Lawyers, Guns and Money- [TOWN WINS!]

[Kate]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

[Dennis]

@Golden You don't have pronouns on your profile, and I don't like misgendering people, so if you don't mind what pronouns do you use?

[robyn]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

[Dennis]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

Why do you think, if I was on a team, my teammates would've stopped me? Other than the obvious "you're new". I guess, what do you think I would've done with a team?

[Kate]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

[robyn]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

[Golden]

@Golden You don't have pronouns on your profile, and I don't like misgendering people, so if you don't mind what pronouns do you use?

He/him. Yes I need to add them, we sometimes used to use gender tags in the player list post.

[Golden]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

With two teammates this assumes they were around at eod. But I do think Dennis’s vote looks fairly good. Even without coaching, I doubt first time mafia wants that kind of attention.

[Golden]

My gut says the wilgy wagon is 100% clean

[Golden]

If there is one it’s Lucy but my guess is zero.

[Kate]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

[Dennis]

not like they were well thought out with other players

D:

[Golden]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

[Kate]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

With two teammates this assumes they were around at eod. But I do think Dennis’s vote looks fairly good. Even without coaching, I doubt first time mafia wants that kind of attention.

Not necessarily, they would have discussed it earlier or at some point. And I agree he looks civ.

[Dennis]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

This is what I was thinking too, which may have thrown off my EoD vote. Why would a mafia be willing to kill himself? I see no actual baddie way to say that message unless it was the most bold bluff of his life.

[Dennis]

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

This is what I was thinking too, which may have thrown off my EoD vote. Why would a mafia be willing to kill himself? I see no actual baddie way to say that message unless it was the most bold bluff of his life.

Woah okay so that was NOT the right button. I'll just copy the sentence here.

In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

[Kate]

not like they were well thought out with other players

D:

I'm just saying you seemed to make a spur of the moment decision under time pressure.

[Golden]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

With two teammates this assumes they were around at eod. But I do think Dennis’s vote looks fairly good. Even without coaching, I doubt first time mafia wants that kind of attention.

Not necessarily, they would have discussed it earlier or at some point. And I agree he looks civ.

Perhaps, but there were only two marmot votes when I dipped 30 mins before eod and no other time during the day where this situation actually appeared even remotely likely to be where the day ended.

[robyn]

I don't like your logic because of he fact that he can make his own decision, and he doesn't need to be coached and he can independently act instinctively, though it would be hard for a first time mafia player to do so. I just disagree with the importance of being the last vote on a civilian and I dislike the fact that you're not considering worlds where seanzie is town and optically Dennis looks the exact same no matter where he votes. So I have not and will not clear him for such stuff as voting a town there

similarly there's a world where seanzie is scum and Dennis outted himself (very unlikely but possible), but I'm not really considering this whatsoever, just wanna say it because it's actually possible

I personally have coldread Dennis on multiple occasions and he's locktown for me, regardless of eod except in the aforementioned world

[Golden]

Sorry, two wilgy votes.

[Kate]

@Kate can you post the full screenshot of votes

also Dennis is my top town, do you think he could be scum, Kate?

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

[robyn]

I don't like your logic because of he fact that he can make his own decision, and he doesn't need to be coached and he can independently act instinctively, though it would be hard for a first time mafia player to do so. I just disagree with the importance of being the last vote on a civilian and I dislike the fact that you're not considering worlds where seanzie is town and optically Dennis looks the exact same no matter where he votes. So I have not and will not clear him for such stuff as voting a town there

similarly there's a world where seanzie is scum and Dennis outted himself (very unlikely but possible), but I'm not really considering this whatsoever, just wanna say it because it's actually possible

I personally have coldread Dennis on multiple occasions and he's locktown for me, regardless of eod except in the aforementioned world

I do think this is unlikely though after thinking about it, which makes Dennis/seanzie never w/w

[Dennis]

I don't like your logic because of he fact that he can make his own decision, and he doesn't need to be coached and he can independently act instinctively, though it would be hard for a first time mafia player to do so. I just disagree with the importance of being the last vote on a civilian and I dislike the fact that you're not considering worlds where seanzie is town and optically Dennis looks the exact same no matter where he votes. So I have not and will not clear him for such stuff as voting a town there

similarly there's a world where seanzie is scum and Dennis outted himself (very unlikely but possible), but I'm not really considering this whatsoever, just wanna say it because it's actually possible

I personally have coldread Dennis on multiple occasions and he's locktown for me, regardless of eod except in the aforementioned world

What's a coldread?

[robyn]

like I can read a few words or a single message and just *know* the alignment of someone, and I am never wrong in it, happens once per game for me and it happens very easily when I'm dealing with new players such as yourself which doesn't count towards my 1 wolf per day quota

[robyn]

per game*

[Golden]

I doubt it, I don't think a team would have let him do that. I think he panicked.

let him do what?

Voted to push a civ over the edge.

this has the underlying assumption that seanzie is mafia, what's your read on seanzie and degree of confidence

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

[robyn]

I don't like the golden votes, would much rather kill an inactive or seanzie today, even though I don't really have a read on golden besides they're an active participant of this game

[Sabiplz]

We don't have miselims to use on in actives.

[Sabiplz]

Lucy usually doesn't push lhf...

[Golden]

I don't like the golden votes, would much rather kill an inactive or seanzie today, even though I don't really have a read on golden besides they're an active participant of this game

Seanzies vote on me is fine, he thinks I’m trying to white night him.

Scotty’s vote is so manufactured that it’ll still be floating in the Pacific garbage island 2000 years from now.

[robyn]

Scotty’s vote is so manufactured that it’ll still be floating in the Pacific garbage island 2000 years from now.

agreed on scotty playing poorly, but I don't think that's wolf indicative

[Golden]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

[Sabiplz]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

You haven't played in years.

[Golden]

Scotty’s vote is so manufactured that it’ll still be floating in the Pacific garbage island 2000 years from now.

agreed on scotty playing poorly, but I don't think that's wolf indicative

Ouch!

This is a bit rough. Strikes me as wolfy for a few reasons, but if its actually town I think it’s more about confo bias from anniversary than anything.

[Kate]

I don't like your logic because of he fact that he can make his own decision, and he doesn't need to be coached and he can independently act instinctively, though it would be hard for a first time mafia player to do so. I just disagree with the importance of being the last vote on a civilian and I dislike the fact that you're not considering worlds where seanzie is town and optically Dennis looks the exact same no matter where he votes. So I have not and will not clear him for such stuff as voting a town there

similarly there's a world where seanzie is scum and Dennis outted himself (very unlikely but possible), but I'm not really considering this whatsoever, just wanna say it because it's actually possible

I personally have coldread Dennis on multiple occasions and he's locktown for me, regardless of eod except in the aforementioned world

I agree that he absolutely can and did, in fact, make his own decision.

You can't imagine a world where a mafia team might help a teammate who is 14 and a first time player? I'm not sure what you're saying here exactly.

I don't think he's mafia, we are agreeing.

[Golden]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

You haven't played in years.

This is also an objectively bad take on whether my take is objectively bad.

[robyn]

Scotty’s vote is so manufactured that it’ll still be floating in the Pacific garbage island 2000 years from now.

agreed on scotty playing poorly, but I don't think that's wolf indicative

Ouch!

This is a bit rough. Strikes me as wolfy for a few reasons, but if its actually town I think it’s more about confo bias from anniversary than anything.

can you elaborate on how you find scotty to be wolfy

[Dennis]

I think I've noticed a pattern--Older players would rather have a civ alive and no info, newer players would rather elim a civ and get the info. I've now successfully read all of you and expect praise. (I realize this is a surface level analysis, but I felt cool when I thought it and now I want to share.)

[robyn]

I'm gonna sleep, I'm tired, cya guys tomorrow, the thread feels productive

[Kate]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

You haven't played in years.

What's that supposed to mean?

[robyn]

I think I've noticed a pattern--Older players would rather have a civ alive and no info, newer players would rather elim a civ and get the info. I've now successfully read all of you and expect praise. (I realize this is a surface level analysis, but I felt cool when I thought it and now I want to share.)

which side of the fence do you fall on?

[Kate]

I think I've noticed a pattern--Older players would rather have a civ alive and no info, newer players would rather elim a civ and get the info. I've now successfully read all of you and expect praise. (I realize this is a surface level analysis, but I felt cool when I thought it and now I want to share.)

I praise thee, stool pigeon.

[Golden]

Scotty’s vote is so manufactured that it’ll still be floating in the Pacific garbage island 2000 years from now.

agreed on scotty playing poorly, but I don't think that's wolf indicative

Ouch!

This is a bit rough. Strikes me as wolfy for a few reasons, but if its actually town I think it’s more about confo bias from anniversary than anything.

can you elaborate on how you find scotty to be wolfy

He’s trying to find ways to compare my play this game to anniversary, but they don’t exist.

The idea that the marmot kill looks bad on me is bad for two reasons:

1) the first two kills in anniversary were on people who top town read me. And they were team choices, but they were chosen exactly because conclusions like the one Scotty just made would be wrong.
2) marmot wasn’t even that far out on me by eod.

But the marmot kill being a ploy to start a wagon on me? That vibes right.

[Kate]

I think I've noticed a pattern--Older players would rather have a civ alive and no info, newer players would rather elim a civ and get the info. I've now successfully read all of you and expect praise. (I realize this is a surface level analysis, but I felt cool when I thought it and now I want to share.)

which side of the fence do you fall on?

Good question. Dennis?

Plus it's not that we'd have NO info, we'd have less.

[Sabiplz]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

You haven't played in years.

What's that supposed to mean?

He doesn't under meta has changed and calling it bad without realizing why the meta is this way seems weird. Like atleast you and svs have thoughts and tried to open your pov to it but he's shutting it down.

[Golden]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

You haven't played in years.

What's that supposed to mean?

To be fair, I haven’t been going to the gym

[Kate]

I realllly miss linki.

[Dennis]

I think I've noticed a pattern--Older players would rather have a civ alive and no info, newer players would rather elim a civ and get the info. I've now successfully read all of you and expect praise. (I realize this is a surface level analysis, but I felt cool when I thought it and now I want to share.)

which side of the fence do you fall on?

That's an excellent question. I'm still struggling with it myself, but I find myself wishing I hadn't killed Wilgy. Honestly, it's the guilt that gets me. That and we could've just lost a very high reputation civvie. So I think I'm with the older players, and THAT is probably because I was raised by one of the older players and somewhere in there I was taught 'killing people is bad'. So, I would probably have Wilgy alive still.

[Kate]

Also, the meta that non-elims are bad for town on day zero is objectively bad imo.

You haven't played in years.

What's that supposed to mean?

To be fair, I haven’t been going to the gym

Yea your game seems way off

[Dennis]

I think I've noticed a pattern--Older players would rather have a civ alive and no info, newer players would rather elim a civ and get the info. I've now successfully read all of you and expect praise. (I realize this is a surface level analysis, but I felt cool when I thought it and now I want to share.)

which side of the fence do you fall on?

Good question. Dennis?

Plus it's not that we'd have NO info, we'd have less.

See? Another similarity. We both complimented your question. Could be complete coincidence, but for now I'm willing to say Kate and I will play relatively similar.