The Syndicate

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:36 pm i have mixed feelings about carot's treatment of rej. on one hand it feels like distancing and the fact that rej wasn't too fussed with her makes it feel like he didn't care.

alison i got different feelings from after i iso'd rej and searched for alison in his iso.
there's one post in particular, where i felt like she didnt deserve a town cred from him (she had 1 post) and i called him out on it.
he made a conscious decision to address that.

it feels pretty bad to me.

what do you think?

Rej wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 am

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:30 am

Rej wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:27 am Drago doesnt like Spacemovies = bad

Dunya, Alison and Tutu are town GTH, nice energy.
Not excluding the possibility that a wolf is coordinating the mechtalk with others.

Tho nothing else pinged me for now. I am at work, will be properly active later on.

Hmmm

I'm making a note for later of stuffing Alison with 1 post between me and tutu and calling out nice energy. Something pingy about this entrance.

Well her entrance was "agressive" not passive, it pinged me and from a GTH perspective there wasn't anything negative I felt there.

So this is going to be convulted response.

Alison first made one post and then went quiet for a while on Day 0. I also remember thinking Alison is probably town if I had to pick, based on that one post.

Didnt think much of Rej's comment since I didnt know they were alien at the time, and I thought their read on Alison was towny. In general, I tend to think aliens would give more organic reads than partner/partner reads simply due to player distribution. Knowing Rej is an alien, the fact they made a read on a player (Alison) which is not at all unreasonable from an objective standpoint (well, I subjectively think its fine) is not controversial and shouldnt make you think Alison is necessarily a partner with Rej.

Interestingly it does make me more suspicious of YOU.

I dont know how you think, but on Day 0, to be thinking of potential partner interaction based on this, rather that just finding scum. Thats galaxy brain.

If Alison flips alien, I think you are a potential partner for trying to distance from Alison with TMI. No idea if this is consistent with the remainder of the game, havent looked into it. Just where I end up at after analysing your quoted exhange.

Now if you are town, you might be thinking WTF is Proto smoking?

And I conclude with, this is why I dont like to read too much into partners post flip.

convoluted

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:45 pm i do not feel comfortable having alison, dizzy and proto only protect you, nutella.

can you add a fourth.

Agree. 4 people please.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:36 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:29 pm

Iso on Alison focus on Rej. No links out of pure laziness. If any specific bit interests you, I can probably dig it up from the iso if you cant find it.
Day 1 – reads Rej Null. Seems fine. I did too I think.
Don’t see anymore on Rej from Alison in an iso.

I'm quite certain she talked a lot about townreading him (like on n1/d2)?

you are right, control+f fail from me. let me add their page 2 from iso

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:45 pm i do not feel comfortable having alison, dizzy and proto only protect you, nutella.

can you add a fourth.

It's currently dizzy, proto, and tsp, not alison.

You could be fourth if you still think we need one for that set.

Okay yeah. Dunya go for it.

protocultures wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:55 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:36 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:29 pm

Iso on Alison focus on Rej. No links out of pure laziness. If any specific bit interests you, I can probably dig it up from the iso if you cant find it.
Day 1 – reads Rej Null. Seems fine. I did too I think.
Don’t see anymore on Rej from Alison in an iso.

I'm quite certain she talked a lot about townreading him (like on n1/d2)?

you are right, control+f fail from me. let me add their page 2 from iso

Alison says they cant read Rej.
Night 1, puts Rej into their POE for not being able to read them, not for being scummy.
when forced to GTH read Rej, reads them town. This was due to prompt from Dunya, not something they volunteered, and they qualify it because they didnt want to, and its not their style.
Alison is impliedly scumreading Rej for their Hally frame post, which I read as towny, because I thought the same thing.

I see no red flags

[mention]dunya[/mention]

So I have now hard defended Carotenoid and Alison.

I should have high partner equity with them in your mind.

Do you think people reading our exchange will think we are doing scum theatre?

[mention]dunya[/mention]

Can you explain your day/night progression of yours reads on below players? Ideally with some blurb for me to follow as to why.

Epi
Tony
Longcon

I just did an iso on you. Reason I cant read you is you make a lot of short posts and ask a lot of questions, but havent seen any walls of text for me to get any sense of where your head is at. Not everyone is a wall of text kind of person, but it would help me a lot to determine your alignment if you explain your read progression on these 3 players.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:00 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:45 pm i do not feel comfortable having alison, dizzy and proto only protect you, nutella.

can you add a fourth.

It's currently dizzy, proto, and tsp, not alison.

You could be fourth if you still think we need one for that set.

I saw a lot of talk about mechanics and plans for whether or not the rest of us should use our protection on other town reads. Is there a plan for that or was that not decided?

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:45 pm i do not feel comfortable having alison, dizzy and proto only protect you, nutella.

can you add a fourth.

have I not been assigned?

I have been assigned

yeah four protects on nutella, save the rest unless someone wants to go for a hero save. Don't think it's quite optimal, but it's pretty good.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:20 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:45 pm i do not feel comfortable having alison, dizzy and proto only protect you, nutella.

can you add a fourth.

have I not been assigned?

Heh ass

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:00 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:45 pm i do not feel comfortable having alison, dizzy and proto only protect you, nutella.

can you add a fourth.

It's currently dizzy, proto, and tsp, not alison.

You could be fourth if you still think we need one for that set.

I saw a lot of talk about mechanics and plans for whether or not the rest of us should use our protection on other town reads. Is there a plan for that or was that not decided?

depends which town camp you decide to sit in.

Some people want 4 nominated saves by Nutella onto Nutella, and no saves anywhere else. I am in this camp.

Others want to keep free agency and freestyle it a bit.

See my explanation below. The math changes slightly for the updatesd playerpool but its still -EV to try to save someone imo. People disagree. Not going to make you pick a side after a few hours in this game.

protocultures wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:00 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:47 am hally was consensus townread and died with 4 bunker shots because of the dumbass plan

i (thought) im the next biggest consensus townread and im dying tonight hence i wanted to at least do something but i guess im no longer consensus townread after a quarter of the game start shading me

u guys do what u want im sure u know what youre doing

real question without intending to throw shade. Are you just a non math person?

There is an opportunity cost to try and save a bunker. It costs 1 bunker save.

There is a 1/10 chance to land a save because at the time, there were 10 bunkers up.

If you miss, you lose a bunker save achieving nothing.

Due to the 4 protects onto Nutella (3 nominated plus maverick Epi), we have a remaining pool of 36 bunker saves distributed in the pool of 10 bunkers. This assigns an average of 3.6 bunkers saves per bunker.

This means when you guess correctly, you "saved" 3.6 bunker saves at the cost of 1. So a net gain of 2.6 bunker saves. Thats IF you guess correctly. Thats one in ten times.

The other 9 times, you miss, you have spend a bunker save anyway and alien still get to kill resulting in a loss of 3 to 4 bunker saves. This is exactly what happened when rej did it, and why i hate it.

Do you just not understand this or what is your issue. Why is the plan to let bunkers die unprotected the first few nights a "dumbass plan".

Explain what YOUR plan is. Do you have one? If so, I dont recall. If you dont have a plan, and cant find any issues with the above, and didnt voice any concerns, your comments with 20/20 hindsight are unhelpful and still wrong.

I normally start this type of write-up with "a peaceful night" but there's no way this night was peaceful.

No one died, but there was still a lot of "pew pew" flying from the sky to the Earth, and vice-versa. Aliens shot. Humans hid in bunkers. Cities got destroyed. Human aircrafts tried to attack aliens to no avail. Meanwhile, the laser gun recharged.

So, with no further ado...

Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

Self voting woohoo no rules

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:46 pm Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

hmmmm... if they were paying attention they'd have known that I assigned four people to me (even if both wolves were in that group I'd be guaranteed to survive)

so either the wolves weren't paying attention and wasted a shot, or somebody successfully saved somebody else.


either way that's cool

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:58 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:46 pm Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

hmmmm... if they were paying attention they'd have known that I assigned four people to me (even if both wolves were in that group I'd be guaranteed to survive)

so either the wolves weren't paying attention and wasted a shot, or somebody successfully saved somebody else.


either way that's cool

Naw, there’s a third option but I don’t wanna talk about it at the moment

mmm I see

Nice night! I haven't been home all day, can I skip reading the night phase?

You see as in...you acknowledge what I’m saying...or as in you see a potential third option? Don’t talk about what the option is if you see it tho lol

There is technically a fourth option, that both aliens are in the middle area between townread and POE and need to keep that grouping as large as possible so they buried both KP, but like....I don’t think that’s a super likely thing to happen cause even if both aliens were in that grouping, I’m not sure how many if any of the people in this game even think in those terms/would sacrifice both KP. So yeah, technically a possibility, I’m kinda tossing it out of consideration for now tho.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:24 pm You see as in...you acknowledge what I’m saying...or as in you see a potential third option? Don’t talk about what the option is if you see it tho lol

I think I know! But I can't say it to know if it's the same one you know.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:26 pm There is technically a fourth option, that both aliens are in the middle area between townread and POE and need to keep that grouping as large as possible so they buried both KP, but like....I don’t think that’s a super likely thing to happen cause even if both aliens were in that grouping, I’m not sure how many if any of the people in this game even think in those terms/would sacrifice both KP. So yeah, technically a possibility, I’m kinda tossing it out of consideration for now tho.

I would not be likely to intentionally forego two kills. Maybe if our most townread people were really sadistic and just want to see us kill ourselves.

It's not a problem if you keep shooting aliens
Where's your head at nutella?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:27 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:24 pm You see as in...you acknowledge what I’m saying...or as in you see a potential third option? Don’t talk about what the option is if you see it tho lol

I think I know! But I can't say it to know if it's the same one you know.

We’ll compare notes later

Everyone should probably be claiming a protect or no protect from last night btw. Don’t think we can break this but we can at least make our lives a little easier potentially.

I obviously protected nobody.

Didn't protect as well.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:27 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:24 pm You see as in...you acknowledge what I’m saying...or as in you see a potential third option? Don’t talk about what the option is if you see it tho lol

I think I know! But I can't say it to know if it's the same one you know.

This

Cool I love it when I have telepathy with people

Hopefully we’re all actually on the same page

Everyone should claim protect or no protect!


Also I’m actually sort of here a bit if anyone wants to real time

Also still waiting on alison’s iso with baited breath

I did what I was told like a good boi

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:58 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:46 pm Hoping that aliens double stacked on nutes to bury KP cause people wasting bunker saves is honestly bad

Sighs

Alright well might as well claim protects last nights, I think it’s bad but whatever I’m clearly not winning mechanics arguments this game for some reason

hmmmm... if they were paying attention they'd have known that I assigned four people to me (even if both wolves were in that group I'd be guaranteed to survive)

so either the wolves weren't paying attention and wasted a shot, or somebody successfully saved somebody else.


either way that's cool

wolves assume tsp goes for some fancy play if they have two in the four tbh

after the last debacle ? you gamble on a double shot on nutella.

alternatively we have two really well positioned aliens who have the ability to wait out the town but frankly that's a loss already

Like if it's something like Proto/Mac, maybe they can do whatever the heck they want

nanook ISO incoming. I'm aware that other stuff has happened (skimmed the thread) but I've been putting this off for a bit so I'm going to focus on it first, and then do catchup stuff/responding to people.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:46 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:41 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:37 am That’s not what we’re doing lol

feels annoying to disparage my idea without even giving it a chance as if its something silly, and as if luck isnt already involved to a degree in mafia

It is silly idk what to tell you

I generally view annoyance/hostility towards perceived mechanically wrong ways of playing the setup as being town in nature (see protocultures). Obviously this is fakeable but I do think the dismissiveness from nanook here looks town.

(interrupting this nanook ISO to bring you my protect claim: I did not protect anyone last night.)

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:59 am Mafia don’t automatically win at parity and you don’t get a derpclear

IME, being really aggressive about shutting down people's derpclear attempts usually comes from town.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:05 pm Tony is town for proposing basically the same plan I did with the nifty addition of the protects coming from within the POE

I don't actually like this post - I don't think it's a good or convincing reason for reading Tony town. I think it's sort of null alignment-wise though, since at this stage in the game having forced reads can come from both town and scum. Scum forces reads because they don't have any of their own, town forces reads to try to get a sense of the game out of very little pages of content.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:14 pm Sorry Mac I think drago is scum for stuff entirely out of your control. Sorry you subbed into the wrong slot, it sucks


Semi related I’m saying 1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo

This post confused me. Nanook spent most of his time talking about mechanics prior to this, but comes out with a strong read on Dragomir scum in this post. Could be a reaction test, but... "1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo"? At the time, bimbo (Hally's slot) had no posts, so I'm just super confused why there was a relationship drawn between the slots or why a completely null slot is 50% to be a wolf.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:28 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:17 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:16 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:20 pm God damn it I didn't want to care about this game...

mac wolf?

Don’t think so tbh

Sorry this is wrong

Yes he probably is but not cause of anything he’s done, cause of drago

This post reads to me like scum forgetting their reads. Earlier, nanook already wrote "sorry you subbed into a wolf slot Mac", so he's already drawn a mental connection between Mac and the Dragomir slot (which he scumread), and thinks of Mac as wolf. This "don't think so tbh" feels like scum forgetting that they're "supposed" to scumread Mac, and then an attempt at correcting the mistake.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:05 pm Tony is town for proposing basically the same plan I did with the nifty addition of the protects coming from within the POE

I don't actually like this post - I don't think it's a good or convincing reason for reading Tony town. I think it's sort of null alignment-wise though, since at this stage in the game having forced reads can come from both town and scum. Scum forces reads because they don't have any of their own, town forces reads to try to get a sense of the game out of very little pages of content.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:01 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:14 pm Sorry Mac I think drago is scum for stuff entirely out of your control. Sorry you subbed into the wrong slot, it sucks


Semi related I’m saying 1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo

This post confused me. Nanook spent most of his time talking about mechanics prior to this, but comes out with a strong read on Dragomir scum in this post. Could be a reaction test, but... "1.5 scum between Mac and bimbo"? At the time, bimbo (Hally's slot) had no posts, so I'm just super confused why there was a relationship drawn between the slots or why a completely null slot is 50% to be a wolf.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:03 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:28 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:17 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:16 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:20 pm God damn it I didn't want to care about this game...

mac wolf?

Don’t think so tbh

Sorry this is wrong

Yes he probably is but not cause of anything he’s done, cause of drago

This post reads to me like scum forgetting their reads. Earlier, nanook already wrote "sorry you subbed into a wolf slot Mac", so he's already drawn a mental connection between Mac and the Dragomir slot (which he scumread), and thinks of Mac as wolf. This "don't think so tbh" feels like scum forgetting that they're "supposed" to scumread Mac, and then an attempt at correcting the mistake.

these are good takes

Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:50 am

Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:29 am

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:10 pm my sole mission is this game is to bury rej and i must be alive D2 to see this through

I am back.
I see Hally got killed and I saw this weird post. I was on her shotlist and idk how. I wish things had ended differently.

Seems like a simple frame kill to me. I am not interpreting much into the night kill but I am really curious about what others have to say about it.

I am at work but once I read all opinions about the NK, I might get a fresh and super cool PoE!

Hally was a widely townread player, what makes you jump to "frame kill" as opposed to "this player was killed because they were widely townread"?

Frame kill, because Hally suspected me before she said Sayonara, tho one could think it would be profitable for me to kill people that suspect me if I were scum, but nah
I am bashed by everyone anyway.

This is how they welcome back Rej

I am a Bunker and if anyone wanna know who I protected last night, it was Epi

Well shit.

If the only protection I ever get is the fake kind, that explains three kids.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:38 pm Like if it's something like Proto/Mac, maybe they can do whatever the heck they want

Wash your mouth out with soap young man

ASS BLAST TSP

no

Nothing really stands out to me D2, but that was because the vast majority of the posts are like mechanics discussion and nanook insisting on their favored protection scheme. That's probably slightly town.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:46 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:44 am Should I be tinfoiling you nook?

Idk I was kinda hoping to skate for awhile tbh

The blatant admission of wanting to skate off (tempered by the knowledge that nanook has timing issues so can't commit much to the game until later on and a promise to contribute more come D4) is something I read as town in a vacuum, although this seems very within nanook's scum range.