Lawyers, Guns and Money- [TOWN WINS!]

[Scotty]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

Like, if we didn’t resolve one of those, we’d be in a similar position today going…well, should we try to go after Sean and Wilgy again?

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

[S~V~S]

I think svs is obvtown for going for the tie, even if a tie would have been very bad for town.

So you think she's bad for trying to save you? If you're civ, that doesn't make much sense.

No? I am saying svs is obviously town.

A tie would have been bad for town, and I almost unvoted to avoid a tie before Dennis voted, because my death would have been better for town than no death, but I don't think SVS saw it that way.

No how is a dead townie better for the town than no death? A miselim might make for easier analysis, but I’d rather have Wilgy alive.

[Scotty]

Yay game

You don’t say

[Seanzie]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

Information and worldbuilding/worlddestroying are important. We have miselims for a reason - each one is worth it's weight in information. No-elim costs us half a miselim without giving us any info.

[Dennis]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

And I was trying to push the tie because I didn’t think either was bad enough to decide one way or the other.

What is your feel on Sean now?

Coincidentally the one person I didn't get to in my run through during the night. I think, based off memory, since people didn't want to kill him because of how he was accepting death, we could've fallen into a trap of sorts. Like he knew we wouldn't want to vote him and they got a civvie out in the process. Definitely giving him weird looks but I don't know if I want to vote him or not.

[S~V~S]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

Like, if we didn’t resolve one of those, we’d be in a similar position today going…well, should we try to go after Sean and Wilgy again?

I’d rather have a living townie than info tbh. You might not feel that way if you were the dead civ lol

[Scotty]

I think svs is obvtown for going for the tie, even if a tie would have been very bad for town.

So you think she's bad for trying to save you? If you're civ, that doesn't make much sense.

No? I am saying svs is obviously town.

A tie would have been bad for town, and I almost unvoted to avoid a tie before Dennis voted, because my death would have been better for town than no death, but I don't think SVS saw it that way.

No how is a dead townie better for the town than no death? A miselim might make for easier analysis, but I’d rather have Wilgy alive.

You answered it for yourself

[Sabiplz]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

[S~V~S]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

Information and worldbuilding/worlddestroying are important. We have miselims for a reason - each one is worth it's weight in information. No-elim costs us half a miselim without giving us any info.

I get that, but a living active player is just as valuable if not more so. I hate ending someone’s game if it isn’t necessary.

I guess I’m the wrong person to have in a game with a no death tie rule

[Kate]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

I can see this point of view, I'm just not sure it's worth a dead civ. I'd rather have wilgy here, and increase civ numbers. This is an interesting posit though, one I'm going to seriously think about. I'm not used to ties meaning no death.

[Scotty]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

Like, if we didn’t resolve one of those, we’d be in a similar position today going…well, should we try to go after Sean and Wilgy again?

I’d rather have a living townie than info tbh. You might not feel that way if you were the dead civ lol

I hear what you’re saying, but if I had been the Wilgy in this scenario, think of all the information you gained in why I was elimmed.

Now we get to sift through why Wilgy was piled on. We can use voting history of that D1 as the game progresses. If Sean is TOWN, then we learn even more. Who was pussyfooting around voting either. Knowing Wilgy was a bad elimination gives us a whole lot more than if Marmot just died last night and we’re still sitting around with our thumbs up our metaphorical buttholea

[Dennis]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

I can see this point of view, I'm just not sure it's worth a dead civ. I'd rather have wilgy here, and increase civ numbers. This is an interesting posit though, one I'm going to seriously think about. I'm not used to ties meaning no death.

What would happen if a tie happened in games you are used to? They both die?

[Scotty]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

Information and worldbuilding/worlddestroying are important. We have miselims for a reason - each one is worth it's weight in information. No-elim costs us half a miselim without giving us any info.

I get that, but a living active player is just as valuable if not more so. I hate ending someone’s game if it isn’t necessary.

I guess I’m the wrong person to have in a game with a no death tie rule

I think what I’m learning from this conversation is that a mafia wouldn’t be having this conversation lol

[Dennis]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

Information and worldbuilding/worlddestroying are important. We have miselims for a reason - each one is worth it's weight in information. No-elim costs us half a miselim without giving us any info.

I get that, but a living active player is just as valuable if not more so. I hate ending someone’s game if it isn’t necessary.

I guess I’m the wrong person to have in a game with a no death tie rule

I can get behind this. Not gonna lie I feel really guilty killing someone before the game really started. Although both arguments make sense and I'm very on the fence about if it's worth having info or another civ.

[Scotty]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

I can see this point of view, I'm just not sure it's worth a dead civ. I'd rather have wilgy here, and increase civ numbers. This is an interesting posit though, one I'm going to seriously think about. I'm not used to ties meaning no death.

Listen, I want Wilgy here too. I have no idea what HE is the one y’all counterwagoned while I was gone for the day. I had said that he wasn’t worth elimming yet just in case he went on another tear like last game correctly identifying 3/4 mafia.

I think there is a 0% chance a mafia wasn’t on his wagon

[S~V~S]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

Well, it’s not my meta. Civvie Wilgy was a valuable solving townie in the last game.

Even after hearing all the rabble rabble, I’d still rather have Wilgy alive

If you guys want to elim me for preferring not to lynch people I think are town, not sure what to say to that.

Viva la difference, I guess!

[Kate]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

And I was trying to push the tie because I didn’t think either was bad enough to decide one way or the other.

What is your feel on Sean now?

Coincidentally the one person I didn't get to in my run through during the night. I think, based off memory, since people didn't want to kill him because of how he was accepting death, we could've fallen into a trap of sorts. Like he knew we wouldn't want to vote him and they got a civvie out in the process. Definitely giving him weird looks but I don't know if I want to vote him or not.

What do you think of the earlier wilgy voters (other than marmot)? And if you're leaning bad for them why? Considering you're not convinced about Sean?

[S~V~S]

Sorry, eliminate. Old habits die hard.

[Sabiplz]

Can we not say lynch

[Sabiplz]

The. You should have limmed Seanzie.

[Kate]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

According to whom?

[Scotty]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

Information and worldbuilding/worlddestroying are important. We have miselims for a reason - each one is worth it's weight in information. No-elim costs us half a miselim without giving us any info.

I get that, but a living active player is just as valuable if not more so. I hate ending someone’s game if it isn’t necessary.

I guess I’m the wrong person to have in a game with a no death tie rule

I can get behind this. Not gonna lie I feel really guilty killing someone before the game really started. Although both arguments make sense and I'm very on the fence about if it's worth having info or another civ.

Them’s the game. D1’s are legitimately the worst phase of the game because we have no info. It’s all vibes. And it happens. I used to be D1’s all the time. Now I…never do? But I don’t mind in general if it progresses other people’s reads and advances town info

[Kate]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

One gives information, and one gives nothing

I can see this point of view, I'm just not sure it's worth a dead civ. I'd rather have wilgy here, and increase civ numbers. This is an interesting posit though, one I'm going to seriously think about. I'm not used to ties meaning no death.

What would happen if a tie happened in games you are used to? They both die?

The host would have a predetermined method for breaking the tie. Coin flip, perhaps?

[Seanzie]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

According to whom?

Ehh... it is a pretty common sentiment in my experience. Of course there are exceptions, but I think while it does suck that town!Wilgy is gone, it is ultimately good that ???!Wilgy is gone. (even though perhaps not as good as ???!someone-else being gone, but Wilgy was the cw that stuck for whatever reason)

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

[Sabiplz]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

According to whom?

Past couple of years. It's the general mindset

[Sabiplz]

I would like to figure out if Sean was saved as wolf or was day one just v/v but I'm fine with Golden getting votes because that D1 sucked

[Kate]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

According to whom?

Past couple of years. It's the general mindset

Gotcha. It seems the anniversary game brought a lot of players back that have differing theories. It's very interesting to be playing with you newer guys and running into ideas like this that make me question how I think. My gut still says a living player on our civ team is better than a dead one. I will think about it though.

[S~V~S]

I’ll do my reads list in the AM. I have to get up at o’dark :30, so I need to walk doggo and go to bed.

I can’t promise I won’t do it again if the vote is between two people I don’t strongly feel are bad. But I’ll try .

Night!

[Dennis]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

And I was trying to push the tie because I didn’t think either was bad enough to decide one way or the other.

What is your feel on Sean now?

Coincidentally the one person I didn't get to in my run through during the night. I think, based off memory, since people didn't want to kill him because of how he was accepting death, we could've fallen into a trap of sorts. Like he knew we wouldn't want to vote him and they got a civvie out in the process. Definitely giving him weird looks but I don't know if I want to vote him or not.

What do you think of the earlier wilgy voters (other than marmot)? And if you're leaning bad for them why? Considering you're not convinced about Sean?

That's what's bothering me--All of it seems to be jumping on the train. If someone has a list of who voted Wilgy that would be great but I feel like it was just a roll of the dice that landed on Wilgy to be the counterwagon to Seanzie.

[S~V~S]

Current meta is no day kill is anti town behavior btw.

According to whom?

Past couple of years. It's the general mindset

Well more than one mindset makes life interesting! Thanks for explaining.

[Sabiplz]

Well I figured culture clash between newer players and og players was going to happen this game

[Dennis]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

Can all other Wilgy voters please explain why they voted Wilgy?

[Dennis]

Yikes my phone gave me a bad gateway sorry about triple post.

And how is a tie worse than a dead civ? I would have rather had the tie and Wilgy alive.

Information and worldbuilding/worlddestroying are important. We have miselims for a reason - each one is worth it's weight in information. No-elim costs us half a miselim without giving us any info.

I get that, but a living active player is just as valuable if not more so. I hate ending someone’s game if it isn’t necessary.

I guess I’m the wrong person to have in a game with a no death tie rule

I can get behind this. Not gonna lie I feel really guilty killing someone before the game really started. Although both arguments make sense and I'm very on the fence about if it's worth having info or another civ.

Them’s the game. D1’s are legitimately the worst phase of the game because we have no info. It’s all vibes. And it happens. I used to be D1’s all the time. Now I…never do? But I don’t mind in general if it progresses other people’s reads and advances town info

Why do you think you don't get D1'd anymore? I like this thought process though--the 'noble sacrifice' definitely seems worth it in the long run.

[Dennis]

By the way, I've been having a lot of fun with this. Thanks for not bullying me out D1

[Golden]

Marmot tells me my next post is 18000 so I better make it a good one…

…reading back over the endgame of the day didn’t give me any good reads. I didn’t come out with anything better than I started with.

I agree with SVS voting for the tie and that’s the most justifiable vote of the lot (including mine). If I’d been there right at end of day I’d have invited to force a tie.

None of the other votes are good. Mine was a literal lolvote, it’s astonishing to me that wilgy actually picked up the votes to be limmed.

[Kate]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

Can all other Wilgy voters please explain why they voted Wilgy?

Here you go. Golden and Lucy, I'd like to hear from you two.

[Dennis]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

Can all other Wilgy voters please explain why they voted Wilgy?

Here you go. Golden and Lucy, I'd like to hear from you two.

I'm pretty sure Lucy said 'for wagon purposes' and Golden giggled maniacally to himself. So, I don't know how to feel about anyone on this list still. SVS wanted the tie (which I screwed up sorry about that), I was having a panic attack and a half, Marmot, Seanzie, and Lucy wanted to counterwagon, and Golden was Goldening? Did I get that all right? Because I'm very much failing to see any deeper meaning to this.

[Golden]

This was Marmot’s last rainbow list. He might’ve changed opinions on this towards the back half of the day, but this is something concrete 10 hours before eod:

Here's that rainbow list that no one asked for. Players are listed alphabetically in tiers.

Town

S~V~S
Dennis

Light Town

falcon45ca
Kate
Sabiplz
Scotty

Null or No Content

bea
DrWilgy
fingersplints
jack shepherd
lucy
Roxy
Seanzie
Soneji

Mafia Lean

Golden
Matahari



And to include a recap on players I haven't talked about yet that I have now sorted into tiers:

falcon45ca: I also don't really trust Golden, albeit might be for different reasons. His vibes don't strike me as hitting the notes of his scum game.

Scotty: Has been active and prodding, and also mostly harmless. I think of the townleans I have, his is the least strongest, but GTH, I do think he's town, and I have seen enough content from him to slot him here for now.

Matahari: Some of her thoughts that she posted in #529 lack direction. That is fine. But I get the feeling that she is pushing herself to talk about players when she doesn't have anything specific to say about them. Soneji in particular.

Marmot is a strange kill choice I think.

And I think in a vacuum Golden looks guiltiest only because Marmot was throwing mild suspicion

And boy do I know what bad golden does when people start suspecting him…

Very interesting. I've also been starting to wonder about my good friend Mata. We are pretty far in the game for her not be active. She was in the anniversary game for 1 day and seemed more active there as a non player! Where you at @Matahari.

What say you @Golden ?

I say the wolves are worried about me.

[Golden]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

Can all other Wilgy voters please explain why they voted Wilgy?

Here you go. Golden and Lucy, I'd like to hear from you two.

I was having fun. I apologise to wilgy that it actually contributed to his death.

[Golden]

Lol at Scotty’s vote

[robyn]

I hopped on the Wilgy train because I thought we needed a kill to move on, and I felt like I was essentially the tiebreaker. Although, as I was looking back through the night, Seanzie def would've been the call. Kinda crumpled under the pressure.

Can all other Wilgy voters please explain why they voted Wilgy?

Here you go. Golden and Lucy, I'd like to hear from you two.

2 wagons was optimal for eod1 analysis, I didn't expect wigly to go over, so it was probably a save

[robyn]

but I'm not certain, I just know it was strange how easily wigly went over

[Golden]

I can accept people who know me and don’t fully trust me.

I cannot accept anyone going ‘gee, that golden, this looks just like that last game we just played’. That deserves a smack over the head with a fish.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

[robyn]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

[Kate]

[robyn]

what about seanzie voters

[Kate]

Screenshot_20221130_225255_Chrome.jpg (196.17 KiB) Viewed 665 times

[robyn]

ty