Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Tangrowth]

It appears the Cybermen are trying to make up for their inability to get rid of me at night in a desperate attempt to get rid of me during the day.

(And before anyone jumps on me for this, I'm obviously not being totally serious here.)

[Tangrowth]

Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

This is the same concern I'm having re: MP, stemming all the way back to his gambit on Day 1. He accused Zeek of some trivial things early, then played that off as a gambit saying he caught a baddie in Enrique, but then he backed off of that too. And then yesterday he stayed on Daisy's case all day but kept qualifying his suspicion ("I'll allow myself to be wrong", "I could be wrong", "I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong" etc etc).

How are you feeling about Daisy these days, MP, and why?

I'm nervous about this though. This is exactly what I have traditionally suspected MP (I mean going back to years ago). I was traditionally wrong about this.
However, MP is not the same player he was back in 2010.

Certainly not, my style has evolved considerably since then.

What makes you nervous, the fact that I'm quantifying the level of confidence in my suspicions? I suppose I could understand the interpretation, but anyone who's anyone has seen that when I'm bad I have no need to fall back upon quantifying my suspicions. Or even when I'm a civvie. I am more than willing to take absolute responsibility for my votes, always. I was totally positive about juliets and wrong. I will be the first to admit that.

So why would I need to quantify my suspicions then for anything other than presenting clarity? Or am I misunderstanding what's making you nervous, Dom?

[Tangrowth]

Quantify or qualify my suspicions, for that matter, since I do both!

[Tangrowth]

By the way, here are the players I'm examining particularly closely today, just posting off the top of my head what I've been mulling over, in NO particular order:

Bullz - Azure voter N1, has been quiet, juliets voter from D1

Elohcin - juliets voter from D1, her responses felt genuine to me, but it's interesting to note that Epig, Daisy, and Enri took more votes than her yesterday

Sabie - see above for Elo, didn't take a single vote

Enrique - Suspicion has been following him but it hasn't stuck too much in the votes... not sure how I feel about him, I've felt torn between definitively genuine and not genuine during the game. Additionally, he would fit the bill of the baddies trying to keep attention onto Epig (and even Daisy) and off of him.

Daisy - Odd insinuation of concern between me and S~V~S not gunning after each other (suspicion mongering), clearly cornered in responses, Azure voter on N1, torn between believing whether the Epig push D2 was to save her or whether she and Epig were both convenient civvie scapegoats and whether I've been too hard on her

Rox - Followed my vote for Daisy, struck me as lack of genuine earlier as well as suspicion mongering, but very measured and genuine responses to my suspicion, so probably lower on my list out of all these people

Hedgeowl - I remember practically nothing about her posts this game

Made - Definitely a new game approach... he said he was suspicious heavily of Epig "all game" but for all of his posts up until his D2 declaration of suspicion against Epig he never expressed that, and failed to vote D1 and failed to even say he would have voted for Epig D1, his suspects were all those getting high amounts of attention D1, now he has suddenly gone quiet

LC - Has been uncharacteristically quiet and one of the Epig voters from D2


Will definitely consider others too, but these are the people I've been thinking about over the course of N2. And JC, to answer your question from N2, I was thinking possibly Enri or Daisy were players that the baddies were trying to keep attention away from, more so Enri because Daisy didn't really have attention on her when the N1 kills happened... but I also wonder if either or both are being scapegoated by baddies amid the genuine suspicions of them by civvies.

Anyway, that's what I have for now, curious to see what else gets brought to the table.

[keys56000000000]

Okay, so apparently you guarantee I'm bad based on behavior that isn't even mine. It does matter how many posts or from whom; are you serious? If someone finds 10 posts of someone's own words that are suspicious versus 1 post of someone else's words... surely that's a difference, yes? I won't argue with a teammate sinking anyone; I just find it odd as fuck that you therefore try to argue I should go first. If you're basing the argument that I'm bad based off of the defense of someone else -- if Dana's post TRULY is the ONLY thing that convinced you that I'm bad -- then why make up all these other WIFOM related reasons that you mentioned earlier in the game? And why lynch me before lynching her if my baddieness is conditional upon her defending me? It's simple causation-based logic, yet you haven't given me an answer to that.

And yes, I firmly believe "guaranteeing" someone as bad based off of one post posted by someone else whose alignment you also don't know to be crazy, yes. I'm not insulting you or ridiculing you; I'm sorry if you took it that way because it's clearly not. But it's incredibly illogical to conclude with such confidence in such circumstances, especially when there are so many other players you haven't issued any opinions on whatsoever.

Le sigh! Forgive me for asking, but do you think everyone playing this game is stupid, MP? You appear to be hiding in the spotlight, basic WIFOM stuff, how many times do I have to say that? Dana's unreasonable, unconvincing defense of you corroborates that. Do I need to post a definition of the word "corroborate"? And yet you keep saying I'm basing this all on one post. Do you think the rest of the civvies here are dumb?

You also failed to address my two points about zeek twice now: (1) zeek has posted even more than I have, so clearly he's taking a similar strategy. No opinion of him?

I can only concentrate on so many people after a a 14 hour intercontinetal journey, especially considering I'm still catching up. Y'know, you keep throwing out other names. What about Dana? What about Zeek? It's like you're running away from me, throwing whatever you can find into my path to slow me down. I'll get to Zeek. At the moment I feel the strongest about you, so I'm concentrating on you.

And (2), here you said:

It's great to see players getting stuck in right from the get-go! I hate games where people are too afraid to post. Good to see some balls.

Two things I want to post on.

First, my two cents on the issue of speculating on role powers. IMO it's better to put all our cards on the table. Baddies will be trying to figure this stuff out regardless of anything posted here.

Second, while I agree that it's too soon to really judge anyone, it kinda seems like MP hit on a nerve. Do I detect a bit of Dana defending Zeek? Or is it Dana jumping the gun on what she identifies as an easy lynch? Hard to tell at this early stage, but very possibly. At any rate, I certainly don't suspect MP yet, whereas Dana has "pinged" my suspicio-meter.

If Dana was defending zeek too, then surely he must be her baddie teammate too, right?

I wouldn't characterise Zeek's play as similar to yours, but you raise a good point. At the time I did feel like I might have caught something there, thanks for reminding me.

It appears your arguments are collapsing amid scrutiny, yet you fail to acknowledge that.

You talk a good talk, I have to hand it to you. You dismiss me and spin my arguments to fit your narrative quite expertly. I simply do not have the time nor the energy to counter your sheer volume of posts and their intensity, but I hope my fellow civvies will be able to identify it for what it really is: an attempt to white-wash opposition.

linkitis: lol @ MP's "I'm looking at all these people today, we'll see what sticks" post. And he calls me ridiculous and crazy.

[Marmot]

Okay, so apparently you guarantee I'm bad based on behavior that isn't even mine. It does matter how many posts or from whom; are you serious? If someone finds 10 posts of someone's own words that are suspicious versus 1 post of someone else's words... surely that's a difference, yes? I won't argue with a teammate sinking anyone; I just find it odd as fuck that you therefore try to argue I should go first. If you're basing the argument that I'm bad based off of the defense of someone else -- if Dana's post TRULY is the ONLY thing that convinced you that I'm bad -- then why make up all these other WIFOM related reasons that you mentioned earlier in the game? And why lynch me before lynching her if my baddieness is conditional upon her defending me? It's simple causation-based logic, yet you haven't given me an answer to that.

And yes, I firmly believe "guaranteeing" someone as bad based off of one post posted by someone else whose alignment you also don't know to be crazy, yes. I'm not insulting you or ridiculing you; I'm sorry if you took it that way because it's clearly not. But it's incredibly illogical to conclude with such confidence in such circumstances, especially when there are so many other players you haven't issued any opinions on whatsoever.

Le sigh! Forgive me for asking, but do you think everyone playing this game is stupid, MP? You appear to be hiding in the spotlight, basic WIFOM stuff, how many times do I have to say that? Dana's unreasonable, unconvincing defense of you corroborates that. Do I need to post a definition of the word "corroborate"? And yet you keep saying I'm basing this all on one post. Do you think the rest of the civvies here are dumb?

You also failed to address my two points about zeek twice now: (1) zeek has posted even more than I have, so clearly he's taking a similar strategy. No opinion of him?

I can only concentrate on so many people after a a 14 hour intercontinetal journey, especially considering I'm still catching up. Y'know, you keep throwing out other names. What about Dana? What about Zeek? It's like you're running away from me, throwing whatever you can find into my path to slow me down. I'll get to Zeek. At the moment I feel the strongest about you, so I'm concentrating on you.

And (2), here you said:

It's great to see players getting stuck in right from the get-go! I hate games where people are too afraid to post. Good to see some balls.

Two things I want to post on.

First, my two cents on the issue of speculating on role powers. IMO it's better to put all our cards on the table. Baddies will be trying to figure this stuff out regardless of anything posted here.

Second, while I agree that it's too soon to really judge anyone, it kinda seems like MP hit on a nerve. Do I detect a bit of Dana defending Zeek? Or is it Dana jumping the gun on what she identifies as an easy lynch? Hard to tell at this early stage, but very possibly. At any rate, I certainly don't suspect MP yet, whereas Dana has "pinged" my suspicio-meter.

If Dana was defending zeek too, then surely he must be her baddie teammate too, right?

I wouldn't characterise Zeek's play as similar to yours, but you raise a good point. At the time I did feel like I might have caught something there, thanks for reminding me.

It appears your arguments are collapsing amid scrutiny, yet you fail to acknowledge that.

You talk a good talk, I have to hand it to you. You dismiss me and spin my arguments to fit your narrative quite expertly. I simply do not have the time nor the energy to counter your sheer volume of posts and their intensity, but I hope my fellow civvies will be able to identify it for what it really is: an attempt to white-wash opposition.

linkitis: lol @ MP's "I'm looking at all these people today, we'll see what sticks" post. And he calls me ridiculous and crazy.

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

[Gotrees]

I had a strange feeling the Cybermen were going to try to kill me tonight. Nice try, suckers!

Yeah, would you care to elaborate on that, MP?

In your defense, Dana has been defending a lot of people this game. Maybe she just sees the good in people.

[Dom]

It appears the Cybermen are trying to make up for their inability to get rid of me at night in a desperate attempt to get rid of me during the day.

(And before anyone jumps on me for this, I'm obviously not being totally serious here.)

MP, regardless of how much you're joking-- you have to understand that mentioning this is eyebrow raising, right? Like... how this is a huge no u...
Also, you are acting as if you are a confirmed civvie. I am seeing a very different attitude in you, MP.

So why would I need to quantify my suspicions then for anything other than presenting clarity? Or am I misunderstanding what's making you nervous, Dom?

What seems to be happening is that the second a suspicion becomes inconvenient or unavailable you are backing off.
And that's weird.

[keys56000000000]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

[Dom]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

I don't think Metalmarsh is defending MP.
I think he's saying that it's unexplained that he survived.


MP, do you know how you survived?

[Gotrees]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

In my eyes that actually makes him a bit more suspicious.

Would like to see him give an explanation of that sentence.

[Black Rock]

Alright slowly catching up and trying to stay current.

A few thoughts on players.

Daisy seems genuine to me, I am leaning civvie here.

Enrique reads baddie to me, once again that's where my vote will probably go.

MP, I'm feeling pretty neutral about him right now. I'm not seeing anything baddie here, just pushy.

I am going to look into Epigs voters posts as well. I feel like there was a last minute push in his direction and I personally did not see why he was so suspicious. Last day is the last I need to completely catch up on so I feel like I am working with full info here.

Linki: Gotrees, how does it make him more suspicious? I might be missing something here.

[Marmot]

Let's not forget that he survived a nightkill somehow and 'had a feeling' the Cybertron's were coming after him.

There are two baddie teams, so surviving a night kill doesn't put anyone in the clear.

What does MP saying he had a feeling he would be targeted prove?

I don't think Metalmarsh is defending MP.
I think he's saying that it's unexplained that he survived.


MP, do you know how you survived?

Yes. And nightkills are fishy.

Also, I've made some progress on the Dalek Sec I believe.

Dalek Sec: The leader of the Cult of Skaro. You are responsible for leading experiments on how to evolve the Dalek race. *Secrets* If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can ------t a -a----- ---------t -- t---. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action ---- --t---- a-- --- ---- a ---- a-a--. -- ta---, --t---- -a-----. -- t-- ---- -a--- --a-- -- t-- ------ ----, that --a--- ---- --t -- a--- t- -----t----- ta---t ---- t-a- -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- -- t-- -a--. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

The capital T means there is no T previously given. I can't think of another word though.

[Tangrowth]

LMAO I can't believe people actually think I'm bad after I just nearly got killed by the Cybermen. This is just astounding.

Keys, I would NEVER throw around the words "dumb" or "stupid" in a mafia game, or outside on this site anywhere. So let's not go there. That's fine, I understand you're still catching up. But you still never explained to me why it makes more sense to focus on me if my baddieness is conditional upon Dana's baddieness. How can her defense corroborate anything when you don't even know her alignment? Do I need to post a definition of the word to you? Don't talk down to me, please. Let's keep this civil.

MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

Gotrees: I know how I survived, that's all I'm going to say.

Dom: Seriously? I never even pointed fingers at anyone for that post nor named any actual suspects. Am I not allowed to joke? I just find it preposterous as fuck that I literally just almost DIED at the hands of a mafia team which completely exonerates me from being on that team, yet IMMEDIATELY people come out of the woodwork and start suspecting me hard. And seriously, inconvenient? Did I back off of JC? Have I backed off of Daisy? I've only given exact terms of how confident I feel in all of my suspicions' content. If you think that's "backing off", then so be it. I've been MORE than clear in stating how confidently I feel about someone being bad, and there's nothing reprehensible in reconsidering your suspicion if you feel it has been logically debunked.

Tons of linkitis, not bothering changing anything

[Tangrowth]

I am just absolutely astounded at this sudden push to get me lynched. My gut reaction says it's definitively baddie-driven, especially after I wasn't even close to being a contender for practically anyone yesterday. What the fuck changed?

[Tangrowth]

Now I will understand if someone wants to peg me as The Master or Daleks (both untrue), but the very fact is we're dealing with concrete facts here: I survived an NK from one mafia team. How many other players are exonerated from one mafia team? Practically none. Are there ways for civvies to survive NKs? Yes. And yet keys especially acts like he has a guarantee that I'm bad and refuses to consider any other perspective. It's inexplicable to me.

[Marmot]

MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

I stand by what I said. Survived night kills are fishy. You're clearly not a cybertron, which makes you less suspish. I also have been getting civvie vibes from you in general. But you still survived a night kill.

Linki: You're not on my lynch list.

Linki 2: Stop posting MP and let me post.

[keys56000000000]

LMAO I can't believe people actually think I'm bad after I just nearly got killed by the Cybermen. This is just astounding.

Again, there are two baddie teams. I can't believe you are using the fact that you were targeted by one as proof that you're good. It seems to me like you think we're all stupid.

Keys, I would NEVER throw around the words "dumb" or "stupid" in a mafia game, or outside on this site anywhere. So let's not go there.

I haven't called anyone dumb or stupid. I'm saying you are behaving as though the rest of us are. You are excellent at twisting people's words. Truly excellent. If my fellow civvies can't recognise you for the bullshitter you are, we are in trouble.

That's fine, I understand you're still catching up. But you still never explained to me why it makes more sense to focus on me if my baddieness is conditional upon Dana's baddieness. How can her defense corroborate anything when you don't even know her alignment? Do I need to post a definition of the word to you? Don't talk down to me, please. Let's keep this civil.

I feel like we are just going in circles here, me repeating myself over and over and over. See previous posts. I hope my fellow civvies aren't buying this bullplop from MP.

[Tangrowth]

MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

I stand by what I said. Survived night kills are fishy. You're clearly not a cybertron, which makes you less suspish. I also have been getting civvie vibes from you in general. But you still survived a night kill.

Linki: You're not on my lynch list.

Linki 2: Stop posting MP and let me post.

Okay, totally fair. And will do.

[Marmot]

We also have 45 hours, so don't flip your shit yet. Just like how you didn't want to post much overnight, I'm sure others felt the same way. I did too as the night wore on.

[Marmot]

We also have 45 hours, so don't flip your shit yet. Just like how you didn't want to post much overnight, I'm sure others felt the same way. I did too as the night wore on.

And what I meant to add is that they are all posting since it's a new day. That's how I see it. Better than a mad rush at the end of the day.

[Tangrowth]

LMAO I can't believe people actually think I'm bad after I just nearly got killed by the Cybermen. This is just astounding.

Again, there are two baddie teams. I can't believe you are using the fact that you were targeted by one as proof that you're good. It seems to me like you think we're all stupid.

Keys, I would NEVER throw around the words "dumb" or "stupid" in a mafia game, or outside on this site anywhere. So let's not go there.

I haven't called anyone dumb or stupid. I'm saying you are behaving as though the rest of us are. You are excellent at twisting people's words. Truly excellent. If my fellow civvies can't recognise you for the bullshitter you are, we are in trouble.

That's fine, I understand you're still catching up. But you still never explained to me why it makes more sense to focus on me if my baddieness is conditional upon Dana's baddieness. How can her defense corroborate anything when you don't even know her alignment? Do I need to post a definition of the word to you? Don't talk down to me, please. Let's keep this civil.

I feel like we are just going in circles here, me repeating myself over and over and over. See previous posts. I hope my fellow civvies aren't buying this bullplop from MP.

Stop throwing around stupid and other words like it. I would NEVER insinuate this. Ever. And I am not doing it right now. I treat everyone on this site with the utmost respect, sir.

You want to sig bet then? If you're THAT confident I'm bad, how about if you get me lynched and I flip civvie, I have to determine your sig; if I'm bad, you determine mine. Deal? Because you're wrong.

[Marmot]

Also I'd love some assistance on the Dalek Sex info I posted. I'm feeling good about this one.

Linki: Lol sig bets.

[Tangrowth]

Also, I specifically JUST SAID if someone wants to peg me as Daleks or Master, sure, but they'd be wrong. I'm not using anything as "proof" that I'm good. I'm not telling anyone to accept anything.

I'm saying:

Fact. I survived an NK from the Cybermen. I claim to know why I survived. Fact, no one else has done so. Therefore, I am less likely to be bad than anyone else right now.

[Tangrowth]

Also I'd love some assistance on the Dalek Sex info I posted. I'm feeling good about this one.

Linki: Lol sig bets.

Go ahead and laugh. I almost never make sig bets. But keys is seriously pushing a crap suspicion and I want everyone to see it.

[keys56000000000]

Stop throwing around stupid and other words like it. I would NEVER insinuate this. Ever. And I am not doing it right now. I treat everyone on this site with the utmost respect, sir.

Ffs. I'm saying you are playing us for fools, for chumps. I'm saying you are underestimating our intelligence. I'm not saying you have literally insulted someone in this game.

You LMAO at us with your assertion that you are good because you were targeted by one of two baddie teams, which is obviously no proof of your civvieness at all. It's not like you can be on both baddie teams.

You want to sig bet then? If you're THAT confident I'm bad, how about if you get me lynched and I flip civvie, I have to determine your sig; if I'm bad, you determine mine. Deal? Because you're wrong.

I've never heard of anyone betting on the results of a lynch, but sure, I accept. It seems like you are throwing the kitchen sink at me in defense, hardly dissuading me from suspecting you.

[Dom]

I am just absolutely astounded at this sudden push to get me lynched. My gut reaction says it's definitively baddie-driven, especially after I wasn't even close to being a contender for practically anyone yesterday. What the fuck changed?

You, actually.
Let me begin with how when I asked about your quantifying suspicions, you brought up juliets. Then, I acknowledged my mistake-- everything was apparently hunky dory.
However, the second I didn't drop all my suspicions of you, you flipped out, and don't tell me you didn't. No one has voted, and the deadline is well over a day away.

Now I will understand if someone wants to peg me as The Master or Daleks (both untrue), but the very fact is we're dealing with concrete facts here: I survived an NK from one mafia team. How many other players are exonerated from one mafia team? Practically none. Are there ways for civvies to survive NKs? Yes. And yet keys especially acts like he has a guarantee that I'm bad and refuses to consider any other perspective. It's inexplicable to me.

MP, I'm not following keys here. I just am growing wary of an MP that doesn't seem to want to commit to anything, does not want to suspect anyone too strongly, and when questioned, says he is "astonished" that anyone would even think he is bad because one out of at least three baddie killers targeted him.
That sounds pretty suspicious to me.

[Dom]

This was supposed to be in my last post.

Dom: Seriously? I never even pointed fingers at anyone for that post nor named any actual suspects. Am I not allowed to joke? I just find it preposterous as fuck that I literally just almost DIED at the hands of a mafia team which completely exonerates me from being on that team, yet IMMEDIATELY people come out of the woodwork and start suspecting me hard. And seriously, inconvenient? Did I back off of JC? Have I backed off of Daisy? I've only given exact terms of how confident I feel in all of my suspicions' content. If you think that's "backing off", then so be it. I've been MORE than clear in stating how confidently I feel about someone being bad, and there's nothing reprehensible in reconsidering your suspicion if you feel it has been logically debunked.

MP-- I said that this is a source of internal conflict. I think you can surely see the source of my concern: that you seem to back off of suspicions as soon as they are no longer convenient.

[Gotrees]

Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

Fair enough. Still seems a bit fishy to me that you just had this magical intuition that turned out to be correct. To be honest, I wouldn't have expected you to have been on the hit list last night, but I suppose you've been playing a lot longer than I have and can probably pick up on those things easier than I can.

As for the people who are targeting you, it's possible they're Cybermen looking for quick revenge, but it's also just as likely that most of them are just suspicious civs. There's no guarantee that you aren't part of the other baddie team.

[Gotrees]

Also, gonna try to get some work done now. I'll try to get on later if it's not too late.

[Dom]

On a different subject:

Epignosis
6
Long Con (7), Made (9), Dana (13), Enrique (15), Spacedaisy (18), Chris (19)
27%

Of these people, I suspect Spacedaisy the least. I would like to hear more from Chris. I do, however, find Made and Enrique suspicious-- mostly Made. I feel undecided about Dana.
I feel extremely uneasy about Long Con because I am used to a much more active, insightful LC. I would like to see that.

[Turnip Head]

Bye Juliets You are indeed the most awesomely nice person I have ever known.
Bye MR ?
Yay Chris!
Snow Dog!!! I did not know you were playing! Missed ya!

On Day 2 Roxy said goodbye/hello to new players and newly dead ones - juliets after being wrongly lynched, MR for dying the same night I did, she even found a second to say hi to Snowy - everyone except her dear old pal TH. Is it because she doesn't love me, or because she killed me?

[DFaraday]

My initial thoughts are that MP is acting more or less like his usual self and that this sudden push to make him Lynch Candidate #1 doesn't sit well with me. I also am not sure what to make of Keys at the moment, although I think at least one of the MP pushers is probably bad.

Also, Elo was an interesting choice for a kill attempt by Strax. I'd have thought he'd go for someone not already in the discussion for lynching, but it looks like it's all about MP today anyway.

[Enrique]

Where is this MP thing coming from? Honestly, at this point, I don't see him being a baddie. And I really can't behind keys' idea that we must lynch MP because Dana made a post defending him. Seriously, what? People in mafia defend people that they think are innocent. We're baddie-hunting, not player-hunting.

If I were to rank everyone in this game from (from my point of view) civviest to baddiest, MP would be damn close to the top. Sorry, I'm just not buying it, and it surprises me that so many people suddenly do when practically nothing has changed since last night (other than him surviving a baddie kill, which again, in no way makes him bad).

[Dana]

Also, I've made some progress on the Dalek Sec I believe.

Dalek Sec: The leader of the Cult of Skaro. You are responsible for leading experiments on how to evolve the Dalek race. *Secrets* If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can ------t a -a----- ---------t -- t---. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action ---- --t---- a-- --- ---- a ---- a-a--. -- ta---, --t---- -a-----. -- t-- ---- -a--- --a-- -- t-- ------ ----, that --a--- ---- --t -- a--- t- -----t----- ta---t ---- t-a- -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- -- t-- -a--. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

The capital T means there is no T previously given. I can't think of another word though.

I had also been thinking there was a missing t in "with", but I guess we'll have to wait for verification on that. "If tails" makes so much more sense than "If taken", so thanks for that! We did have a few more words filled in, so I'll complete those here too.

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a----- experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action ---- --t---- a-- --- ---- a ---- again. If tails, --t---- -a-----. -- t-- ---- -a--- --a-- -- t-- ------ ----, that --a--- ---- --t -- a--- to -----t----- target your team -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- -- t-- -a--. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

Random would be a good word for that first blank but there are too many spaces for it. The forth sentence could be "If the coin lands..." but I'm not sure where it would go from there.

[Dana]

Whoops, got stuck in linki and posted the code post first. Not that it matters really, but posting this now.

But you still never explained to me why it makes more sense to focus on me if my baddieness is conditional upon Dana's baddieness.

Yeah, I still don't completely understand this. I made a post asking if people thought MP would be acting the way he was if he were bad. I wasn't going for a full blown defense there, but I do think he's probably civ, and I don't want to see another one lynched. If he is bad, and your suspicion of him is me defending him, why would you go after him first? It doesn't seem to make sense.

In your defense, Dana has been defending a lot of people this game. Maybe she just sees the good in people.

I always try to see the good in people!

LMAO I can't believe people actually think I'm bad after I just nearly got killed by the Cybermen. This is just astounding.

Again, there are two baddie teams. I can't believe you are using the fact that you were targeted by one as proof that you're good. It seems to me like you think we're all stupid.

Okay guys can we be nice to each other? No one thinks anyone is stupid. Keys, the fact that he was targeted by a baddie team does not definitively mean he's good, but it does mean that he's statistically less likely to be bad, because that's 1/2 of the baddie teams that he's not on.

Also wanted to comment on a few things:

Daisy - ... Azure voter on N1, torn between believing whether the Epig push D2 was to save her or whether she and Epig were both convenient civvie scapegoats and whether I've been too hard on her

Did we ever figure out if the planets did anything at all? I'm not sure why the Azure voters are suspicious. As far as I remember, BWT said he was okay with a yes/no answer from zeek on whether he had information on the poll or not, but I don't think zeek ever answered. From what I've gathered, zeek was just trying to get people to vote for what he thought was safest in the context of the show. I could totally be misremembering, though. I also agree with your second point that they were both civvie scapegoats.

Made - Definitely a new game approach... he said he was suspicious heavily of Epig "all game" but for all of his posts up until his D2 declaration of suspicion against Epig he never expressed that, and failed to vote D1 and failed to even say he would have voted for Epig D1, his suspects were all those getting high amounts of attention D1, now he has suddenly gone quiet

Made definitely did say he was going to vote for Epig on Day 1.
Quote:

what showed up on my phone the moment I walked into the stadium (sorry can't post imgur pictures as proper pictures in thread apparently)
For the little it's worth, I was going to vote epi. I have screen shots of the message I typed and intended to send if anyone would like to hear them, RIP Juliet.

Nobody took Made up on that offer, but that seemed pretty genuine to me.

Also I'd love some assistance on the Dalek Sex info I posted. I'm feeling good about this one.

Coming right up!

[Enrique]

"If the coin lands heads or the..."

linki- Dana, what's suspicious was the push for Azure when there should've been none. I'm also pretty sure zeek confirmed he had info. Also, if you read the current night post, last night's planet choice might be really important depending on who we lynch today.

[keys56000000000]

Where is this MP thing coming from? Honestly, at this point, I don't see him being a baddie. And I really can't behind keys' idea that we must lynch MP because Dana made a post defending him. Seriously, what? People in mafia defend people that they think are innocent. We're baddie-hunting, not player-hunting.

Yes, people defend people in mafia all the time, but it's not like her defense of MP was at all reasonable . What did she say again, something along the lines of asking if MP would play the way he was playing if he was bad? Essentially asking if someone would pretend to be a civvie if they were bad? The answer is obviously yes, and Dana must know that. So why did she post such a ridiculous defense of MP?

Okay guys can we be nice to each other? No one thinks anyone is stupid. Keys, the fact that he was targeted by a baddie team does not definitively mean he's good, but it does mean that he's statistically less likely to be bad, because that's 1/2 of the baddie teams that he's not on.

It actually does not mean that he is statistically less likely to be bad. That is not how probability works. He cannot be on both baddie teams.

And again, I wasn't saying anybody was literally calling anyone stupid, nor was I saying that anybody was stupid, but I'm sure everyone appreciates you coming to their rescue from me apparently being mean, insulting and disrespecting them.

[Dana]

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a----- experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action will --t---- and --- flip a coin again. If tails, --t---- -a-----. If the coin lands heads or the ------ ----, that --a--- ---- --t -- a--- to -----t----- target your team -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- -- t-- -a--. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

Are double coin flips uncommon? It would make sense for having "If tails" twice.

Dana, what's suspicious was the push for Azure when there should've been none. I'm also pretty sure zeek confirmed he had info. Also, if you read the current night post, last night's planet choice might be really important depending on who we lynch today.

But we don't know why there should've been a push for zeek's planet either. Though that is a really good point about last night's post.

What did she say again, something along the lines of asking if MP would play the way he was playing if he was bad? Essentially asking if someone would pretend to be a civvie if they were bad? The answer is obviously yes, and Dana must know that. So why did she post such a ridiculous defense of MP?

I wasn't asking if someone would pretend to be a civvie if they were bad, because of course they would. What I was asking was why someone would act so un-civvie-like if they were actually bad. I thought MP's play style on day 0 was overly suspicious, and then I rethought it and figured that I felt it was unlikely that someone who was bad would bring so much attention to themselves. I asked the thread to see what other people's opinions were, not to make a "ridiculous defense" or say that MP was definitely not a baddie.

[zeek]

I've not caught up, but holy fuck! MP, I'm worried by that night post you may be the Master.

[Enrique]

But we don't know why there should've been a push for zeek's planet either. Though that is a really good point about last night's post.

Because it seemed nice and good and people vouched for it? All the Azure votes were randoms or throwaways. But it was very close to winning anyway.

[Dana]

It actually does not mean that he is statistically less likely to be bad. That is not how probability works. He cannot be on both baddie teams.

And again, I wasn't saying anybody was literally calling anyone stupid, nor was I saying that anybody was stupid, but I'm sure everyone appreciates you coming to their rescue from me apparently being mean, insulting and disrespecting them.

I mean, I didn't take stats yet, but it did seem that way to me. No, he can't be on both teams, but we don't know which team he's on if he is on a team. Now we know he's not on one of the teams. Though it's way too late at night to get into a math discussion when I have calc in the morning.

I never said you were being mean, insulting, or disrespecting anyone. I just want us all to be friends here

[Dana]

But we don't know why there should've been a push for zeek's planet either. Though that is a really good point about last night's post.

Because it seemed nice and good and people vouched for it? All the Azure votes were randoms or throwaways. But it was very close to winning anyway.

Azure seemed nice and good too, I think. I missed that vote but I probably would have voted Azure because I like blue. Of course it was probably different in the moment. I can definitely see how, if zeek was pushing for that one planet (what was it called again?), and the baddies knew he wasn't on their team, they would probably not want to go with zeek because it might have not benefited them. Okay, I sort of understand the Azure suspicion now.

[Dana]

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a----- experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action will --t---- and --- flip a coin again. If tails, --t---- -a-----. If the coin lands heads or the ------ ----, that player will not be able to -----t----- target your team -- a-- -a- (--t---- -- ----- --t--) --- t-- ---a----- -- t-- -a--. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

[Dana]

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a----- experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action will --t---- and --- flip a coin again. If tails, --t---- -a-----. If the coin lands heads or the ------ ----, that player will not be able to -----t----- target your team in any way (--t---- -- ----- --t--) for the remainder of the game. If tails, the night action -t--- ---- --t----, --t t---- a-- -- -t--- -----t-.

[zeek]

Nobody has asked me a question. I would like it if they did.

[Enrique]

hey zeek did you have info on night 1?

[Dana]

Hi zeek did you know things about the planets in the context of this game?

Linki- Enrique are we the same person

[zeek]

Hi zeek did you know things about the planets in the context of this game?

That one isn't as clear as I'd like.

hey zeek did you have info on night 1?

Yes.

[Enrique]

oh nice what a revelation