The Syndicate

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

I feel like you are playing a mafia game that parallels the one the rest of us our playing, like you're not playing this game fully, with your teammate compatibility angle.

I don't understand this post.

You blamed me for Spacedaisy's lynch.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:25 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:20 am Why bark like that at someone you have a civ read on? You are a dominant voice and you could discourage her from continuing to analyse the game. If she is civ you should encourage her.

I'm sick of hearing about how suspicious I am. I already know my role card. I just swatted your accusation away derisively too.

If people suspect me then that's great. I don't care to waste my time talking about these little guesses about what sinister machinations JJJ may be up to. Very few people seem to get me.

If anyone feels discouraged by my being a grouch, then don't be. You play your hearts out.

Okay but if she is a civ read there is value in exploring her read on you and refuting it with content because she has value as a teammate. As it stands your post will do nothing to remove her doubt about you so one of your civ reads will remain focused on you rather than players you think are Mafia. Sorry if I'm not making sense.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:26 am @MacDougall

I feel like you are playing a mafia game that parallels the one the rest of us our playing, like you're not playing this game fully, with your teammate compatibility angle.

I don't understand this post.

You blamed me for Spacedaisy's lynch.

That's fair because I feel the same way. My perspectives are different to most. This always happens. When I find Mafia they tend to be the players everyone else misses and I am blind to the ones the majority catch.

I thought I explained very clearly why I went to group 3. The players I had scum reads on in group 1 and 2 were either not up for lynch or posting content that made me doubt my reads. I even made a point of saying it's time to consider that there are a lot of mafia in group 3. I picked you two out mostly because you were more front of mind than the others.

You were the one who posed whether I would feel differently if Daisy were the one catching votes when you were. And that was what caught my hastily thought through vote that ended up stuck on her wagon.

I haven't solved you. Some of your content looks civvie but I am gut reading you scum.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:29 am Okay but if she is a civ read there is value in exploring her read on you and refuting it with content because she has value as a teammate. As it stands your post will do nothing to remove her doubt about you so one of your civ reads will remain focused on you rather than players you think are Mafia. Sorry if I'm not making sense.

You're making sense. We fundamentally disagree about the utility of self-defense. I think the effort necessary to "remove her doubt", if that's even possible, is greater than it's worth -- it would hinder my play as much as or more than it'd help hers. It might be different for some people who are not me.

People are going to tinfoil on me and try to tease apart my tiniest motives until the end of Mafia time. Trying to combat that is not productive, because no matter how hard I try people are still not going to understand the way I play this game as keenly as I do. I accepted that a long time ago. If I am suspicious then I am probably going to remain suspicious until hard information turns that for the better. And where self-defense may not work, continued effort to do the things that I believe matter more (solving the game) might serve that function anyway. It has before.

This is a philosophical decision.

Thank you for answering me btw.

Do you consider players who appear to be reading the play differently to the consensus generally scummy?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:36 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:29 am Okay but if she is a civ read there is value in exploring her read on you and refuting it with content because she has value as a teammate. As it stands your post will do nothing to remove her doubt about you so one of your civ reads will remain focused on you rather than players you think are Mafia. Sorry if I'm not making sense.

You're making sense. We fundamentally disagree about the utility of self-defense. I think the effort necessary to "remove her doubt", if that's even possible, is greater than it's worth -- it would hinder my play as much as or more than it'd help hers. It might be different for some people who are not me.

People are going to tinfoil on me and try to tease apart my tiniest motives until the end of Mafia time. Trying to combat that is not productive, because no matter how hard I try people are still not going to understand the way I play this game as keenly as I do. I accepted that a long time ago. If I am suspicious then I am probably going to remain suspicious until hard information turns that for the better. And where self-defense may not work, continued effort to do the things that I believe matter more (solving the game) might serve that function anyway. It has before.

This is a philosophical decision.

You're right that we disagree. I don't think people would be unable to be talked around if you gave them insight into your mind. Perhaps that occurred one too many times with a player or two who were too pig headed to care but I don't think that way of the majority of people here.

I could definitely appreciate why you would react that way to me or Golden or Zebra.

Thanks for the explanation.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:35 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:26 am @MacDougall

I feel like you are playing a mafia game that parallels the one the rest of us our playing, like you're not playing this game fully, with your teammate compatibility angle.

I don't understand this post.

You blamed me for Spacedaisy's lynch.

That's fair because I feel the same way. My perspectives are different to most. This always happens. When I find Mafia they tend to be the players everyone else misses and I am blind to the ones the majority catch.

I thought I explained very clearly why I went to group 3. The players I had scum reads on in group 1 and 2 were either not up for lynch or posting content that made me doubt my reads. I even made a point of saying it's time to consider that there are a lot of mafia in group 3. I picked you two out mostly because you were more front of mind than the others.

You were the one who posed whether I would feel differently if Daisy were the one catching votes when you were. And that was what caught my hastily thought through vote that ended up stuck on her wagon.

I haven't solved you. Some of your content looks civvie but I am gut reading you scum.

Spacedaisy wasn't up for a lynch... Until she suddenly was.

My point was, you went for the low-hanging fruit, Dr. Wilgy and Marmot. I'm also pretty sure also stated that the thread was moving in the direction of lynching me because of you (although I can't find that post right now). You're capable of doing such things, so why not push it towards a higher-profile suspect?

I don't think you cared that Spacedaisy was lynched. I get that you voted her in the end, but I'm not sure how meaningful it was.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:20 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:04 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.

I don’t care.

Do you think nutella is mafia?

Light green skittle.

Why bark like that at someone you have a civ read on? You are a dominant voice and you could discourage her from continuing to analyse the game. If she is civ you should encourage her.

lmao oh yeah I'm so intimidated by the big scary boys, such a discouraging environment

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:46 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:35 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:26 am @MacDougall

I feel like you are playing a mafia game that parallels the one the rest of us our playing, like you're not playing this game fully, with your teammate compatibility angle.

I don't understand this post.

You blamed me for Spacedaisy's lynch.

That's fair because I feel the same way. My perspectives are different to most. This always happens. When I find Mafia they tend to be the players everyone else misses and I am blind to the ones the majority catch.

I thought I explained very clearly why I went to group 3. The players I had scum reads on in group 1 and 2 were either not up for lynch or posting content that made me doubt my reads. I even made a point of saying it's time to consider that there are a lot of mafia in group 3. I picked you two out mostly because you were more front of mind than the others.

You were the one who posed whether I would feel differently if Daisy were the one catching votes when you were. And that was what caught my hastily thought through vote that ended up stuck on her wagon.

I haven't solved you. Some of your content looks civvie but I am gut reading you scum.

Spacedaisy wasn't up for a lynch... Until she suddenly was.

My point was, you went for the low-hanging fruit, Dr. Wilgy and Marmot. I'm also pretty sure also stated that the thread was moving in the direction of lynching me because of you (although I can't find that post right now). You're capable of doing such things, so why not push it towards a higher-profile suspect?

I don't think you cared that Spacedaisy was lynched. I get that you voted her in the end, but I'm not sure how meaningful it was.

I might be prolific but influential I am not. I rarely ever am able to get my way on who is lynched because I am not a strong case maker or case reader. I read tells and meta and it rarely compels people.

I don't think you and Wilgy were low hanging fruit. You are either faking it or just feel that way as a victim. I chose the two players from group 3 who were the most capable of defending themselves and who I perceived as the most present. I felt you two were just joking around. You were only in group 3 because of that. The others were in group 3 because of low post counts. That is why you two were selected by me.

The thread was moving towards lynching you partially because I tossed you up for discussion but I had no case so if votes flew at you it wasn't because they read anything compelling I said or they were compelled too easily.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:20 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:04 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.

I don’t care.

Do you think nutella is mafia?

Light green skittle.

Why bark like that at someone you have a civ read on? You are a dominant voice and you could discourage her from continuing to analyse the game. If she is civ you should encourage her.

lmao oh yeah I'm so intimidated by the big scary boys, such a discouraging environment

Your gender had nothing to do with the comment. I just don't feel like his comment was helpful if he had a civ read on you. I would have said the same if he did that to most players.

I'm sorry if you felt like I was being sexist.

nah I understood what you meant I just thought it was funny from the wording

Who are your mafia reads?

anyway y'all have been talking too much and I'm not focusing very well atm so I'll come back in the morning. idk how I feel about LC's case on speed; I don't think I agree with most of it but I always have trouble reading speed, and I haven't sorted out whether I think making the case was a good look for LC. didn't really like jay jumping on it though. honestly part of me is becoming more confident that jay is bad than that sloonei is bad (I do think they could be teammates but I'm starting to feel like Jay could be bad without sloonei) and the more I think about it the more I believe I should follow my hunch because it's so rare for me to suspect Jay that if something feels wrong then something probably is wrong (which was the case in Mountains). sorry I'm just rambling a little incoherently I'm pretty sleepy

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:00 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:27 pm If i'm going to be blanketed with scum reads can you all at least do me the courtesy of including a reason? "Your tone is phony" and "you don't care about the roof" do not qualify as reasons.

It's your role that makes you scummy. Don't you understand?

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:12 amVoted Sloonei.

Read kyle's posts.

To answer Mac's question for me, Long Con's case looks sincere and I'm looking forward to speedchuck's response. Parts of it had me doubting my solid green chuck read.

Mac, if you were to base your suspects purely off of your interactive reads from last night, who would they be?

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:00 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:27 pm If i'm going to be blanketed with scum reads can you all at least do me the courtesy of including a reason? "Your tone is phony" and "you don't care about the roof" do not qualify as reasons.

It's your role that makes you scummy. Don't you understand?

What is your read on Epignosis?

See, this makes more sense. I felt like the game was buddying me before, but this... this seems more accurate to my play. I've been crap this game, and I don't blame LC for calling me out on that.

I am town though. I never get suspected earlier than D3 or D4 when I'm mafia, because I actually know what I'm doing. If there's a good case on me this early, I'm meta-town.

Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

Oh wow I missed an entire page in posting that.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

This speedchuck post is a page before my current catch-up level in Mortal Kombat mafia:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:10 amPlenty of observations, valuable ones, can be made without meta.
I remember when meta was just another avenue of analysis, rather than the only one.

I don't know if this is a Mafia faux pas, and I don't know if the dichotomy I'm seeing here is all that legit. But that speedchuck was downplaying the use of meta, shortly before our speedchuck pushes a 100% meta defense for himself.

And now I'm meta-ing across concurrent games. How meta IS this???

So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:30 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

This speedchuck post is a page before my current catch-up level in Mortal Kombat mafia:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:10 amPlenty of observations, valuable ones, can be made without meta.
I remember when meta was just another avenue of analysis, rather than the only one.

I don't know if this is a Mafia faux pas, and I don't know if the dichotomy I'm seeing here is all that legit. But that speedchuck was downplaying the use of meta, shortly before our speedchuck pushes a 100% meta defense for himself.

And now I'm meta-ing across concurrent games. How meta IS this???

To be fair, meta is super useful. It's just not all there is

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

When you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

When you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

It could be.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

I guess this makes you a scum read for me

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:56 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

I guess this makes you a scum read for me

Is that a compliment?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:57 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:56 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

I guess this makes you a scum read for me

Is that a compliment?

I've previously labeled you "the most stable (town) presence in the thread", so I guess.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:47 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pmWhen you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

It could be.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:02 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:57 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:56 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

I guess this makes you a scum read for me

Is that a compliment?

I've previously labeled you "the most stable (town) presence in the thread", so I guess.

I don't know what that label specifically means, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to me this game. Why? Why am I "the most stable?" Because I post a lot?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:02 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:57 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:56 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm Seriously, that is a consistent meta disclaimer. I play a good town game as 3P or Mafia. I am crap town, usually just skating by with power role usage.

I guess this makes you a scum read for me

Is that a compliment?

I've previously labeled you "the most stable (town) presence in the thread", so I guess.

I don't know what that label specifically means, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to me this game. Why? Why am I "the most stable?" Because I post a lot?

Because of posts like this. You've kept your head down and remained critical while everyone else seems to be playing the game of emotional tantrums.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi

I feel like this all could have been yellow, from the start. "Things can change" "At the moment"... are those not equally hedgey? FZ. certainly is laying down some tentative stuff here, it's important for her to make it clear she's not committing.

But you ask what she's agreeing with - I read it as she's agreeing with Jay that your posts aren't genuine. You criticize the way she doesn't go into specifics, which is reasonable... FZ., would you like to clarify?

The blue part is some classic Epi bizarro-logic to me. She said you are acting like you're going after what you believe. That doesn't imply that you genuinely believe... those beliefs. Just that you are bad and putting on an act as though you genuinely hold the beliefs. Contrasted to her projected Civ Epi, who is unlikely to commit strongly to those beliefs at all.

And the red part... a false dichotomy. "the product of me drawing a mafia role" and "a product of what I believed other people would say about me" are the same side of the same coin.

It is because you drew a mafia role that you chose to analyze what you believed other people would say about you.

Of course, the flip side to speedchuck's relative calmness is that he could be scum just coasting along and letting us all meltdown.

Does the post make you believe FZ. is a civilian?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:31 pm Does the post make you believe FZ. is a civilian?

No, it's not the kind of post that makes me say "THERE'S the reason I think she's Civ." The needle points more to baddie than Civ, for the earlier stuff about hedging and making damn sure we all knew her post was NOT set in stone by any means.

You're reaching way too hard with the red and blue stuff though. I'm not switching my vote from speedchuck to FZ. based on your case, no matter how colourful you made it.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:21 pmIt doesn't really feel bad to me. I rely more on tone, and her tone feels genuine.
Let me ask you or anyone familiar with baddie Nutella, is she the kind to follow others and bandwagon?

I for one really like, especially in the early stages, to bring my own suspects forward when I'm bad so people don't start accusing me of bandwagoning. I feel like when a person has no problem just stating they agree with someone, that it can easily be what they really think.

I went back to review FZ's posts because I remembered thinking that she seemed like she was jumping on the Kyle bandwagon with maybe a slightly contrived reason that was just different enough to be a unique take. This post seems a little ironic in retrospect...

In this game, bringing a new suspect forward during the really early part might have drawn more attention than it's worth. I was already being very loud and the only things that had happened yet were me being accused and me being loud and reactive, and people reacting to reactions.

If FZ's claim about her mafia meta is true then her actions on day 0 might make sense as a compromise between stating an agreement with someone, but also avoiding sticking out by becoming a solitary contrary voice.

[mention]FZ.[/mention], got any immediate reactions to the conversation about you?

We had no nightkill last night, but nobody is talking about things that might have caused that. I have trouble identifying a clear-cut consensus town read, so a doctor save on Night 1 would be incredible but not impossible. What other roles are there that could have stopped a kill from going through?

Damn, just wrote a post and it got deleted.
First, I find it almost impossible to catch up, so please bare with me. I'm really busy, and probably shouldn't have come back from the break, but that's what I did, and I'm trying to keep up.

I skimmed and read on and off, and I'm still a couple of pages behind, but here are a few of my impressions since I last left after my vote for Epi.

First, I really can't decide regarding Kyle. On the one hand, there's my first impression which made me seriously pinged. But there are posts where the tone feels very genuine to me, and he seems like he's upset from a civvie point of view. On the other hand, I value Sloonei's opinion, and although I've played only very few games with him, I think he's a very methodical player, and often gets the job done. He feels a little obsessed about Kyle, but it feels real to me. Not sure I agree, but it's something to think about.

I think I've changed my mind regarding Epi. I'm glad people didn't follow, and that he didn't end up getting lynched. His posts after I left felt much more like what I expect from civvie Epi.

Still feel very good about JJJ. I've seen nothing from him that makes me think he's bad.
Same goes for Sloonei. I actually like that he's asking people not to catch up. I do that sometimes as well, because the best way to catch a mafia is to interact with them live, so it makes me feel good about him.
Still, Sloonei, I have to say, that when I don't catch up I feel like I have no idea what's going on, so I guess it has to be a mixture.

Mac is a question mark. At some points he feels like the person I trust the most, but then I'm reminded a game I've played with him (can't remember
which), where he was bad and got everyone to trust him. So I'm keeping this at the back of my mind, just to remind me never to fully trust him. For now, he's high on my trusted list.

LC is one of my new top suspects. His game style feels like something I've seen lots of mafia do. He's asking clarification questions. It's something LC doesn't normally do. For example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pm
When you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

Here is another example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi

I feel like this all could have been yellow, from the start. "Things can change" "At the moment"... are those not equally hedgey? FZ. certainly is laying down some tentative stuff here, it's important for her to make it clear she's not committing.

But you ask what she's agreeing with - I read it as she's agreeing with Jay that your posts aren't genuine. You criticize the way she doesn't go into specifics, which is reasonable... FZ., would you like to clarify?

The blue part is some classic Epi bizarro-logic to me. She said you are acting like you're going after what you believe. That doesn't imply that you genuinely believe... those beliefs. Just that you are bad and putting on an act as though you genuinely hold the beliefs. Contrasted to her projected Civ Epi, who is unlikely to commit strongly to those beliefs at all.

And the red part... a false dichotomy. "the product of me drawing a mafia role" and "a product of what I believed other people would say about me" are the same side of the same coin.

It is because you drew a mafia role that you chose to analyze what you believed other people would say about you.

First of all, he's sort of defending/explaining me. Civvie LC doesn't do that. He let's people defend themselves or explain themselves. Again, he's asking for clarifications, which I don't remember him doing.
He's acting too nice, I can't explain it, but all his recent posts ping me like crazy.

I'll cut this post because it's way too long and continue in a following one

To answer your question Sloonei, Epi's wrong, but I think that's just what he is, not bad. LC on the other hand, is looking much worse to me, as explained in the previous post

I moved my vote to Dyslexicon.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:02 pm We had no nightkill last night, but nobody is talking about things that might have caused that. I have trouble identifying a clear-cut consensus town read, so a doctor save on Night 1 would be incredible but not impossible. What other roles are there that could have stopped a kill from going through?

I looked over the roles way back in signups, and I haven't really reread them yet.

Like I said, I rely greatly on tone. Sometimes, it works and sometimes it doesn't. The comment on Kyle was because I've seen many frustrated baddies let their frustration of what they viewed as an advantage for the civvies, slip out in a "sublimated" way.
My suspicion of Epi stemmed from his gung ho attitude straight from the get go, and a feeling that he could do that thinking people would say he wouldn't dare do that. My opinion has changed. I'm not saying he's a definite civvie, but his actions lately, even his suspicion of me makes me feel a lot better about him

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:24 pm Damn, just wrote a post and it got deleted.
First, I find it almost impossible to catch up, so please bare with me. I'm really busy, and probably shouldn't have come back from the break, but that's what I did, and I'm trying to keep up.

I skimmed and read on and off, and I'm still a couple of pages behind, but here are a few of my impressions since I last left after my vote for Epi.

First, I really can't decide regarding Kyle. On the one hand, there's my first impression which made me seriously pinged. But there are posts where the tone feels very genuine to me, and he seems like he's upset from a civvie point of view. On the other hand, I value Sloonei's opinion, and although I've played only very few games with him, I think he's a very methodical player, and often gets the job done. He feels a little obsessed about Kyle, but it feels real to me. Not sure I agree, but it's something to think about.

I think I've changed my mind regarding Epi. I'm glad people didn't follow, and that he didn't end up getting lynched. His posts after I left felt much more like what I expect from civvie Epi.

Still feel very good about JJJ. I've seen nothing from him that makes me think he's bad.
Same goes for Sloonei. I actually like that he's asking people not to catch up. I do that sometimes as well, because the best way to catch a mafia is to interact with them live, so it makes me feel good about him.
Still, Sloonei, I have to say, that when I don't catch up I feel like I have no idea what's going on, so I guess it has to be a mixture.

Mac is a question mark. At some points he feels like the person I trust the most, but then I'm reminded a game I've played with him (can't remember
which), where he was bad and got everyone to trust him. So I'm keeping this at the back of my mind, just to remind me never to fully trust him. For now, he's high on my trusted list.

LC is one of my new top suspects. His game style feels like something I've seen lots of mafia do. He's asking clarification questions. It's something LC doesn't normally do.

That is not a true statement. You are inventing that about me.

For example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pm
When you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

Here is another example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi

I feel like this all could have been yellow, from the start. "Things can change" "At the moment"... are those not equally hedgey? FZ. certainly is laying down some tentative stuff here, it's important for her to make it clear she's not committing.

But you ask what she's agreeing with - I read it as she's agreeing with Jay that your posts aren't genuine. You criticize the way she doesn't go into specifics, which is reasonable... FZ., would you like to clarify?

The blue part is some classic Epi bizarro-logic to me. She said you are acting like you're going after what you believe. That doesn't imply that you genuinely believe... those beliefs. Just that you are bad and putting on an act as though you genuinely hold the beliefs. Contrasted to her projected Civ Epi, who is unlikely to commit strongly to those beliefs at all.

And the red part... a false dichotomy. "the product of me drawing a mafia role" and "a product of what I believed other people would say about me" are the same side of the same coin.

It is because you drew a mafia role that you chose to analyze what you believed other people would say about you.

First of all, he's sort of defending/explaining me. Civvie LC doesn't do that.

How is this "first of all" when it follows your previous points? Never mind.

"Civvie LC doesn't do that" is the second time this post that you are making something up about me.

He let's people defend themselves or explain themselves. Again, he's asking for clarifications, which I don't remember him doing.
He's acting too nice, I can't explain it, but all his recent posts ping me like crazy.

Instead of criticizing that I agree with Epi that your comments about him and JJJ need clarifying, why don't you just clarify them?

hmmmmmmmmmm

this game is fucking hard

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:24 pm
LC is one of my new top suspects. His game style feels like something I've seen lots of mafia do. He's asking clarification questions. It's something LC doesn't normally do. For example:

hey [mention]Long Con[/mention] this game is LMS right?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:02 pm We had no nightkill last night, but nobody is talking about things that might have caused that. I have trouble identifying a clear-cut consensus town read, so a doctor save on Night 1 would be incredible but not impossible. What other roles are there that could have stopped a kill from going through?

How about :
Perchik is a revolutionary, wanting to usher in a new era to Russia. It didn't pan out so well. To shake things up, he will redirect a player every night.

If that's the case, it means Perchik got the Constable, no?

@linki: What's LMS?