[Endgame] Masters of the Universe Mafia

[timmer]

I think Dom is a good place to look for today's lynch,tbh.

As to the Horde... they've played well. I think they have kept out of things for the most part, but I also like the idea that some of the absent players may be on that team.

And as to the current hot topics du jour... Both MP and LT seem very sure of themselves about Snow Dog. Frankly, I've seen a lot of both baddie LT and civvie LT in the last few months, and I'm leaning towards supporting her on this one. MP isn't offcially on my "probably baddie" list just yet, but he's getting quite controlling and aggressive, which worries me.

While Dom is a safe bet for the lynch, a Snow Dog lynch would likely be good as well as it would also serve to clarify the positions of severals players in this game.

[Tangrowth]

MP - you are seriously making me nervous.

I'm seriously freaked out because I know Snow Dog isn't bad, so I don't get how it's possible you could be so sure unless your information is wrong, and the idea of that is messed up. I mean, of anyone except myself, I know he's not bad. And I also nearly as strongly know you're not bad. So I don't get it. Does this make sense to you?

^Uh oh, looks like I was wrong.. only 1 missing PM here.. >.>

Couldn't this mean at least Ishar or the_untamed is bad then... right?

Seriously, does anyone have any reason to trust either of these players even though they've been MIA? I know we have essentially zilch to go off of so I'm trying to see what happens here because, if Robert's not going to modkill either of these people, it's very possible one (but I doubt both, but I guess that's possible too) of these people is a baddie.

I think Dom is a good place to look for today's lynch,tbh.

As to the Horde... they've played well. I think they have kept out of things for the most part, but I also like the idea that some of the absent players may be on that team.

And as to the current hot topics du jour... Both MP and LT seem very sure of themselves about Snow Dog. Frankly, I've seen a lot of both baddie LT and civvie LT in the last few months, and I'm leaning towards supporting her on this one. MP isn't offcially on my "probably baddie" list just yet, but he's getting quite controlling and aggressive, which worries me.

While Dom is a safe bet for the lynch, a Snow Dog lynch would likely be good as well as it would also serve to clarify the positions of severals players in this game.

I agree with Dom being a good choice, but don't you think he's Snake Mountain? I mean, I'd be for a Dom lynch since we pretty much know he's bad at this point, but I'd rather uncover a Horde first, especially since Snake Mountain is obviously not going to win this game. Or they seem to have a very low probability at this point.

I'm not at all arguing LT isn't seeming civvie here since I agree she's still seeming civvie and she has all game. I just don't get why she's gunning after Snow Dog though. I'm not trying to be controlling and aggressive; I am merely stating the obvious (for me, anyway) that a Snow Dog lynch is a wrong way to go, period. Same with a MP lynch, naturally. Lol.

If you haven't noticed, every time Snow Dog has been brought up this game, I have brushed off the suspicions, and there's a reason for that. I didn't want to be so direct, but given how strongly the thread was coming against him, I felt I had to try and make my point absolutely clear. We've done a fantastic job this game and I don't want The Horde to push us in the wrong direction.

That, and, frankly this whole day period, and even since the He-Man lynch, I've been feeling somewhat paranoid. In a game with people vouching for each other, you have to be careful. Occam's razor and all that, I'm a big supporter of, but it never hurts to be logically questionable of assumptions. I've seen enough mafia games where the civvies lost because they trusted someone they shouldn't have; granted, that doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen. All of that being said, I have no reason to believe LT or anyone else I have strongly suspected is civvie to not be civvie. I am wondering a bit on BF given just the He-Man circumstantial evidence, but I still don't think so.

[Tangrowth]

Speaking of Elohcin, what do people think of her? I had a role in mind but am not sure, and since BF brought her up, I realize she hasn't been discussed much. I want to see if there's reason to trust her or not.

Same with DP, really. I remember being pinged by DP a few times earlier in the game, but then he made me feel a bit better, and now he's kind of vanished again.

I still think DFaraday might be a baddie. I have not changed my mind regarding that at all. Looking at my spreadsheet, I realize there's maybe 11 people that range from I have no clue to I thought I had some idea but not sure? The rest I would like to believe still make sense.

[indiglo]

I think Dom is a good place to look for today's lynch,tbh.

As to the Horde... they've played well. I think they have kept out of things for the most part, but I also like the idea that some of the absent players may be on that team.

And as to the current hot topics du jour... Both MP and LT seem very sure of themselves about Snow Dog. Frankly, I've seen a lot of both baddie LT and civvie LT in the last few months, and I'm leaning towards supporting her on this one. MP isn't offcially on my "probably baddie" list just yet, but he's getting quite controlling and aggressive, which worries me.

While Dom is a safe bet for the lynch, a Snow Dog lynch would likely be good as well as it would also serve to clarify the positions of severals players in this game.

So you would be more comfortable with a Snow Dog lynch today (for clarification purposes) over an MP lynch today (for clarification purposes)? Even though Snow Dog is insanified and taking into consideration everything MP is saying?

[blindfaeth]

Anyone who has a second, I'd appreciate feedback on opinions of these dead players:

spacedaisy
vompatti
russtifinko
allalongtheboardwalk
llama

basically, everyone dead without a role attached at their hip.

[timmer]

So you would be more comfortable with a Snow Dog lynch today (for clarification purposes) over an MP lynch today (for clarification purposes)? Even though Snow Dog is insanified and taking into consideration everything MP is saying?

Well first, to be clear, the safest chance at getting a baddie lynched today is Dom, period.

But for the sake of argument, here is what I am seeing. LT and MP7 are both outstanding longtime players. They bot hknow how to handle info-type roles, and they both know the perils and traps that can befall them, i.e. that targets can get switched around, and stuff like that.

LT is saying unequivocally that Snow Dog is bad.
MP7 is saying unequivocally that Snow Dog is good.

I trust them both to know how to handle their roles and to not say such statements if their actions or whatever may have been tampered with. Thus, one of them is lying. If Snow Dog is good, then LT is lying. if snow Dog is bad, then MP7 is lying.

If Snow Dog is lynched, either way we catch a lying baddie. If LT is lying, she's caught the moment Snow Dog is lynched. if MP7 is lying, then he is caught the moment his teammate Snow Dog is lynched.

The main reason I'm interested in all of this is that i think it cracks open the Horde.

Dom feels more Snake Mountain to me.

Cracking open the Horde, and finally getting some information on them is huge. Both LT and MP7 have posted a lot, and thus figuring out which is Horde, and I strongly believe one must be at this point, is very important. their teammates will have supported them throughout the game, etc.

But the key to it all is Snow Dog. And I've never been one to give someone a pass due to insanification. My feelings toward Snow Dog have nothing to do with what he has or will say, anyway, it's more the circumstance.

[timmer]

Furthur to all of that... MP has seemed pretty trustworthy in the game so far, right? So if he and Snow Dog are bad, I could see him try this up-front gambit. It's aggressive, it's ballsy, it's totally something he would do.

But if its the other way around, and LT is bad, what's the motivation here? To save Dom? So LT is Dom's teammate and decided to say fuck it and slag Snow Dog in a "I've got info hint hint" way? It would be doomed to backfire. As soom as Snow Dog flips civvie, both LT and Dom would be toast. That team is already pretty decimated, so why throw the rest of the game away? I don't see it.

To me, the only roles in a position to be ballsy right now are Horde roles, since they have run such a tight ship. And they had no reason to do anything today but go along with the flow and let Dom be lynched. Thus, aggressive attacking = not Horde. Aggressive defending, however = Horde. Thus, Snow Dog, and MP7 are more likely to be Horde than LT is. LT, however, cannot be ruled out as Snake Mountain. While I can't understand the move if she is Dom's partner, I guess it has to be seen as possible.

[blindfaeth]

Idk, I'm going to bed after this post, my head hurts. There is not room for all these civvies on my spreadsheet, I'll tell you that for sure.

Personally, I was leaning towards LT is hexed to vote for Snow Dog today. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't really recall her bring up suspicion of him previously. Additionally, she's not really pursuing his lynch very hard like she did BWT, I'm more given the impression that she's trying to come up with a good excuse to vote that way this lynch. I think what you're seeing as an info drop from LT could possibly be an attempt to get our attention?

In any case, I've seen LT act this way before even when she hasn't had info. I think she is just really confident in her abilities sometimes tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.

Though in the end I think I might have to agree that someone is definitely lying, there are too many people I want to say are civvie and not enough roles on my spreadsheet.

I'm not really sure what MP was trying to hint at. TBH I think he left it open-ended enough that we could interpret it several ways, which kind of makes me uneasy. Since that way, if you deduce he's not one role then theres the tendency to say "oh then he must be the other". I don't think it necessarily follows logically that if MP is bad Snow Dog has to be his teammate. It is definitely a possibility, I won't argue that. But he could be pretending to claim a rolecheck role and previously checked SD for example. Or setting him up in the event of his lynch.

Sorry, amuse me, I'm playing devil's advocate here. Confused BF is confused.

All in all despite the distractions I think I still feel most comfortable with a Dom lynch, what is everyone else thinking?

[timmer]

That's an excellent point. It's relatively easy to try to fake BTSC connections in this game, because there are a lot of them out there, and we haven't seen any deaths from any of the groupings yet I don't think.

so yeah, MP7 can suggest BTSC, and, looking at the roles, if the Mekaneck and Buzz-Off duo are wondering about it, they can just think " oh well he must be part of the Glimmer-Bow-Razz group, or the Teela/Orko group". There would be no reason for a civ with BTSC to think someone else suggesting BTSC was a lying baddie, thus it's potentially a smart play.

[indiglo]

Nice analyses and excellent points made.

I will look forward to furthering our discussion and hearing more input. I'll just continue simmering on this, fortunately we still have plenty of time, but I agree Timmer - I do think we're on the verge of cracking the Horde open. And I'm more inclined to do that this go 'round - especially with that role who becomes more powerful as the game goes on.

[DFaraday]

So you would be more comfortable with a Snow Dog lynch today (for clarification purposes) over an MP lynch today (for clarification purposes)? Even though Snow Dog is insanified and taking into consideration everything MP is saying?

Well first, to be clear, the safest chance at getting a baddie lynched today is Dom, period.

But for the sake of argument, here is what I am seeing. LT and MP7 are both outstanding longtime players. They bot hknow how to handle info-type roles, and they both know the perils and traps that can befall them, i.e. that targets can get switched around, and stuff like that.

LT is saying unequivocally that Snow Dog is bad.
MP7 is saying unequivocally that Snow Dog is good.

I trust them both to know how to handle their roles and to not say such statements if their actions or whatever may have been tampered with. Thus, one of them is lying. If Snow Dog is good, then LT is lying. if snow Dog is bad, then MP7 is lying.

If Snow Dog is lynched, either way we catch a lying baddie. If LT is lying, she's caught the moment Snow Dog is lynched. if MP7 is lying, then he is caught the moment his teammate Snow Dog is lynched.

The main reason I'm interested in all of this is that i think it cracks open the Horde.

Dom feels more Snake Mountain to me.

Cracking open the Horde, and finally getting some information on them is huge. Both LT and MP7 have posted a lot, and thus figuring out which is Horde, and I strongly believe one must be at this point, is very important. their teammates will have supported them throughout the game, etc.

But the key to it all is Snow Dog. And I've never been one to give someone a pass due to insanification. My feelings toward Snow Dog have nothing to do with what he has or will say, anyway, it's more the circumstance.

Timmer does seem to be making the most sense here. Unless there's some hexing shenanigans or something going on, one of them has to be straight-up lying.

But I also agree that Dom is the safest option, and I do tend to go for safe options (except in my choice of vehicle ).

[Elohcin]

Speaking of Elohcin, what do people think of her? I had a role in mind but am not sure, and since BF brought her up, I realize she hasn't been discussed much. I want to see if there's reason to trust her or not.

Same with DP, really. I remember being pinged by DP a few times earlier in the game, but then he made me feel a bit better, and now he's kind of vanished again.

I still think DFaraday might be a baddie. I have not changed my mind regarding that at all. Looking at my spreadsheet, I realize there's maybe 11 people that range from I have no clue to I thought I had some idea but not sure? The rest I would like to believe still make sense.

I'm a civvie with a busy "real" life MP. Also, this is my first Mafia game, so I have been just getting my feet wet, not posting unless I am almost sure that what I have to say is true and not just speculation. That said, I am not sure about YOU I read you civvie at first and still often do, but there is a gut feeling, an intuition that I cannot seem to ignore. I believe you may be Snake Mountain. Don't use me to deflect attention from you.

[LittleTiger]

Furthur to all of that... MP has seemed pretty trustworthy in the game so far, right? So if he and Snow Dog are bad, I could see him try this up-front gambit. It's aggressive, it's ballsy, it's totally something he would do.

But if its the other way around, and LT is bad, what's the motivation here? To save Dom? So LT is Dom's teammate and decided to say fuck it and slag Snow Dog in a "I've got info hint hint" way? It would be doomed to backfire. As soom as Snow Dog flips civvie, both LT and Dom would be toast. That team is already pretty decimated, so why throw the rest of the game away? I don't see it.

To me, the only roles in a position to be ballsy right now are Horde roles, since they have run such a tight ship. And they had no reason to do anything today but go along with the flow and let Dom be lynched. Thus, aggressive attacking = not Horde. Aggressive defending, however = Horde. Thus, Snow Dog, and MP7 are more likely to be Horde than LT is. LT, however, cannot be ruled out as Snake Mountain. While I can't understand the move if she is Dom's partner, I guess it has to be seen as possible.

I am not Snake Mountain. Also, considering I led the effort to get Dom lynched in the first place, how does that square with your theory that I am trying to save Dom? I believe I also ensured that boomslang got lynchified Given that Snake Mountain CLEARLY had a hand in saving Dom during the last lynch, it does make it seem that he is Snake Mountain. But, is he? Did Snake Mountain really save one of their own or were they trying to make it seem like they did with the added benefit of taking out a civvie role blocker and another day of lynching Dom? We also have the concern that each vote for Snake Mountain gives them more power, which makes them MORE likely to vote a team mate. Who knows how many lynch manipulation abilities they have by now!? This little twist makes it that much more difficult to pinpoint that team based on vote history as well as the fact that we run the risk of dismissing unanimous votes as a sign of not being on a team.

I also have not, at any point, "info dropped"; MP and others are implying that I am 100% sure about Snow Dog. I did think he was connected to BWT earlier when he posited that maybe BWT was in the same category as Timmer and therefore, shouldn't be lynched again. We see how that turned out. I haven't gone back through the thread to find evidence against Snow Dog just yet. I plan to do that today. Maybe I won't find anything... but Orson seemed pretty sure that he was likely bad. Given his role, he must have deduced something from his activities and I have had pings about Snow Dog on and off as well. Now, since MP is so desperately defending Snow Dog it makes me wonder just how tight of a ship Horde is running. I know MP doesn't want past games used against him, but the fact is, past games show us that he is MORE than capable of pulling the civvie gambit when he is, in fact, bad. Early in the game, his positions flipped and flopped so much that my head was spinning, but he finally settled in and has seemed quite civvie since. What does really concern me is how unconcerned he is about painting targets on civvies.

Timmer, how many players are left on Snake Mountain, do you think?

[LittleTiger]

I want to emphasize that I have felt MP to be civvie most of the game. I do think there could be some factors at work here that make things seem one way when they are actually another...

[Snow Dog]

Also good is very tasty! But if you want to.

[Tangrowth]

Snow Dog and I have a complex relationship this game that I am not permitted to disclose nor do I think it would be in my best interest to, which is why I didn't want to have to be so direct with my defending him but this lynch was seriously heading solely for a Snow Dog lynch. There is some serious behind the scenes crap going on this game, as you all are likely aware from these weird lynch switches, but there's even more than that. All I have to say is it would be incredibly disastrous to civvies if he gets lynched today. Let's not lynch him today. Or ever. I'm not kidding. I will not support a lynch of him today; we need to catch someone Horde. If any of you have even thought to trust me for a second this game, you need to believe me.

Anyone who has a second, I'd appreciate feedback on opinions of these dead players:

spacedaisy
vompatti
russtifinko
allalongtheboardwalk
llama

basically, everyone dead without a role attached at their hip.

SD = very likely Snake Mountain
Vomp = very likely civvie
Russ = likely civvie
AATB = likely civvie
llama = very likely civvie

That's what I had anyway. But I think I might be wrong about one of the civvie ones now.

I'm in your same predicament though with having too many civvies or civvie-leaning individuals pegged. Like I've said, something is going on here. Either someone is lying or we have a lot of low poster baddies or something.

Furthur to all of that... MP has seemed pretty trustworthy in the game so far, right? So if he and Snow Dog are bad, I could see him try this up-front gambit. It's aggressive, it's ballsy, it's totally something he would do.

But if its the other way around, and LT is bad, what's the motivation here? To save Dom? So LT is Dom's teammate and decided to say fuck it and slag Snow Dog in a "I've got info hint hint" way? It would be doomed to backfire. As soom as Snow Dog flips civvie, both LT and Dom would be toast. That team is already pretty decimated, so why throw the rest of the game away? I don't see it.

To me, the only roles in a position to be ballsy right now are Horde roles, since they have run such a tight ship. And they had no reason to do anything today but go along with the flow and let Dom be lynched. Thus, aggressive attacking = not Horde. Aggressive defending, however = Horde. Thus, Snow Dog, and MP7 are more likely to be Horde than LT is. LT, however, cannot be ruled out as Snake Mountain. While I can't understand the move if she is Dom's partner, I guess it has to be seen as possible.

I am not Snake Mountain. Also, considering I led the effort to get Dom lynched in the first place, how does that square with your theory that I am trying to save Dom? I believe I also ensured that boomslang got lynchified Given that Snake Mountain CLEARLY had a hand in saving Dom during the last lynch, it does make it seem that he is Snake Mountain. But, is he? Did Snake Mountain really save one of their own or were they trying to make it seem like they did with the added benefit of taking out a civvie role blocker and another day of lynching Dom? We also have the concern that each vote for Snake Mountain gives them more power, which makes them MORE likely to vote a team mate. Who knows how many lynch manipulation abilities they have by now!? This little twist makes it that much more difficult to pinpoint that team based on vote history as well as the fact that we run the risk of dismissing unanimous votes as a sign of not being on a team.

I also have not, at any point, "info dropped"; MP and others are implying that I am 100% sure about Snow Dog. I did think he was connected to BWT earlier when he posited that maybe BWT was in the same category as Timmer and therefore, shouldn't be lynched again. We see how that turned out. I haven't gone back through the thread to find evidence against Snow Dog just yet. I plan to do that today. Maybe I won't find anything... but Orson seemed pretty sure that he was likely bad. Given his role, he must have deduced something from his activities and I have had pings about Snow Dog on and off as well. Now, since MP is so desperately defending Snow Dog it makes me wonder just how tight of a ship Horde is running. I know MP doesn't want past games used against him, but the fact is, past games show us that he is MORE than capable of pulling the civvie gambit when he is, in fact, bad. Early in the game, his positions flipped and flopped so much that my head was spinning, but he finally settled in and has seemed quite civvie since. What does really concern me is how unconcerned he is about painting targets on civvies.

Timmer, how many players are left on Snake Mountain, do you think?

Now I specifically asked you if you were 100% sure for a reason, but you didn't directly answer my question, so I figured based on the way you were posting you had very, very high confidence level. So that scared me because, like I've said, I know he's civvie, and I know there's tons of behind the scenes stuff going on this game -- I think the Horde's technology might be more scary than some of us realize, but maybe that's just me being paranoid. And it's why I think pushing for a few civvie lynches might seriously damage how well we've done all game. It's imperative we do not do that.

I understand what I've pulled in the past, don't worry, I get that. But I need to stress that players should be judged on the game they are playing, and in this one I am civvie. If you've been reading me all game as a civvie, and others who have proven themselves worthy of being trusted have as well, then it doesn't make sense to throw that out of the window because I've been a crafty baddie. You could argue the same with Diamond Dog, that man is one hell of a baddie, I only ever hope to be that good when I'm bad. But as a civvie, he has also proven a very excellent help, and sometimes he was unfairly lynched as a civvie because of his frequency of doing amazing things when bad.

I agree it would make total sense for Orson to call out Snow Dog as bad based on his role. I mean, that would be the most logical explanation here. Only I have absolute firm reason to believe that is NOT the case, so honestly, I can't tell you why Orson thought Snow Dog was bad. I thought it was a hex, but he seemed to even argue it after that until his death, so maybe it wasn't a hex. I am open to the possibility that he is calling Kate out on being bad, I suppose, but she hasn't given me reason to believe she's not civvie. And, if you'll notice when you go back to look at Orson's posts, he didn't strongly single anyone out as bad even close to after the two failed NK nights, which would make sense if he did. What other kind of public role could he have blocked and deduced?

LT is not on Snake Mountain, I highly doubt it, even after all of this. I still firmly believe a good portion of Horde is just sitting back and watching this develop because why shouldn't they?

I'm still going to look back at other certain players before I even think of casting my vote today. I looked at BWT's posts again last night and they weren't really that helpful. If anyone finds anything in those other than his one post before he dies where he calls people out, let me know.

[Kate]

Hotels Linz, in the eyes of many dog health has become a clash of the duration of the demo is wrong.

[Kate]

Mom!

[Kate]

Through the eyes of a dog

[Kate]

Dominique =

[Kate]

Audio (2)

[Snow Dog]

Dominique =

Fish

[Kate]

Blind dog support this article?

[Kate]

In part to

[Kate]

Domain name Nico.

[Kate]

In part to

[Snow Dog]

Blind dog support this article?

For example!

[Kate]

snow dogs

[LittleTiger]

Snow Dog and I have a complex relationship this game that I am not permitted to disclose nor do I think it would be in my best interest to, which is why I didn't want to have to be so direct with my defending him but this lynch was seriously heading solely for a Snow Dog lynch. There is some serious behind the scenes crap going on this game, as you all are likely aware from these weird lynch switches, but there's even more than that. All I have to say is it would be incredibly disastrous to civvies if he gets lynched today. Let's not lynch him today. Or ever. I'm not kidding. I will not support a lynch of him today; we need to catch someone Horde. If any of you have even thought to trust me for a second this game, you need to believe me.

Looks at the roles



Looks at roles again....

[Snow Dog]

snow dogs

For example!

[Epignosis]

[Tangrowth]

Kate's obviously trying to say something. I hate this insanifier, it's even harder to decode than the normal one. All I can pick up is that she's probably trying to weigh in on Snow Dog because she's said dog a few times now.

Okay, so what is everyone thinking are the numbers here? Just so we can try and get this straight. The worst case scenario I see is 5 Horde and 3 Snake Mountain, based solely on those who were lynched, correct? However, I do believe that to be 5 Horde and 2 Snake Mountain. That's 7 players. We currently have 20. This means 11 are civvie and 2 are indies.

The key is narrowing down the possible Horde players. If we assume BF/juliets/indiglo are Etherian, that means DFaraday, DP, Elohcin, Ishar, Kate, reywaS, SE, Stormcrow, the_untamed, timmer all have some chance to be Horde (or Snake Mountain possibly), correct? I realize some of those players might seem more likely than others, but I'm trying to see if this works. Also, naturally, some portion of those has to be civvie.

Also, LT, let the record show that I did not out anyone here as a civvie, I was not the one to suggest BF, juliets, and indiglo were Etherian; at the time, I thought it was definitively possible that any or all could be Horde. I'm still considering that possibility, but I'm going with the most likely explanation for now unless I feel we need to believe otherwise. I still want to know how they came across that information, but there are enough secret things going on I suppose that occam's razor says I should agree with the fact that they are civvie.

Speaking of Elohcin, what do people think of her? I had a role in mind but am not sure, and since BF brought her up, I realize she hasn't been discussed much. I want to see if there's reason to trust her or not.

Same with DP, really. I remember being pinged by DP a few times earlier in the game, but then he made me feel a bit better, and now he's kind of vanished again.

I still think DFaraday might be a baddie. I have not changed my mind regarding that at all. Looking at my spreadsheet, I realize there's maybe 11 people that range from I have no clue to I thought I had some idea but not sure? The rest I would like to believe still make sense.

I'm a civvie with a busy "real" life MP. Also, this is my first Mafia game, so I have been just getting my feet wet, not posting unless I am almost sure that what I have to say is true and not just speculation. That said, I am not sure about YOU I read you civvie at first and still often do, but there is a gut feeling, an intuition that I cannot seem to ignore. I believe you may be Snake Mountain. Don't use me to deflect attention from you.

I meant to respond to this in my previous post. How could I possibly be Snake Mountain? They tried to kill me on Night 1, very likely because I gunned after He-Man and I was a very active player.

That seems an awfully weird conclusion to draw, honestly.

[Kate]

[Tangrowth]

Snow Dog and I have a complex relationship this game that I am not permitted to disclose nor do I think it would be in my best interest to, which is why I didn't want to have to be so direct with my defending him but this lynch was seriously heading solely for a Snow Dog lynch. There is some serious behind the scenes crap going on this game, as you all are likely aware from these weird lynch switches, but there's even more than that. All I have to say is it would be incredibly disastrous to civvies if he gets lynched today. Let's not lynch him today. Or ever. I'm not kidding. I will not support a lynch of him today; we need to catch someone Horde. If any of you have even thought to trust me for a second this game, you need to believe me.

Looks at the roles



Looks at roles again....

Hold on, let me check with Robert and see what I can say here.

[Kate]

Snow Dog and I have a complex relationship this game that I am not permitted to disclose nor do I think it would be in my best interest to, which is why I didn't want to have to be so direct with my defending him but this lynch was seriously heading solely for a Snow Dog lynch. There is some serious behind the scenes crap going on this game, as you all are likely aware from these weird lynch switches, but there's even more than that. All I have to say is it would be incredibly disastrous to civvies if he gets lynched today. Let's not lynch him today. Or ever. I'm not kidding. I will not support a lynch of him today; we need to catch someone Horde. If any of you have even thought to trust me for a second this game, you need to believe me.

Looks at the roles



Looks at roles again....

Hold on, let me check with Robert and see what I can say here.

(The Name.

[Flyin' High]

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

[LittleTiger]

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

Completely and utterly confused.

[Kate]

[Kate]

[Tangrowth]

LT, here's what I can say, although it might not be too much help either way, which is why I didn't want to focus on all of this, but here we are.

Let me make it clear that it doesn't seem to be role-based. I did not have BTSC with Snow Dog at the very start of the game. It's nothing I can prove or disprove based on what information is currently public.

Okay, let me draw a comparison for you though. Does anyone remember PenguinJosh's role in Recruitment Mafia: ACTA, the Parasite? That's the closest comparison I can think of, but I don't think I can elaborate beyond that, and it's still quite different than that was.

That being said, what worked for that role will not work here. We should not lynch Snow Dog, ever. I need you and others to seriously help me focus on catching someone Horde today. I did not want to have to take up the thread discussion with all of this but my hand was forced. I don't think there's anything else more I can say than that, but given what's public in roles, I know I'm not confirming my civvieness with this setup, which is why I need you to trust your and other people's evaluations of me in this game.

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

This is the second time you've said this, FH, how am I ignoring anything in the roles if I've come to the conclusions I have all game? What else can I say about the fact that you're having a really hard time fitting me into a civvie role other than you're wrong?

Do you not agree that my analysis on Orson's targets made sense? How could he know Snow Dog and Kate are bad if not by the fact that NKs were failed? Because no one's answered me that one. What other roles are as publicly traceable as an NK?

That being said, I suppose it's possible Kate is a baddie here, if she's really been tricking me. She seems to perhaps really dislike what I've been saying because she seems to really want to be saying something on the matter, if I'm interpreting her slew of posts correctly.

[Tangrowth]

And are JC and reywaS silenced? Have we heard from either of them today?

I love how the Horde is likely sitting back and watching me take up all of the discussion, this is probably JUST what they wanted. Anyone find it interesting how we have a bunch of players not saying a single word this day period?

Anyway, I need to study now as well, but I'll be multitasking.

[Kate]

LT, here's what I can say, although it might not be too much help either way, which is why I didn't want to focus on all of this, but here we are.

Let me make it clear that it doesn't seem to be role-based. I did not have BTSC with Snow Dog at the very start of the game. It's nothing I can prove or disprove based on what information is currently public.

Okay, let me draw a comparison for you though. Does anyone remember PenguinJosh's role in Recruitment Mafia: ACTA, the Parasite? That's the closest comparison I can think of, but I don't think I can elaborate beyond that, and it's still quite different than that was.

That being said, what worked for that role will not work here. We should not lynch Snow Dog, ever. I need you and others to seriously help me focus on catching someone Horde today. I did not want to have to take up the thread discussion with all of this but my hand was forced. I don't think there's anything else more I can say than that, but given what's public in roles, I know I'm not confirming my civvieness with this setup, which is why I need you to trust your and other people's evaluations of me in this game.

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

This is the second time you've said this, FH, how am I ignoring anything in the roles if I've come to the conclusions I have all game? What else can I say about the fact that you're having a really hard time fitting me into a civvie role other than you're wrong?

Do you not agree that my analysis on Orson's targets made sense? How could he know Snow Dog and Kate are bad if not by the fact that NKs were failed? Because no one's answered me that one. What other roles are as publicly traceable as an NK?

That being said, I suppose it's possible Kate is a baddie here, if she's really been tricking me. She seems to perhaps really dislike what I've been saying because she seems to really want to be saying something on the matter, if I'm interpreting her slew of posts correctly.

[juliets]

Snow Dog and I have a complex relationship this game that I am not permitted to disclose nor do I think it would be in my best interest to, which is why I didn't want to have to be so direct with my defending him but this lynch was seriously heading solely for a Snow Dog lynch. There is some serious behind the scenes crap going on this game, as you all are likely aware from these weird lynch switches, but there's even more than that. All I have to say is it would be incredibly disastrous to civvies if he gets lynched today. Let's not lynch him today. Or ever. I'm not kidding. I will not support a lynch of him today; we need to catch someone Horde. If any of you have even thought to trust me for a second this game, you need to believe me.

Looks at the roles



Looks at roles again....

I wrote a long post and then windows shut me down before I could post to apply updates. Usually it warns me...but anyway, I'm not inclined to re-write. I do want to say this though, I feel exactly the same way as LT about the issue of Snow Dog and MP. I've tried to fit this explanation into the roles as they are defined but I just don't see it. Maybe it has something to do with the secrets and I just can't figure out what but it is bothering me. I haven't made a decision on Snow dog yet for that reason and because I want to hear what LT has to say after she has looked further at the situation. I'm also trying my best to see a situation where you are right and she is wrong, but again, I'm willing to wait until she reviews further.

And MP I know you don't feel like you have in an unconcerned way talked about civv roles as LT said but I feel the same way on that issue too.

I haven't decided you are bad, and actually have seen more of civv MP this game. I just wanted to note that there are some things that bother me that I don't know you can explain adequately enough for me to feel comfortable, but at this point it's just making me keep you in my sights.

I haven't given much thought to Elocin(sp) this game and I know you MP asked for thoughts on her. I will re-read her and give you my read for what it's worth.

As things stand right now I'm still leaning toward a Dom vote though someone earlier, timmer maybe, made a good point that he is likely Snake Mountain. I too would much rather get a Horde so let's see what develops here.

Also, this probably goes without saying but not being able to understand kate is making me crazy.

[Tangrowth]

LT, here's what I can say, although it might not be too much help either way, which is why I didn't want to focus on all of this, but here we are.

Let me make it clear that it doesn't seem to be role-based. I did not have BTSC with Snow Dog at the very start of the game. It's nothing I can prove or disprove based on what information is currently public.

Okay, let me draw a comparison for you though. Does anyone remember PenguinJosh's role in Recruitment Mafia: ACTA, the Parasite? That's the closest comparison I can think of, but I don't think I can elaborate beyond that, and it's still quite different than that was.

That being said, what worked for that role will not work here. We should not lynch Snow Dog, ever. I need you and others to seriously help me focus on catching someone Horde today. I did not want to have to take up the thread discussion with all of this but my hand was forced. I don't think there's anything else more I can say than that, but given what's public in roles, I know I'm not confirming my civvieness with this setup, which is why I need you to trust your and other people's evaluations of me in this game.

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

This is the second time you've said this, FH, how am I ignoring anything in the roles if I've come to the conclusions I have all game? What else can I say about the fact that you're having a really hard time fitting me into a civvie role other than you're wrong?

Do you not agree that my analysis on Orson's targets made sense? How could he know Snow Dog and Kate are bad if not by the fact that NKs were failed? Because no one's answered me that one. What other roles are as publicly traceable as an NK?

That being said, I suppose it's possible Kate is a baddie here, if she's really been tricking me. She seems to perhaps really dislike what I've been saying because she seems to really want to be saying something on the matter, if I'm interpreting her slew of posts correctly.

Okay, LOL, well that's good to know. What are you trying to say then?

Linki with JC, let me respond to this separately and then I'll get to studying. Stupid mafia game distracting me, lol.

[Kate]

[Flyin' High]

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

This is the second time you've said this, FH, how am I ignoring anything in the roles if I've come to the conclusions I have all game? What else can I say about the fact that you're having a really hard time fitting me into a civvie role other than you're wrong?

I can see only one possibility for me being wrong, but based on how things have played out this game, I think the chances of it are slim to none and those aren't odds I like to work with. I think the simple explanation is much more likely to be correct and I think it's that you've found yourself trapped in a lie and are trying to create an explanation for it by bringing up "game secrets".

And yes, I keep mentioning that you aren't considering everything in the roles because your posts indicate you are ignoring some pretty obvious things and that doesn't sit well with me.

[juliets]

MP - somehow I missed the post where you talked about the role from Recruitment. That post was not considered when I made my post, just want you to know that.

[LittleTiger]

LT, here's what I can say, although it might not be too much help either way, which is why I didn't want to focus on all of this, but here we are.

Let me make it clear that it doesn't seem to be role-based. I did not have BTSC with Snow Dog at the very start of the game. It's nothing I can prove or disprove based on what information is currently public.

Okay, let me draw a comparison for you though. Does anyone remember PenguinJosh's role in Recruitment Mafia: ACTA, the Parasite? That's the closest comparison I can think of, but I don't think I can elaborate beyond that, and it's still quite different than that was.

That being said, what worked for that role will not work here. We should not lynch Snow Dog, ever. I need you and others to seriously help me focus on catching someone Horde today. I did not want to have to take up the thread discussion with all of this but my hand was forced. I don't think there's anything else more I can say than that, but given what's public in roles, I know I'm not confirming my civvieness with this setup, which is why I need you to trust your and other people's evaluations of me in this game.

I'm just having a really hard time fitting you into a civvie role at this point, MP. And your comments about Snow Dog are confusing me so much. I'm not sure if LT's last post was indicating she saw something when she took another look at the roles, or if she is just as confused as me on what you're hinting at about Snow Dog.

I just can't help but feel that you are ignoring stuff in the roles yourself.

This is the second time you've said this, FH, how am I ignoring anything in the roles if I've come to the conclusions I have all game? What else can I say about the fact that you're having a really hard time fitting me into a civvie role other than you're wrong?

Do you not agree that my analysis on Orson's targets made sense? How could he know Snow Dog and Kate are bad if not by the fact that NKs were failed? Because no one's answered me that one. What other roles are as publicly traceable as an NK?

That being said, I suppose it's possible Kate is a baddie here, if she's really been tricking me. She seems to perhaps really dislike what I've been saying because she seems to really want to be saying something on the matter, if I'm interpreting her slew of posts correctly.

It had already occurred to me that there is some kind of "connection" going on outside of the roles - just before you posted your explanation, MP. Your description of what is going on is highly ALARMING. It does not make me feel good about the situation at all.

Here is what I think you are saying - Snow Dog is Horde and you are being controlled or are otherwise compromised by Horde. I think you are implying that he needs to be NK'd rather than lynched because something bad will happen to you if he is lynched. (Also, I have to say.... memories of parchments spring to mind )

As for other Horde, I am thinking DFaraday and reywaS need looking at.

[Flyin' High]

@LT: I would definitely like to give reywaS another look. I've skimmed through his posts but plan to do a more thorough reading of them shortly (I have a meeting coming up then I will have time to read through posts). It's a shame that reywaS was a goat for the entire two days that BWT was the topic of discussion.

[Snow Dog]