.

Being in contention can get townie players ML'd for the sake of flipping and the information it brings. Because if alison were to flip wolf today, for example, you would potentially be reading her day 1 wagon differently, wouldn't you? You'd be going back and looking for coasting players / votes on her slot. why are you asking these kinds of questions? Even if you are against policy yeeting, you have to understand the answers to your questions are readily, dare I say EXTREMELY, available to you.

@Porscha - it seems like you misunderstood what i was trying to say in that post, though i don't blame you since i was drunk and writing in a pretty sloppy way. yes, i understand that alison was wagoned on d2 because she was the counterwagon on d1 and people wanted her to flip, but i wasn't literally asking why she she was voted on d2, i was asking what she has actually done that is wolf-indicative for her, and what specific behavior from her warranted the votes on the first place. i thought i made this clear when i talked about how the game was stuck in a "self fulfilling prophesy" of voting for alison because she was voted on d1 and not because she has atually wolftold

Ah, I see. Well besides mac's argument and my beliefs that alison didnt stick to her guns on her self vote and by her own argument is in fact not getting pelts (objectively, without considering *why* she is not getting pelts), then that's mostly it I think. I also have more information than anyone else that the single elimination she did spearhead by herself was also on town, which would make her votes 0/3. By all merits and metrics of alison play, she deserves a flip. You have admitted yourself you have a hard time reading her. I think there are unseen reasons or options into a wolf alison world.

well, this is why i'm not resisting an alison flip today, but if you're town you should be able to understand why i feel uneasy and uncomfortable with the gamestate in general

[robyn]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6329007

[staypositivefriend]

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

SPF has been steadily trending down after I initially townread her at the start of the day and this is a big part of why. SPF has consistently suspected me whenever she is town, regardless of my alignment unless/until I bury a couple of wolves. Her nearly paranoia free stance on me this game reeks of TMI and reeks of mafia wanting to drag me to endgame where I am a free misexe. I was particularly pinged by her argument that I should be forgiven for my results this game when she is usually very strict on reading me by results especially after last game where it is what led her to concluding I am mafia despite townreading my play.

can you link that?
I do remember the warrior stuff

I can't search on MU because I'm banned lol.

I think it was around Day 4? And she said she suspected me because the first three days have been green flips and she doesn't expect that from town Alison. It's actually even worse because she was totally fine with suspecting me there where 2 of the townies were literally afk 0 posters and 1 modkilled himself and she STILL was strictly reading me by results. Which suggests that it is an Alison reading principle she holds in strong regard and would not lightly let go of it here.

but if you understand me as a player, you should also be aware that there is nothing more that i hate in mafia games than policy chopping, or chopping people for "information" and not because you actually think they are going to flip mafia

on d1, you were voted by my POE for vague and unclear reasons, which made it logical for me to defend you even though i wasn't sure about your alignment

on d2, you were voted almost exclusively because of "policy" and because "alison needs to be resolved" and not because of any solid reasons, which also made it easy to defend you

on d3, you are once again being voted mainly for "policy" reasons, and the way the rest of the game has treated you has been difficult for me to wrap my head around, but the fact remains that you don't have any pelts to your name and that you are continuing to push a view of the game that is incorrect. for all of these reasons, i am not resisting the chop on you and i am not going to throw a fit about you dying today

so, can you show me at what point during this game i should have been more paranoid about you? do you really think that me not pushing you on d1 or d2 means that i didn't have any paranoia or uncertainty about your alignment?

[staypositivefriend]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6329007

that post is identical to my view of alison in this game, in that the reasons that she was pushed in the first few dayphases were quite bad and alison did not become overly suspicious to me until it was clear that she was pushing a wolf-sided agenda

[Porscha]

im kind of baffled by you describing alison and creature as being in "similar positions" when the way they approached the day yesterday couldnt relaly have been more different

They both are in similar positions as the whole thread are after them. Idk why that wouldn’t be a similar position.

ok well maybe they were in a similar position in the sense that both of them were being scumread by the rest of the thread but the way they approached d2 and interacted w/the people around them could not have been more different, which is why it's absurd that ur trying to draw a comparison between them to discredit my tr on alison

in general your read on alison really bothers me and is probably the biggest concern that i have about ur rn - it feels like ur trying to push a world where she is mafia more than u actually have a good rwason to believe that she s mafia. can u explain like im 5 why alison is mafia fypov?

can I ask you if you ever see a world where alison and creature are both being strongly pressured (creature referred to numerously as "outted wolf" - not a pressure put onto alison in nearly the same way whatsoever) and creature reacts more like alison and alison acts more like creature? they both reacted how they would always react... I'm not sober but I guess what i'm trying to say is that how they reacted to their individual pressures was NAI for both of them. I don't think you should look at the question of "from a similar starting point, how do these players react differently affects my reads on them" because... Creature replied in his own towny way. It's why I wouldn't agree that he was an outted wolf. Under the pressure Creature was under, including STRONG mac tunnel, that is how town Creature replies.
Town alison would never react how Creature reacted, because Alison would never act like that under any circumstances. Do you believe that Alison's response to her pushes, which I would argue (besides the mac argument) that Alison has actually been under quite a bit less scrutiny than Creature was. Why would Alison play any different than she always does, which is a cool-under-pressure town player, and a pretty cool-under-pressure player who you have admitted you aren't very good at reading?

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

again, i feel like you misunderstood what my post was trying to say because this entire post is just you agreeing with me

alison and creature reacted differently to pressure based on their own individual personalities/the context from which they were being pressured in, which means that it is illogical to read their reactions from the same foundation or assume that their reactions should be read in the same way. aro was implying that it was hypocritical for me to read creature and alison from two different standards, when it would actually be illogical to read them from the same standard

also wrt to "opening up my view" on alison, i'm not sure what else you want from me. i've been clear about the fact that i'm not going to put up a fight against alison being eliminated today even though my intuition still feels like she's town. i've been clear about the fact that i think she could just be mafia and that my view of the game is simply wrong. i have been open minded today, but i'm not gonna call alison mafia without a good reason just because you're telling me that i should

Mmm no, I dont think I'm agreeing with you. I agreed with aro that they had at least similar starting positions. You said creatures response was wolfier than Alison's, so you compared their responses to each other (which is better which is worse) rather than asking (do I believe their respective responses make either one of them wolfy)

Feel free to have a gut check TL read on alison. Too bad it takes up a largely disproportionate portion of your ISO, so it has you in a ... position. That makes you look a bit obsessed with Alison's slot despite having only a vibe check TL.

[Porscha]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

must be rough being in the minority of the game eh :/

I agree mac made the best argument. if you believe that alison is town and that the alison wagon was not pure, then you should know at least part of why she was wagon'd - to take advantage of a strong town player ML day 1 for wolves.
Alison was wagon day 2 because of the counterwagon needs to flip conversation. not sure how you missed that or why you even asked it. i'll assume it's because you're drunk, I guess.

Being in contention can get townie players ML'd for the sake of flipping and the information it brings. Because if alison were to flip wolf today, for example, you would potentially be reading her day 1 wagon differently, wouldn't you? You'd be going back and looking for coasting players / votes on her slot. why are you asking these kinds of questions? Even if you are against policy yeeting, you have to understand the answers to your questions are readily, dare I say EXTREMELY, available to you.

@Porscha - it seems like you misunderstood what i was trying to say in that post, though i don't blame you since i was drunk and writing in a pretty sloppy way. yes, i understand that alison was wagoned on d2 because she was the counterwagon on d1 and people wanted her to flip, but i wasn't literally asking why she she was voted on d2, i was asking what she has actually done that is wolf-indicative for her, and what specific behavior from her warranted the votes on the first place. i thought i made this clear when i talked about how the game was stuck in a "self fulfilling prophesy" of voting for alison because she was voted on d1 and not because she has atually wolftold

Ah, I see. Well besides mac's argument and my beliefs that alison didnt stick to her guns on her self vote and by her own argument is in fact not getting pelts (objectively, without considering *why* she is not getting pelts), then that's mostly it I think. I also have more information than anyone else that the single elimination she did spearhead by herself was also on town, which would make her votes 0/3. By all merits and metrics of alison play, she deserves a flip. You have admitted yourself you have a hard time reading her. I think there are unseen reasons or options into a wolf alison world.

well, this is why i'm not resisting an alison flip today, but if you're town you should be able to understand why i feel uneasy and uncomfortable with the gamestate in general

Sure. We have no wolves caught. Your efforts would be better spent evaluating gamestate outside of alison. If its compelling enough, maybe she doesnt go over today just like how mac convinced everyone to flip creature instead.

[staypositivefriend]

im kind of baffled by you describing alison and creature as being in "similar positions" when the way they approached the day yesterday couldnt relaly have been more different

They both are in similar positions as the whole thread are after them. Idk why that wouldn’t be a similar position.

ok well maybe they were in a similar position in the sense that both of them were being scumread by the rest of the thread but the way they approached d2 and interacted w/the people around them could not have been more different, which is why it's absurd that ur trying to draw a comparison between them to discredit my tr on alison

in general your read on alison really bothers me and is probably the biggest concern that i have about ur rn - it feels like ur trying to push a world where she is mafia more than u actually have a good rwason to believe that she s mafia. can u explain like im 5 why alison is mafia fypov?

can I ask you if you ever see a world where alison and creature are both being strongly pressured (creature referred to numerously as "outted wolf" - not a pressure put onto alison in nearly the same way whatsoever) and creature reacts more like alison and alison acts more like creature? they both reacted how they would always react... I'm not sober but I guess what i'm trying to say is that how they reacted to their individual pressures was NAI for both of them. I don't think you should look at the question of "from a similar starting point, how do these players react differently affects my reads on them" because... Creature replied in his own towny way. It's why I wouldn't agree that he was an outted wolf. Under the pressure Creature was under, including STRONG mac tunnel, that is how town Creature replies.
Town alison would never react how Creature reacted, because Alison would never act like that under any circumstances. Do you believe that Alison's response to her pushes, which I would argue (besides the mac argument) that Alison has actually been under quite a bit less scrutiny than Creature was. Why would Alison play any different than she always does, which is a cool-under-pressure town player, and a pretty cool-under-pressure player who you have admitted you aren't very good at reading?

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

again, i feel like you misunderstood what my post was trying to say because this entire post is just you agreeing with me

alison and creature reacted differently to pressure based on their own individual personalities/the context from which they were being pressured in, which means that it is illogical to read their reactions from the same foundation or assume that their reactions should be read in the same way. aro was implying that it was hypocritical for me to read creature and alison from two different standards, when it would actually be illogical to read them from the same standard

also wrt to "opening up my view" on alison, i'm not sure what else you want from me. i've been clear about the fact that i'm not going to put up a fight against alison being eliminated today even though my intuition still feels like she's town. i've been clear about the fact that i think she could just be mafia and that my view of the game is simply wrong. i have been open minded today, but i'm not gonna call alison mafia without a good reason just because you're telling me that i should

Mmm no, I dont think I'm agreeing with you. I agreed with aro that they had at least similar starting positions. You said creatures response was wolfier than Alison's, so you compared their responses to each other (which is better which is worse) rather than asking (do I believe their respective responses make either one of them wolfy)

Feel free to have a gut check TL read on alison. Too bad it takes up a largely disproportionate portion of your ISO, so it has you in a ... position. That makes you look a bit obsessed with Alison's slot despite having only a vibe check TL.

no i think that you're disagreeing with aro, because this is the section of aro's post that i was replying to:

Wow, this is rich coming from you tbh, you’re giving Alison the benefit of the doubt for being in a “wrong gamestate” and when creature was in a similar position, you piled on him like there was no tomorrow?? WhTs that about?

to me, this post is clearly saying that i should be holding creature and alison to the same standards since they were in a similar position, which is why i pointed out that their reactions were incredibly different and that it isn't logical to draw a comparison between the two

feels like semantics but i think youre just wrong about what the conversation was about tbh

[staypositivefriend]

and i'm only obsessed with alison insofar as the entire game has revolved around her and she has been a constant source of conversation, but point taken. i intend to solve outside of alison for the rest of the day since she's clearly going to flip regardless of what i end up concluding about her anyway

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Porscha I think there's likely a mafia in you/lily/alison based on how interactions have gone this game compared to in misplay mafia, I think its probably you based on your play there compared to here, im not entirely sure but you definitely seem different to me, particularly when both overlapped, so

/shrug I dont think it's been that different, but maybe it has. If it is, I dont know why or how. I am taking JJJ's advice and trying to articulate things better rather than slipping into catty mode that comes off as self righteous but I cant think of anything else, really. I also think there is at least one wolf between me lily and alison. I'm not sure I have a stronger opinion on which of alison or lily is more likely wolf right now, though. I'll chew on it some more but I'm gonna be working for a while so I'll get more in depth later

If alison flips red i don't think you're paired so that would get me off you

Idk I...Basically I think you're the most likely mafia of the three but I wouldn't be surprised if you're town either. Honestly you thinking there's one between lily and alison makes me feel better about that grouping too lol

[Alison]

[VOTE: arogame123] aubergine

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Porscha I think there's likely a mafia in you/lily/alison based on how interactions have gone this game compared to in misplay mafia, I think its probably you based on your play there compared to here, im not entirely sure but you definitely seem different to me, particularly when both overlapped, so

/shrug I dont think it's been that different, but maybe it has. If it is, I dont know why or how. I am taking JJJ's advice and trying to articulate things better rather than slipping into catty mode that comes off as self righteous but I cant think of anything else, really. I also think there is at least one wolf between me lily and alison. I'm not sure I have a stronger opinion on which of alison or lily is more likely wolf right now, though. I'll chew on it some more but I'm gonna be working for a while so I'll get more in depth later

If alison flips red i don't think you're paired so that would get me off you

Idk I...Basically I think you're the most likely mafia of the three but I wouldn't be surprised if you're town either. Honestly you thinking there's one between lily and alison makes me feel better about that grouping too lol

I also sort of don't understand why you think it's weird for me not to find you quickly when you acknowledge you've made a change in style/presentation lol

[Seanzie]

Boo!

[Lilypetal]

hello anyone here

[staypositivefriend]

i'm on my way to another concert but i'll be around later tonight/some of tomorrow to talk and try to piece the game together

[staypositivefriend]

lily where is ur head at

[Alison]

@arogame123 @Lilypetal
I'd be interested in hearing the Neon haters talk about their thoughts on Wilgy

[Lilypetal]

@arogame123 @Lilypetal
I'd be interested in hearing the Neon haters talk about their thoughts on Wilgy

seems townier

i feel guilty

[Lilypetal]

lily where is ur head at

i just won a game so my wim is up and i wanna use that to try harder to solve alignments im eh about like aro and find people i actually suspect. So same as yesterday p much. im not sure what to make of lucy pushing me with 0 reasoning especially considering v!lucy happily accepts my correct town reads every game so I almost wanna sr her for pretending like i suddenly don't town read her by end of day 1 constantly.

[Porscha]

Ah, but she seriously voted for herself yesterday in an act of solidarity with "correct" gameplay.
And then she bothered self preserving. Maybe she made an explanation why, maybe I'm forgetting. But I have no recollection of why she did this unless of course, it wasn't that serious of a vote since she wouldn't bother sticking to her guns.
If we are to evaluate Alison on Alison standards, as should probably be done, I believe I had the most correct of gamestate thoughts:
if it is between alison vs creature
or alison vs porscha
Alison is the only constant. I also believe Alison should have recognized this, and Mac threw by confbiasing himself into falcon and creature when both of them were well within their town ranges. SPF, I saw you mention Alison has not been leading the game or leading mislynches and therefore her votes cannot be her fault. But have you considered she hasn't HAD to lead the game or lead lynches when the town has been ML'ing town? Why is this seem outside of possibility when you discuss Alison?

viewtopic.php?p=956984#p956984

For my explanation why I self pressed

I see. Not sure how I feel about it. Thanks for linking me though

[DrWilgy]

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

This just isn't true. 1.) didn't talk about you at all D2 aside from extremely early, 2.) Mac is Mac, and 3.) if I died last night, the chances of people wanting heads in (Alison/Mac/Boq/SPF) would have skyrocketed. If I'm right, at least two wolves are in that group above, so killing me would have been suicide.

1 is the precise reason why killing you yesterday would be the best time to do it. I don't joke around with my kills when I am scum tbh.

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

Like... the more I think about this... the more this is just so wrong it kind of has to be outing coming from a Boq-level player.

It is the correct play tbh and this is an argument I have done as town previously when my tunnellers are kept alive tbh.

I kill those who suspect me when they seem to lose momentum of me.

I keep thinking about this. Idk why but this interaction is just so off to me.

[DrWilgy]

For data sake:
Lily and Boq on me.

Porscha, Aro and Sean on Alison.

@Alison, I likely won't get to you till tomorrow, in the interim can you briefly describe your position. Why are you lead wagon, who should be the lead wagon and is there a wolf on you? Who. You often have a gravity so I think this inquiry is a good way for me to start while I try to figure out what I in a previous life saw in Aro's slot.

I was D1 counterwagon to a town flip. People wanted to resolve me D2 so they can do wagonomic analysis on the D1 wagons. Creature went over instead and flipped town, so now there is a strong sentiment that I have to go no matter what.

Alright and of your pushers who's the Wolf? Is the desire to yeet you warranted or unfounded? Was it warranted d1?

[staypositivefriend]

in general I would find it really helpful if @lucy and @Lilypetal dedicated some time today to talk with each other bcuz I am unsure what to make of your dynamic

[DrWilgy]

does anyone in this game know how to read drwilgy?

Quite a few have figured it out I think.

What do you make of me and my slot?

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone in this game know how to read drwilgy?

Quite a few have figured it out I think.

What do you make of me and my slot?

I remember you being significantly wolfier and more uncomfortable in the one wolfgame that ive seen from you, and in general your posts over the last 24 hours have solved a lot of concerns I had about neons slot (lack of solvieneee, awkward tone,etc)

[RondoDimBuckle]

[VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

[DrWilgy]

and i'm only obsessed with alison insofar as the entire game has revolved around her and she has been a constant source of conversation, but point taken. i intend to solve outside of alison for the rest of the day since she's clearly going to flip regardless of what i end up concluding about her anyway

[DrWilgy]

does anyone in this game know how to read drwilgy?

Quite a few have figured it out I think.

What do you make of me and my slot?

I remember you being significantly wolfier and more uncomfortable in the one wolfgame that ive seen from you, and in general your posts over the last 24 hours have solved a lot of concerns I had about neons slot (lack of solvieneee, awkward tone,etc)

I haven't rolled wolf in like half a year so I don't even remember which one we are referencing.

[Lilypetal]

@lucy

mom said we should talk

[staypositivefriend]

It was like one of my first games on the syndicate, maybe radiohead mafia?

[DrWilgy]

So I am at the top of page 72 and my strongest take is that arogame and Neon are a difference check.

Detail this to me. What is causing this and why?

[DrWilgy]

It was like one of my first games on the syndicate, maybe radiohead mafia?

All I remember from that game is being civ and wanting to yeet tutuu.

I should review older games I've slanked in. My game memory is pretty bad, it's mostly expelled from my head after it ends.

[arogame123]

Checking in to real time for a bit while I have time.

I see Dr Wilgy has stepped in for Neon.

[arogame123]

@arogame123 @Lilypetal
I'd be interested in hearing the Neon haters talk about their thoughts on Wilgy

I haven't read much yet since last night, so idk yet.

[DrWilgy]

Current thoughts:
Dreading the Mac review even though I should.

Boq and Seanzie have a weird dynamic.

Nook and Porscha have a weird dynamic.

SPF and Alison have a weird dynamic.

I think there is likely a wolf in SPF, Alison, Boq or Sean.

Forcing Boq vs Sean I feel would be interesting, but unknown if this is wise.

Solving the wagonomics of Alison could crack the game open, but I doubt it. Lucy, Rondo, Nook aren't slots that I personally would be able to solve even if Alison flipped W.

A rough game it is.

[arogame123]

@RondoDimBuckle Did you explain why you thought my reads were middle of the run when you had the exact same tier/list as I did?

[arogame123]

Current thoughts:
Dreading the Mac review even though I should.

Boq and Seanzie have a weird dynamic.

Nook and Porscha have a weird dynamic.

SPF and Alison have a weird dynamic.

I think there is likely a wolf in SPF, Alison, Boq or Sean.

Forcing Boq vs Sean I feel would be interesting, but unknown if this is wise.

Solving the wagonomics of Alison could crack the game open, but I doubt it. Lucy, Rondo, Nook aren't slots that I personally would be able to solve even if Alison flipped W.

A rough game it is.

Just curious, it seems like you have been questioning around and trying to get some thoughts going.

What are your current thoughts on me? I see you have voted me alongside Alison lol

[arogame123]

i'm on my way to another concert but i'll be around later tonight/some of tomorrow to talk and try to piece the game together

one piece of the game hehe

[DrWilgy]

Current thoughts:
Dreading the Mac review even though I should.

Boq and Seanzie have a weird dynamic.

Nook and Porscha have a weird dynamic.

SPF and Alison have a weird dynamic.

I think there is likely a wolf in SPF, Alison, Boq or Sean.

Forcing Boq vs Sean I feel would be interesting, but unknown if this is wise.

Solving the wagonomics of Alison could crack the game open, but I doubt it. Lucy, Rondo, Nook aren't slots that I personally would be able to solve even if Alison flipped W.

A rough game it is.

Just curious, it seems like you have been questioning around and trying to get some thoughts going.

What are your current thoughts on me? I see you have voted me alongside Alison lol

My legacy believes you to be a wolf and that's about it.

As it stands I'll likely not vote your slot untill I obtain more data.

[arogame123]

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

SPF has been steadily trending down after I initially townread her at the start of the day and this is a big part of why. SPF has consistently suspected me whenever she is town, regardless of my alignment unless/until I bury a couple of wolves. Her nearly paranoia free stance on me this game reeks of TMI and reeks of mafia wanting to drag me to endgame where I am a free misexe. I was particularly pinged by her argument that I should be forgiven for my results this game when she is usually very strict on reading me by results especially after last game where it is what led her to concluding I am mafia despite townreading my play.

can you link that?
I do remember the warrior stuff

I can't search on MU because I'm banned lol.

I think it was around Day 4? And she said she suspected me because the first three days have been green flips and she doesn't expect that from town Alison. It's actually even worse because she was totally fine with suspecting me there where 2 of the townies were literally afk 0 posters and 1 modkilled himself and she STILL was strictly reading me by results. Which suggests that it is an Alison reading principle she holds in strong regard and would not lightly let go of it here.

but if you understand me as a player, you should also be aware that there is nothing more that i hate in mafia games than policy chopping, or chopping people for "information" and not because you actually think they are going to flip mafia

on d1, you were voted by my POE for vague and unclear reasons, which made it logical for me to defend you even though i wasn't sure about your alignment

on d2, you were voted almost exclusively because of "policy" and because "alison needs to be resolved" and not because of any solid reasons, which also made it easy to defend you

on d3, you are once again being voted mainly for "policy" reasons, and the way the rest of the game has treated you has been difficult for me to wrap my head around, but the fact remains that you don't have any pelts to your name and that you are continuing to push a view of the game that is incorrect. for all of these reasons, i am not resisting the chop on you and i am not going to throw a fit about you dying today

so, can you show me at what point during this game i should have been more paranoid about you? do you really think that me not pushing you on d1 or d2 means that i didn't have any paranoia or uncertainty about your alignment?

SPF, idk about others, but I have made it clear that my suspicions and scum reads on Alison haven't just persisted from a "policy" perspective, but in addition to some of their reads/progressions on certain players, as well as if you want to include "pelts," that is why I want to kill Alison the most today.

If you have a slight tl on Alison and feel that you don't want to kill her today, then who would you want to kill SPF?

I see you have been throwing around paranoi on some slots, so where does that leave your POE for today?