The Syndicate

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:49 am Announcement

@colonialbob @MacDougall

You are both racist for voting in the night poll.

Predators don't represent black people because that sends the message that black people used to be "savage" until they decided to be more like white people, making it safe for both races to live together. Additionally, that would make the main character arc a story about how a scrappy white police officer overcomes racism against white people to save the day. Bob is racist for thinking this is the case.

Prey doesn't represent black people because then the movie is about how white on black violence is actually a plot concocted by black people to make white people look bad. This from a movie that comes on the heels of high profile incidents like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner, would be incredibly racist. Mac is racist for believing this is the case.

They're also both racist for comparing black people to animals. In a game about a children's movie no less. You should both be ashamed of yourselves.

Spoiler: show

In all seriousness, the truth is that despite being framed as a allegory about race relations in America, Zootopia doesn't say anything at all about racism. There is no systemic racism in Zootopia. It merely contains individuals like Mr. Hopps who believe in untrue sterotypes about other animals, individuals like Bellweather who use this individual prejudice to their advantage and jokes/plot points that use whatever animal is convenient as a metaphor for whatever race is convenient but only for the duration of the joke or as it relates to that specific plot point.

The message of equality and tolerance is entirely undercut by the fact that different mammals are waaaaaaaaaay more different than people of different skin colors. A woman that clutches her purse closely in the elevator when a big black man enters but does not do the same when a similarly sized white man enters is racist. As far as she knows, these men are the same but for their skin color. A rabbit who is fine sitting next to a sheep but not sitting next to a wolf is justified because unlike a sheep, a wolf can fucking eat her and it is a plot point that wolves used to go around eating rabbits. Both sidesing the issue and saying that everyone just needs to not judge people by the color of their skin is the most patronizing level 1 message you could possibly have as the conclusion to your movie about racism and that's exactly what Zootopia does.

To be fair, it's really hard even for movies that are not aimed primarily at children to say something insightful about race without being entirely ham-handed about it. Crash won best picture in 2004 and it is just as shallow as Zootopia while spending far less time with likable characters. If you haven't seen it, Zootopia is still more than worth watching because it is at the very least incredibly funny. There are several scenes that I can watch over and over and laugh at every time and that's worth something, even without a deep message.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:04 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:47 pm I'm on [VOTE: Kyle] aubergine for now btw

Why Kyle?

You've mentioned 0 suspicion of him all game, and in fact have called him town multiple times.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:46 pm

Spoiler: show

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 pm I don't object. What's your view?

Well, largely PoE.

Also, a little bit of hinkyness from Bob himself. I was looking back, and noticed he had started being on my radar for quite a while, but was like staying quiet and not drawing attention to himself.

There was that Day 1 vote weirdness, and an explanation post that uses some of the excuses about wonky voting I've used before as mafia (association bias, I acknowledge):

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:41 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:36 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:11 pm A decision is better than random and I prefer soneji to the other two with two votes so [VOTE: soneji] aubergine

What made you go from voting me to voting the wagon I started?
Also the votes were not tied when you voted. Nut had already voted Soneji here.
Why did you prefer Soneji over Kyle and Daisy?

Clearly nobody was going to vote with me, and there was a three way tie that I did not care for. I was sus of you, sure, but it's day 1, there's only so strong a sus can be.

They were tied when I started that post, 2 v 2 v 2. With literally a minute before EOD it's not like there was time to check what had actually happened in the linki. Actually I changed my vote before posting to make sure I made it before the poll closed and it jumped from 2 to 4 votes, but again didn't have time to check who had voted or anything.

Kyle is a player who generally takes time to ease into a game and is (generally) not somebody I'm ever interested in d1. I feel relatively good about my ability to read him as the game progresses. Daisy was absentee and had some questionable voting patterns associated with her. Soneji was the only one of the three with actual reasons to be sus.

(Also sorry for the broken tag I manually typed the slash and used the wrong direction like a real dumbass)

((also sorry for being racist against asses, donkeys, and other members of subgenus Asinus))

Then, he told me this:

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:24 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:14 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.

I'm spit balling here, indulge me.

With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?

If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?

Trust the cop until they're outed.

And Mac's very last post was this:

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:23 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am Ok, I'm home on the computer. Indulge me for a minute and allow me to completely let go of paranoia for just momentarily. I'm looking at the player list. And if I go ahead and let myself fully trust even those people I don't 100% trust, I'm curious what my suspect pool will look like. Anyone who has given me a town ping at some point in the game I'm counting as town in this PoE exercise.


coloniabob
jinrou


That's who I'm left with. Who are YOU left with, if you do your own GTH reads, and don't allow yourself to have ANY nulls at all? What does your PoE look like? In your gut, or in your heart, or whatever organ you mafia with. (Ye perverts!)


This is before I've done another read-through or vote analysis, it's just my general sense of who feels town to me this game.

Welcome to my brain 12 hours ago

Linki - Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.

What day 1 vote weirdness? If you think I bussed, say that.

I fail to see how that response is scummy.

Sure, you and Mac suspected me and jinrou. So what? If you're trying to say that's why Mac died, why wouldn't you be the target? After all you're a lot higher on most people's civ list than he was.

I think you may have bussed. Happy?

Also, have you understood ANY of the reasons behind ANY of the night kills up to this point? Why would they start making sense now? And why would you choose to use that argument when the NKs have been beyond kooky since Night 1?


Linki with myself!!!
OMG I'VE CREATED A HOLE IN THE TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM WITH MY CONTINUED USE OF MULTI-TABS!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:47 pm I'm on [VOTE: Kyle] aubergine for now btw

why

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:24 pm My problem with people like Logic and Jinrou is that I have no standard by which to judge them.

Jinrou marching in here acting like "Golly, Mafia is just about finding the guys doing anti-town things is where it's at!" has me scratching me head. Jinrou, if it's that easy, do you ever lose as a civilian?

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:14 pm Logic's most recent games:

Spoiler: show

Town
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ampionship

Town sub-in for a zero-poster (anonymous game; I'm Jim Halpert here)
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ing-3-0%29

Town Sub-in
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ewolf-Game

Scum
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... fia-Game-B

Scum sub-in
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... fia-Game-A

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:07 am My townpile is
Dizzy
Indy
Epi

My sort later
Kyle

My POE
ColBob
Owner
LC
Jinrou

I'd prefer to lynch from the bottom of this list up. I'm okay with being placed in the vicinity of Kyle or Bob.

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:05 am I guess it wasn't permanent.
[VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:33 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

I think these are good opinions*

*except I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion of what the bastard part of this game is

• miller claim
• several players with suddenly "good feelings" about another

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:47 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:33 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

I think these are good opinions*

*except I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion of what the bastard part of this game is

I'm actually starting to think we might be on the same page here.

• miller claim
• several players with suddenly "good feelings" about another

What do you guys think that means? I have an idea, and am willing to state it outright if no one wants to guess first.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:55 am I did indeed. How many cops can a game handle?

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:08 am I'm willing to exclude the 3 of us from the POE pool. This feels like something that would be hard for a mafioso to fake being part of.

So if I assume for the moment that our results are worthless, that gives us logic, LC, and myself as town. Willing to stay with indiglo and dizzy as town as well. Which would mean Epi, Kyle, Jinrou, Owner are the POE. Thoughts?

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:17 am Oh jack, you magnificent bastard

I don't know Juliet, so I'm not going to call her any names.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:21 am Now you guys understand why I was asking about trusting cop results? Lol. When jinrou copped town, I was seriously dumbstruck.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:22 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:21 am Now you guys understand why I was asking about trusting cop results? Lol. When jinrou copped town, I was seriously dumbstruck.

Yeah that question makes way more sense now.

Probably should iso those people, but I feel epi as least scummy in my gut.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:29 am I happen to think Kyle is town leaning.
Would much rather go for jinrou and owner over kyle.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:32 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

LC, this is when I was 100% sure you were a cop too. I had suspected it already.

Just for the record, THIS is how we used to info-dump on LP back when info-dumping was illegal.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:33 pm
I realize my answer isn't a good enough answer given our cultural differences.

Let me try again:

Long Con comes from a time when role claiming wasn't allowed, and so do I. I am more comfortable claiming, and he is probably not.

No matter: What does mafia Long Con have to gain jumping to a civilian speedchuck's defense five minutes before his lynch? What's in it for him except to bring scrutiny to him?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:04 pm Here are the cop types I know about, aside odd night, even night, or 1 shot cops.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cop

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Are you a wolf?

Not, like, a werewolf, just a regular wolf.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:20 am Jack: "hey look at me I'm the chief of police"
Also jack: *fills the game with worthless cops*

Kinda makes you think.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:09 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Are you a wolf?

Not, like, a werewolf, just a regular wolf.

I don't think this wording really helps. Couldn't someone just say no because in most cases their animal in this game woulsn't be a wolf?

I guess there were a few wolves in movie though.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:24 pm or wait sec!! what if investigate as town means that town = prey and scum/mafia = predator? but then again all the checks are town though...hmmm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Are you a wolf?

Not, like, a werewolf, just a regular wolf.