The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:45 pm Sorry, other time. Were you town?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:41 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 pm I still have to reconcile the possibility of scum Mac with what you are doing right now and slfgknqasdlignadlfg but yeah I like where your head is at right now Mac. I think.

MP. I woke up after having a very long sleep in a very clear headed state with a big smile on my face.

I flipped open my laptop and had a look at the thread.

I saw Sprityo had, again, just painted over my posts with "no u" everywhere.

Rather than calling him names I decided to just make a very reasoned post. I felt so confident that I was right, that I drafted it up like closing arguments in a court room addressing the people.

You are so used to seeing me be cynical and blunt that you got completely pinged by the fact that I didn't yell at him. That is literally all that happened. You then got so fixated on being right about it that you proceeded to make excited posts declaring that you cannot be wrong.

Now that I am back, in no small part because you put back here in my normal place of meta, you are back to reading me as you normally do.

This is exactly what I was referring to in the actual post you called me "town as fuck" in. To a freakin' tee.

You accused me of having an agenda. Yes, I had an agenda. My agenda was trying to drum up a lynch wagon on a guy I think is scum.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:48 pm Now, I need the rest of the thread's help. Sanity check: am I insane for thinking there's no good reason to point out a scumslip, waffle on it, and then say you never thought it was a scumslip in the first place? Is Alien just asking lots of questions because he's super friendly, has just it it off with JJJ organically, and waffling on reads because he's new and doesn't know anyone? Does he truly suspect MP is mafia?

I think the answers to all these are a resounding NO. It makes sense to me that he's been caught trying to push a lynch with no accountability, that he's being really nice to JJJ (and polite to the thread in general) in order to curry favor, that he's waffling so as not to be pinned to a bad suspicion, and that he threw out a (first post!) garbage case on MP because that was the one person he knows and he knew roughly what reaction he'd get. However, if my case is weak and/or I'm tunneling, I want to hear about it and have it out now.

Linki: Thanks, MP. And yeah, I didn't include it in my case except to quote JJJ, but he's right - having you as his sole suspicion is nuts imo.

LOL DH good memories. And MP, Goldfuss FTW!!!

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:46 pm Fun fact there's a Game of Champions that I technically lost but got an Honorary win from because everyone illegally outted themselves including MP

Epi was the host it was pretty fun.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:49 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:44 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:43 pm cool fact, if you lynch me tomorrow it will be the third time in a row I've been lynched or night killed in a game on my birthday, not counting years in which i wasn't active in mafia.

Kyle were you mislynched the other times?

i was surprise mislynch last year while i was out doing birthday things, i think i was town. or maybe it was a nightkills, I don't remember. I don't even remember what game it was lol

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 pm Does Kyle usually ask a lot of questions? Like, maybe it’s the alcohol but this pinged me:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:37 pm players who know infected alien, how would you characterize their civ gameplay? mafia gameplay?

do they often go out of their way to weigh in on things, both positively and negatively? is there a correlation to alignment or is it a consistent behavior across the board

When I’m scum I frequently will pose questions not necessarily related to anything in the thread that are juuuuust relevant enough to make it look like I’m attempting to solve. That’s what this post felt like.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:09 pm That feeling when your best friends wanna get rid of you Day 1

abyssum wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:46 pm

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:01 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:49 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:23 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:18 pm Luna is bad, anyone wanna fight me?

Hi Turnip Head, what makes you say that?

Idk k ask me later

I will. I'm trying to decide if you're town, and attempting to scum-hunt, or if you're mafia and trying to stir up interest on an easy townie lynch. The "Idk k ask me later" answer makes me think it's the latter.

linki MP of course

I get a bad vibe from this post. It feels like a bit of a forced read? Like, it's so easy to find what Turnip did as suspicious but gut-wise I just don't see it as suspicious at all because it's so obviously suspicious, yet Luna is sinking her teeth into it a bit here. This combined with her saying I have a commentary vibe to my posts with little opinions, which I disagree with and makes me wonder if her read there is genuine too, makes me suspicious of her.

what, you think what Turnip Head is doing is too suspicious to even be suspicious? what's your thought process here? why can't Lunalee view this as a legitimate suspicion and comment on it? this almost reads like you're not really suspecting this post but are instead trying to disagree with Luna's read on you without actually just quoting it and saying "no you're wrong."

i should hope you disagree with Luna's less-than-favorable read on you (you know if you have opinions, you know if you've been in commentary mode), but why doesn't THAT read genuine to you? you can't just say that nothing seems genuine without giving any reasons as to why. if you disagree, OK, but lay out why you think that instead of just saying that you're suspicious of Luna. disagreeing with a read doesn't mean that that read came from scum, and not thinking a read is right doesn't mean it's insincere

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:12 pm Do it Dougall. Set the dogs loose upon me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:18 pm Note on Kyle: I normally feel his civilian presence pretty quickly. Right now I don’t. I struggle to remember his stances, because I only know of one post off-hand in which he shared any.

abyssum wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:52 pm

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:18 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:32 pm Look at Tsaiah asking questions and shit.

TSAIAH IS PURE AS FUCK

I WILL CUT ANYONE THAT KILLS HER

Again the confidence in her purity even though you've never played a full game with her so presumably don't know her that well pings me. I agree she looks like she's genuinely solving but I also think she could be faking it, and I don't share your confidence in her being so pure to that degree, which is why it pings me

we just got out of a game where you saw town!MP7 do this exact thing with me, and we had never even come close to playing a game together--we talked for a couple days pre-game and that's literally it. can you explain what makes the circumstances with tsaiah look different here? what, if anything, makes MP7 look more like he's pocketing or talking to a buddy than him being town?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:43 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 pm Does Kyle usually ask a lot of questions? Like, maybe it’s the alcohol but this pinged me:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:37 pm players who know infected alien, how would you characterize their civ gameplay? mafia gameplay?

do they often go out of their way to weigh in on things, both positively and negatively? is there a correlation to alignment or is it a consistent behavior across the board

When I’m scum I frequently will pose questions not necessarily related to anything in the thread that are juuuuust relevant enough to make it look like I’m attempting to solve. That’s what this post felt like.

I have wrongly accused Kyle of this exact thing before. Kyle what game was that in? It was very recent.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:01 pm Kyle was a mafioso in the 2017 GOC, and meta considerations should probably start there. I tend to view his play as pretty consistent though. The element which seems to be missing this time is less about his tone or his joviality and more about his relevant effort. He may never be one of the most active hunters, but I am used to seeing more than I have in his present 66 posts.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:08 pmKyle is a complete question mark to me almost always and I am never comfortable.

abyssum wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:15 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:06 pm

abyssum wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:50 pm i can do my best to explain tsaiah's meta if REALLY pressed on it, but i haven't played with her as scum in a long while and i'm not particularly good at explaining people's meta "in general." if i give meta, it's usually a very specific point (like discussing off-topic stuff at EOD being more indicative of her scum game), not an overall take on it

it's not a tool i personally heavily utilize, so it would be a bad idea for you to consider tsaiah's play based on my clumsy explanations of her meta.

I really think she'd be less present and more fluffy if she was scum here. What do you think of that?

It also helps that I feel like I can genuinely understand how she's arrived at pretty much every conclusion or question she's posted so far.

i think that Tsaiah is likely town here based on what i've seen from her so far (caveat: want to see her words on why i'm becoming townier to her). i don't think she's incapable of faking this presence or fluffiness as scum, especially this early in the game, but i do think it's something that would degrade more as the game went on

unless, of course, you're both scum together, in which case she could probably do this forever

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:27 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:43 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:00 pm Does Kyle usually ask a lot of questions? Like, maybe it’s the alcohol but this pinged me:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:37 pm players who know infected alien, how would you characterize their civ gameplay? mafia gameplay?

do they often go out of their way to weigh in on things, both positively and negatively? is there a correlation to alignment or is it a consistent behavior across the board

When I’m scum I frequently will pose questions not necessarily related to anything in the thread that are juuuuust relevant enough to make it look like I’m attempting to solve. That’s what this post felt like.

I have wrongly accused Kyle of this exact thing before. Kyle what game was that in? It was very recent.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fiddler on the roof maybe? it was one of the first games we played together, it was my first Mac experience.

fire emblem? fuck idk

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:43 pm unencouraging

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:00 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:49 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:44 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:43 pm cool fact, if you lynch me tomorrow it will be the third time in a row I've been lynched or night killed in a game on my birthday, not counting years in which i wasn't active in mafia.

Kyle were you mislynched the other times?

i was surprise mislynch last year while i was out doing birthday things, i think i was town. or maybe it was a nightkills, I don't remember. I don't even remember what game it was lol

I am just wondering why when you said this:

"if you lynch me tomorrow it will be the third time in a row I've been lynched or night killed in a game on my birthday"

You did not in fact say something more like this:

"if you lynch me tomorrow it will be the third time in a row I've been mislynched or night killed in a game on my birthday"

Just a little odd. I would be very conscious of being killed as town three times a row on my birthday but you didn't townclaim in this post.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:49 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:43 pm unencouraging

The word is discouraging brah

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:48 pmWay more recent than Fiddler. Maybe I've done it a few times. All I know is that I made a huge deal out of the fact that you were asking loads of questions. It was like super recent.

Wait why the sudden flip onto Kylemii? I'm willing to join the wagon, but I just don't understand why.

RobotNerd277 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:30 pmI think I like Kylemii. Not sure why. (Apparently MP agrees)

RobotNerd277 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:41 pmWait why the sudden flip onto Kylemii? I'm willing to join the wagon, but I just don't understand why.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:03 pm @Tsaiah and @abyssum and @Infected_alien8_ and @RobotNerd277 y’all are cool and fun and neat and super and we’d all be fortunate to have you around for more games okay? Okay

abyssum wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:57 pm

Spoiler: show

some reads/impressions on the game so far:

ColinIsCool - encouraged people to give extra meta for specifically scum play, which is a +1 in my opinion. the post itself is pretty open-ended and inclusive, which i think indicates more town behavior (attempting to assess a wide range of people in the game + generate content about those players). i feel conflicted about him spelling out that he isn't willing to vote for new players on exactly D1; i think it's a good policy that avoids some of the easier mislynches of the game, but the need to spell it out more than once is so-so. liked his progression on alien.

he's done a couple things that i'm not a fan of: he asks the thread-at-large if sprityo picking apart Mac's reads list was hunting or discrediting without offering his own opinion til prompted, but i'm holding off on really evaluating him on that point since it's the dead end of his ISO.

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DharmaHelper - will not stop talking about the fact that he hasn't read the game, which got annoying about the third time he mentioned it. unfortunately, not reading the game isn't technically AI. he started my ISO but i think he dropped it because i haven't seen anything else. he makes me laugh but unfortunately that isn't AI either. idk call me when he starts playing the game for real and i'll reassess.

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Infected_alien8_ - ok, so i'm assigning alien the color i chose for "slight scum," but it's mostly because i'm being pulled in a few different directions with him and i don't wanna slap the neutral color down on him bc he's done scummy+towny stuff (not just Nothing). i could see him as either town or scum as of right now, and i'm worried that i'm having some difficulty reading him because of how recently we played together where he was scum, but whatever. he's absolutely the towniest of the 'slight scum' and could probably do with his own color or tier, but eh.

i've already stated that i think alien's entrance to thread is towny. it's a lot more solid and less hedge-y than Alien was in wildcards (where he was scum), and even though i disagree with his points on MP7, i can sort of understand where it's coming from: Alien played two games with a town MP7, and the last game Alien was scum while MP7 was town; if Alien is town in this game, then his last experience of MP7 was seeing him post in a very town-like manner (because Alien knows he is town), and now he can't see his posts at the same level of towniness because he doesn't have that confirmation. i have zero difficulty seeing that post/its proximal follow-up as coming from town.

where i'm not following is where he does things like accuse Lunalee of not being genuine before he ever tries to engage her on where he thinks she's wrong. he says that she is wrong about him being in commentary mode/not having opinions: fine. he says that her thoughts about not only him, but about Turnip Head, are not genuine and make her scummy: not fine. it doesn't feel like he's trying to solve there, it feels like he's trying to shade.

points in favor: seems to be posting more loosely now than in wildcards, seems to want follow-up on his thoughts, invites thread to participate in his thoughts, tone might be good? (i have decent vibes off of his posts but i'm not sure if this is tone or just me being stupid)
points against: strayed a bit more toward overexplaining as the game has gone on, seems laser-focused on MP7 without a lot of willingness to reassess (it feels like every few pages that MP7 posts, Alien pops up to say it's scummy without considering town possibilities), suspicion on Lunalee seems odd, has an "off" feeling about me that he can't seem to get a grasp on even when i engage him about it.

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JaggedJimmyJay - i had a townread form on Jay somewhat early, which is sometimes a bit worrisome for me but i think is probably fine here. he came out of his cage giving opinions on everything, which i like a lot. he seems like he's in Takes Everything Seriously mod & also seems to be encouraging content on a similar level to MP7, but not in the same places (if it was in the same places, i'd feel like Jay might be just following MP7 around and echoing him or vice versa, so that's a bonus). i liked that he suspected me at first and later gave some sensible light aby-could-be-town reasoning; his posting on MP7 has been pretty solid as well.

there are some things i really love in the way he posts, too. like letting people respond to things before responding to them himself/giving his own take, even though he clearly has one--it's a minor thing but i think it reflects a townie's mindset pretty well and also indicates valuing process over appearance IMO. maybe it's a little too minor, but it's something that i really like seeing.

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Kylemii - seems to be posting in a lighthearted way that could probably easily veer into detached, but i don't think it has yet. he posted asking people about their histories, and when Jay responded saying that he thought it reflected poorly on kyle, kyle turned that on its head with a question that i liked. generally a good look. he called me soft good which is better than normal good because it's softer and therefore better fight me. (actual impression: i think his reads list makes sense and doesn't feel like he's padding it or unnecessarily shading anyone).

overall doesn't feel like he's feeling a lot of pressure in particular, but is keeping up and doing his thing anyway. he's not posting in a high-volume/wordcount way but there's thoughts there that i don't have to fight for.

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Lunalee - her first notable post is a reads list that i like the formatting of (i'm a sucker for things that jump out at my face, ok?) and is in reverse alphabetical order, which is fun. there are some sort of empty reads there, though idk if i can fault her for it considering it was D0 and she didn't seem to indicate reading the entire thread. her interaction with Robot on sprityo/Mac is kind of weird; i think it's a worse look for Robot than it is for Luna (obviously it could be bad for both of them). i think her take on it is a little bit too summary-like, but has an interesting take on it that i like (and iirc is not actually in line with the thread consensus).

she doesn't seem to have any issues with her opinions and doesn't seem interested in changing them without a good reason to do so (can be seen pretty easily in alien engaging her on sprityo). she has a couple of things that are a little immediately off-putting to me (like saying "you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game" to MP7), but i've seen similar things from MP7, so it may be a cultural difference...? would appreciate somebody who's used to this forum weighing in on that.

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MacDougall - a bit aggressive at times/in directions that i don't always fully understand. a lot of his posts seem like he's just reacting to things that happen in the thread (especially-to-almost-exclusively the ones that pertain to him) instead of producing much of his own content, but it's early so that may be a shit take. i don't like him admitting to trying to adhere to his town meta; i don't intimately know his play history so the context may change that, but i kind of just want to automatically lynch people who make admissions like this.

i like him telling Jay to go back to suspecting him. it's funny and probably comes from town more often than not. i liked his conduct with MP7 post-mutual outburst, too. i'm leaning on the side of him being town that plays in a self-centered way (i really don't know how to word this in a way that doesn't sound rude; i think it's a legitimate way to play for a lot of people) and expresses frustration easily.

some more points in favor: i like him appearing to engage people genuinely once he's calmed down a bit (appears to do this without calling somebody town/giving credit to them, but engages them anyway). if his statements about viewing meticulousness being a mafia trait are accurate (anyone w/ experience with Mac that wants to weigh in on that?), i don't think his posting matches up to that.

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Marmot - i was frankly surprised Marmot had even 8 posts, so i guess my memory sucks.

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M Plus 7 - i am not ISOing MP7 as a whole. bite me. i like his enthusiasm and his eagerness to both post and get other people to post alongside of him (the latter in particular, more strongly than the first point). more recently i like the way he pounced on Mac but then backed off and apologized for his behavior in a way that seemed sorta sheepish (in the sense of "i jumped the gun" not "oops Mac has teeth" since he'd know the latter).

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RobotNerd277 - Robot seems to be in perpetual catch-up mode so far, which isn't AI, but is a good mode to be in if you want to avoid potential scumslips. says they're trying to get a read particularly on Mac, but i'm not certain as to why; they then ping Mac to ask for a reason to not be at the bottom of their reads list. their worry with MP7 and subsequent clearing-up of that worry is an interesting progression, but i'm not sure if i think it's town or not. like i mentioned briefly in Lunalee's section, Robot leveling a question about sprityo/Mac to Lunalee is weird and almost like they're expecting to be questioned on why they're asking Luna specifically. i might feel better once Robot real-times some more.

some points in their favor: says that strong townreads are good to have early on as long as you reevaluate (caveat: robot/tsaiah could be partners, but their other interactions don't make this the likeliest in my brain). read on Jay seems good and not necessarily conventional (gives a point about liking Jay's read on me specifically; Robot doesn't have a strong townread on me so it's likely not buddying, and w/ Jay being consensus town, they didn't have to give a reason that specific). rather minor points in the long run but i want to keep them in mind.

this read is really one more about conflicting pieces of evidence than anything, and me wanting to keep my eyeballs on Robot because of it. has Robot played here before or something?

they posted this while i was ISOing Russ and i hate it:

Wait why the sudden flip onto Kylemii? I'm willing to join the wagon, but I just don't understand why.

if you don't understand why the wagon is happening, why are you willing to join it?

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Russtifinko - kinda started off with a decent and reasonable analysis of Mac and alien re: the scumslip situation. i like his interactions overall with alien, actually; Russ comes off like he's grilling him, but the logic isn't thin there. him questioning Colin on why he's high up in the reads list is a good look, and he again comes in with reasonable words with Mac and MP7-this-time. seems self-assured and willing to follow his own thoughts and he just seems really nice!

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sprityo - i hate, hate, hate the way that the Mac ISO is formatted. it's hard to read. that's not AI, i just wanted to complain about it.

what i'm getting from reading sprityo's ISO is that it's largely reactionary, which by default makes him hard to read for me. he said that Mac is attempting to distance from Jay, at the same time that Mac is giving Jay a townread--does 'distancing' mean something different in this forum than in mine? because to me, distancing implies that two scumbuddies are attempting to appear like they don't have knowledge of each other's alignment or are putting light suspicion on one another to seem like they aren't teamed. sprityo went into that ISO with the express purpose of dismantling Mac's arguments, regardless of alignment.

points in favor: good ISO of Jay, seems to be going all-out w/ Mac, sprit/Mac are an unlikely team*
points against: quickly dismissive of Mac's posting, apparent bias in assessing Mac (probably 65/35 on this coming from scum though), has two very consensus townreads (and no other townreads)

*this doesn't really matter for D1, it only matters for potential reference later on

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Tsaiah - she's posting pretty easy-breezy this game, and seems to be evaluating and poking in the places that i'd expect her to evaluate/poke. while i like that she was able to give reasoning for me 'getting townier' and the progression makes sense to me, that's only moderate confidence for me on her being town. i think for the most part, the safest way for me to go with Tsaiah is just to gaze at her warily for most of D1 and pick apart what she says and see if any of it rings false/distracting. atm she's following the flow of the thread well and seems authentic and like she's enjoying herself.

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Turnip Head - first really game-relevant post is just asking if Colin is bad without offering any of his own opinions. does the same thing later on with Lunalee. he's clearly been around and has said almost nothing that could be construed as solving or trying to progress the game forward. i don't really care if it's "too suspicious to be suspicious" or whatever logic is supposed to apply here, he's just not really moving the thread forward or showing off his shiny thoughts and i don't like it.

this is a sad read for me to have to make because i really like TH's name.

arranged more in colorful order for easier viewing:

Spoiler: show

M Plus 7
JaggedJimmyJay
Kylemii
Tsaiah
Russtifinko
MacDougall
ColinIsCool
Lunalee
Marmot
DharmaHelper
(Infected_alien8_)
sprityo
RobotNerd277
Turnip Head

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:22 pm Yes that summarises pretty much everything about me. Life, love, career. DPS. Good call.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:26 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:22 pm Yes that summarises pretty much everything about me. Life, love, career. DPS. Good call.

idk what that means, i just mean that a lot of your inherent value as a player comes from the way you dive into shit unfettered and get things done

Tsaiah wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:36 pm /kicking Aby even further away from the fence as of page 18 stuffs

/also nudging Robot a bit in that direction as of around there