The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:54 pm Interactions of Invictus and Long Con

From Invictus

Spoiler: show

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:44 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:01 amNo he’s Lock Town.
Get off them!

Nah I do what I want.

But to be real, Hollow hasn't said or done anything that makes me think they are any particular alignment. It's a shrug from me. Your read on Hollow is not mine, and I'm not convinced by the reasoning of it, which is also a subjective thing. But if Hollow is town (or not), I think I should be able to figure it out.

i dont like giving this away before it gets anywhere tho. why not wait and see?

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:38 am Nanook, still posting about shows and not players?

what is our experience with them because based on my limited experience i dont think that would indicate much of anything.

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:58 pm

DkKoba wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:25 am where is the activity overview on this site so i can find whos talked yet

DkKoba wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:26 am [VOTE: long con] aubergine

Just gonna assume person who hasn't voted yet is one of them

DkKoba wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:26 am lets do itttt wagon up

not really sure i like this string of posts too as it was no longer RVS and there was clearly content to make reads from and go after.

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:22 pm Alison
DkKoba
Dyslexicon
falcon45ca
Fingersplints
Gavial
Hollowkatt
Long Con
Marmot
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Staypositivefriend
tonystarkprime


this is disappointingly less than i thought.

still a good start!

i dont include scum reads on my lists, but im more than happy to clarify who those are if anyone asks. particularly i dont like gavial, hollow, or koba right now and will vote among those 3.

if anyone thinks this is too many town reads, there's also a lot of town compared to scum! i like to solve via town reads and creating a poe to find scum. for the most part my town reads are pretty consistently good so it works well for me.

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 8:49 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:23 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:22 pm [VOTE: dkkoba] aubergine

Town

Why

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 8:53 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 8:50 pm

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 8:49 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:23 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:22 pm [VOTE: dkkoba] aubergine

Town

Why

If you read first and ask questions later.
You wouldn’t have even needed to ask “why”.

True


But I still don't get your explanation as to why that never comes from wolf

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:32 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:21 pm

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:01 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 7:01 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:10 pm Current quick takes.

Alison is town for pushing for activity.
Dizzy is town for reasonable reads and OMGUSing. Good luck surviving til Day 2 Dizzy.
I am town because my rolecard says so.

oof, i don't like this post. do you think that alison would not push to make the game more active as a wolf? would dizzy not have "reasonable reads" as a wolf? this feels like a fairly surface level analysis

I disliked the post for other, maybe self centered reasons. Those being I was more active than Alison and had overlapping thoughts as dizzy yet Marmot didn't mention me at all

does that mean you wolfread marmot?

Leaning that way yes.

Ddk's frustration with nook reads Towny with me because the game I just played with nook had 3 separate townies all get frustrated in a similar fashion to nook(including me), altho that's not enough to really change my read on him. I'd still like to see one of their scum games for cross comparison.

I don't really understand hollow's play at all and I think his accusations against me are kinda bad, but the sheer tunneling gives me town vibes. Not sure why they're so persistent on scum reading and voting me while being tied as the leading wagon, but not shifting their attention over to ddk or even really going at them reads well because they're not overly concerned, at least not yet, with self pres. Unless I guess they could both be scum, but I'd assume they'd at least distance in that case.

I continued to like SPF's posting, seem rather carefree and town to me.

Flint kinda vibed town in my read back too but nothing concrete there.

Not really sure I like long con thus far as it feels like they're just coasting by letting day play out. If both wagons are town it would be good to look back on as it would make sense for scum to just sit back and wait in that case.

Invictius wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:07 am [VOTE: vote long con] aubergine

Let's see what happens with this, if anything at all!


I don't have a huge case or anything, everything just feels stagnant and I hate when things are stagnant

Invictius wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:02 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:00 am my vote is still up in the air, gavial. if you feel strongly about the current wagons being town and you have a good alternative, i will earnestly consider it

but you dont seem to be suggesting alternatives

Thoughts on long con?

Invictius wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:39 am

DkKoba wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:11 am

Invictius wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:02 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:00 am my vote is still up in the air, gavial. if you feel strongly about the current wagons being town and you have a good alternative, i will earnestly consider it

but you dont seem to be suggesting alternatives

Thoughts on long con?

i said they were town - why would they be scum here?

for the exact reasons i said. in a scenario where both you and hk are town, scum have to do very little outside of letting the wagons play out and they're guaranteed a scum flip.

outside of that, there's no reason to hard lock town reads halfway through day 1(well 60% through day 1) and discussion doesn't hurt. i just generally feel like their impact is low.

alison is another person that has gone mia since the start of the phase as well.

Invictius wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:37 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:04 am I want to leave my vote on dk cause it's clearly annoying him and his whole thing is mildly annoying to me

But he's probably town so

I'll move it eventually

why eventually. if you got nowhere else to be, LONG CON IS THE VOTE TO BE

Invictius wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:33 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:27 pm Yes. I’m just forgetful of what/who/why in regards to the hollowkatt suspicion. I think I was focused on the DkK thing when it was going on.

fair enough.

i was also on the dizzy wagon and i unvoted mostly due to their persistent tunneling of me even while facing a heavy wagon. going against the grain and sticking to it even while tied with another poster(at the time dkk, they both had 4) is usually a town look as id expect scum to go more in a self-pres mentality. they didn't even bring up dkk when they could have.

i did mention that it could be due to them being teammates and not wanting to sink one another so early on, but for now i doubt that as i think distancing would be the optimal play in that scenario but it's possible.

i think dizzy is still kinda somewhat suspect of them, but just thought long con is more in his poe? i could be wrong there.

Invictius wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 6:48 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:24 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:22 pm

DkKoba wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:21 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:19 pm

DkKoba wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:18 pm LC imma be honest i dont think ur reads are like well founded in good faith - like why is Gavial scum here?

like i say this as I dont want to have to defend you from people eager to lim a slot that is playing poorly and want to in fact help you not play poorly here and cooperate with town and good faith hunt rather than push people who are >rand town lol

What do you mean by "good faith"? I think he could be scum. I thought so earlier, and his zaniness seems too forced.

or that could just be their personality...

Yeah, that could be. You seem to know. Do you know too much? You seem to know I'm town and that gavial's town. [VOTE: dkkoba] aubergine

Chill buddy even I know that much and I’ve read 70 percent of the thread

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:24 pm Ok, cool. [VOTE: unvote] aubergine

why did you back off so easily here LC?

Orange: Bookmarking this as the start of Invictus giving LC crap. Prior to this the material had been non-descript nothingness. So I'll just follow the progression.

Generally, I think Long Con, when civilian, is one of the more token "easy targets" especially for people who don't know him already -- he plays with individualism, an obstinate tone, and doesn't concern himself much with prevailing anything. In that light, there's a decent chance Invictus pulled LC out of a hat as the most obvious "guy I can shade" available (as the off-wagon voting semi-low poster) -- that would be to LC's credit. It's a presumptuous notion I grant.

That kind of easy smear vibe persists to the yellow thing. Given that LC wasn't an odds-on chop himself I can't say this is clear-cut opportunism, but gun to my head that's my impression. Invictus needed someone to poop on, and LC seemed like the right name.

~~~

From Long Con

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 2:10 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:57 pm

Invictius wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:52 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:47 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:38 am Nanook, still posting about shows and not players?

What do you think this means?

hi

i shouldn't answer for them but i havent interacted with you yet so i will!


if someone chooses to continue fluffing instead of getting involved people find it suspicious as fluff is something scum can hide behind instead of having to engage in the actual content of the game

that said my understanding is nook is pretty experienced and most wolves are self-aware enough to know to get somewhat involved so they don't look bad whereas town are more apathetic to it. it looks similar to my experience with nook so i think it's kinda towny, but i have no idea what his scum game is like.

I do understand that, but LC put that comment out there without giving any real stance on it. For town, could be a genuine thought to explorers. For mafia could be a way to casually start up suspicion on someone who could be an easy lynch. So I was hoping to hear him clarify his thoughts more to see which I believed him to be.

I just felt it was, like, a genuine thought to explore - if someone chooses to continue fluffing instead of getting involved people find it suspicious as fluff is something scum can hide behind instead of having to engage in the actual content of the game, you know? However, Invictus could be right, nook is pretty experienced, and most wolves are self-aware enough to know to get somewhat involved. I'm not that great at reading Nanook anyway.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:42 am I'm not sure what it means that neither Invictus nor fingersplints had anything to say about me copy-pasting a response to their suspicions.

This adds nothing to the interaction of note.

~~~

Conclusion

There's a relative dearth of things to talk about, even if from the Invictus side those things are of significance. I'd be more comfortable if I had more content to develop my perspectives. Gun to my head Long Con is not Invictus's teammate.

TF is this? L after N and M?
LC your buddy?

Maybe I’ll track LC tonight.

I said I was going backwards.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:53 pm Also, the reason I claimed today is a couple reasons

1) I'm POE'd so I'm just going to get that out of the way.
2) Gavial is already an outed tracker, so the mafia has to either kill him tonight, giving me two shots, or kill me tonight, giving him another track, but giving me 1 shot at least.

Well this is pretty fantastic then. I think Alison/JJJ is scum. I guess spf/Tony for the last one?

Look, be honest with me JJJ.
Why LC now and not before Nanook and Marmot?

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:00 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 11:09 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:09 pm

Invictius wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:59 pm [VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine


Let's go with this. It feels right in the bones

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Agree 100%

probs one wolf in here

Careful or I might vig you Day 1 again.

Not that I need to convince anyone today, but I made this post Day 1. If hollowkat was scum, he'd probably have been able to tell I was hinting at being the vig because he'd have known the role was in the game. But I'm still alive, which tells me that he is therefore town and didn't notice it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 pm I said I was going backwards.

Oh I’m dumb.
Don’t mind me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:57 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:54 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:21 pm Can anyone tell me whether Long Con was ever a viable wagon on Day 1 or the start of Day 2?

He was D1. Game state felt like either him or Falcon to be yeeted from my point of view.

Marmot claimed vig now, so hey. But maybe stupid reason to clear him: He immediately followed Invictius on his RVS vote on me. Yeah, Marmot is maybe a player who would do that, most teammates would probably spread votes. But if Marmot is actually vig, then we're golden anyway.

Okay. That runs counter to what LC suggested, so I'd appreciate anyone else giving me a perspective here. It might be an eye-of-the-beholder thing.

I could be misremembering, I guess.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:00 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 11:09 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:09 pm

Invictius wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:59 pm [VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine


Let's go with this. It feels right in the bones

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Agree 100%

probs one wolf in here

Careful or I might vig you Day 1 again.

Not that I need to convince anyone today, but I made this post Day 1. If hollowkat was scum, he'd probably have been able to tell I was hinting at being the vig because he'd have known the role was in the game. But I'm still alive, which tells me that he is therefore town and didn't notice it.

HW is town just from the INVIC push alone that happened day 1.
It was pure AF.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:53 pm Also, the reason I claimed today is a couple reasons

1) I'm POE'd so I'm just going to get that out of the way.
2) Gavial is already an outed tracker, so the mafia has to either kill him tonight, giving me two shots, or kill me tonight, giving him another track, but giving me 1 shot at least.

Well this is pretty fantastic then. I think Alison/JJJ is scum. I guess spf/Tony for the last one?

What do you make of my point that SPF was trying to keep Alison/JJJ from being vigged?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:21 pm Can anyone tell me whether Long Con was ever a viable wagon on Day 1 or the start of Day 2?

I think it was only Invictus that scum read me, I think I had mostly Town reads going on.

I voted you and did not town read you. In my mind, you were a possible yeet until the very EoD when Alison and probably some others said you were town. Maybe I'm misremembering though.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:00 pmWhat do you make of my point that SPF was trying to keep Alison/JJJ from being vigged?

I have not read this. But yes. I was wondering why spf did not engage with me Alison suspicion at all actually. And I was like, why does she not also consider that as a vig option? Cause that is where I would vig if I had a shot.

Based on interactions with Invictus, in light of Marmot's claim:

Dyslexicon
hollowkatt

staypositivefriend
DkKoba/Syn
Long Con

TonyStarkPrime
Nanook

Names within tiers are not ordered.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:56 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:53 pm Also, the reason I claimed today is a couple reasons

1) I'm POE'd so I'm just going to get that out of the way.
2) Gavial is already an outed tracker, so the mafia has to either kill him tonight, giving me two shots, or kill me tonight, giving him another track, but giving me 1 shot at least.

Good Job Marmot!
Thank you bro!
Glad you were PoE as PR it helps a FUCK TON!


Now the question remains is if Long Con/JJJ kills me or you tonight.

I thought I was the next target after Marmot and JJJ resolve? Why LC instead?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:01 pm Based on interactions with Invictus, in light of Marmot's claim:

Dyslexicon
hollowkatt

staypositivefriend
DkKoba/Syn
Long Con

TonyStarkPrime
Nanook

Names within tiers are not ordered.

Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm I thought I was the next target after Marmot and JJJ resolve? Why LC instead?

What's your read on Gavial?

Look at us, dizzy, just two good old misrememberers.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:00 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:00 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 11:09 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:09 pm

Invictius wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:59 pm [VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine


Let's go with this. It feels right in the bones

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Agree 100%

probs one wolf in here

Careful or I might vig you Day 1 again.

Not that I need to convince anyone today, but I made this post Day 1. If hollowkat was scum, he'd probably have been able to tell I was hinting at being the vig because he'd have known the role was in the game. But I'm still alive, which tells me that he is therefore town and didn't notice it.

HW is town just from the INVIC push alone that happened day 1.
It was pure AF.

I didn't go back and read it the HK pursuit of Invictus, but thanks for sharing that. I was mainly pointing this out because I'd hinted at my role this day.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.

That's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:01 pm Based on interactions with Invictus, in light of Marmot's claim:

Dyslexicon
hollowkatt

staypositivefriend
DkKoba/Syn
Long Con

TonyStarkPrime
Nanook

Names within tiers are not ordered.

Ima tell you right now TSP should be higher but Dizzy and HW are my top town too.
Also throw me and Marmot in lock town spot!!!

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:56 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:53 pm Also, the reason I claimed today is a couple reasons

1) I'm POE'd so I'm just going to get that out of the way.
2) Gavial is already an outed tracker, so the mafia has to either kill him tonight, giving me two shots, or kill me tonight, giving him another track, but giving me 1 shot at least.

Good Job Marmot!
Thank you bro!
Glad you were PoE as PR it helps a FUCK TON!


Now the question remains is if Long Con/JJJ kills me or you tonight.

Me?

Oh, I also claimed because I wanted to be sure about SPF and talk about that slot. I see there's also good reason to target JJJ.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm I thought I was the next target after Marmot and JJJ resolve? Why LC instead?

What's your read on Gavial?

he's a tracker

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.

That's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.

Can you explain a trustfall again? I've seen them done before, but never done one myself.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm I thought I was the next target after Marmot and JJJ resolve? Why LC instead?

What's your read on Gavial?

he's a tracker

Agreed. I'm wondering what inspired you to ask Gavial that question

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:57 pmOkay. That runs counter to what LC suggested, so I'd appreciate anyone else giving me a perspective here. It might be an eye-of-the-beholder thing.

Let me put it this way: The chances of LC being a yeet was far from zero. There was a day that could've suddenly taken a turn. I don't at all think Invictius encourages my suspicion on LC and also votes LC himself if they are teammates, when he has enough town cred and enough game in him to just not. Again, he doesn't bus for the fun of it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.

That's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.

Can you explain a trustfall again? I've seen them done before, but never done one myself.

Just list every living player in the game and indicate the strongest reasons you can think of to call them civilians.

Sloonei popularized the thing long ago. I find it's a very good way to dig into our own world views and tease apart well-founded reads from overcooked vibes reads.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:57 pmOkay. That runs counter to what LC suggested, so I'd appreciate anyone else giving me a perspective here. It might be an eye-of-the-beholder thing.

Let me put it this way: The chances of LC being a yeet was far from zero. There was a day that could've suddenly taken a turn. I don't at all think Invictius encourages my suspicion on LC and also votes LC himself if they are teammates, when he has enough town cred and enough game in him to just not. Again, he doesn't bus for the fun of it.

Okay. I'll also note that given my review of the scenario it would technically be to LC's detriment to indicate he was not under threat of being chopped, so perhaps that's a nice wifom nugget for him here.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm @Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?

Yes

I'm also the real vig and plan on shooting her tonight.

if your reaction to me claiming vigilante and successfully forcing the mafia to hardclaim and out themselves while also providing you ample cover to hide and take shots without the mafia knowing who you are is to turn around and shoot the same person who provided you with that cover, then uh....i don't know what to say

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.

That's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.

No, I won't do that. I hate trustfalls. It doesn't help me at all. It brings wifom upon me and gives scum wiggle room. Especially if the scum is good at talking themselves out of tight spots. I've won scum games myself by just posting, analysing and contenting-ing the fuck out of town. I'm pretty sure Nanook is town here. I've never been wrong in reading him so far.

Gavial honored my request to interact with my assessments, so I will honor his request to look at Alison. I won't "analyze" my own slot, but I will at least briefly see what's up and if there's anything I have to say about it -- including Dizzy's gripes.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Look at us, dizzy, just two good old misrememberers.

Lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.

That's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.

No, I won't do that. I hate trustfalls. It doesn't help me at all. It brings wifom upon me and gives scum wiggle room. Especially if the scum is good at talking themselves out of tight spots. I've won scum games myself by just posting, analysing and contenting-ing the fuck out of town. I'm pretty sure Nanook is town here. I've never been wrong in reading him so far.

You're certainly not required to do it if you don't want to.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm @Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?

Yes

I'm also the real vig and plan on shooting her tonight.

if your reaction to me claiming vigilante and successfully forcing the mafia to hardclaim and out themselves while also providing you ample cover to hide and take shots without the mafia knowing who you are is to turn around and shoot the same person who provided you with that cover, then uh....i don't know what to say

like no offense marmot, but i genuinely am having a hard time wrapping my head around that being the play that you want to make. that is absolutely absurd and you'll have to excuse me for being a bit frustrated that you claimed at all, let alone claimed with the intention to shoot the person who literally gave you the cover to hide, lmfao

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:12 pmYou're certainly not required to do it if you don't want to.

No, I don't want to.

I do that shit in my head. If I air every doubt I have in the thread, it's very easy to muddy the waters and for strong scum to argue their way through the cracks. And that is exactly what I'm nervous about right now, and why I would shoot your slot if I had a vig shot.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm @Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?

Yes

I'm also the real vig and plan on shooting her tonight.

if your reaction to me claiming vigilante and successfully forcing the mafia to hardclaim and out themselves while also providing you ample cover to hide and take shots without the mafia knowing who you are is to turn around and shoot the same person who provided you with that cover, then uh....i don't know what to say

I believe Invictus claimed vig first and you CC'd him no?

Maybe try a different tactic like telling me who to shoot insteead of calling it absurd spf.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:13 pmlike no offense marmot, but i genuinely am having a hard time wrapping my head around that being the play that you want to make. that is absolutely absurd and you'll have to excuse me for being a bit frustrated that you claimed at all, let alone claimed with the intention to shoot the person who literally gave you the cover to hide, lmfao

Invictius was already 100 % outed.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:15 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm @Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?

Yes

I'm also the real vig and plan on shooting her tonight.

if your reaction to me claiming vigilante and successfully forcing the mafia to hardclaim and out themselves while also providing you ample cover to hide and take shots without the mafia knowing who you are is to turn around and shoot the same person who provided you with that cover, then uh....i don't know what to say

I believe Invictus claimed vig first and you CC'd him no?

that is correct. he wanted to force the vigilante to out themselves

"No, but actually I am the vig who shot my own and everyone's top town read!" is as good as outed. I can't even tell if he tried to make it believable or not, cause it just never could be.

But he didn't stick with it and try to get you yeeted, he just gave up. That's why I think it's wolf theater.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:16 pm Maybe try a different tactic like telling me who to shoot insteead of calling it absurd spf.

well, i do find it absurd that i gave you the cover to hide as the real vigilante, and you responded to that by outing yourself anyway and then threatening to shoot the person that prevented you from having to out

unfortunately, there might not be enough time for me to form a fully developed worldview of this game within the next hour and a half to convince you not to shoot me, since i was under the impression that i would have another 48 hours to scumhunt tomorrow and that i would not be in any real danger of dying

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:17 pmthat is correct. he wanted to force the vigilante to out themselves

The vig would never actually have to out there though, be real. His claim was never going to fly.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:18 pm But he didn't stick with it and try to get you yeeted, he just gave up. That's why I think it's wolf theater.

invicitus knew he was outed - his intention with claiming the vigilante was to get the real vigilante to claim. when i claimed, he thought that he had accomplished his goal and then peacefully popped out of the thread

why is it not more simple to believe that invict simply wanted the vig to out, believed that my claim was real, and then gave up, then to believe that the dynamic between us was elaborate wolf theater?

Regarding Alison:

One gripe is that she gave Invictus a frivolous town read on the basis of overblown chatter about his initial RVS vote on Dizzy. I can't read Alison's mind. I do suspect what happened here though was enthusiasm about generating early town reads. She has taken more to the raw POE approach, quite like the one I often favor, in recent memory and that has been reflected in her recent town play. This was probably an example of the same. By whatever process, she felt like she could town read Invictus and moved from there. Had she played longer I have no idea what she'd have done with that -- if she's like me though, being wrong about an early Day 1 read is not a big deal -- making the read is still valuable for thread development. She was wrong, oh well.

Otherwise her commentary about Invictus is essentially nothing. She didn't dwell on the read and just played the game to the extent that she could. I can understand folks having doubts about the interaction, but that it's being treated as a slam dunk by so many folks is good evidence of confirmation bias clouding the game. That's on everyone else to sort out; I am not going to spend more of my limited time concerned with that. She's town. I'm town. You'll find it if you let yourself find it (the general "you").

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:18 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:16 pm Maybe try a different tactic like telling me who to shoot insteead of calling it absurd spf.

well, i do find it absurd that i gave you the cover to hide as the real vigilante, and you responded to that by outing yourself anyway and then threatening to shoot the person that prevented you from having to out

unfortunately, there might not be enough time for me to form a fully developed worldview of this game within the next hour and a half to convince you not to shoot me, since i was under the impression that i would have another 48 hours to scumhunt tomorrow and that i would not be in any real danger of dying

I'm a town vig. If you're town, just tell me who to shoot, not try to tell me my play is horrendous.

Also, I don't really need any cover at this point, there's another outed PR.

I find myself wondering, Marmot, if you're influenced by the old-timey Syndicate no-claims lore where things like "cover" didn't exist. Do you think that's plausible?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:21 pm I find myself wondering, Marmot, if you're influenced by the old-timey Syndicate no-claims lore where things like "cover" didn't exist. Do you think that's plausible?

I don't know what you're asking me here.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:19 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:17 pmthat is correct. he wanted to force the vigilante to out themselves

The vig would never actually have to out there though, be real. His claim was never going to fly.

i have no doubt that invicitus would have been chopped regardless of whether or not i made my fakeclaim, but there absolutely would have continued to be a lingering: "what if.....?" tinfoil about gavial's report being fake if invictus did not promptly out himself upon seeing my claim, and i could see further concern about whether or not the claims should be resolved by night actions. there was enough concern about the legitimacy of gavial's report, and i effectively prevented a situation where marmot would need claim just to definitively shut down the idea that gavial could be fake

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:18 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:16 pm Maybe try a different tactic like telling me who to shoot insteead of calling it absurd spf.

well, i do find it absurd that i gave you the cover to hide as the real vigilante, and you responded to that by outing yourself anyway and then threatening to shoot the person that prevented you from having to out

unfortunately, there might not be enough time for me to form a fully developed worldview of this game within the next hour and a half to convince you not to shoot me, since i was under the impression that i would have another 48 hours to scumhunt tomorrow and that i would not be in any real danger of dying

I'm a town vig. If you're town, just tell me who to shoot, not try to tell me my play is horrendous.

Also, I don't really need any cover at this point, there's another outed PR.

my approach to solving this game has been predicated on the idea that i will have another 48 hours to scumhunt tomorrow. if i do not have those 48 hours, then i do not anticipate that my suggestions for the shot will have a high level of accuracy. there's only a little bit of time left in the day. we will see