Well, we'll agree to disagree and I' will most likely vote Epig or youthellama73 wrote:Look, you do what you want. I am using my night power to try to complete my monopoly and I think others would be foolish not to do so as well. The naive one or two people who follow this strategy will be left as a civ team of one or two people without BTSC. That's what's going to happen. I am just telling the truth and not trying to gin up support for a strategy that goes against human nature and leaves the credulous out to dry. I will also be voting for one of the supporters of the strategy, most likely Long Con at this point.FZ. wrote:There is no way to verify, but why should it matter to you if you're a civ who doesn't agree with this strategy? If anyone should care about not following the strategy it's the civs who don't want the other civs to look for their sets. So, the fact you're fighting for this so strongly makes me think you have a sinister agendathellama73 wrote:Communication doesn't really make a difference if there's no way to verify compliance or detect cheating, which there isn't here.FZ. wrote:Nash is right when the players can't communicate and decide on the strategy together...at least if I remember correctly, that is
I am never scared. I am fearless. But even if I was scared, it wouldn't alter the irrefutibility of my logic.FZ. wrote:llama, are you really against this from a civ point of view, or are you scared?
Monopoly Mafia [GAME OVER]
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
- thellama73
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Or maybe I'll vote for MP for not showing up to drop some accountant knowledge on y'all.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
And by the way, it's not like I play most games with BTSC...so what's another one?
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
So, say S~V~S (random name) gets lynched today, and she ends up being St Charles Place. Lorab wins the bid and gets St Charles place.
Next lynch, we assume that Lorab won the bid because she is States Ave or Virginia Ave, and we lynch her on Day 2 for trying to get a colour group together.
Is there another scenario anyone has (names aside) for how this is going to go? Is everyone going to be scared to bid for a lynched player's property? What happens to that property if no one bids on it?
Next lynch, we assume that Lorab won the bid because she is States Ave or Virginia Ave, and we lynch her on Day 2 for trying to get a colour group together.
Is there another scenario anyone has (names aside) for how this is going to go? Is everyone going to be scared to bid for a lynched player's property? What happens to that property if no one bids on it?
- thellama73
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
That's what I'm thinking. Why would someone bid on any property if it's going to get them a higher chance of being lynched? Just to prevent others from doing it? Sounds silly to meLong Con wrote:So, say S~V~S (random name) gets lynched today, and she ends up being St Charles Place. Lorab wins the bid and gets St Charles place.
Next lynch, we assume that Lorab won the bid because she is States Ave or Virginia Ave, and we lynch her on Day 2 for trying to get a colour group together.
Is there another scenario anyone has (names aside) for how this is going to go? Is everyone going to be scared to bid for a lynched player's property? What happens to that property if no one bids on it?
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
But if someone gains a set, they become mafia themselves, don't they?thellama73 wrote:LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
They dont have a kill, at least as far as i can tell.FZ. wrote:But if someone gains a set, they become mafia themselves, don't they?thellama73 wrote:LC, if we try to lynch people for trying to get color groups together at this early stage in the game, we are never going to get the railroads and the utilities, who I still perceive as the real enemies.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Spoiler: show
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I do understand that, but saying "Nash equilibrium" doesn't prove that it's in the civilians best interests to find their partners. Our best move is yet to be established.thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
Right! And the more players stay civ, the stronger our lynch power is.I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
ZEPPELIN RULES! \o/
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
The fact that there's no way to detect cheaters doesn't mean we can't do it. If we all agree that ideally, not forming BTSC is better for the civvies, then we don't need to find cheaters because that's not our worry.FZ. wrote:Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
So, we should rely on the Mafias to kill players who win lynched property bids? It does seem to be in their interest to prevent colour groups from forming. What happens to the property of nightkilled players? Do they go up for auction as well?
I'm just trying to see a scenario where bidding on a property would benefit a person, when death is the most likely outcome.
I'm just trying to see a scenario where bidding on a property would benefit a person, when death is the most likely outcome.
- thellama73
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I don't understand your point.FZ. wrote:Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
I am distressed at the direction this thread has gone. I am barely paying attention to this game with all the other stuff I have going on, and it took me exactly two seconds to see why the "civs ignore all the gifts the host has given you" strategy is terrible. I can't believe how easily the flock is being led into bad decisions.
Look, building hotels is the only way we can get money (barring a few chance cards and an occasional pass go.) The Mafia have ample ability to make money and use it to buy property and other goodies, while at the same time depleting our money. If we run out of money, we die. This strategy hands victory to the railroads and utilities. Please think about it for two seconds before posting a reactionary NO U response. You, MM, Long Con, and Keys are working on behalf of the baddies with this sort of talk.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
- thellama73
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
It is better for the individual to have BTSC than not to have BSTC.keys56000000000 wrote:I do understand that, but saying "Nash equilibrium" doesn't prove that it's in the civilians best interests to find their partners. Our best move is yet to be established.thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
It is better for the individual to be able to build hotels and make money, than not to be able to do that.
It is better for the individual not to be one of a handful who did not bother to try to find their teammates, facing a series of LMS teams in addition to baddies.
To me, it is abundantly clear that civvies who neglect to find their partners are acting against their own interests.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
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- thellama73
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I have one final thing to say on the subject and I'll stop. To any civvies considering not finding your teammates: don't forget about money. Without a team, you cannot generate reliable income streams. Your money will slowly be drained away from you and, if the mafia doesn't kill you, you will go bankrupt and you will die. Factor that into your decision on whether to use your night power.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
You keep saying "we", but if you go the way you want to go, there is no we.thellama73 wrote:I don't understand your point.FZ. wrote:Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
I am distressed at the direction this thread has gone. I am barely paying attention to this game with all the other stuff I have going on, and it took me exactly two seconds to see why the "civs ignore all the gifts the host has given you" strategy is terrible. I can't believe how easily the flock is being led into bad decisions.
Look, building hotels is the only way we can get money (barring a few chance cards and an occasional pass go.) The Mafia have ample ability to make money and use it to buy property and other goodies, while at the same time depleting our money. If we run out of money, we die. This strategy hands victory to the railroads and utilities. Please think about it for two seconds before posting a reactionary NO U response. You, MM, Long Con, and Keys are working on behalf of the baddies with this sort of talk.
Depends. Is it better to be a civilian with a BTSC partner than a lone civ? Yes. Is it better to be a 2-man indy team against the mafia and the civs? Maybe not.It is better for the individual to have BTSC than not to have BSTC.
I guess insofar as they have a cushion against dying, yes, this is probably true. Once hotels are up, poor civvies are running the gauntlet.It is better for the individual to be able to build hotels and make money, than not to be able to do that.
I doubt that many people will find their partners. You get one shot per night and there's 28 players. Maybe one or two sets will form, if everyone searched. I remained entirely unconvinced that civs will find themselves surrounded by teams.It is better for the individual not to be one of a handful who did not bother to try to find their teammates, facing a series of LMS teams in addition to baddies.
There's only 6 baddies. All we have to do is lynch them before we run out of money. You might find that when you're in your team against the rest of us, that hotel isn't enough to win it. Maybe civs will get lucky and not land on it.To me, it is abundantly clear that civvies who neglect to find their partners are acting against their own interests.
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- birdwithteeth11
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Best. Response. Ever.Epignosis wrote:Ca$h rule$ everything around me.Elohcin wrote:you gonna keep up he $$$$$ all game Epi?Epignosis wrote:I'll make $ure you get an extra die.keys56000000000 wrote:Yeah make it rain!
$60 on the extra die role power!
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Llama, I'd be lying if I said I didn't think you were making a good case, but the mafia also has the NK. Civs are doomed regardless, we're all racing against the clock to lynch the bad guys.
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- birdwithteeth11
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Yeah, that's honestly what I'm leaning towards. I think if we don't try to merge and gain BTSC with other civs, then the baddies would have an easier job picking us off one by one. Especially the utilities, who can learn peoples' roles from landing on those two respective spaces.Degobunny wrote:Okay this is seriously frustrating. One more time...I like the option to bid on powers, and no to unions. We all know the railroads and utilities will manipulate it all anyway.
So yeah, even though it might turn into a free-for-all bloodbath, I'd rather go for trying to find BTSC over sticking with no BTSC for anyone. Because information is the best friend of the civs.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Sadly, this is kind of true.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, I'd be lying if I said I didn't think you were making a good case, but the mafia also has the NK. Civs are doomed regardless, we're all racing against the clock to lynch the bad guys.
At minimum, if we have a perfect lynch record, we will lose six people to NKs plus whoever manages to run out their money by then. The odds are certainly not in our favor.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
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- Long Con
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Ok, Llama, I'll sit back and see how it goes. I think it's inevitable that people who bid on properties will be killed, and I'd like someone to convince me that that's not the case. That's all. I want to play this game to its full fun potential, and the way I see it, this is a BIG roadblock in the way of that. Of course I want to find my colour group and start building and making lots of money, that sounds fun. Just like the board game! Which is fun! Except in the board game, people don't vote you out for becoming successful, and baddies don't kill you for becoming successful, and everyone is on their own team to begin with.
Maybe if we all agree to be cool and NOT go after players who try to acquire more property? Is that something that can be? What does everyone think?
Maybe if we all agree to be cool and NOT go after players who try to acquire more property? Is that something that can be? What does everyone think?
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Well, if that's the way the cookie's gonna crumble, I see no reason to keep posting. See y'all in the funnies.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
At this point I am most leery of people implying that those who disagree with their strategy of not searching are bad. I think that keeping the civvies as unempowered vanillas with no earning ability plays right into the hands of the rails/utilities.
Even the implication that playing the game within its design is somehow "cheating" feels very off to me.
I also play mafia for fun as much as for wins, and actually playing seems mor fun to me
Even the implication that playing the game within its design is somehow "cheating" feels very off to me.
I also play mafia for fun as much as for wins, and actually playing seems mor fun to me
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I'll take a stab at convincing you.Long Con wrote:Ok, Llama, I'll sit back and see how it goes. I think it's inevitable that people who bid on properties will be killed, and I'd like someone to convince me that that's not the case.
Maybe if we all agree to be cool and NOT go after players who try to acquire more property? Is that something that can be? What does everyone think?
1. Civvies have more of an incentive to acquire property to complete their sets than baddies.
2. People who spend money on property are more likely to go bankrupt and die anyway
3. Even if someone completes a set, they are less of a thread than the mafia, because they cannot actively kill.
4. Opportunity cost. Every time we lynch someone who is trying to complete their set, we COULD have lynched a baddie instead.
Therefore, I think it's a mistake to lynch people JUST because they acquire property.
That being said, the baddies will read this, and will probably have more money than us, so they may try to buy up the property to avoid suspicion. All I'm advocating is cases that do not DEPEND on the fact that someone bought property.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I don't think anyone was accusing anyone of actually cheating. There was a conversation about nobody finding their partners, and someone pointed out that people will "cheat" and still try to find them. Niot that that actual dispicable cheating is or was or will occur.S~V~S wrote:At this point I am most leery of people implying that those who disagree with their strategy of not searching are bad. I think that keeping the civvies as unempowered vanillas with no earning ability plays right into the hands of the rails/utilities.
Even the implication that playing the game within its design is somehow "cheating" feels very off to me.
And again, you talk about empowering civilians. You cease to be a civilian once you are empowered. That's the whole point. This game collapses when it becomes a free-for-all. THere'd be no point in posting.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Good point. I want to be clear on this. When I used the word "cheat" I meant "covertly defect from the no searching strategy." In other words, saying "Yes, I agree not to search for my partners" but then secretly doing it anyway. I in no way was trying to imply that anyone would be cheating with respect to the rules of Boo's game or the rules of the Syndicate.keys56000000000 wrote: I don't think anyone was accusing anyone of actually cheating. There was a conversation about nobody finding their partners, and someone pointed out that people will "cheat" and still try to find them. Niot that that actual dispicable cheating is or was or will occur.
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Wouldn't people still be posting because it's in everyone's interest to try and find and lynch the baddies?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Spoiler: show
- birdwithteeth11
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
There are 2 reasons I can see Epig doing this:FZ. wrote:I'm going to bed. Voting Epi for using so much money.
1) He is Electric Company, and is going for it because he won $190 last night. And doesn't mind spending half his money because of this.
2) He's just being aggressive because he feels like it.
I'm leaning towards #2 for now with no other information to go off of this though.
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Once you're in a team, you are the baddies.juliets wrote:Wouldn't people still be posting because it's in everyone's interest to try and find and lynch the baddies?
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Keys I think it likely that only one or two, maybe three groups will complete their sets.
Searching is a very haphazard way to form teams and i believe most of us will remain vanilla civs .
Why would this make you want to stop posting?
Searching is a very haphazard way to form teams and i believe most of us will remain vanilla civs .
Why would this make you want to stop posting?
Skip softly, my moonbeams, for I have heard tell
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
No you're not. You don't have a kill.keys56000000000 wrote:Once you're in a team, you are the baddies.juliets wrote:Wouldn't people still be posting because it's in everyone's interest to try and find and lynch the baddies?
Epignosis wrote:If llama is good, it means we exist in a universe in which multitasking llama can call out the first of two mafia while simultaneously calling out two civilians.
I don't want to live in that universe.
Spoiler: show
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
It doe$n't work.Elohcin wrote:What?! You better just be checkin' the changeable vote mechanismEpignosis wrote:A$ I did today in real life, I voted.
Or that I have bad credit and poor $pending habit$.FZ. wrote:So, the fact Epig used so much money for the bid, makes me think he's EC who got 190$ which is probably be where my vote will go
Ju$t like real politic$!FZ. wrote:I'm going to bed. Voting Epi for using so much money.
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- birdwithteeth11
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.
1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.
2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.
Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.
2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.
Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I agree, SVS, only 1 or 2 teams would likely complete their sets. It might be good being in a set if the civilian population is hit hard. It might suck being one of those only sets if the civs are successful against the mafia.
Boo says you can't win with the civs. I agree that the team with the NK takes priority, but if civs can't win with you, they need to lynch you.thellama73 wrote:No you're not. You don't have a kill.keys56000000000 wrote:Once you're in a team, you are the baddies.juliets wrote:Wouldn't people still be posting because it's in everyone's interest to try and find and lynch the baddies?
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- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
That's cool, you can go ahead and do that and if you eliminate the mafia, awesome. But then y'know you are next to be lynched, right? It'll be obvious that you're in a set.birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.
1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.
2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.
Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
ZEPPELIN RULES! \o/
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Good point. This all really comes down to trust or like I said before blind faith.thellama73 wrote:You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
What do you mean by set. isn't everyone technically in a potential set?keys56000000000 wrote:That's cool, you can go ahead and do that and if you eliminate the mafia, awesome. But then y'know you are next to be lynched, right? It'll be obvious that you're in a set.birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.
1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.
2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.
Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
- keys56000000000
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Sorry Dego, yes everyone is in a set, I meant the team that is formed when a set is united. Boo said that they cannot win with the civs and that the civs cannot win with them, so they must be lynched at some stage.Degobunny wrote:What do you mean by set. isn't everyone technically in a potential set?keys56000000000 wrote:That's cool, you can go ahead and do that and if you eliminate the mafia, awesome. But then y'know you are next to be lynched, right? It'll be obvious that you're in a set.birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.
1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.
2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.
Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
ZEPPELIN RULES! \o/
- birdwithteeth11
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Not necessarily. Not if I don't find any of my teammates, or they don't find me. Then I would still be a vanilla civ.keys56000000000 wrote:That's cool, you can go ahead and do that and if you eliminate the mafia, awesome. But then y'know you are next to be lynched, right? It'll be obvious that you're in a set.birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.
1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.
2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.
Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
What bothers me about your train of thought isn't so much the idea, but that it feels like you're trying to decide which way we should play the game. And that anyone who disagrees with you is bad and should die. I disagree with your idea, but that doesn't necessarily mean I find you bad.
Just because X is true, doesn't mean Y is true.
- birdwithteeth11
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Alright. I was re-reading Page 1, and I have a question for the host:
@Boo: It says that, "Civvies that do establish full BTSC (meaning they either find all of their set while everyone is alive, or they acquire the necessary cards by buying them)..." So by that logic, if one set gains full BTSC, could they continue to search for other full sets, and possible gain BTSC with them too? Or is this only possible by purchasing other cards from dead players?
@Boo: It says that, "Civvies that do establish full BTSC (meaning they either find all of their set while everyone is alive, or they acquire the necessary cards by buying them)..." So by that logic, if one set gains full BTSC, could they continue to search for other full sets, and possible gain BTSC with them too? Or is this only possible by purchasing other cards from dead players?
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Wow this is confusing already! Im pretty much voting Epignosis for now because:
A) His money throwing down scares me that he has so much if he is bad this early
B)His threat to come at him to scare us.
He is a very good player, and I think he is trying to scare us to not vote him. I have nothing else this early but Im confident in voting him.
votes Epignosis
A) His money throwing down scares me that he has so much if he is bad this early
B)His threat to come at him to scare us.
He is a very good player, and I think he is trying to scare us to not vote him. I have nothing else this early but Im confident in voting him.
votes Epignosis
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
For all the three-property sets... a huge advantage to finding ONE of your two partners is that you get to know, and possibly vouch, for your still-Civvie teammate. This makes the dart-in-the-dark approach a bit less haphazard. A baddie can't even phony-vouch for a Civvie like they might in a regular Mafia game, because the only vouches that can exist are most likely the colour-group paired people.
Admittedly, two together is a Civvie benefit, while three together is a Civvie loss... but there it is. Two together is vastly better for the Civvies than everyone staying single.
Admittedly, two together is a Civvie benefit, while three together is a Civvie loss... but there it is. Two together is vastly better for the Civvies than everyone staying single.
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Ah! FINALLY! Sorry for being absent - catching up!
I see discussion of whether or not Civs should find other Civs and form their groups, and the entire time I'm shouting at my computer (yes, alone, in my apartment, with the cat staring at me like I'm crazy) "BUT THIS IS CAPITALISM AND MONOPOLY what are you doing telling us not to search??" So, as others have said, I am definitely not inclined to not complete my nightly search. It would really seem to take half the fun out of the mechanics of this game that I'm desperately trying to understand (but I think I have it. We'll see).
Oh that note, I have no idea who to vote for. But I thought I'd check in
I see discussion of whether or not Civs should find other Civs and form their groups, and the entire time I'm shouting at my computer (yes, alone, in my apartment, with the cat staring at me like I'm crazy) "BUT THIS IS CAPITALISM AND MONOPOLY what are you doing telling us not to search??" So, as others have said, I am definitely not inclined to not complete my nightly search. It would really seem to take half the fun out of the mechanics of this game that I'm desperately trying to understand (but I think I have it. We'll see).
Oh that note, I have no idea who to vote for. But I thought I'd check in
Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
Confidence on the fir$t day. I love it!Boogs wrote:Wow this is confusing already! Im pretty much voting Epignosis for now because:
A) His money throwing down scares me that he has so much if he is bad this early
B)His threat to come at him to scare us.
He is a very good player, and I think he is trying to scare us to not vote him. I have nothing else this early but Im confident in voting him.
votes Epignosis
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
$orry.Long Con wrote:The dollar sign thing is really annoying, Epig.
Go ahead and vote for me. I know you're $eeking a rea$on to do it.
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- nijuukyugou
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Re: Monopoly Mafia [Day 1]
I find it rather amusing, mostly because I know it's gotta be a pain in the ass to do it every time.Long Con wrote:The dollar sign thing is really annoying, Epig.
Excuse me. A$$.