Anniversary Game 4 - Staff vs AtE D4

[Ricochet]

@Epignosis
@Spacedaisy

[Dyslexicon]

Time to lose to Violet/Lucy? Or?

[Violet]

Daisy
Lucy
Dizzy / Epog
Rico

From town to wolf.

[Violet]

*Epig

[Dyslexicon]

Gg I was Katze

[Ricochet]

Good luck town, hope you block the night kill.

Bye.

[Dyslexicon]

To be clear, I'm still town. But expecting to lose here lol

[Spacedaisy]

Good luck town, hope you block the night kill.

Bye.

ugh, Rico if I'm wrong, I'm so sorry.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Flip and vc and stuff will be delayed, sorry

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ricochet ( 4 ): Spacedaisy, Violet, Epignosis, Dyslexicon
Dyslexicon ( 2 ): Lucy, ricochet

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Ricochet flips MAFIA:

**Actually The MS Wiki Defines Jailkeeper As…**

There are people from a few different places and eras here. That's pretty cool. It also means role names can be confusing, and sometimes two people have wildly different ideas of what roles with the same name do. You know the best way to avoid that? Clearly worded role PMs (good luck), and clearly worded claims! Every night you may submit a post made at any point in the game that contains a claim. If the claim is accurate (or reasonably close to accurate) you will receive a rolecop result for that player (rolecop results do not return factional abilities, if any).

You are mafia

Night actions due in about 22 hours.

Spoiler: show

@ Dyslexicon
@ Epignosis
@ lucy
@ Spacedaisy
@ Violet

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Flavor? In this economy?

@Epignosis flips TOWN. Flip will be updated with role in about 23.5 hours.

Updated flip (role was NOT inherited):

**Actually The MS Wiki Defines Jailkeeper As…**

There are people from a few different places and eras here. That's pretty cool. It also means role names can be confusing, and sometimes two people have wildly different ideas of what roles with the same name do. You know the best way to avoid that? Clearly worded role PMs (good luck), and clearly worded claims! Every night you may submit a post made at any point in the game that contains a claim. If the claim is accurate (or reasonably close to accurate) you will receive a rolecop result for that player (rolecop results do not return factional abilities, if any).

Deadline will not be adjusted for the late start, apologies for any inconvenience.

Day ends November 23, 6pm eastern

Spoiler: show

@ Dyslexicon
@ lucy
@ Spacedaisy
@ Violet

[robyn]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

yeah dizzy/violet last one, probably dizzy
not daisy
gg's

[Spacedaisy]

I think sleep is the right choice here, personally.

I don't believe it's Dizzy. I think it's either Violet or lucy, personally.

[Spacedaisy]

lol, personally, personally.

[Violet]

I could see w! Dizzy bussing Rico. Dizzy/Rico pair would have wanted to eliminate me on D3, but because I loverized Dizzy, this would have resulted in Dizzy dying as well. Rico would have always lost the final three against Daisy, Lucy or Epig.

I want to consider other options as well. Sleep could be the mechanically correct play, unless abilities can affect the game.

I could loverize someone with me the next day so you guys can have a more confident vote somewehere, but that doesn't really help me nail the final wolf.

[robyn]

I could see w! Dizzy bussing Rico. Dizzy/Rico pair would have wanted to eliminate me on D3, but because I loverized Dizzy, this would have resulted in Dizzy dying as well. Rico would have always lost the final three against Daisy, Lucy or Epig.

I want to consider other options as well. Sleep could be the mechanically correct play, unless abilities can affect the game.

I could loverize someone with me the next day so you guys can have a more confident vote somewehere, but that doesn't really help me nail the final wolf.

dizzy!scum assuming u sleep (and town) u just loverize with me, then dizzy kills into us and dizzy wins, or kills daisy and f3 with no new info
Lucy!scum assuming you loverize with me then I kill into daisy/dizzy and then f3, no new info

assuming ur town u can't loverize with anyone else except me, daisy dies tonight in all worlds and avoids ur loverizer, sleeping provides no new info, and if dizzy is scum and decides to kill me after u loverize me then dizzy wins by NK

sleeping is suboptimal, one ML and we still lose in all worlds

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

yeah dizzy/violet last one, probably dizzy
not daisy
gg's

Lol

I don’t think this was the angle to take

[robyn]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

yeah dizzy/violet last one, probably dizzy
not daisy
gg's

Lol

I don’t think this was the angle to take

how so? the game is solved from my perspective, daisy is thread spewed town, I'm town, eg one in you dizzy and I don't particularly care who because you're lovers

[Dyslexicon]

I could see w! Dizzy bussing Rico. Dizzy/Rico pair would have wanted to eliminate me on D3, but because I loverized Dizzy, this would have resulted in Dizzy dying as well. Rico would have always lost the final three against Daisy, Lucy or Epig.

I want to consider other options as well. Sleep could be the mechanically correct play, unless abilities can affect the game.

I could loverize someone with me the next day so you guys can have a more confident vote somewehere, but that doesn't really help me nail the final wolf.

Please. I literally said no, let’s not chop Lucy, let’s do Rico instead, and asked Daisy to vote Rico. And I cased and tried to get Rico on D2 as well.

[Dyslexicon]

The last mafia is Lucy. I’ll case after work.

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

yeah dizzy/violet last one, probably dizzy
not daisy
gg's

Lol

I don’t think this was the angle to take

how so? the game is solved from my perspective, daisy is thread spewed town, I'm town, eg one in you dizzy and I don't particularly care who because you're lovers

We’re not lovers anymore.

Choose who you want to case. It will be interesting

[Dyslexicon]

I think sleep is the right choice here, personally.

I don't believe it's Dizzy. I think it's either Violet or lucy, personally.

It's not Violet, because he literally came in late D3 and was like "No, I don't think we should go Lucy, we should go Rico". There's no need to do that in a world Lucy is town and Violet is mafia. He could've just waited and let town hang themselves. It was MYLO at the time, so if we had gotten it wrong, mafia would've just won. I followed Violet on Rico, as I also thought that was better, and I asked you to change too. Everyone except Lucy is clear, and it's just Lucy. So turns out it didn't matter if we changed it from Lucy to Rico anyway.

[robyn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... .57_AM.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... .39_AM.png

[robyn]

it was obviously optimal for mafia to bus lol, nobody is conf

dizzy why are you acting like you don’t know this

[Dyslexicon]

it was obviously optimal for mafia to bus lol, nobody is conf

dizzy why are you acting like you don’t know this

Why would that be optimal? It was presumably 6/2. That would make it mylo and auto loss for town if we missed.

Why are you acting like it’s remotely possible for me to be mafia?

It’s a no for me.

[Dyslexicon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... .57_AM.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... .39_AM.png

Lol

Votes are locked in champ.

Votes aren’t locked here. All me, Violet or Daisy would have to do to chop you over Rico would be to not initiate the switch.

[Dyslexicon]

Before the flip is updated, I have role info.

Lucy’s role is based on early Rackets on TS. It’s offensive and defensive.

Epig’s role is based on culture clash regarding posting volume. It’s also offensive and defensive.

[Spacedaisy]

Dizzy is the only one I trust. If I were to live to tomorrow, I would have to seriously reconsider that trust because I don't know why else I would still be alive unless Dizzy was keeping me around because I'm pocketed. It's like the last F3 I was in. I said to myself if Cape is still alive, I'd have to ask myself why, then someone protected Cape and got me all confused. Meeehhh.

I believe it is either lucy or violet and I don't know which. Here is why:

Lucy could have voted Rico last time when she cast her first vote. She chose to vote Dizzy instead. If it's lucy she could have clinched the game by getting either Dizzy or violet chopping.

Rico would not place a vote for Dizzy, and I can only guess it was because he knew Violet stood a much higher chance of surviving in f3 than he did. Chopping Dizzy would have chopped Violet though, so he wouldn't want to vote there. Chopping lucy he had no problem with.

I don't know which of you it is though. I need more information, thus voting sleep. I assume Violet has not loverized anyone else or they would have said so by now.

[Violet]

Dizzy is the only one I trust. If I were to live to tomorrow, I would have to seriously reconsider that trust because I don't know why else I would still be alive unless Dizzy was keeping me around because I'm pocketed. It's like the last F3 I was in. I said to myself if Cape is still alive, I'd have to ask myself why, then someone protected Cape and got me all confused. Meeehhh.

I believe it is either lucy or violet and I don't know which. Here is why:

Lucy could have voted Rico last time when she cast her first vote. She chose to vote Dizzy instead. If it's lucy she could have clinched the game by getting either Dizzy or violet chopping.

Rico would not place a vote for Dizzy, and I can only guess it was because he knew Violet stood a much higher chance of surviving in f3 than he did. Chopping Dizzy would have chopped Violet though, so he wouldn't want to vote there. Chopping lucy he had no problem with.

I don't know which of you it is though. I need more information, thus voting sleep. I assume Violet has not loverized anyone else or they would have said so by now.

I'd vote Sleep as well.

Me loverizing Dizzy but voting Rico would not make sense in a world where I'm wolf I think. Loverizing would set me up as elim instead of Rico, and I woul nog have pivoted the votes to Rico.

[Dyslexicon]

I think there is a risk to sleeping and not anything to gain from it. This is not a mystery. The game is solved afaic, and we have the whole day if there's any doubt left. We don't know what roles are in play and what will happen with night actions. So that is my concern with sleeping.

In fact @Violet if we somehow live in a terrible world where Lucy is not mafia and it is in fact Daisy (or me from your perspective), then it would actually benefit us to not sleep, as your action will will still be able to save us.

If you both vote sleep, that is what will happen. But I think it's an unnecessary risk without gains.

[Dyslexicon]

Starting with how Violet is not mafia.

As I pointed out already last day, Rico showed TMI that Violet is town.

Forgot a third point I was gonna make, but it came back now: your slankvig shot is the only night-only vig shot that you ask of us to interpret assuredly as town. As in, mafia arguably only nightkills, all confirmed town vigs did it during the Day, yet yours is night-bound, but also confirmable town. How?

I don't act as if I'm not listening, if that's what your feeling, so try not to take it that way.

Roles factor in, for sure. If I were to go the exoneration path entirely and clear you and Violet, I would be left with only two viable candidates. lucy and Daisy. Can we work on that?

Roles factor aside, I cannot clear you for your gameplay. Emotional-tinged as claiming "you tried to solve the game" may be, I don't see clearance in that since both Days you wagoned lynches with no belief in being mafia.

Mafia wouldn’t get a multiple shot vig, no matter how conditional. And if they actually did, they wouldn’t let it go. That’s the end of my argument. It being not totally unthinkable to plural you is not something that makes me a good vote. Forget about confirming. Is it likely. Beyond that, I’m still not mafia. If people still want to vote me, that is their prerogative, and they can argue for how it was like totally a rational choice with the information on hand after the game.

I’m not exonerating Violet based on role. In my game, game 3, mafia had exactly a loverizer role. (Although in that game roles and alignments were random).

I addressed the end of your argument. This role, as mafia, could have been dropped in light of witnessing that under-5 and over-150 post count are extremely unlikely to occur in this game.

"I'm not exonerating Violet based on role"

So, if Violet is mafia loverizer, and Violet's description of the role is genuine, Violet would explode upon mafia killing them. Aka their teammates.

Make that make sense. Make the role make sense as mafia role, as per how Violet described it.

You are also not addressing that VIolet does not confirm your loverizer take. (#977)

This is genuine confusion as to how Violet could possibly be mafia with their claim. There's two big problems with this:
a) Rico does not realistically consider the possibility of Violet just lying about their claim, but instead discusses Violet's role in the same way he discusses my role (which is mod confirmed) and more importantly
b) He's not able to imagine how Violet's claim could be true, while the actual alignment could be the opposite. He doesn't consider the scenario that Violet is telling the truth about loverizing, but did it as mafia instead of doing it as town.

This is yet another thing that ticked me off to Rico and why I wanted him over anyone else.

Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?

Yes.

And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?

If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?

I'm smelling the mafia TMI off of him and is pressing him about it. And he confirms it.

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

This is also genuine confusion as to what actually happened between me and Violet.

All of what you see here is textbook TMI.
It's the same TMI that Rico showed regarding TSP. He could genuinely not understand how TSP was not confirmed town by recommending to shoot Dolby.

---

I'm now caught up. I do not think Lucy is the right kill here, so I will put my vote on Rico.

Honestly, I would prefer blowing up both me and Dizzy over chopping Lucy.

This is Violet coming in 40 minutes before EoD, and there are three votes on Lucy. I do not see any realistic reason to just come in and decide to bus your teammate when the numbers are 4/2 and it's MYLO. If we had mischopped yesterday, we would have lost, baring some night actions saving us.

But there is no reason in my mind for Violet to come in and suggest a chop on the teammate, when in that world, town was fully engage in chopping Lucy. It would be better for Violet to chop me in that world, as at least that would get rid of one town. However:

I'm now caught up. I do not think Lucy is the right kill here, so I will put my vote on Rico.

Honestly, I would prefer blowing up both me and Dizzy over chopping Lucy.

Order of preference: Rico > Me + Dizzy >>>> Lucy

This is Violet's preference that he is acting on.

---

Can anyone more familiar with the site confirm if violations against AtE policy are brought up in the thread like this? At first I didn't think about it, but considering the theme of the game, this might be related to a some in game ability.

Dunno how Nanook enforces AtE policy in other games, but it's probably ability-related, given the theme of this game.

Town, wolf, indy ability, though?

This reply does raise concern as it is quite clear the ability is related to the "staff" ie. the wolves in this game. Town has AtE as their theme, so if ou had a town role, you'd know the power belongs to wolves.

As wolves you would also know the power belongs to wolves though. However, as a wolf you could miss that town could easily figure out to who this ability belongs as you don't actually have to do any of the figuring out.

Earlier in the game we also had this very specific accusation about how Rico read a role flip. This is not a mafia on mafia interaction. This may be harder for me to explain, but I'm quite sure of this, as the type of "you're not aware of the town theme and therefore you are mafia".

---

I've had some concerns earlier about Rico/Violet being possible, mostly just because of an offhand comment Rico made in our prize chat on D1, about Violet being totally out of the loop, or something akin to that. I didn't understand his reasoning for treating Ruri and Violet different, or what made Violet more out of the loop than Ruri. However, this was an offhand comment when we discussed who we would target with the unknown action we had. He didn't prefer to target any of the lurkers.

I think the evidence for Violet being town greatly outweighs that. Especially Rico showing TMI of Violet being town and Violet choosing to advocate for chopping Rico when he strictly did not have to do that.

In the off chance that I'm wrong about this, and somehow Rico managed to fake the confusion and taking Violet's claim as a town claim for granted, and Violet somehow decided to bus his teammate in MYLO for lolz, then ok, sometimes you do roll a 20. But it's extremely, extremely unlikely imo.

@Spacedaisy Please read and consider this.

[Dyslexicon]

@Epignosis
@Spacedaisy

I'm going to write a case on Lucy, but Rico is outing her here as well.
Rico tried to survive to last minute, saying bye to town and saying he hopes the kill gets blocked (he was aware that it was MYLO). Here he pings Epig and Daisy to potentially change their mind. If any of Daisy or Epig switches to me, then me and Violet are chopped instead since mafia decides between ties. He outs Daisy as town by pinging her, and he outs me and Violet as town as well by trying to get the last ditch effort in for a fail on town's part.

[Dyslexicon]

Why Lucy is mafia

Edit: I know this is a lot. And some of the points are kind of detailed. Sometimes when I take as alignment indicative doesn't make sense to others. I'm leaning on my experience, and the points here are quite clear to me. If it's not clear to you, please ask for clarification. I don't know how well I'm able to explain myself.


Lucy

hey moon, do you post reads lists, if so do you mind posting one?

I'm not good at posting reads lists, but I'll give it a shot!

Actually, wait, I don't want to do that yet. Maybe in 24 hours or so.

Dizzy still top town though. <3

Followed by, like, you and maybe Ricochet, maybe.

I also tr you, Martin dying over boq/dizzy/me feels weird

also I assume that the ruri kill was done by town, serial killer has no incentive to kill an inactive, mafia killed Martin because he was widely and strongly TR, the question is why the kill wasn't in me/boq/dizzy

More of an aside, but here Lucy is saying the Ruri kill would be done by town, almost like she is perfectly able to understand the exact implications of that kill in spite of having tried to argue against it later when she had to pretend to mafia read me.

@lucy You should probably catch mafia today, or tell me if I already did. Or else I'm probably going to tunnel you before you can tunnel me.

on d1 i could tell there was one in u and chet, but that wasn’t a read to put put into the thread since bad news if i was wrong i’d get less influence late game, so i’m very inclined to follow u on chet since my confidence is fairly strong, although unfortunately it’s not a god read where i’m 100% right

why do u suspect violet

also boq/epi/moon town
idk about anyone else because i’m not looking at playerlist

and i know u have many years of experience with twinks, but as a twink or with them?

This is when Lucy first mentioned the read on there being mafia in one of me/Rico. I agreed, because I thought Rico was mafia, and I followed this read from Lucy up later:

@lucy More words about why you think there's one in me and Rico would be appreciated. And also your own view of Rico's game and what it says about his alignment rn

any words would be lies or rationalizations for something that's in my gut, I'm looking at your play and comparing it to his
I didn't trust my intuition that poked at the fact in sabi game there was 1 scum in wisdom/boq and sabi/bk, others found one in prince j and princess neon, so I'm trusting the one in 2 players thing here completely, any rationalizations or arguments would be supplementing what my gut says

When I ask her about her read regarding me/Rico, and especially Rico, the response is basically vapor.

Most of the things Boq says, I just find very strange. Don't know if that should tell me something

I caught boq very easily last game we played, 99% chance he's not scum here

Comforting. But are you? CAUSE IF SO I CAUGHT YOU AND DOLBY ON PAGE 1 AND YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE

1) if I am mafia with Chet you're forcing me to bus or tunnel me
2) i considered this and you set this up intentionally
3) I don't mind dying d3

but otherwise your methods are pretty obvious, if I was mafia or town I'd have the same reaction (mostly because the trap is obvious), if I was mafia I'd probably tell you to go elsewhere because we both know you aren't as confident as you come off as

This is very interesting and adds to her outing. So, me and Lucy has some interaction mid D2. I ask her if she is mafia (because I'm feeling worse and worse about her), and I'm adding on this that if she is indeed mafia, I want it on record that I caught her and Dolby on Page 1. Referring to this post:

Spoiler: show

And Daisy!

Well, enough “wasting” posts. There will be plenty of time for that later.

Good night and please post densely about Lucy and Dolby being mafia. <3

However, Lucy doesn't interpret it like it's meant. Instead she interprets it as me trying to trick her into bussing Rico. This is not an interpretation that comes from town - it is a guilty mindset. There's several instances of guilty mindset in Lucy's posts, especially the ones where she interacts with me. She says that I'm trying to stress her and reaction test her (which I truly have not done specifically). She also says I'm a good player and even says it's good with players like me, because either I get NKed or I catch mafia, and this is shortly after I have cased Rico. I think she is genuine in saying I'm a good player and she's spending energy trying to play around me.

TL;DR: I think Lucy has a crush on me, and the feeling is mutual.

I kind of lost motivation from how I was feeling D1 and especially after D1 this game. Sometimes I feel like nobody really is good at being town - or rather, nobody is really good at reads or have a high read accuracy over time. Being town is of course about other things than being right. Being mafia is much easier. But I also find it very stressful, so I rarely enjoy myself when I'm mafia. This is probably not that interesting nor relevant, but in short, video mafia is cool and you should all play when it happens =p

I've only had 3 mafia rands in 5 months after 20 games in that timespan, I find town to be repetitive, it's nice playing with someone like you who as town you're either an auto NK or you'll catch mafia, easiest players to deal with (with my read accuracy I'm in the same box atm)

Yeah. So here we are and I cased mafia on D2, caught mafia with some other cool folks D3, and what have you done, my little dove?

3 town kill powers...

This is before I claim the Ruri NK. And it's just a slip. So that's nice.
It's also dripping of what I like to call factional detestation, to get fancy.
It's a pretty good tell when this leaks through in posts, either town detesting mafia or mafia detesting town, like in this example. The implication here being that it's unfair that town has three kills to work with.

shit analysis

Mafia are between Violet, Rico and Lucy. I'm quite confident here. It's ok if I'm wrong, but it will take some convincing to get me off this view. It just a matter of what constellation.

question: if epig/daisy are town, why did mafia shoot boq, who TR me and rico

that's what I'm thinking about

Guess I have to do a meaningless buss vote then.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Spoiler: show

As in town on town

6-2 at best and you want to lynch town. Unbelievable.

@lucy Is this a town post?

what was rico's previous read on tsp, that might've been a slip but I'm not convinced

This here is subtle, but I believe very telling. There's two important components in these posts:

1. Lucy is thinking about Boq's town reads on Lucy and Rico following the Boq NK.
2. Lucy does not remember Rico's stance on TSP in spite of her having a discussion with Rico about it on D2.

This is the complete wrong focus to have. It shows that she is more concerned with specific details of the NK than solving the players she interacts with. Or to put it another way: She is getting to a point by using (hand picking) information ("But these town reads by Boq") instead of using information (naturally) to get to a point (Which would be to actually remember interactions and have a natural map of the game and it's players. But Lucy doesn't need to solve Rico, so there's no point in remembering what Rico's stance on TSP was, even thought it was a pretty contentious point in the thread and if Lucy was town she would definitely consider it and consider if Rico had TMI on TSP.

But instead she focuses in on her and Rico being town reads in Boq's list.
Boq was in fact killed as a function of his role, given his flip.

As an aside, she also completely misses my point in calling out the Rico post ("6-2 at best and you want to lynch town. Unbelievable.") in question. My point was not that it was a possible slip. My point was that it was possibly the single most awkward sounding post I've ever seen playing mafia. It was over acting to the point of me calling it outing in an instant. If I wasn't me, but someone like Mac or something instead, I would've pounced on Rico so hard the following day that Nook would give me a vig shot just to shoot Rico just to make me shut up. I have a lot of regrets in this game. But I'm maybe not as bad at mafia as I think. (Except we all are bad tbh. It's impossible to actually be good at this game.)

Lucy
daisy

violet

epig
trebuchet
twink

After making a point of the Boq kill clearing Rico in her eyes, and after making it clear that she now mafia reads me, because she still think it's one in me and Rico, but she now thinks Rico is town, she still puts both me and Rico in her mafia reads/PoE. This is just disingenuous, and she is again showing that she is not actually solving.


*I forgot to quote the post, but Lucy simply saying "Shit analysis" to Rico's analysis of Dolby interactions is also very indicative of how w/w interactions go. It's the same energy as Rico saying that Dolby was boasting. "If we are kind of mean to each other in thread, they will never suspect us together!"

---

Dolby

1/4th of the way to Dolby (4)

what's your experience, read accuracy, and strengths/weaknesses as mafia and town

are u gonna lowpost?

eh i do stuff and can pretty meticulous when i want to put the effort in to be meticulous

but i don't really anymore

probably gonna lowpost tbh

I see moonwink doesn't get a question about her mafia play, she fool you recently or something?

This is such a picky question from Dolby, which is very typical of w/w interaction.

Spoiler: show

both of you are being whack rn

what are your reads

spacedaisy v
epi v
boq v
dizzy v
(HOT TAKE ALERT) martin v, just the way he's danced at me all day and then he's like "you know this guy hasn't posted yet I'm just not gonna pursue" just doesn't feel like a wolf
jack... eh
rico... i actually ended up liking more than i used to going through the thread
reading the three of your isos (moonwink/lucy/th) I'm having a hard time seeing a lot of w/w pairings when I also see how the votes have been stacking up

think im leaning towards a th vote

i probably will end up voting TH

Here's some posts where Dolby is talking about Lucy and puts her in the bottom with Moon and TH. He also announces twice that he will likely vote TH, when Lucy is the other option.

---

Rico

Spoiler: show

Halfway D1 list

Town lean
Martin - effort and read depth vibe best of all right now; slightly not sure what to read into his hesitancy to judge some players based on previous games/previous errors of judgement; blank vote on a low-player out of a generous basket thus far, but claims he is looking into something, fine

Daisy - effort and read depth vibe second best of all right now

Dizzy - not quite on best behaviour early on (banter opening statements, including being maf, blank Moon vote), but can get (or simply wouldn't overthink it atm) behind the rallying sentiment for activity and the scrutiny shown in others' reads

Complete null
Violet - totally inactive

Epignosis - I'm fine with his MO-question deflecting, though on the basis of remembering that is much-like-him; early pings on TH and Moon, not expanded since (due to no more activity)

Null towards sus
Dolby - one post out of three that can somewhat constitute interaction (answering MO) and picking small details/nuances off lucy; for a poster stating intent to not "do stuff", it's not nothing atm

Ruri - one hello and one post placing themselves in same camp with Boquise (though the detail picked on Moon's vote isn't blank)

TSP - early Day posts, nothing since; semblance of reading Moon (via Epig's ping) and some ping on Epig

Boquise - admits low-active rhythm, but drops a town read on Daisy, corrects TH (on something long corrected) for some reason, banter post towards Epig's banter post; can understand the relaxed take Daisy shared, though unfamiliar with their MO, but as far as that vote goes, don't find anything productive about it

Jack - banter MO answering camp, nothing else

TripleHaven - there's effort, but once re-read, there's also v reads thrown at blank and the bit where Moon gets suss'd for not answering MO and Dizzy gets townread for claming wolf; don't get quite a sense of it all, but it's most inching towards a full sus out of this tier

Suss
lucy - early high-posters, but it all amounts to inquiring on meta; in light of no read process off of info received, there's no inherent cred to award to this effort

Moonwink - 7am wakeup to game start had my vibe quickly set (tho clueless on MO) on her sliding past MO answers as not awesome; embraces her chaos playing; slow pace to get serious so far;

Dolby Interaction Perspective

Boquise
- sole engagement with Dolby is asking him to scrutinize himself
- places him second bottom for no direction in posts

Interaction bit on the polite, low-pressure side and final read backed up by less detailed reasoning than expected for a sus color.


Dyslexicon
- banter about Dolby being mafia
- enhance of Dolby’s wordscan of lucy’s meta ask (missing the mafia question)
- hopeful that Dolby will prove frequent-poster
- would have nominated Dolby in the vig shot fake scenario
- further interacts with Dolby on kill option
- reveals vig shot bluff soon after Dolby response
- open to Dolby’s sus placed on me
- temp vote on Dolby
- wolfcores Martin and Dolby
- wolfteams Dolby with Martin and Violet

Worth a grainsalt on both the open statement about hoping Dolby will be active and the readiness to follow what Dolby concocted as his D1 cases, but every bit of pushing Dolby into attention and contention (from vig shoot, regardless if bluff, to wagon) feels too risky to ignite from teammate perspective.


Epignosis
- shrug response to Dolby light questioning him
- D2 returning with a softvote on Dolby for his D1 sketchy townread on him

Null. Or ever so town-lean, as in a gut tell that Epignosis is just playing his own route and didn't bother to cover tracks and act blind on teammates' inactivity.

(This was written last night, before the vig shoot happening).


Lucy
- meta ask and ask about poststyle; Dolby replies in detail
- banter to TSP suggesting a vig shot on Dolby
- then adds Dolby on the vig shot nomination list
- awaits for Dolby to contribute more (or expresses belief in him doing that)
- asks Dolby for EOD reads

To note that, whilst not that uncooperative early on, Dolby put on his best reply form to lucy's ask. Sensing a sort of go-with-the-flow once Dolby was on people's minds about a potential vig flip. Vibe is that it is not out of reason for much of this interaction to be nudges towards.

Spacedaisy
- nothing

TSP
- nominates Dolby for vig shot (for motivation to play)
- D2 claims Dolby should have been dead
- Right off tell Jack to “blast dolby”

Struggling to comprehend the wolf angle on casting Dolby in the eye of every (bluffed / real) mechanic-related danger. Plus the night 1 claim, which is extra twisted WIFOM to build.

Violet
- nothing


TSP
Epignosis
Dyslexicon
Spacedaisy
Violet
Boquise
lucy

Not sold on this interaction angle by any means, but this is the best I can read into it atm.

what's your read on me @Ricochet

Don't have time to make a case on you right now.

If compelled with just 30 seconds to realtime, I would say I don't trust you, but couldn't make a convinced statement.

From the Dolby profiling, I would say there are high odds at least one of his mafia teammates either: a) minded their own line of work and never interacted or b) interacted well with him and/or nudged him to put on a good show. You would be in the second camp.

Least odds in my mind would be a hardbuss, in the style TSP did, which is why I am now confused why you are voting him or how do you see him wolf out of this.

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

Case file lucy

Role stuff

N/A or no clue.

Vote pattern
(might have missed some, lucy doesn’t use the vote button all the time)

D1
- #265 Triple [townflip] – ping vote
- #415 Ruri [townflip] – jump on wagon, clarifies later (#419) intent to clear low-poster
- #502 Triple [townflip] - votes to self-pres

D2
- #760 Ricochet – no reasoning, though impartial (#762)
- #768 Moonwink [townflip] – shortly moves, presumably at Moonwink’s taunt
- #849 TSP [townflip] – down with it
- #850 Ricochet – down with it too
- #851 TSP [townflip] final

Play pattern

D1
- Meta asks much of the field (Moon, Dolby, Daisy, Epignosis, TSP, Rico, Martin, Jack)
- #207 clarifies (to Daisy) that interpretation of meta answers is not her D1 MO, gives a pass to evasive answers
- Next stretch, focuses on interaction with some and others’ pings on her
- #264 promises readslists, even though not her MO this early
- Next stretch, pokes a few (Dizzy, Jack) on their pings and others (Boq, Rico) on reading her
- #410 adds one more ping on Triple, though #412 still leans town, #416 admits it was half-assed ping
- #420 TR Triple for “actual solving”, though on the “fast and loose side”, which mirrors a bit Dizzy’s #278 similar assessment
- #424 would still push Ruri elimination, since not confident in Moon or Triple lynch

D2
- Interprets night kill
- Invites players (Boq) for realtime
- #542 started looking at a Dolby read, then nothing
- #553 states again meta of warming up reads starting D2, with help of realtime
- #557 more on own post-reading skills
- #590 more on own read accuracy, albeit poor in wording
- TRs on Jack, then Epig, then Boq
- Develops twinkies gimmick as an ask across the board
- #606 asks me on reads (on her, dizzy, boq)
- #671 “could tell [of possible mafia] in Dizzy and/or Rico” but put it aside not to get wrong and then less influence, would follow Dizzy
- Inquires Dizzy, Boq, Violet, TSP
- #684 starts an “I know what you’re doing” exchange with Dizzy re their “tactics”
- #728 ping on TSP for “doing nothing”
- #769 “will make a readlist”
- Mad at Epi for his shot
- Exchange with me on TSP angle

I read Lucy’s D1 in quite a bad light, more than anything with natural bias against players with the mindset to do less, solve less or delay such matter. However, I’ve re-read that she wasn’t committed to lynch wagons she didn’t see reasonable (Triple, Moon). Was committed to clearing a low-poster, until self-pres intervened.

More active D2 with several pursuits, but not that sure this time how to sum it up. Ping on twice now having said readlists will happen, yet sticking to none. Townread a fair amount of players, but openly founds reasons to not clear and pursue the TSP lynch.

I’ll push it further in her case that so far during D3 I find her thought process even more confounding. “Certainty” in Epig being bad, meta profiling of wolf Dizzy. Why pursue this? Where does this lead? Where is lucy’s head at? Why is it hard to answer this on MYLO, what does she achieve in playing it so?

If wolf/if town scenarios don’t reveal too much nuance, I think. If town, this is overall a weird play, with less-than-promised aspects of case-making, and I concede that I will have more to learn and reflect on this gameplay of hers post-game. If wolf, it would be a sort of float around play, lynches would align in same way Dizzy’s would i.e. cleaning town.

Read: Nothing to take off POE, could vote

It seems to me that lucy is a member of the most remaining possible permutations of the wolf team.

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

Mind you, Daisy, if this clears wolf, you are my only remaining wolf possibility.

This case is long. But here's a bunch of post that is Rico on Lucy. It's actually what would give me the most pause, because Rico takes a pretty consistent anti-Lucy stance throughout the game. He doesn't push it a lot, and not when Lucy is in danger. He also doesn't vote Lucy on D1, but rather is the sole vote on Moon. But he does vote Lucy eventually both D2 and D3. It would probably have to be planned distancing. I don't think Lucy was in much actual danger of being chopped on D2. The D3 vote would have to be a planned bus. I do think it's strange that Rico didn't just go at me. But maybe he was self conscious about doing that when Lucy was the one leading the charge. (He also did go after me in the end when he got desperate.)

Here's something from his analysis on Lucy that I find very w/w indicative:

If wolf/if town scenarios don’t reveal too much nuance, I think. If town, this is overall a weird play, with less-than-promised aspects of case-making, and I concede that I will have more to learn and reflect on this gameplay of hers post-game. If wolf, it would be a sort of float around play, lynches would align in same way Dizzy’s would i.e. cleaning town.

He is basically saying that if Lucy is town, she's basically playing like a goose and that he will have to "reflect on this gameplay post-game". Lol. This is not mafia talking about town. This is mafia talking about mafia. There is nobody to offend here when he knows Lucy is not town.

[robyn]

because I'm town this is outing for dizzy

[robyn]

but idc enough to counter case

[Dyslexicon]

@Ricochet flips MAFIA:

**Actually The MS Wiki Defines Jailkeeper As…**

There are people from a few different places and eras here. That's pretty cool. It also means role names can be confusing, and sometimes two people have wildly different ideas of what roles with the same name do. You know the best way to avoid that? Clearly worded role PMs (good luck), and clearly worded claims! Every night you may submit a post made at any point in the game that contains a claim. If the claim is accurate (or reasonably close to accurate) you will receive a rolecop result for that player (rolecop results do not return factional abilities, if any).

You are mafia

Night actions due in about 22 hours.

Spoiler: show

@ Dyslexicon
@ Epignosis
@ lucy
@ Spacedaisy
@ Violet

Flavor? In this economy?

@Epignosis flips TOWN. Flip will be updated with role in about 23.5 hours.

Updated flip (role was NOT inherited):

**Actually The MS Wiki Defines Jailkeeper As…**

There are people from a few different places and eras here. That's pretty cool. It also means role names can be confusing, and sometimes two people have wildly different ideas of what roles with the same name do. You know the best way to avoid that? Clearly worded role PMs (good luck), and clearly worded claims! Every night you may submit a post made at any point in the game that contains a claim. If the claim is accurate (or reasonably close to accurate) you will receive a rolecop result for that player (rolecop results do not return factional abilities, if any).

Deadline will not be adjusted for the late start, apologies for any inconvenience.

Day ends November 23, 6pm eastern

Spoiler: show

@ Dyslexicon
@ lucy
@ Spacedaisy
@ Violet

Ok but wtf

[Dyslexicon]

because I'm town this is outing for dizzy

If you are in fact town, then the last mafia is actually Daisy. I was about to do a devil's advocate. If you are town, you should HELP.

[Dyslexicon]

Devil's advocate for Daisy.

Because when I went through Dolby's and Rico's posts, I noticed that nothing was clearing for Daisy. And in fact, it didn't look very good.

I'd ask everyone townreading Daisy on why they're townreading Daisy.

Halfway D1 list

Town lean
Martin - effort and read depth vibe best of all right now; slightly not sure what to read into his hesitancy to judge some players based on previous games/previous errors of judgement; blank vote on a low-player out of a generous basket thus far, but claims he is looking into something, fine

Daisy - effort and read depth vibe second best of all right now

Dizzy - not quite on best behaviour early on (banter opening statements, including being maf, blank Moon vote), but can get (or simply wouldn't overthink it atm) behind the rallying sentiment for activity and the scrutiny shown in others' reads

[cut]

This is one example. Rico asks why people are town reading Daisy, but quickly after puts her in the town reads.

I don't think Daisy ever commented on my Rico case on D2. She also moved the train from Rico to Lucy at a point on D3.

HOWEVER, she did in fact end up voting Rico on D3 when I asked her to. She wavered quite a bit. But she could in fact have just voted me instead and used the rule where mafia decides tie to have both me and Violet chopped.

So in the case that Daisy is mafia, she made an extremely weird and unstrategical play on D3. It's not impossible that it happened. But in that case I would more see it as a delayed win we assume Daisy as town because of it. Because a Rico/Daisy team could've just won there and then. Daisy was busy at the moment and seemed quite stressed, so it's thinkable that she just didn't think clearly and went with the bussing strategy, since she had already said she thought I was town, she was playing the role of not voting me. Or maybe she was afraid of mechanics or weird actions that would out her, or that me and Violet was lying about the lover thing.

Daisy has felt good to me on several points in this game. Especially the moment she found Epig, is something I really liked.

From Dolby and Rico's play, Daisy is quite compatible action. From Daisy's play and especially her voting of Rico, I'd say no.

Especially since I think there's many compelling arguments for Lucy mafia.

[Dyslexicon]

@Violet Is your action compulsory?

[Dyslexicon]

Does anyone have any idea how Epig flipped the same role as Rico?

My only guess is that he chose himself to copy the role.

[Dyslexicon]

@lucy If you are town, the communication is on you. I don't give a shit about your whining of "Dizzy should know better" because YOU should know better. Do the solve. It is very possible to find my alignment here.

Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

I think Daisy isn't mafia because she could've literally won D3 if she had just voted me. It's conceivable she didn't think about it that way, that she was nervous or whatever else to make a strategical error. I find it hard to believe though.

I have many clearing factors for me. It is simply not true that "that doesn't matter because it's Dizzy" cause that is not how this shit works. I made a strictly pro town vig shot when I had other choices. I gave up the vig role. I cased Rico on D2. Me and Rico's interactions in general should be enough to understand we aren't teamed. I argued for Rico being killed instead of you on D3 and asked Daisy to vote there. It was literally MYLO and all a me/Rico team would have needed was to just let you go over. How is that hard to comprehend?

And if you do not answer this AND is town, that is completely on you.

[robyn]

fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

[robyn]

Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

haven't read

[robyn]

Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

I think Daisy isn't mafia because she could've literally won D3 if she had just voted me. It's conceivable she didn't think about it that way, that she was nervous or whatever else to make a strategical error. I find it hard to believe though.

if it isn't you, I will try to find you
I'll look at daisy & violet tonight
(not in the headspace to do proper analysis rn, haven't even read ur case on me)
but I know this means nothing, but I am not mafia here, that's not the solve

[Dyslexicon]

fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

I do not understand nor did I expect this reaction.

All I'm saying is that if you are in fact town, and if that should have any weight on me, you need to actually show it and put in the work. Cause I really could not give two shits about losing the game to a weird w!Daisy world if you're not willing to do any leg work or communicate.

[robyn]

Before the flip is updated, I have role info.

Lucy’s role is based on early Rackets on TS. It’s offensive and defensive.

Epig’s role is based on culture clash regarding posting volume. It’s also offensive and defensive.

my role sucks, I gave u more posts on n1 for d2, but nook raised post cap from 100 to unlimited, and on n2 for d3 I could steal posts from a player which literally did nothing so I didn't use it because unlimited post cap, I have a n3 ability that idek what it does, I don't have any n4+ abilities

[Dyslexicon]

Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

I think Daisy isn't mafia because she could've literally won D3 if she had just voted me. It's conceivable she didn't think about it that way, that she was nervous or whatever else to make a strategical error. I find it hard to believe though.

if it isn't you, I will try to find you
I'll look at daisy & violet tonight
(not in the headspace to do proper analysis rn, haven't even read ur case on me)
but I know this means nothing, but I am not mafia here, that's not the solve

Ok. Please do that when you're in the headspace and before day is over.

I will ISO Daisy myself at a later point. I need to sleep now.

I'm very confident it is not Violet myself.

[robyn]

fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

I do not understand nor did I expect this reaction.

All I'm saying is that if you are in fact town, and if that should have any weight on me, you need to actually show it and put in the work. Cause I really could not give two shits about losing the game to a weird w!Daisy world if you're not willing to do any leg work or communicate.

how clear is violet/daisy to u, give respective percentages and I'll case accordingly

[robyn]

Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

I think Daisy isn't mafia because she could've literally won D3 if she had just voted me. It's conceivable she didn't think about it that way, that she was nervous or whatever else to make a strategical error. I find it hard to believe though.

if it isn't you, I will try to find you
I'll look at daisy & violet tonight
(not in the headspace to do proper analysis rn, haven't even read ur case on me)
but I know this means nothing, but I am not mafia here, that's not the solve

Ok. Please do that when you're in the headspace and before day is over.

I will ISO Daisy myself at a later point. I need to sleep now.

I'm very confident it is not Violet myself.

ty sorry