Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[speedchuck]

The polls thread doesn’t have the night poll. Does anyone else?

I’m convinced enough that sig is bad both through his behaviour, his choice to pull out that event when he did, and the flavour of the host post to start looking at some interactive analysis.

First step is who greased the wheels on sigs quill win.

Once the game picked up, the polls completely slipped my mind. I have the night poll and will be putting it up.

I do not have the day 1 poll at all. Currently looking for ways to fix that. I will compensate one way or another.

Remember, if you are missing information, or if I haven't clarified something mechanically, don't hesitate to ask questions. You guys need all the information you can get.

[MacDougall]

The polls thread doesn’t have the night poll. Does anyone else?

I’m convinced enough that sig is bad both through his behaviour, his choice to pull out that event when he did, and the flavour of the host post to start looking at some interactive analysis.

First step is who greased the wheels on sigs quill win.

I already interactively analysed him and found everyone pretty sound except Spacedaisy, Lapluie and Turnip Head.

[ColinIsCool]

If sig is bad — and I think he is — what’s the scum utility of that ability, exactly? Struggling to square this away.

[MacDougall]

If sig is bad — and I think he is — what’s the scum utility of that ability, exactly? Struggling to square this away.

Blinks himself into the future?

[Golden]

I have to say I don’t agree with inhs case on Luna, same behaviour as Ancient Greece, but I independently see her as compatible with a bad sig.

Golden, you're not making much sense here. You don't agree with INH's analysis of my posts, but you think I'm bad because I defended sig?

I think inh's stuff is NAI. You were also like that in U-Pick as he pointed out, so it doesn't make you good.

And I don't think you must be bad given your behaviour towards sig, but you're the first one that comes to mind that I need to look into.

[Golden]

If sig is bad — and I think he is — what’s the scum utility of that ability, exactly? Struggling to square this away.

Given we don't know much about how it works, it's hard to say. I'd say he will unvanish at some point in the future, but I think we can also reasonably assume that it had different effects depending on when he used it (or maybe he was just thinking of trying to return to the game in a lylo situation and swing the win).

But he actively wanted to use it from pretty much the get go, so I'd say it has utility that we aren't aware of.

[MacDougall]

If sig is bad — and I think he is — what’s the scum utility of that ability, exactly? Struggling to square this away.

Given we don't know much about how it works, it's hard to say. I'd say he will unvanish at some point in the future, but I think we can also reasonably assume that it had different effects depending on when he used it (or maybe he was just thinking of trying to return to the game in a lylo situation and swing the win).

But he actively wanted to use it from pretty much the get go, so I'd say it has utility that we aren't aware of.

His role probably has him skip a certain number of days or phases and come back. It seems more bad than good.

[ColinIsCool]

Yeah actually that does feel bad. Sort of a spin on the unlynchable scum I was in Easter, except only unlynchable for a period of time. Thanks.

[Scotty]

The polls thread doesn’t have the night poll. Does anyone else?

I’m convinced enough that sig is bad both through his behaviour, his choice to pull out that event when he did, and the flavour of the host post to start looking at some interactive analysis.

First step is who greased the wheels on sigs quill win.

Once the game picked up, the polls completely slipped my mind. I have the night poll and will be putting it up.

I do not have the day 1 poll at all. Currently looking for ways to fix that. I will compensate one way or another.

Remember, if you are missing information, or if I haven't clarified something mechanically, don't hesitate to ask questions. You guys need all the information you can get.

Cool, thanks!

Question #1: was sig bad?

[Golden]

This is why sig's ability is bad, just based on his own behaviour:

1) He didn't take the offer of being protected by the cop and using it a day later
2) He didn't tell us what it did, not even that he would 'vanish', even after he decided he was going to use it
3) He fully used tactics to try and avoid taking votes like 'maybe I'm lying about being unlynchable', anything he could to get us off lynching him today, short of providing any honesty.

He was all about creating chaos and drama and not about assisting the town in this move, to me.

[Spacedaisy]

All my thoughts as I caught up:

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I'm about 85% sure he's mafia and sent the PM to quin to get INH and myself lynched all the while absolving himself of blame for our deaths.

This is bullshit.

If you were a civilian, and you knew yourself for a civilian, and Quin got a message saying you and INH were not "aligned," you should have been ready to bury INH.

Instead, you're making up funny theories about the origin of the message.

^ This

By the way, in case it eluded anybody's attention, INH all but claimed not to be a civilian.

INH's reaction was what I was waiting for, but it must've slipped by me. Can you please share where he did this?

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I'm about 85% sure he's mafia and sent the PM to quin to get INH and myself lynched all the while absolving himself of blame for our deaths.

This is bullshit.

If you were a civilian, and you knew yourself for a civilian, and Quin got a message saying you and INH were not "aligned," you should have been ready to bury INH.

Instead, you're making up funny theories about the origin of the message.

Nope it isn't, I'm doubtful that the message is good I think its a baddie power. I don't see why that's so odd.

Though seeing how so many people jumped on me maybe I'm wrong and INH is mafia and i'm being pushed by his teammates. BUT I doubt it.

On what basis do you believe this message comes from the forces of evil? Be clear.

I'm a civ
I believe he's a civ
I think it's just as likely that this is a mafia power as a civ power and that thoughts compounded by the fact that nobody else seems to question it.
I think mafia would send a PM saying that one of two civ players aren't civ to get us both lynched and distract the thread from anything else.

See there is very little that could convince me that the other person info has been revealed about is civ if it came down to me or them being civ. Unless I was bad and knew they were civ. If you are civ sig, why are you convinced INH is civ also?

This is some sloppy shit from sig. That's all I've got to say.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine

Ok so lynch all three but INH first?

Epi goes from voting his apparent mafia read to his indy read. Then claims his indy read is a mafia read. But if so, what's his sig read been all about, because this all started with the two clearly not being compatible with each other?

And Epi still wants to lynch both of them... even though he now apparently thinks INH is bad, with no evidence that sig would be indy...

His logic is all over the place inconsistent.

I disagree about his logic. As soon as Quin claimed this is where it leads. Lynching all three of them. My concern is if Epi was involved in it. Consider this Golden. IMagine yourself a civ with a power like you believe Quin has. Would you out your power immediately after finding two people were unaligned? Or would you watch them and try to decide which you suspect, build a case on them?

You see the problem we are actually in with this info claim?

Epignosis are you actually a doctor or were you talking shit? Because there's a bit of an elephant in the room here given Scotty seems to be counter claiming.

What am I missing? What was the claim and the counter claim?

Scotty is both town and doctor.

How are you so sure of that?

This. I am completely baffled by everything being claimed right now. I'm guessing you don't really believe he is town and are covering for who you think is? Or, I don't know, this is all too weird.

Let's do something more fun.

sig and INH are Booker DeWitt and Comstock. That is to say, both have been swept away by the Luteces. They're not here.

Who gets your vote and why?

Quin, hands down.

People I will not vote for:
Golden
Scotty
Epi

[speedchuck]

The polls thread doesn’t have the night poll. Does anyone else?

I’m convinced enough that sig is bad both through his behaviour, his choice to pull out that event when he did, and the flavour of the host post to start looking at some interactive analysis.

First step is who greased the wheels on sigs quill win.

Once the game picked up, the polls completely slipped my mind. I have the night poll and will be putting it up.

I do not have the day 1 poll at all. Currently looking for ways to fix that. I will compensate one way or another.

Remember, if you are missing information, or if I haven't clarified something mechanically, don't hesitate to ask questions. You guys need all the information you can get.

Cool, thanks!

Question #1: was sig bad?

No harm in asking tho

[Golden]

Daisy

I'd probably do what Quin did. You know me.

But not necessarily every time. It would depend on the circumstances.

In this case, I went in to the day with sig higher on my 'good' radar than inh. It was their respective reactions that flipped my mind. This is the reason I tend to do stuff like that.

Plus, I'm not sure if Quin's thing was his 'power'. That would seem overpowered if it wasn't one shot. I think it's possible that it's an item of some sort he got to use, or possibly a one-shot... hard to say.

[Spacedaisy]

Yes I realize I changed my mind during the catch up completely on Epi. Should be clear why though.

If Golden is correct about the flavor text (IF) I might hesitate a bit to vote Quin.

I'm not sure where it leaves me though. I still don't think INH is bad. I could see him being 3P like Epi suggests though. But I'd rather lynch people I find actually suspicious first.

[mention]Kylemii[/mention] You haven't asked me what I think of you yet. It makes me think you are bad.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] Can we consider the host posts as anything more than just flavor for flavor's sake? Or are they completely just flavor?

[mention]Golden[/mention] I wouldn't do what Quin did. the only way I might consider it is if it was a one time use ability. And I would not shoot my mouth off about two people until I felt like I had a handle on which was more suspicious.

[Scotty]

I kinda want to lynch SpaceDaisy but I might be in the minority.

And not like minority report, the badass movie

[Golden]

I kinda want to lynch SpaceDaisy but I might be in the minority.

And not like minority report, the badass movie

I am just not in sync with Daisy at all this game.

Her taking issue with Quin is soooo far off the mark to me. It makes no sense for him to do what he did if bad. But Daisy is looking at it from the opposite perspective (it's not what she would do if town). I don't think this is a good perspective, because people act differently from each other as town.

I need to do a proper read up on her. I keep putting it off. I think now is the time.

But I still 'feel' she is town in my bones. Her effort and perspectives seem genuine, even though I pretty much disagree with every single one.

[Spacedaisy]

If it was one shot, then if I had done what he did IO would have made it damn clear that was the case, which he hasn't. Because he painted a big old target on himself with what he did otherwise. It seems reckless and possibly wasteful to me. That said, it depends on whether or not there is something to your text flavor point. And whether or not sig was actually bad. Because if sig is bad, then Quin is not. And neither is INH. This is assuming the message is true.

[mention]Golden[/mention] You should know by now that you can trust me. I was trying to prove myself, and I would hope you were watching well so you caught it.

[Golden]

If Golden is correct about the flavor text (IF) I might hesitate a bit to vote Quin.

Forget flavour text. Everything sig did suggests he was bad, from start to finish.
You agree with my perspective that INH is looking townish.

This leads me to 'quin's info was accurate'.

You seem too worried about why Quin would put a target on his own back if he's town. I think your own mindset is very RM (keep info close to the vest, use it carefully). But I don't understand why the approach you would have taken would necessarily have been objectively the townie mindset, just a different mindset, so I don't see how that leads you to 'quin is suspicious'.

[Kylemii]

@Kylemii You haven't asked me what I think of you yet. It makes me think you are bad.

the last time i asked you what you thought of me i actually was bad, but also the entire reaosn for me asking that in most cases is to determine your alignment, why would I need to ask that if I already had a read on you.

[Golden]

Daisy, I do think you're town and I have taken a leap of faith, but that's different from fully trusting you

Or at least, perhaps it's accurate to say I trust you but not blind to the need for constant re-evaluation.

[Golden]

It seems reckless and possibly wasteful to me.

Not telling the mafia you are now vanilla and painting a big old target on your own back is far from wasteful. It's smart.

I am not that smart. I still have an RM survivalist streak in me.

[Spacedaisy]

I'm putting my on [VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine for now.

Because you came to it too easy. I like thinking you can read me, but it worries me that amidst everyone throwing shade at me, you came to trusting me too easy. I'm worried you're pocketing me.

[Kylemii]

asking you what your read on me is in now way a specific town quirk for me, but not only that it's probably like in the top ten things list of things i do that would be specifically hella easy to replicate in both alignments, so why should that thing or the lack of that thing be worthy of note? [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]

[Spacedaisy]

Even when you ask, you never come to a read of me that quick that I recall ever seeing.

[Kylemii]

I'm putting my on [VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine for now.

Because you came to it too easy. I like thinking you can read me, but it worries me that amidst everyone throwing shade at me, you came to trusting me too easy. I'm worried you're pocketing me.

i think you're putting way too much weight on that, it was a day one impulse ping, and you're treating it like i declared you a 100% town read. I don't know if I can read you or not, I just made it my new games resolution that I'd try to be more impulsive and trust my isntincts a little mpre is all

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Daisy] aubergine

[Scotty]

Mac’s gripe about Turnip Head may be founded, and I wouldn’t be so averse to going there, especially with his multiple heehaws of “I’m halfway to winning the game” shit

[speedchuck]

@speedchuck Can we consider the host posts as anything more than just flavor for flavor's sake? Or are they completely just flavor?

All topic flavor is for fun only and is written on the spot, with no regard to alignment or role flavor.

[Scotty]

@speedchuck Can we consider the host posts as anything more than just flavor for flavor's sake? Or are they completely just flavor?

All topic flavor is for fun only and is written on the spot, with no regard to alignment or role flavor.

Huh. There goes Golden’s flavor theory.

I still think he was bad tho.

[MacDougall]

Page 32 is creeping me out.

[Scotty]

Page 32 is creeping me out.

Why

[MacDougall]

Golden thinks sig is bad and resigns to interactively analyse.

I offer that I already have and found, among others, Spacedaisy wanting.

Spacedaisy does a catch up post that Golden vehemently disagrees with and finds it weird.

Golden diverts away from his plan to microanalyse Daisy herself.

Golden gives her a town read.

The progression is illogical.

[Spacedaisy]

I can accept you found me wanting. I voted for him at night and didn't really have a strong read on him either way. But I'm town. Civs can look bad too because we have no outside information, we're depending on our own intuition and interpretation.

[Golden]

@speedchuck Can we consider the host posts as anything more than just flavor for flavor's sake? Or are they completely just flavor?

All topic flavor is for fun only and is written on the spot, with no regard to alignment or role flavor.

Huh. There goes Golden’s flavor theory.

I still think he was bad tho.

Yep. It’s a shame, I thought speed could have been compensating for the lack of reveals.

But I think sigs behaviour was more than sufficient.

[Kylemii]

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

[Golden]

Golden thinks sig is bad and resigns to interactively analyse.

I offer that I already have and found, among others, Spacedaisy wanting.

Spacedaisy does a catch up post that Golden vehemently disagrees with and finds it weird.

Golden diverts away from his plan to microanalyse Daisy herself.

Golden gives her a town read.

The progression is illogical.

That’s because it’s not accurate in the least.

Put I give her a townread at the top.

Delete me diverting any plan to divert away from microanalysing her, because I have that plan.l and haven’t diverted away from it in the least. I could see a world in which daisy is pocketing me and I remain very open to the possibility, for now. I’ll have a firmer view either way only by microanalysis.

Add me reiterating my current read at the bottom.

Then you have the progression correct.

[Scotty]

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

[Golden]

PS I may have missed it but I haven’t seen any rationale for your own reads, Mac.

[Kylemii]

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

[Scotty]

Also I just noticed dat host option on the poll.



Nice

[Spacedaisy]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] Can you check your DM's from me on discord? I need to know if I have your approval before I upload the banners

[Scotty]

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

[speedchuck]

Also I just noticed dat host option on the poll.



Nice

[Scotty]

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

[Golden]

Who is Handcock?

Sounds like someone is making a joystick joke to me.

[Kylemii]

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

yesssss exactly.

if we lynch him early then we don't know what alignment he died with but if we let him achieve his stated wincon we'll know if he was lying.

if his wincon claim is a definite lie then we can comfortably lynch him based on that evidence, but if we lynch him before it can come to fruition then turnip head remains a mystery until the end.

[Scotty]

I just want answers, man..

All I know is the future is unwritten and it’s what we make of it

[Kylemii]

i love that song

[ColinIsCool]

Quin didn’t paint a target on his back if he is in fact a stump, as he has claimed.

[Golden]

Yeah, I really do think Quin is town at this point. I've got a good feeling about him.