The Syndicate

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 pm I looked back, and G-Man's comments are through page 10, and Dolby's first post didn't come until page 13.

valid

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:22 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:15 pm

Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:14 am JK

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I'll be back tomorrow hopefully with better focus.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:14 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:14 am JK

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I'll be back tomorrow hopefully with better focus.

Are you cc-ing?

Wait did he claim?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:24 am [VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

I don't get what the CC would be for?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:53 am My bad then. Tells you how well I'm looking at this shit.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:02 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:55 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:53 am My bad then. Tells you how well I'm looking at this shit.

Do you have any more thoughts? On this claim or anything else?

It is a PR claim that's pretty powerful.

It'll self resolve.

@Marmot, I don't really interpret this stuff as "giving up". That would tend to depend upon what he does from here though. At the least it's a pretty empty Day 2 so far.

Sure. I find the emptiness more suspicious, since it's really hard to tell if he's "given up". We'll see.

If we were organizing players in order of what they've done/contributed today, I'd put Lime Coke would be at the very bottom.

As we wait for Lime Coke to return, I could interpret his reaction as more damning than yours. You just talked to me longer, so your response resonated more with me.

I've not given up yet.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:22 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:15 pm

Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:14 am JK

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I'll be back tomorrow hopefully with better focus.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:23 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:14 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:14 am JK

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I'll be back tomorrow hopefully with better focus.

Are you cc-ing?

Wait did he claim?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:24 am [VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

I don't get what the CC would be for?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:53 am My bad then. Tells you how well I'm looking at this shit.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:02 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:55 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:53 am My bad then. Tells you how well I'm looking at this shit.

Do you have any more thoughts? On this claim or anything else?

It is a PR claim that's pretty powerful.

It'll self resolve.

@Marmot, I don't really interpret this stuff as "giving up". That would tend to depend upon what he does from here though. At the least it's a pretty empty Day 2 so far.

Sure. I find the emptiness more suspicious, since it's really hard to tell if he's "given up". We'll see.

If we were organizing players in order of what they've done/contributed today, I'd put Lime Coke would be at the very bottom.

As we wait for Lime Coke to return, I could interpret his reaction as more damning than yours. You just talked to me longer, so your response resonated more with me.

To clarify: neither Lime Coke nor Marmot's reactions to TSP's claim/my pestering need to be bad. But both of them checked some of the boxes for what I was anticipating from potential mafia members. Lime Coke's more muted response could be interpreted less favorably than Marmot's more spirited resistance.

Thoughts through page 15. Why didn’t I sign up for the post-count-limited Racket instead? Oh, right, because I’m hosting it. Lunch break is over. If you all slow down, I might be able to catch all the way up tonight before bed.


DOLBY
-647: wisdom

DYSLEXICON
-whole entry to the game was just weird. Don’t recall if this is typical but it feels a little too much. Do not agree with assessment of SPF
-So. Much. Thread-spew! Not enough foundation behind all that glitter.
-254&255: now it simmers down
-275: Waffle House reads
-280: Why play with forced restraint?
-286: Fair criticism, but also sets up a huge bias
-351: “I am intentionally not going to play the way I tend to play”
-373: something concrete is something
-401: hedgy

FALCON
-323: I concur about pingy
-354: scum reads with no meat
-363: agreed
-590: disagree- they gotta try to talk the talk and walk the walk or they stand out

ILARIO
-77: post count padding? Quite agreeable
-113: too much emphasis on entrance (not limited to just ilario)
-192: a little too forward-thinking and helpful without focusing on the here and now
-304: way too soft an acceptance of Dys
-337: rather over-explainy
-587- spot on
-702: hmm
-750: an awful lot to explain a tr on Jay because he tr’s you

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
-56: could be supa-jay but feels too jabbery
-93: more like real Jay
-101: less twang and more neil hartley please
-152: good points but not nai
-158: i thought the same; unclear how this makes me feel
-277: this feels slimy
-390: soft pass for NAA
-443: so why bother writing it?
-555: quite
-563: reply hazy; try again later

JOHANNA

LIME COKE
-68: a lot to glean from so little
-434: a bit brash and over the top
-440: drifting into ATE?
-610: I think several people have been too quick to assume chummy early-towncore constructions

MARMOT
-184: sassy burn?
-678: true, but does SPF realize that?
-682: volume clearing is meh
-overall I appreciate marmot’s poking and picking at consensus and other assertions
-744: good question

NAA
-312: derp?
-437: yes and no
-743: still feel they’re opposite alignments after the flip?

SIG
-291: lol sig
-518: yeah, that was a little too harsh

SLOONEI
-72: sassy interesting. Disingenuous?
-125: true
-419: bingo
-565: don’t worry, you have a real game
-669: that’s what happens when you spend too much time looking for people to townread

SOA
-39: experienced player- no passes needed (come at me?)
-41: can’t describe own play style? Odd.
-61: seeking pat on the head or open fishing- don’t force the lure
-63: “interesting” and agreeable
-88: over-equipped try-hard
-148: a bit Mac-like? Hard to pin this personality down
-355: speaking of magnifying things…
-453: feels like too much to explain what it does
-511: lol, come at me bro
-529: difference of cultures i hope
-542: a bit know-it-allish but also a lot of work if a baddie

SPF
-64: good questions
-69: also good
-111: color me intrigued
-164: ew adverbs; meh
-604: splitting hairs; speed-reading and skimming are real things

TSP
-317: TR’s sig
-463: lol Tony

One thing I take issue with regarding Dolby is this series of posts where we interacted on Day 1. I jokingly stated a scumread of Sloonei, and Dolby established a TR of me for it, but maintained that I was serious even though I explained it was a joke. I still don't really get why he couldn't accept that I was joking.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 am I do not like the tendency among the consensus town/highposters that we just yeet the low-posters. I'm struggling to find any reads rn that aren't close to having the same effect as sort by postcount.

This has present from as early as the 200s, from Dizzy

Haven't even read fully yet, just feel the need to say this.

Also, Jo's D2 entrance isn't bad for them. No I will not elaborate

I don't hate this post, it's a valid concern that I often have, and was part of the reason I wasn't pleased with sig being yeeted Day 1 (though I didn't really state it explicitly). But I would like more engagement on who among the high-posters warrant more inspection.

Dolby does follow it up with a new triad and readlist.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:29 am I might call Dizzy/Sloonei/JJJ the new triad.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:49 am Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

JJJ and Dizzy both fall into the paranoia category whereas Sloonei remains a townread after the three of them were grouped into Dolby's triad. There were 3 posts and 20 minutes that separated these two posts from Dolby, @Dolby do you recall why JJJ and Dizzy slipped in your mind, but Sloonei did not?

It is slightly notable that according to this readlist, Dolby did write his read of JJJ before Dizzy, despite Dizzy coming first in the list. Probably negligible.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:19 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:49 am Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:30 am Thoughts through page 10:

DOLBY

DYSLEXICON
-whole entry to the game was just weird. Don’t recall if this is typical but it feels a little too much. Do not agree with assessment of SPF
-So. Much. Thread-spew! Not enough foundation behind all that glitter.
-254&255: now it simmers down
-275: Waffle House reads

[redacted for length]

This is one of those 100% blank interactions that I could never dissociate, but it's also not how teammates usually behave. I'll say they're compatible and just shrug.

The lack of my thoughts on Dolby through page 10 is because Dolby didn’t show up until page 13.

Should we call you T-Man this game?

I'm not reading PBPA

Mainly bc early game I felt that JJJ and Dizzy were visibly moving towards a "yeet the lowposters, present and future" mindset and Sloonei was not

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:51 pm I'm not reading PBPA

Tell me what PBPA means, please. I’m old and not hip to the new-fangled leetspeak.

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:53 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:51 pm I'm not reading PBPA

Tell me what PBPA means, please. I’m old and not hip to the new-fangled leetspeak.

Professional Bowling People Association

and also post-by-post analysis.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:20 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:18 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:02 pm Because I suspect you, and talking to her about a player I suspect can potentially give me quality about each of you.

Could you expound on your suspicion of me just so everyone's on the same page?

Looking through your ISO, I've seen you ask me a number of questions about things that I have said, but your reasons for voting me are often the same:

No good reason, I just don't like all the votes on sig and feel like Marmot can get some attention too.
Poll diversity. You have not earned a town read yet, but you have not been a big topic of discussion either.
At present I am not uncomfortable voting for either marmot or sig. it is slightly worrying that I don’t have any names beyond those two.
We seem to be circling around Marmot and sig as our primary options for today, but neither has an overwhelming case against them.
I put my vote on Marmot a while ago because sig had all the votes and there was no productive reason for me to leave mine there. Marmot was next in line for some scrutiny.


There is a common theme here that I have perceived, that you want to push my name for discussion but have not voiced a suspicion about anything that I've done. Is this intentional? Or am I missing something?

Marmot not with Sloonei.

I'm not with Sloonei

Went down the list and realized Sloonei is not mafia, to no credit of his own play.

This is hands-down your best post of the game thus far. Keep it up!

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:38 pm I do like Johanna a lot, and there’s some derp territory there as well. Wish I had played with her before

Aww. Someone told me I'd enjoy playing with you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:03 pm I think there is at least one reason I could identify to call every single player in this game town-aligned except for G-Man.

If I ask myself which of those would have the fewest or the thinnest reasons, I think I end up with 3 of Dizzy's 4. Add falcon and Dolby.

Yeah, well, and that's for lack of posts...

I might show up now and again for the next few hours but just catching up a couple pages has been a drain, so don't expect me to be back in force until the morning (~12 hours from now). Thanks.

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:53 pm Mainly bc early game I felt that JJJ and Dizzy were visibly moving towards a "yeet the lowposters, present and future" mindset and Sloonei was not

Dumb as it may seem, trends do favor this philosophy to remove lower-content players. So sure.

G-man's catch-up posts are not designed to be read and digested by us, I believe. They exist for his own sake. That is fine and groovy and I do not disapprove of him doing that if it is the method he feels is best to help him get involved.

But when he is comfortable and involved, we are all going to need him to give us posts that are more open to interpretation and discussion.

@Son of Anarch what is your present view of ilario?

Undeveloped concern:

If I am mafia in a game like this with a pre-provided numbers advantage, I might just town read my whole team and “power” through the reduced number of misses I need.

Town reads in this game need to be critically assessed. On a personal level we can start with trustfalls.

Sloonei can explain.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:18 pm Undeveloped concern:

If I am mafia in a game like this with a pre-provided numbers advantage, I might just town read my whole team and “power” through the reduced number of misses I need.

Town reads in this game need to be critically assessed. On a personal level we can start with trustfalls.

Sloonei can explain.

everyone close your eyes and fall backward. if another player in this game doesn't teleport behind you and catch you, that player who failed to teleport is mafia.

But more seriously: Trustfalls could be a worthy exercise here. I already asked Son of Anarch to do a mini version of one earlier in the game as part of a general discussion we were having.

The exercise goes like this: Each participating player goes through the entire roster of players in the game and lists a short reason or couple of reasons to town read everyone. It doesn't matter what your overall read of that player is. The point of the exercise is to force yourself to consider the possibility that each and every player is town, whether true or not.

We can also do the opposite of this (Distrustfall), where we list reasons to suspect everyone.

Then after our lists have been made we go through and analyze our lists to see which reads we feel most and least confident about. Helpful, useful content abounds. Hooray.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 pm But more seriously: Trustfalls could be a worthy exercise here. I already asked Son of Anarch to do a mini version of one earlier in the game as part of a general discussion we were having.

The exercise goes like this: Each participating player goes through the entire roster of players in the game and lists a short reason or couple of reasons to town read everyone. It doesn't matter what your overall read of that player is. The point of the exercise is to force yourself to consider the possibility that each and every player is town, whether true or not.

We can also do the opposite of this (Distrustfall), where we list reasons to suspect everyone.

Then after our lists have been made we go through and analyze our lists to see which reads we feel most and least confident about. Helpful, useful content abounds. Hooray.

That sounds like something I won't be participating in. LOL

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 pm But more seriously: Trustfalls could be a worthy exercise here. I already asked Son of Anarch to do a mini version of one earlier in the game as part of a general discussion we were having.

The exercise goes like this: Each participating player goes through the entire roster of players in the game and lists a short reason or couple of reasons to town read everyone. It doesn't matter what your overall read of that player is. The point of the exercise is to force yourself to consider the possibility that each and every player is town, whether true or not.

We can also do the opposite of this (Distrustfall), where we list reasons to suspect everyone.

Then after our lists have been made we go through and analyze our lists to see which reads we feel most and least confident about. Helpful, useful content abounds. Hooray.

That sounds like something I won't be participating in. LOL

That sounds about right, yeah

I’m about to head out for a bit so I can’t do my own trustfall/distrustfall at the moment, but it’s something I will do later, and I encourage folks to give it a shot. If we want to organize a period where a big group of us do it simultaneously, that could be arranged.

I’ll come up with one later too. Gonna finish my current hunting project first.

To those who are interested (I realize not everyone works this way):

The game seems to be difficult. I'm not sure if everyone feels that way, but I know that I do, and I am getting that general impression from some others too. I don't know if "difficult" means "mafia team full of town reads" or "generally confusing and difficult to parse" or something else, but regardless if we're going to change that situation it's on the town faction to take the challenge by the horns. The status quo doesn't seem to be helping much. Some general suggestions from me:

1) Give the Trustfall a try as described by Sloonei, both to explore your own mindset for biases and to give others a chance to understand you better.

2) Think about some of the things in the game that most concern you and have someone you trust most take a look for your sake. Relieve your own internal biases by relying on a teammate who might not suffer them.

3) Use every tool in the toolbox. However it is you go about solving a Mafia game, I suspect it's more than just one thing you can conceive of trying. Try them all. Diversify your hunt to leave fewer stones unturned. I am about to use at least two distinct tools that I haven't used yet this game.

4) Without overwhelming her, give SPF a clear idea of where you're struggling so she can, to the best of her ability as time permits, provide some trustworthy counsel.

5.) Read the game again. This is something I usually would not do, but I might give it a try if I can. This comes from the Voxx school of town, and I think it's well-advised at least for people with the kind of brain that can properly absorb a thread when it isn't actively moving in front of them.

6.) Decide what kind of game we find ourselves in. That's my goal right now. We don't have much hope of identifying the mafia team if we don't even have a decent notion of how they might be approaching the game.

Again, not everyone is going to care about doing these things. That's fine. I am speaking specifically to people who feel similarly to me right now, like this game needs some direction and like town needs some cohesion. We're getting messy, and the mess needs cleaned up. That's our job.

A number of my reads have oscillated somewhat and it's only middle of Day 2. Lime Coke, Johanna, TSP, and Sloonei are the primary ones that have done that for me. I'm not terribly concerned about that. For me, I think I spent too much time focussing on only the players that I could interact with at the times I was here, and have slowly expanded my attention elsewhere. That's led me to a bit of a suspicion of Dolby, and good feelings about ilario. There is still a group of players I don't have a solid grasp on: Axehole, SoA, falcon, G-Man, and I'll add JJJ to that mix too.

I do agree that mafia is difficult, and by substitution, this game is difficult. Letting it feel or become easy is a quick way of letting a win slip from our grasp due to complacency.

I'll continue working on my list of unknowns, but that will come later today. I'll probably passively read the thread, but be doing other things the next few hours.

I also have some thoughts about Sloonei's proposal of discussing who we think carried out the poison. My thoughts might not be relevant, but I plan on pursuing that topic later this day phase.

As for a trustfall exercise, I'll probably partake in one. Never done one, sounds fun.


I will certainly not read the whole game thread again. I haven't even read the whole thing through. I will look at ISOs instead.

@ilario and @Dyslexicon could each of you please talk a bit about how you've found each other in this game and what has bolstered your confidence?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:52 pm To those who are interested (I realize not everyone works this way):

The game seems to be difficult. I'm not sure if everyone feels that way, but I know that I do, and I am getting that general impression from some others too. I don't know if "difficult" means "mafia team full of town reads" or "generally confusing and difficult to parse" or something else, but regardless if we're going to change that situation it's on the town faction to take the challenge by the horns. The status quo doesn't seem to be helping much. Some general suggestions from me:

1) Give the Trustfall a try as described by Sloonei, both to explore your own mindset for biases and to give others a chance to understand you better.

2) Think about some of the things in the game that most concern you and have someone you trust most take a look for your sake. Relieve your own internal biases by relying on a teammate who might not suffer them.

3) Use every tool in the toolbox. However it is you go about solving a Mafia game, I suspect it's more than just one thing you can conceive of trying. Try them all. Diversify your hunt to leave fewer stones unturned. I am about to use at least two distinct tools that I haven't used yet this game.

4) Without overwhelming her, give SPF a clear idea of where you're struggling so she can, to the best of her ability as time permits, provide some trustworthy counsel.

5.) Read the game again. This is something I usually would not do, but I might give it a try if I can. This comes from the Voxx school of town, and I think it's well-advised at least for people with the kind of brain that can properly absorb a thread when it isn't actively moving in front of them.

6.) Decide what kind of game we find ourselves in. That's my goal right now. We don't have much hope of identifying the mafia team if we don't even have a decent notion of how they might be approaching the game.

Again, not everyone is going to care about doing these things. That's fine. I am speaking specifically to people who feel similarly to me right now, like this game needs some direction and like town needs some cohesion. We're getting messy, and the mess needs cleaned up. That's our job.

I don't feel the game is difficult, but it's not impossible for me to be wrong.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:17 pm I don't feel the game is difficult, but it's not impossible for me to be wrong.

In the midst of my current work I may be settling back into confidence. I'll see when I am finished, but I get you.

some assorted thoughts as i try to make sense of this game:

-i think it's safe to assume that jagged and sloonei are aligned with each other. yes, there could exist a theoretical world where one of jagged/sloonei is a wolf that is fooling the other, but in terms of sheer probability, i believe the dynamic that exists between jagged and sloonei in this game is an aligned dynamic

-on that note, i still believe that their dynamic is a town one. while it's pretty easy to tinfoil players like jagged/sloonei in scenarios like these, i do not see any concrete reasons to be suspicious of them beyond: "they played a huge role in the thread yesterday, and a villager got chopped". this is not a cause for concern by itself, and i otherwise take no issue with jagged/sloonei's posting today. sloonei's play is far more vibrant, expressive, and pointed than the brief wolfgame i played with him a while back (i know this is not a perfect point of comparison), and jagged generally has enough takes that feel distinctly townsided that i do not believe he's trying to pull the game into a nefarious direction

if anyone here has any specific concerns about jagged/sloonei that they'd like to express before the day ends, i think it would be beneficial for the entire thread

-solving the game beyond that point becomes immediately more difficult. i would like to emphasize that in a world where the dynamic of illario/lime coke contains a wolf, it likely contains one wolf at most. their dynamic has raised some red flags in my mind as being an "unpure" dynamic, but i do not believe the two of them fit particularly well as partners. i am usually quite good at reading lime coke, and when i had the opportunity to interact with him toward the end of yesterday, i felt that he was most likely a villager. the lack of interactions i've had with him today + my own concern about his dynamic with illario have made me doubt myself a little bit, so it's a priority of mine to interact with lime coke before the day ends so that i can out a solid legacy read on him. for all of the concern that i'm expressing about the illario/lime coke dynamic, i don't actually find either of those players explicitly wolfy - i do not consider illario to be a shining beacon of villageryness, but i quite like that he has been tinfoiling the players with a stronger presence today, and it aligns quite well with how he tends to approach these situations as a villager

i don't know what johanna's wolf-range is like, but i have been village reading the majority of her posts today. there is a vagueness to some of johanna's reads that makes her an easy tinfoil target in my eyes, but what's notable to me is that a lot of johanna's posts are accusatory in a way that wolves that are trying to integrate themselves in the game typically are not. johanna throws out a lot of suspicion and a lot of side-eyeing in a scenario where i suspect one of her bigger concerns would be establishing a good rapport with the rest of the game/collecting townreads. although i could nitpick some of her posts, i get the impression from her ISO that she is actively invested in the process of solving the game, and that makes me lean on her being a villager. not a super strong read, but it's where my brain is currently at

i have similar feelings about notanaxehole - i don't know what his ranges are like as either alignment and i find his playstyle fairly difficult to parse, but the notable thing to me about NAA is the fluidity in the reads that he has been outing. he has shifted stances (his progression on sloonei is particularly notable to me here) in a way that does not feel married to a specific agenda/narrative, and i think his reads have gotten more and more townsided as the game has gone on. i would keep an eye on his slot depending on the direction this game goes on, but i do not consider him to be an immediate concern

i have some thoughts about TSP that i am unsure if i should express. i think it is impossible to know his alignment at this stage in the game

i can't say that my reads are super developed beyond that stage - i have not been able to follow/think about the game today as closely as i would have liked to. i get the impression that this is a game that will be solved through flips above all else, and the reality is that a wolf-flip in this game is going to break the entire game open. as such, our number one priority should be on chopping a wolf, regardless of how deep or non-deep they are

if i can indulge in a moment of selfishness, my current feeling is that my solve in this post is still more or less correct:

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:03 am jaggedjimmyjay
sloonei
dyslexicon
sonofanarch
illario
lime coke
notanaxehole
dolby
johanna
g-man
falcon
TSP
marmot
sig

i do not think this is The Solve, and looking at this list more, i actually suspect i'm misreading someone in my list of towns (perhaps i should be taking a closer look at my read on Son Of Anarch - i wrote him off as town almost immediately when i have no idea what his range is like or how competent of a wolf he is), but i think it's a good enough place to start. current feeling is that there's a wolf or two in the bottom 4 names and then another wolf or two in the zero posters, and then one final wolf in the upper tier. that might an overtly convoluted way to explain my reads, but it's just how i'm looking at the game rn

AMA

i am doubtful that the wolves would kill me if my solve was 100% incorrect, even though i do not think i nailed the solve spot-on. i want to particularly draw your attention to the last paragraph of that post, of which i consider to be significantly more important than the order of the list itself. i think that the general assessment of: "there is a wolf or two in the bottom names, a wolf or two in the (then) 0-posting slots, and then one wolf buried higher among the townreads" is likely to be correct. i would change the order of that list slightly if i was to re-write that post now.

my immediate feeling is that the pool of g-man/falcon/TSP contains at least one wolf, but i don't have any strong reasoning to substantiate that

also, i am not particularly interested in "leading" the chop today. it was pretty common when i played chat mafia for the mechanically confirmed players to "lead", and while i find that beneficial in some ways, you lose a lot of the benefit of wagnomics/spew analysis/real-time scumhunting when one player has arbitrarily decided the chop for the rest of the players

i would ask people to take my reads into serious consideration, but it is not my priority to have people sheep what i'm saying

Thanks SPF. That ilario-Lime Coke dynamic is one that I think I need to be more attentive toward. My read on both of them has encountered turbulence, and maybe I should just can it for a bit and rely on them to tell me about each other. They know each other far better than I know either of them.

Gonna violate what I just said, because I just rediscovered this post and might hate the highlighted line.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:53 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:50 pm @Lime Coke you got any half-baked thoughts bubbling under the lid that you haven’t expressed yet?

Nothing of detail yet I just liked Dizzy's energy this game.

I mostly skimmed the thread upon catch-up so I missed a majority of Falcon and Axehole posts.

Falcon's interaction with me feels like town!Falcon where he does things that just ping the hell out of me and I'm inclined to tunnel him. Not married to the thought but I don't think I vote him today.

That's a good way to encourage the destruction of a hypothetical town falcon without assuming personal investment in it. He's pingy, he makes me want to tunnel him, he's town, not married to that, but don't want to vote him.

It's difficult to dissociate falcon from anyone on the basis of aggression when he is suspicious of everyone.

I'm realizing gradually that much of my confusion with this game can be resolved with one move: Lime Coke mafia

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:20 pm I'm realizing gradually that much of my confusion with this game can be resolved with one move: Lime Coke mafia

Just to expand quickly:

- There are some more TMI-looking posts I could refer to early in Lime's post history.
- Their progression on ilario is dubious.
- My initial suspicion that ilario might have poisoned SPF can just as validly be attributed to Lime instead.
- The POE doubts I have had are sorted by removing one of my town reads to help occupy the vacancy.
- They started the game awkwardly and had to settle into the rhythm almost by instruction.
- A lot of people suspect the slot more than I have before this moment anyway, and much of the turbulence may just start with me being wrong.

For others:

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:36 am

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:12 am Also 'sup Lime Coke. I've got a few thoughts floatin' around inside my noggin, but I'm gonna plead the fifth right now until things develop further. One thing I will say though is that it's interesting that two people have Sloonei as town so early.

Actually, now that I'm typin' I'm thinkin' that with meta n' stuff it makes sense, but it's kind of an interestin' read for Lime Coke to make. I think Jimmy gets credit for havin' the original read. Lime Coke, you're not a read thief now are ya?

I’m willing to bank the entire game on this game being town lmao

I have voiced some uncertainty about both ilario and Son of Anarch, and there's a relationship between them that has encouraged that in my brain. Reads like this one settle in there and encourage a more paranoid view of things, and as I assess interactions presently I carry that bias with me.

How do we feel? Just assume ilario is mafia for the sake of argument (not saying he is, and right now I doubt it): is this promoting a teammate or straight up pocketing?

To ensure I am not misinterpreted: I am well aware that it doesn't have to be either one. I am assessing team connections and this is one I am torn about. My brain tells me to say it's not compatible, but not my whole brain.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:51 pm We're considering Sloonei to be obvious town, right? Despite both breaking Pranay Rule and SPF's attempt at calling a shot his entrance post was incredibly smooth.

If this is true I am looking forward to working with this man.

"Despite doing the thing that is apparently bad, Sloonei is obvious town".

Similar to my previous gripe about Lime's treatment of falcon.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 pm @ilario and @Dyslexicon could each of you please talk a bit about how you've found each other in this game and what has bolstered your confidence?

Magic.

To be real, it’s an emotional or almost visceral read of trust. I immediately vibed with his eagerness to find town, it felt good talking to him, and the way he reacted to us having that connection was just “hey that’s how I feel!”. And this has been reinforced all the way, and it feels almost like a sacred promise that I don’t think will disappoint (yes, I realise how “dumb” or over the top this may sound in a mafia game, but that’s how it feels). Apart from that bond, I also find myself mindmelding with him constantly when it comes to his actual content which is even more insurance, but the “magic” stuff is honestly more important.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:04 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 pm @ilario and @Dyslexicon could each of you please talk a bit about how you've found each other in this game and what has bolstered your confidence?

Magic.

To be real, it’s an emotional or almost visceral read of trust. I immediately vibed with his eagerness to find town, it felt good talking to him, and the way he reacted to us having that connection was just “hey that’s how I feel!”. And this has been reinforced all the way, and it feels almost like a sacred promise that I don’t think will disappoint (yes, I realise how “dumb” or over the top this may sound in a mafia game, but that’s how it feels). Apart from that bond, I also find myself mindmelding with him constantly when it comes to his actual content which is even more insurance, but the “magic” stuff is honestly more important.

Thanks. I don't think it's dumb. Sometimes intangible camaraderie and kinship are meaningful and cannot be easily explained.

Jimmay, I see you’re already on board with Like likely just mafia. But since you asked: The post that sticks out the most to me is how he complained that others looked worse than him and felt it unfair that he was being scum read. It just didn’t feel like town having actual valid concerns about other slots, just the awareness or expectation that low contributers “should” look worse (and the word choice is also off - not “is worse” or “is suspicious”, but “looks worse”). It’s self serving in a way that just doesn’t seem to have any town mindset behind it, especially when taking into account that he had been very happy about walking along with thread consensus and allegedly felt good about that. I believe we got a glimpse into the actual emotion, and I don’t think it’s a town one.

And now I’ll feel like shit if it is. But that was my immediate reaction, and it still is

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:06 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:04 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 pm @ilario and @Dyslexicon could each of you please talk a bit about how you've found each other in this game and what has bolstered your confidence?

Magic.

To be real, it’s an emotional or almost visceral read of trust. I immediately vibed with his eagerness to find town, it felt good talking to him, and the way he reacted to us having that connection was just “hey that’s how I feel!”. And this has been reinforced all the way, and it feels almost like a sacred promise that I don’t think will disappoint (yes, I realise how “dumb” or over the top this may sound in a mafia game, but that’s how it feels). Apart from that bond, I also find myself mindmelding with him constantly when it comes to his actual content which is even more insurance, but the “magic” stuff is honestly more important.

Thanks. I don't think it's dumb. Sometimes intangible camaraderie and kinship are meaningful and cannot be easily explained.

Do you think it’s wrong though?

I gotta be honest with ya. You guys have posted A LOT today and I'm not used to posting being this fast. This is due to shorter phases on this website for sure, which I'm still adjusting too. So, I'm gonna be honest here and admit I have not read everythin' and just skimmed what I missed.

To answer your question though Jimmy, I think ilario is town. I actually can't understand why people are freakin' out so much either. sig was scummy, but never a sure shot. The fact people are goin' crazy and sayin' we need to flip our world view doesn't sit right with me at all. Now if ilario keeps leading me down a wrong path or I keep missin', I'll look over it some more, but I trust him for now.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:14 pm Do you think it’s wrong though?

At the moment no I don't. I have been exploring some conspiracy-level power-mafia possibilities, and one I wanted to address was the connection between you and ilario (as theoretical mafia teammates). I have been doing a ton of stuff behind the scenes here though and doubt that's the case. You two do fit together, but that only matters insomuch as either of you has to be mafia first. It's not that different from someone tinfoiling Sloonei and I as mafia teammates really, just without the vast past experience.

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:15 pm To answer your question though Jimmy, I think ilario is town. I actually can't understand why people are freakin' out so much either. sig was scummy, but never a sure shot. The fact people are goin' crazy and sayin' we need to flip our world view doesn't sit right with me at all. Now if ilario keeps leading me down a wrong path or I keep missin', I'll look over it some more, but I trust him for now.

To be clear, I don't think world views need to be flipped. Perhaps mine did on Lime Coke, but generally speaking naw. The game felt turbulent, and I am working my way back into steady air. I will post stuff very soon to explain more, but I feel a lot more comfortable right now than I did two hours ago.

I'll probably vote for the guy I least town read today. Just tryin' to figure out who that is, heh.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:17 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:14 pm Do you think it’s wrong though?

At the moment no I don't. I have been exploring some conspiracy-level power-mafia possibilities, and one I wanted to address was the connection between you and ilario (as theoretical mafia teammates). I have been doing a ton of stuff behind the scenes here though and doubt that's the case. You two do fit together, but that only matters insomuch as either of you has to be mafia first. It's not that different from someone tinfoiling Sloonei and I as mafia teammates really, just without the vast past experience.

I'd feel more comfortable calling JJJ-Sloonei mafia before Dizzy-ilario mafia, but both pairings are unlikely imo.

Actually it's not that hard, I'm between two people right now.

I was just about to bring something up about Anarch that might’ve ended me and Ilario’s mindmeld lol. But yeah, you’ve seemed more in the backseat this day. Though I guess you addressed that.

Question though: What do you think Ilario’s intentions of giving you (and me) a lock town read in the way that he does? Cause for me, I just can’t really see any ill intent in that. OR basically: How do you feel about our triad?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:17 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:14 pm Do you think it’s wrong though?

At the moment no I don't. I have been exploring some conspiracy-level power-mafia possibilities, and one I wanted to address was the connection between you and ilario (as theoretical mafia teammates). I have been doing a ton of stuff behind the scenes here though and doubt that's the case. You two do fit together, but that only matters insomuch as either of you has to be mafia first. It's not that different from someone tinfoiling Sloonei and I as mafia teammates really, just without the vast past experience.

I mean, that would be fucking awesome, but no. Next time maybe wowee

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:21 pm I was just about to bring something up about Anarch that might’ve ended me and Ilario’s mindmeld lol. But yeah, you’ve seemed more in the backseat this day. Though I guess you addressed that.

Question though: What do you think Ilario’s intentions of giving you (and me) a lock town read in the way that he does? Cause for me, I just can’t really see any ill intent in that. OR basically: How do you feel about our triad?

I feel good about the triad. I think you and ilario are the two people I've been trustin' the most so far and I don't really have any reason to doubt that right now. I'm in the backseat 'cause of the high-volume of posts, bein' a lot busier with work now that it's not a weekend, and just generally not bein' too worried about the game state. I don't think ilario had ill intentions behind lockin' us town, but I do want to point out that that is a pretty loaded question. 'Cause either his intentions are pure and he's town or they're not and he's mafia. I'm thinkin' he's town so I'm thinkin' his intentions are pure. It would be pretty brave for a mafia to try and form an alliance like that, but not impossible. However, part of the reason I even trust him so much is because you're also in this "triad" with me and since I have reasons to think you're town, that at least means I'm not gettin' suckered in by two mafia. If he's pocketin', he's pocketin' both of us and that's way less embarrassin' to me.