The Syndicate

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 pm So Lucy, who in your qualifier game do you think showed the sort of tunneling/aggression that you're expecting? Just want to get a baseline.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:38 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to hear some personal opinions from you, rather than simply reiterating data from the game like a human Modbot. What reads do you feel most strongly about? What do you think of the JJJ/Seanzie argument?

Well, I think JJJ/Sean can be added to the "not w/w" chart, for starters. I think they were talking past each other in that argument. I still trust JJJ, partly because wolves in general want to keep the POE as open as possible and looking at interactions like he's doing is a way of narrowing it. None of it is "clearing", and JJJ isn't claiming that it is, it's just a way to help focus our attention. The other two that were in my top 4 yesterday were Boq and Lucy who I still feel mostly good about, though they've both dropped off a bit today so there hasn't been as much to go on. I'm more interested in the middle Falcon voters today (Fingersplints/Creature/Dizzy/Ender), less interested in the late voters (you and Lucy jumped on near EOD when I wouldn't expect wolves to pile on a runaway town flip). I was also feeling good about Marmot going into today, mainly because I thought their reasoning for sussing Ender near EOD was a good thread to pull, and game state wise I wouldn't expect a wolf to start a late wagon when they could just coast to the misyeet that was already in progress. So the sus going their way today has me wondering if I'm missing something.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm Nate did you post a generic readlist?

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:54 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm Nate did you post a generic readlist?

I dunno, probably?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:15 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:14 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:30 am I'll be a little busy for the next 12 hours or so, my apologies. I have skimmed fingersplint's posts this page and been left with a generally good impression. Would like more elaboration on how Ender read Dizzy's entrance; which part of it was a towntell, etc.

If I elaborate it won't work anymore lol.

Keeping a read cryptic so you can use it in future games is dumb. You have already been extremely cagey this game; I would like you to please elaborate on the tell you used to read Dizzy.

Please wait 3-5 business days for a response.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:38 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:36 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:35 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:30 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:28 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:26 pm think about it, the more time you spend doing something the more emotions you put into it, the more feelings you thusly express. simply applied it to what I saw

So do you expect Jay to be fuming?

he's more mature than you, or has played more. either way I expect to see no real emotion from unless someone does something mod kill worthy

Haha, so you find me immature enough to get super emotional while playing, but then you're not seeing that so you're confused. Meh, I can be pretty immature, but hopefully I hold my emotions in enough most of the time.

Anyways, I misread Lucy's original post that kinda spurred this discussion, it isn't as clear as I thought that she has meta on me that she shouldn't otherwise have.

again, I am just that good

Well, your read on me still doesn't really make sense and suggests you need to read my ISO more carefully, but that is a fight I don't feel like fighting, so I'll leave it at that.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:55 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:54 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm Nate did you post a generic readlist?

I dunno, probably?

Do you know where it is? lucy and I are on a hunt for one, and she thought you'd posted it.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:48 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:23 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:53 am JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

Did you ever find the time to give me an update on the game/reads from your perspective? I asked you about it yesterday and I know you said you were still catching up.

I did not, no. There are still a few pages from yesterday during the (US) day that I haven't read, but I have more time today to catch up the rest of the way and stay current. I'll give you some thoughts, though, starting off with @JaggedJimmyJay's request for 4 town names. My top town would be JJJ, Mac, Boq, and Lucy. I know that has significant overlap with "most active". But JJJ and Boq both seem to be doing their own thing and solving independently while also making sure the overall thread state is moving in a positive direction. None of JJJ/Mac/Boq seem all that concerned with triangulating their reads so they match up (as one example, Boq's early town leans had overlap with Mac's early scum leans). Lucy I still just think is town from overall comfort level and tone. I think she'd be more self-conscious about not having reads as a wolf, especially when Mac was prodding her about it.

The tier below that (call it town leans) I'd put you (Sean) and Alison. You've trended up for me. I kind of vibed with Falcon's early read of you being "stiff", but that was mostly Day 0. I think Day 1 your pushes have made sense to me and you're poking at things in a solvey way. I had some initial concern that you were trying to keep Lucy in the POE, but you explained why Mac townleaning her stood out to you, so fine. Alison I'm townleaning at this point mostly from overlap between our town and scum piles, and she's been broadly engaging with players in the game rather than keeping a narrow focus. Do you still feel like her push on Rondo was just to cause disruption? It hasn't seemed to play out that way.

Some flavor of null on Creature/Dizzy/Ender/Fingersplints/Marmot. Of those it bothers me the most that I don't have a read on Ender. In our qualifier he projected a lot of solving towniness that I don't see here, but he was also a wolf in that game, so I'm not sure how to apply that meta. Creature I haven't gotten any specific pings from; seems like there's concern that their lack of activity is telling, but I have no meta there. So I think those are my two nulls that I want to sort in some fashion.

That leaves Falcon/Rondo/Wilgy as POE, which I really don't think is the exact team because that would be wild. I'm still fine with my Falcon vote, the only thing that makes me paranoid is how many people seem to agree with me. With both Falcon and Rondo they're in my POE because I get hints of agenda poking through the fluff. Wilgy's mostly here from, well, process of elimination, but I also didn't like his reaction to a towncore forming and asked him for more thoughts on that.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:58 pm (watch it be my readlist, which is admittedly generic)

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:00 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:55 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:54 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm Nate did you post a generic readlist?

I dunno, probably?

Do you know where it is? lucy and I are on a hunt for one, and she thought you'd posted it.

I think this was my biggest read post from yesterday:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:48 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:23 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:53 am JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

Did you ever find the time to give me an update on the game/reads from your perspective? I asked you about it yesterday and I know you said you were still catching up.

I did not, no. There are still a few pages from yesterday during the (US) day that I haven't read, but I have more time today to catch up the rest of the way and stay current. I'll give you some thoughts, though, starting off with @JaggedJimmyJay's request for 4 town names. My top town would be JJJ, Mac, Boq, and Lucy. I know that has significant overlap with "most active". But JJJ and Boq both seem to be doing their own thing and solving independently while also making sure the overall thread state is moving in a positive direction. None of JJJ/Mac/Boq seem all that concerned with triangulating their reads so they match up (as one example, Boq's early town leans had overlap with Mac's early scum leans). Lucy I still just think is town from overall comfort level and tone. I think she'd be more self-conscious about not having reads as a wolf, especially when Mac was prodding her about it.

The tier below that (call it town leans) I'd put you (Sean) and Alison. You've trended up for me. I kind of vibed with Falcon's early read of you being "stiff", but that was mostly Day 0. I think Day 1 your pushes have made sense to me and you're poking at things in a solvey way. I had some initial concern that you were trying to keep Lucy in the POE, but you explained why Mac townleaning her stood out to you, so fine. Alison I'm townleaning at this point mostly from overlap between our town and scum piles, and she's been broadly engaging with players in the game rather than keeping a narrow focus. Do you still feel like her push on Rondo was just to cause disruption? It hasn't seemed to play out that way.

Some flavor of null on Creature/Dizzy/Ender/Fingersplints/Marmot. Of those it bothers me the most that I don't have a read on Ender. In our qualifier he projected a lot of solving towniness that I don't see here, but he was also a wolf in that game, so I'm not sure how to apply that meta. Creature I haven't gotten any specific pings from; seems like there's concern that their lack of activity is telling, but I have no meta there. So I think those are my two nulls that I want to sort in some fashion.

That leaves Falcon/Rondo/Wilgy as POE, which I really don't think is the exact team because that would be wild. I'm still fine with my Falcon vote, the only thing that makes me paranoid is how many people seem to agree with me. With both Falcon and Rondo they're in my POE because I get hints of agenda poking through the fluff. Wilgy's mostly here from, well, process of elimination, but I also didn't like his reaction to a towncore forming and asked him for more thoughts on that.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:00 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:58 pm (watch it be my readlist, which is admittedly generic)

no it was much more heinous, but I'm gonna spend any of my 4ish hours of time I have in my home alone looking for that read list

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:38 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to hear some personal opinions from you, rather than simply reiterating data from the game like a human Modbot. What reads do you feel most strongly about? What do you think of the JJJ/Seanzie argument?

Well, I think JJJ/Sean can be added to the "not w/w" chart, for starters. I think they were talking past each other in that argument. I still trust JJJ, partly because wolves in general want to keep the POE as open as possible and looking at interactions like he's doing is a way of narrowing it. None of it is "clearing", and JJJ isn't claiming that it is, it's just a way to help focus our attention. The other two that were in my top 4 yesterday were Boq and Lucy who I still feel mostly good about, though they've both dropped off a bit today so there hasn't been as much to go on. I'm more interested in the middle Falcon voters today (Fingersplints/Creature/Dizzy/Ender), less interested in the late voters (you and Lucy jumped on near EOD when I wouldn't expect wolves to pile on a runaway town flip). I was also feeling good about Marmot going into today, mainly because I thought their reasoning for sussing Ender near EOD was a good thread to pull, and game state wise I wouldn't expect a wolf to start a late wagon when they could just coast to the misyeet that was already in progress. So the sus going their way today has me wondering if I'm missing something.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:52 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 pm So Lucy, who in your qualifier game do you think showed the sort of tunneling/aggression that you're expecting? Just want to get a baseline.

Seven, lag kinda, Shinichi at the end + spiderz throughout and Gorta. especially seven

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:02 am

Spoiler: show

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:00 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:55 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:54 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm Nate did you post a generic readlist?

I dunno, probably?

Do you know where it is? lucy and I are on a hunt for one, and she thought you'd posted it.

I think this was my biggest read post from yesterday:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:48 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:23 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:53 am JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

Did you ever find the time to give me an update on the game/reads from your perspective? I asked you about it yesterday and I know you said you were still catching up.

I did not, no. There are still a few pages from yesterday during the (US) day that I haven't read, but I have more time today to catch up the rest of the way and stay current. I'll give you some thoughts, though, starting off with @JaggedJimmyJay's request for 4 town names. My top town would be JJJ, Mac, Boq, and Lucy. I know that has significant overlap with "most active". But JJJ and Boq both seem to be doing their own thing and solving independently while also making sure the overall thread state is moving in a positive direction. None of JJJ/Mac/Boq seem all that concerned with triangulating their reads so they match up (as one example, Boq's early town leans had overlap with Mac's early scum leans). Lucy I still just think is town from overall comfort level and tone. I think she'd be more self-conscious about not having reads as a wolf, especially when Mac was prodding her about it.

The tier below that (call it town leans) I'd put you (Sean) and Alison. You've trended up for me. I kind of vibed with Falcon's early read of you being "stiff", but that was mostly Day 0. I think Day 1 your pushes have made sense to me and you're poking at things in a solvey way. I had some initial concern that you were trying to keep Lucy in the POE, but you explained why Mac townleaning her stood out to you, so fine. Alison I'm townleaning at this point mostly from overlap between our town and scum piles, and she's been broadly engaging with players in the game rather than keeping a narrow focus. Do you still feel like her push on Rondo was just to cause disruption? It hasn't seemed to play out that way.

Some flavor of null on Creature/Dizzy/Ender/Fingersplints/Marmot. Of those it bothers me the most that I don't have a read on Ender. In our qualifier he projected a lot of solving towniness that I don't see here, but he was also a wolf in that game, so I'm not sure how to apply that meta. Creature I haven't gotten any specific pings from; seems like there's concern that their lack of activity is telling, but I have no meta there. So I think those are my two nulls that I want to sort in some fashion.

That leaves Falcon/Rondo/Wilgy as POE, which I really don't think is the exact team because that would be wild. I'm still fine with my Falcon vote, the only thing that makes me paranoid is how many people seem to agree with me. With both Falcon and Rondo they're in my POE because I get hints of agenda poking through the fluff. Wilgy's mostly here from, well, process of elimination, but I also didn't like his reaction to a towncore forming and asked him for more thoughts on that.

it was this without any explanations, just names

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:06 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:36 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm I'm down.

Thank you.

One line of investigation that may be obvious but still doesn't tend to get the dedicated, systematic analysis it warrants is to individually assess the votes on the large mischop wagon of Day 1. We have a bunch of people who took part in that wagon who were all responsible for justifying their participation somehow. If we examine the full progression of each voter on their falcon reads we can try to determine with some reasonable degree of depth their sincerity.

I will likely do this myself, but two sets of eyes are better than one.

Okay so, thinking time.

Ender
Mac
Jay
Alison
Lucy
Nate
Fingersplints
Dizzy

I know I'm town
Mac flips town
I think I have a read on Dizzy town

3/8 townlock for me

I don't think there's all 3 wolves. I think 1-2.

Lucy I have a townish bend on rn.

I want to say Alison/Jay both town but I'm not 100% sure.

I'd say from that Nate/Finger needs my scrutiny most.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:07 am

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:52 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 pm So Lucy, who in your qualifier game do you think showed the sort of tunneling/aggression that you're expecting? Just want to get a baseline.

Seven, lag kinda, Shinichi at the end + spiderz throughout and Gorta. especially seven

Mk. I'd consider Seven and Lag more aggressive than average for Champs, and I'd guess that Champs is overall more aggressive than The Syndicate (I haven't spectated here before, that's just my impression).

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:10 am

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:02 am

Spoiler: show

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:00 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:55 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:54 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:50 pm Nate did you post a generic readlist?

I dunno, probably?

Do you know where it is? lucy and I are on a hunt for one, and she thought you'd posted it.

I think this was my biggest read post from yesterday:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:48 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:23 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:53 am JJJ def has better scum reads than me right now, & Nate's vote is lazy.



Of the 2, Nate is my pick for scum. Jay feels like he's trying to get towny activity out of me with his vote.



I have a sneaking suspicion that Maf are kinda letting town do their work for them currently, with a town voice in their crew.


So 1 Maf amongst the more vocal, with 1 -2 amongst the mid level contributors and 1-2 amongst the slanking players

Is this just a different way of saying the team is me / Sean / Marmot again?

Did you ever find the time to give me an update on the game/reads from your perspective? I asked you about it yesterday and I know you said you were still catching up.

I did not, no. There are still a few pages from yesterday during the (US) day that I haven't read, but I have more time today to catch up the rest of the way and stay current. I'll give you some thoughts, though, starting off with @JaggedJimmyJay's request for 4 town names. My top town would be JJJ, Mac, Boq, and Lucy. I know that has significant overlap with "most active". But JJJ and Boq both seem to be doing their own thing and solving independently while also making sure the overall thread state is moving in a positive direction. None of JJJ/Mac/Boq seem all that concerned with triangulating their reads so they match up (as one example, Boq's early town leans had overlap with Mac's early scum leans). Lucy I still just think is town from overall comfort level and tone. I think she'd be more self-conscious about not having reads as a wolf, especially when Mac was prodding her about it.

The tier below that (call it town leans) I'd put you (Sean) and Alison. You've trended up for me. I kind of vibed with Falcon's early read of you being "stiff", but that was mostly Day 0. I think Day 1 your pushes have made sense to me and you're poking at things in a solvey way. I had some initial concern that you were trying to keep Lucy in the POE, but you explained why Mac townleaning her stood out to you, so fine. Alison I'm townleaning at this point mostly from overlap between our town and scum piles, and she's been broadly engaging with players in the game rather than keeping a narrow focus. Do you still feel like her push on Rondo was just to cause disruption? It hasn't seemed to play out that way.

Some flavor of null on Creature/Dizzy/Ender/Fingersplints/Marmot. Of those it bothers me the most that I don't have a read on Ender. In our qualifier he projected a lot of solving towniness that I don't see here, but he was also a wolf in that game, so I'm not sure how to apply that meta. Creature I haven't gotten any specific pings from; seems like there's concern that their lack of activity is telling, but I have no meta there. So I think those are my two nulls that I want to sort in some fashion.

That leaves Falcon/Rondo/Wilgy as POE, which I really don't think is the exact team because that would be wild. I'm still fine with my Falcon vote, the only thing that makes me paranoid is how many people seem to agree with me. With both Falcon and Rondo they're in my POE because I get hints of agenda poking through the fluff. Wilgy's mostly here from, well, process of elimination, but I also didn't like his reaction to a towncore forming and asked him for more thoughts on that.

it was this without any explanations, just names

This one?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:06 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:36 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm I'm down.

Thank you.

One line of investigation that may be obvious but still doesn't tend to get the dedicated, systematic analysis it warrants is to individually assess the votes on the large mischop wagon of Day 1. We have a bunch of people who took part in that wagon who were all responsible for justifying their participation somehow. If we examine the full progression of each voter on their falcon reads we can try to determine with some reasonable degree of depth their sincerity.

I will likely do this myself, but two sets of eyes are better than one.

Okay so, thinking time.

Ender
Mac
Jay
Alison
Lucy
Nate
Fingersplints
Dizzy

I know I'm town
Mac flips town
I think I have a read on Dizzy town

3/8 townlock for me

I don't think there's all 3 wolves. I think 1-2.

Lucy I have a townish bend on rn.

I want to say Alison/Jay both town but I'm not 100% sure.

I'd say from that Nate/Finger needs my scrutiny most.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:57 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:15 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:14 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:30 am I'll be a little busy for the next 12 hours or so, my apologies. I have skimmed fingersplint's posts this page and been left with a generally good impression. Would like more elaboration on how Ender read Dizzy's entrance; which part of it was a towntell, etc.

If I elaborate it won't work anymore lol.

Keeping a read cryptic so you can use it in future games is dumb. You have already been extremely cagey this game; I would like you to please elaborate on the tell you used to read Dizzy.

Please wait 3-5 business days for a response.

I am sorely tempted to vote you.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:17 am My POE as of right now is Dizzy/Ender and then Nate. fingersplints read TBD. Creature has trended up this day phase and has an endorsement from Mac so I'm ok with him for now.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:16 am [VOTE: NateTheLesser] aubergine

Honestly don't feel like you care about the current gamestate, why's that?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:11 am I want to review fingersplints after lunch, I've had a few good feelings about her but those are way too nebulous to exempt her from scrutiny entirely.

Lucy/Seanzie/Marmot was a thing that happened. I'm not sure what to think of it; I wasn't a fan of Lucy kinda flailing in response to a relatively pedastrian inquisition of her thought process. Not enough of an anti-fan to exe her today over people like Dizzy or Ender, especially with Mac's legacy having her as locktown.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:18 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:16 am [VOTE: NateTheLesser] aubergine

Honestly don't feel like you care about the current gamestate, why's that?

I thought the same thing (see above).

What's your take on Creature?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:18 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:17 am My POE as of right now is Dizzy/Ender and then Nate. fingersplints read TBD. Creature has trended up this day phase and has an endorsement from Mac so I'm ok with him for now.

You care about Mac's endorsements but don't see any consideration of his claim he would tunnel Marmot?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:23 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:18 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:17 am My POE as of right now is Dizzy/Ender and then Nate. fingersplints read TBD. Creature has trended up this day phase and has an endorsement from Mac so I'm ok with him for now.

You care about Mac's endorsements but don't see any consideration of his claim he would tunnel Marmot?

It factors into my evaluation of Marmot. His legacy is not the be all and end all of my thought process, but that claim has led me to put Marmot lower than I would have if not for his legacy. Absent Mac's message, I would probably have Marmot as a townread, and now he's more like, floating just above the POE.

When it comes to Creature, Mac's views and mine trend in the same direction so it's a much easier call to make. I try to strike a balance between respecting his thoughts and having agency and ideas of my own.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:20 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:11 am I want to review fingersplints after lunch, I've had a few good feelings about her but those are way too nebulous to exempt her from scrutiny entirely.

Lucy/Seanzie/Marmot was a thing that happened. I'm not sure what to think of it; I wasn't a fan of Lucy kinda flailing in response to a relatively pedastrian inquisition of her thought process. Not enough of an anti-fan to exe her today over people like Dizzy or Ender, especially with Mac's legacy having her as locktown.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Marmot.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:25 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:23 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:18 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:17 am My POE as of right now is Dizzy/Ender and then Nate. fingersplints read TBD. Creature has trended up this day phase and has an endorsement from Mac so I'm ok with him for now.

You care about Mac's endorsements but don't see any consideration of his claim he would tunnel Marmot?

It factors into my evaluation of Marmot. His legacy is not the be all and end all of my thought process, but that claim has led me to put Marmot lower than I would have if not for his legacy. Absent Mac's message, I would probably have Marmot as a townread, and now he's more like, floating just above the POE.

When it comes to Creature, Mac's views and mine trend in the same direction so it's a much easier call to make. I try to strike a balance between respecting his thoughts and having agency and ideas of my own.

Was more a statement that you kept bringing it up to "add" to reads you were making but didn't see any comments about Marmot.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:22 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:18 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:16 am [VOTE: NateTheLesser] aubergine

Honestly don't feel like you care about the current gamestate, why's that?

I thought the same thing (see above).

What's your take on Creature?

I saw that lmao.

My take on Creature is that his whole "Find a different wagon than Falcon when he was second wagon" feels town, and this feels more like his lazy towngame.

Do you think he should be scumread for his D1?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:07 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:38 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to hear some personal opinions from you, rather than simply reiterating data from the game like a human Modbot. What reads do you feel most strongly about? What do you think of the JJJ/Seanzie argument?

Well, I think JJJ/Sean can be added to the "not w/w" chart, for starters. I think they were talking past each other in that argument. I still trust JJJ, partly because wolves in general want to keep the POE as open as possible and looking at interactions like he's doing is a way of narrowing it. None of it is "clearing", and JJJ isn't claiming that it is, it's just a way to help focus our attention. The other two that were in my top 4 yesterday were Boq and Lucy who I still feel mostly good about, though they've both dropped off a bit today so there hasn't been as much to go on. I'm more interested in the middle Falcon voters today (Fingersplints/Creature/Dizzy/Ender), less interested in the late voters (you and Lucy jumped on near EOD when I wouldn't expect wolves to pile on a runaway town flip). I was also feeling good about Marmot going into today, mainly because I thought their reasoning for sussing Ender near EOD was a good thread to pull, and game state wise I wouldn't expect a wolf to start a late wagon when they could just coast to the misyeet that was already in progress. So the sus going their way today has me wondering if I'm missing something.

How would you rank finger/creature/dizzy/ender in order of suspicion right now, with brief reasons if possible?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:56 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:54 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:53 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:53 pm What is your goal in this game Ender?

What is your point in asking this quesiton, Marmot?

I'm trying to sort out your motives because I don't understand them, and I hope that it'll help me read you better.

I want to win, like anyone else.

I felt D1 was weird in a wolfy way and I'm trying to work out why.

I expressed that on D1 and everyone laughed.

I still felt that on N1.

Went into D2 asking why I felt that, Alison/Lucy/Jay probably has 1 wolf, probably not more but I think one.

Building my little group of townies and trying to sort wolf motivations.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:42 am They're in about that order, from most suspicion to least. What I'm looking for in the Falcon votes is people who helped it along but in such a way that they wouldn't look responsible, and both Finger and Creature fit that. Finger was using Mac's god read as cover but also said she had (unspecified) concerns of her own there. And I think the "but I've been wrong about him before" framing gives her a way to backtrack if things go a different direction. I need to look back at Creature's actual reasoning, but their vote(s) were also in the context of being self pres, so the purpose wasn't only to push Falcon. Dizzy I'm null on, I hope they have more time as the game goes on. They're disconnected but their votes haven't just been vanity wagons. Ender I would have put as more sus than Dizzy until this:

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:15 am I think one thing that bothers me about Nate is that it doesn't feel like he has any reads he's passionate about. I don't know if this is just a playstyle thing but it's what drove me to quiz him about his reads in more detail. I'm uncomfortable by the fact that his stance seems to be repeating the most uncontroversial/popular reads and then chilling and not making a massive effort to push them. I could see this coming from a townie who feels we've got the game in the bag, and I've been in that position a couple of times myself, but those were when I had big confidence in my reads and the wolves were getting crushed. This gamestate started off with a misexe and then some pretty tense/controversial interactions between players, so it doesn't feel wholly appropriate for Nate to just be sitting back and going "yep, I guess we'll just auto the guys in the middle of falcon's wagon".

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:35 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:28 am Creature has several strings of posts next to each other containing game related stuff. I am still peeved by him ignoring my question, but I have learned the hard way that someone ignoring you doesn't make them scum.

I lean him town because of the post strings (on phone rn so can't quote them).

I had early misgivings on Falcon due to his change of tone from the quali, but I decided to not push there but read what else he'd produce, since it is a weak thing to scum read someone for. The fact that Falcon got pushed by a few peeps made me think that Falcon could be a set-up for D1 misyeet but I haven't really felt any townie vibes from Falcon so..

Marmot is the player has the most scum equity. He isn't taking part of much discussion, is basically just there trying to stay relevant. However now when I know that he has been away because of allergies, it does feel like my conclusion is made on wrong premises. Again, I am comparing qualis, but I wolf read Marmot that game and he was town. He also contributed a lot to discussion. Now I have felt some of Marmot's posts surface townie but lacking in content. Another thing is Marmot complaining about us posting a lot, when he was a high poster in his quali.

Those are my takes

To address Boq's suspicion of me from Day 1.

I'd intended to be active earlier, but wasn't in the space to do so as I've said. I think it's reasonable to expect more from me, and now that I've delivered I expect a revised read from you at some point.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:16 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:42 am They're in about that order, from most suspicion to least. What I'm looking for in the Falcon votes is people who helped it along but in such a way that they wouldn't look responsible, and both Finger and Creature fit that. Finger was using Mac's god read as cover but also said she had (unspecified) concerns of her own there. And I think the "but I've been wrong about him before" framing gives her a way to backtrack if things go a different direction. I need to look back at Creature's actual reasoning, but their vote(s) were also in the context of being self pres, so the purpose wasn't only to push Falcon. Dizzy I'm null on, I hope they have more time as the game goes on. They're disconnected but their votes haven't just been vanity wagons. Ender I would have put as more sus than Dizzy until this:

Do you have any thoughts on the way Dizzy has played D2? Why is it significant or townie that Dizzy's posts aren't just on vanity wagons, since disconnected players are likely to just vote on the popular wagons in general? And, what about that post of Ender's struck you as particularly authentic, such that you got the impression of the mask slipping when you read it?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:55 am The only point of hesitation for me is the fact that she looked weirdly uninformed about the Boquise thing. But I don't think it's clearing - maybe scum chat is dead, maybe she checks scum chat as infrequently as she checks the main thread (which would make sense if she's busy IRL), maybe she's just savvy enough to fake a derp clear. She did fool us all in Fargo.

It's not enough to make me pull back from voting her.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:26 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:23 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:21 pm [VOTE: lucy] aubergine

if I was mafia would I be clumsy enough to make that read when I didn't have to?

I wouldn't call it impossible, but I also unfortunately don't know the answer to that question because I don't know you.

You probably wouldn't, but I've seen extremely skilled players make silly mistakes before so