Re: Hogwarts Mafia - Day 2
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 pm
Yeah that does look pretty El Clasico, you're right.
I did see it yes, though I admit that I had previously thought it came later in the phase. It was early in the EST morning, so it wasn't as close to the EOD region as I'd thought (when the general climate of suspicion was shifting or had shifted to the TH and Owner split). So that's a bit better than the alternative, as in backing away from suspicion when the climate wasn't ideal for its being pushed. You must understand though that in that post your assessment of me was still negative. I didn't appear to be the civ Jay you know. You weren't wild about my logic. My transgressions had to be overlooked to give me a break. You didn't call for my destruction, but that's not a positive assessment of my play in this game.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:21 pmI attacked Quin, because attacking Quin is a nice way to make things happen early in a thread. Quin is responsive, and it is something likely to become A Thing in general thread dialogue -- and from that, a Mafia game may be born. Your response to that is one that bugs me, because your defense of Quin was as empty as my attack. If Quin's accusation really was that of a "slip", then it was quite silly -- you called it "natural", and I find that dubious.
How is that in the least bit negative? I posted it after reviewing what you and others said as of the end of the first day of the phase.Spoiler: show
https://media1.tenor.com/images/6410fce ... /tenor.gifJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:46 pm Hey neat! That's really neat! That's like, well, it's just so neat!
Generally your 'getting the ball rolling' accusations have substance. There's a clear difference here.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:28 pm EBWOPing this since I butchered the code.
I attacked Quin, because attacking Quin is a nice way to make things happen early in a thread. Quin is responsive, and it is something likely to become A Thing in general thread dialogue -- and from that, a Mafia game may be born. Your response to that is one that bugs me, because your defense of Quin was as empty as my attack. If Quin's accusation really was that of a "slip", then it was quite silly -- you called it "natural", and I find that dubious.
I did see it yes, though I admit that I had previously thought it came later in the phase. It was early in the EST morning, so it wasn't as close to the EOD region as I'd thought (when the general climate of suspicion was shifting or had shifted to the TH and Owner split). So that's a bit better than the alternative, as in backing away from suspicion when the climate wasn't ideal for its being pushed. You must understand though that in that post your assessment of me was still negative. I didn't appear to be the civ Jay you know. You weren't wild about my logic. My transgressions had to be overlooked to give me a break. You didn't call for my destruction, but that's not a positive assessment of my play in this game.
Also note that I have highlighted in blue some of the components of your post here. There's a tone of assertiveness and even combativeness that I am simply not used to seeing in juliets posts. I won't pretend that these are hyper-suspicious things, but you are a very difficult player to read. If you're a mafioso, then I believe it's little things like this that will get you caught. You're too careful for big mistakes. So scrutiny is extremely important in your case.
My perspective that you were contributing to the negative climate surrounding me stems from your approach to my treatment of Quin, beyond that discussed in this post. example / example
My impression was that whether you believed in an accusation or not, there was always some reasoning behind it on Day 1. Wanna throw me a couple of games to show me otherwise?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pmNo, they really don't. People may think so, but I'm always full of shit.![]()
Oh there is a reason. I don't merely say "Quin is bad!". I say "Quin is bad because X!"Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:18 pmMy impression was that whether you believed in an accusation or not, there was always some reasoning behind it on Day 1. Wanna throw me a couple of games to show me otherwise?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pmNo, they really don't. People may think so, but I'm always full of shit.![]()
luckily kyle has just now arrived to verify this so i don't have toJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:21 pmOh there is a reason. I don't merely say "Quin is bad!". I say "Quin is bad because X!"Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:18 pmMy impression was that whether you believed in an accusation or not, there was always some reasoning behind it on Day 1. Wanna throw me a couple of games to show me otherwise?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pmNo, they really don't. People may think so, but I'm always full of shit.![]()
X might absolutely be stupid as hell, but I don't care about that. It provides something that demands a specific response beyond "No, JJJ, I am not bad!". I don't have time right now to go on an archaeological dig through my old games, but I can think of one example that you could look for on your own if you like -- Fiddler on the Roof, when I completely made up a "tell" that revealed Kyle as a mafioso just so it'd be something to talk about.
juliets made two "what's going on?" posts on Day 1. The second kind of contradicts the first since I'd expect she go through at least the effort to figure out if things can happen on Day 1 and realise that there isn't anything "tangible" out there at this point.juliets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:46 pmI'd like to see what was behind her "I have my reasons" about DH just in case it's something tangible that happened in this game that I overlooked.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:41 pm Owner's suspicion of DH reads ingenuine
Her defense of the Deathly Hallows/Dark Arts thing wasn't even needed, but she overexplained it in a way that looked nervous
Are there any other facets to the case there?
In fairness I am inclined to doubt that this is a juliets mafioso method. Indeed, I rarely see the "feign ignorance about the setup" thing bear fruit for anyone apart from instances in which players talk at length about mechanics and not about reads.
yeah that was true. it happened and i was real mad about it, but it led to good things and created a greater understanding of Jay's meta for meQuin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:22 pmluckily kyle has just now arrived to verify this so i don't have toJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:21 pmOh there is a reason. I don't merely say "Quin is bad!". I say "Quin is bad because X!"Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:18 pmMy impression was that whether you believed in an accusation or not, there was always some reasoning behind it on Day 1. Wanna throw me a couple of games to show me otherwise?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pmNo, they really don't. People may think so, but I'm always full of shit.![]()
X might absolutely be stupid as hell, but I don't care about that. It provides something that demands a specific response beyond "No, JJJ, I am not bad!". I don't have time right now to go on an archaeological dig through my old games, but I can think of one example that you could look for on your own if you like -- Fiddler on the Roof, when I completely made up a "tell" that revealed Kyle as a mafioso just so it'd be something to talk about.
How do you feel about Jay in this game?Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:36 pmyeah that was true. it happened and i was real mad about it, but it led to good things and created a greater understanding of Jay's meta for meQuin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:22 pmluckily kyle has just now arrived to verify this so i don't have toJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:21 pmOh there is a reason. I don't merely say "Quin is bad!". I say "Quin is bad because X!"Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:18 pmMy impression was that whether you believed in an accusation or not, there was always some reasoning behind it on Day 1. Wanna throw me a couple of games to show me otherwise?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pmNo, they really don't. People may think so, but I'm always full of shit.![]()
X might absolutely be stupid as hell, but I don't care about that. It provides something that demands a specific response beyond "No, JJJ, I am not bad!". I don't have time right now to go on an archaeological dig through my old games, but I can think of one example that you could look for on your own if you like -- Fiddler on the Roof, when I completely made up a "tell" that revealed Kyle as a mafioso just so it'd be something to talk about.
idk yet. i want to review his posts in the light of the comparison he's made to fiddler, because it doesn't feel exactly the same to me, and I'm not sure if it's just cus he wasn't around to do follow up cus he was at the backstreet boys or if it has lack of a similar intentQuin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:38 pmHow do you feel about Jay in this game?Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:36 pmyeah that was true. it happened and i was real mad about it, but it led to good things and created a greater understanding of Jay's meta for meQuin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:22 pmluckily kyle has just now arrived to verify this so i don't have toJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:21 pmOh there is a reason. I don't merely say "Quin is bad!". I say "Quin is bad because X!"Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:18 pmMy impression was that whether you believed in an accusation or not, there was always some reasoning behind it on Day 1. Wanna throw me a couple of games to show me otherwise?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:15 pmNo, they really don't. People may think so, but I'm always full of shit.![]()
X might absolutely be stupid as hell, but I don't care about that. It provides something that demands a specific response beyond "No, JJJ, I am not bad!". I don't have time right now to go on an archaeological dig through my old games, but I can think of one example that you could look for on your own if you like -- Fiddler on the Roof, when I completely made up a "tell" that revealed Kyle as a mafioso just so it'd be something to talk about.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:06 pm Alright, I'm now caught up.
Most of the Day so far has just been two different squabbles over semantics. The whole Epi-Juliets thing has been more or less baffling in its scattershot legitimacy. It's the kind of thing that JJJ usually pushes, except with less actual substance, which makes me a tad sus of JJJ. Then there's the whole Owner/DH thing. It definitely feels like Owner is stuck replaying Firefly, while the rest of us are playing a new game. This regression could be scummy or not, depends on what else Owner decides to bring to the table. So far, I ain't impressed.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:04 pmWould you trust other people who have played with DH over a ton of games and have seen him as both scum and civ if they were to tell you that you were barking up the wrong tree with your meta characterization of him?Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:02 pmIt's not a regression. It is potentially a meta thing.insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:06 pm Alright, I'm now caught up.
Most of the Day so far has just been two different squabbles over semantics. The whole Epi-Juliets thing has been more or less baffling in its scattershot legitimacy. It's the kind of thing that JJJ usually pushes, except with less actual substance, which makes me a tad sus of JJJ. Then there's the whole Owner/DH thing. It definitely feels like Owner is stuck replaying Firefly, while the rest of us are playing a new game. This regression could be scummy or not, depends on what else Owner decides to bring to the table. So far, I ain't impressed.
I don't get the impression that INH was interested in learning something about Owner's motives in this progression. Instead, it looks like to me like he is giving Owner shit for pursuing an errant thread of suspicion (potentially TMI on DH, to boot) and deciding to participate in her murder when it appears viable. Indeed, the highlighted portion is key: I think his read is hardly justified on her, and his "other reads" do not exist.insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:02 pm I'm gonna drop a vote on Owner. Her efforts so far just seem disingenuous. Her "read" of DH is unjustified baloney, and her other reads are substance-less.
Hopefully I'll be able to participate more on Day 2, and I want to do some more research into JJJ and TH.
OWNER
Hey [mention]Quin[/mention] the second post was me talking about the fact that I had asked OoaLH several questions that she hadn't yet answered. One of the things I asked her about was what she meant by "I have my reasons" regarding thinking DH was a baddie. I wasn't saying "whats going on?", I was expressing to speed that I was still waiting for her answers. If I've misunderstood your point just let me know.Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:30 pm Anyway, on juliets:
Tonally, I don't see an alignment. Her politeness is making it hard to tell. One observation I have very little opinion on but I'll post nonetheless:
juliets made two "what's going on?" posts on Day 1. The second kind of contradicts the first since I'd expect she go through at least the effort to figure out if things can happen on Day 1 and realise that there isn't anything "tangible" out there at this point.juliets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:46 pmI'd like to see what was behind her "I have my reasons" about DH just in case it's something tangible that happened in this game that I overlooked.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:41 pm Owner's suspicion of DH reads ingenuine
Her defense of the Deathly Hallows/Dark Arts thing wasn't even needed, but she overexplained it in a way that looked nervous
Are there any other facets to the case there?
Anyone find this productive?poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:21 pmIf they're scum they would have more urge to not be modblocked so they can use their abilitiesJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:16 pmI'm sorry but I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make. nova has 0 posts in the game, regardless of phase. lapluie has one post in the game, regardless of phase. I have no basis on which to read nova at all, and as such I followed the math. I have one post on which to read lap, and it's at least mildly icky (as is the implied awareness of the game following from that post without having returned).poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:14 pmBecause modblock only happen if someone doesn't post for an entire DPJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:12 pm Not really. A check-in post can come whenever. Why does that Day 0/1 distinction matter?![]()
D0 has no effect on D1 post count.D0 has no effect on that, D1 is. I don't get how you read Lap as bad due to you viewing her 1 post on D0 as she did it because she urged to.
I did see it yes, though I admit that I had previously thought it came later in the phase. It was early in the EST morning, so it wasn't as close to the EOD region as I'd thought (when the general climate of suspicion was shifting or had shifted to the TH and Owner split). So that's a bit better than the alternative, as in backing away from suspicion when the climate wasn't ideal for its being pushed. You must understand though that in that post your assessment of me was still negative. I didn't appear to be the civ Jay you know. You weren't wild about my logic. My transgressions had to be overlooked to give me a break. You didn't call for my destruction, but that's not a positive assessment of my play in this game.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:21 pmI attacked Quin, because attacking Quin is a nice way to make things happen early in a thread. Quin is responsive, and it is something likely to become A Thing in general thread dialogue -- and from that, a Mafia game may be born. Your response to that is one that bugs me, because your defense of Quin was as empty as my attack. If Quin's accusation really was that of a "slip", then it was quite silly -- you called it "natural", and I find that dubious.
How is that in the least bit negative? I posted it after reviewing what you and others said as of the end of the first day of the phase.Spoiler: show
Is this the first ever NO-U by a third party.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:11 pminsertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:06 pm Alright, I'm now caught up.
Most of the Day so far has just been two different squabbles over semantics. The whole Epi-Juliets thing has been more or less baffling in its scattershot legitimacy. It's the kind of thing that JJJ usually pushes, except with less actual substance, which makes me a tad sus of JJJ. Then there's the whole Owner/DH thing. It definitely feels like Owner is stuck replaying Firefly, while the rest of us are playing a new game. This regression could be scummy or not, depends on what else Owner decides to bring to the table. So far, I ain't impressed.insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:04 pmWould you trust other people who have played with DH over a ton of games and have seen him as both scum and civ if they were to tell you that you were barking up the wrong tree with your meta characterization of him?Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:02 pmIt's not a regression. It is potentially a meta thing.insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:06 pm Alright, I'm now caught up.
Most of the Day so far has just been two different squabbles over semantics. The whole Epi-Juliets thing has been more or less baffling in its scattershot legitimacy. It's the kind of thing that JJJ usually pushes, except with less actual substance, which makes me a tad sus of JJJ. Then there's the whole Owner/DH thing. It definitely feels like Owner is stuck replaying Firefly, while the rest of us are playing a new game. This regression could be scummy or not, depends on what else Owner decides to bring to the table. So far, I ain't impressed.I don't get the impression that INH was interested in learning something about Owner's motives in this progression. Instead, it looks like to me like he is giving Owner shit for pursuing an errant thread of suspicion (potentially TMI on DH, to boot) and deciding to participate in her murder when it appears viable. Indeed, the highlighted portion is key: I think his read is hardly justified on her, and his "other reads" do not exist.insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:02 pm I'm gonna drop a vote on Owner. Her efforts so far just seem disingenuous. Her "read" of DH is unjustified baloney, and her other reads are substance-less.
Hopefully I'll be able to participate more on Day 2, and I want to do some more research into JJJ and TH.
OWNER
[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine
Protip: On Day 1, I don't need reasons to suspect people.Lunalee wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:06 amActually the poll was a three-way tie at the time (and Owner was one of the three) I started making this post.Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:11 pmIf Owner had three or four or five or six votes (I think I heard all of these numbers) around the time this post was made, ask yourself what its purpose was.Spoiler: show
The language of this post doesn't suggest "gut" at all, but rather is assertive and sure of itself in a way that doesn't ring true with respect to mere intuition.
"Engages with Epi in his player salad post."
I suppose in this day and age if you name more than two people as suspects, you are guilty of making a "salad" or some nonsense such as that. I named my four top suspects at the time. I ask you, is there a way I can do that without someone being able to characterize it as a "salad?"
"Epi tries to distance himself from Owner"
The biggest issue I have with this particular comment is its circularity: It assumes the conclusion it aims to support is true, which is the only way the premise can be true. This suggests to me that Lunalee is less interested in figuring out if I'm bad or not and more interested in making it look like I am bad should Owner be lynched and be revealed as bad.
" Owner produces their own player salad post and lists Epi as "null""
And? What about it?
I submit that when it appeared likely that Owner was on the way out the door, Lunalee used one of my own favorite mafia tricks in the book: Getting a preemptive start on the next Day.
I started looking at Owner's ISO, and I thought, "hey with the way Owner and Epi have interacted with each other, what if they were scum mates?"
Throwing out actual reasons you suspect 4 people is better than just saying you suspect those 4 people. That to me is what makes the difference between "player salad" and "here are my suspects."
The reason I thought is was strange that Owner lists you as "null" was because she seemed to have opinions on everyone else she interacted with except you.
Those were my thoughts, and admittedly I threw out my "gut read" post without a ton of thought, but it was close to EOD, and I thought it might be useful for discussion.
Meaning she tried to hem you up knowing Owner would flip bad, or meaning she tried to hem you up once Owner flipped civ?I submit that when it appeared likely that Owner was on the way out the door, Lunalee used one of my own favorite mafia tricks in the book: Getting a preemptive start on the next Day.