The Syndicate

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:05 pm Though, I suppose being wrong is game throwing, just not intentionally. Many players are currently game throwing.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:55 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:28 pm NAA might have gamethrown in the past, but that's not really relevant if someone else is gamethrowing now, just because NAA is the one bringing it up.

I mean, there's not much point in engaging LimeCoke seriously on this topic, the game he's referring to (philosophy) I only voted mafia at EOD. And only pushed mafia at EOD. I mean, you know because you were in that game and my Poe was almost entirely correct. Lime coke is just trolling himself over that game where I couldn't hit a vigi shot. Being wrong is game throwing.

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:04 pm @Marmot
Don’t you think TSP could get away with that?
I think he could tbh and if you are indeed actually wolf that omega bussed you can probably tell him about it and let him know I thought of it for him.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:04 pm @Marmot
Don’t you think TSP could get away with that?
I think he could tbh and if you are indeed actually wolf that omega bussed you can probably tell him about it and let him know I thought of it for him.

Get away with what?

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:04 pm @Marmot
Don’t you think TSP could get away with that?
I think he could tbh and if you are indeed actually wolf that omega bussed you can probably tell him about it and let him know I thought of it for him.

Get away with what?

Well Marmot you remember what I said about TSP don’t you?
You tell me buddy.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:00 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:56 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:52 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:49 pm 4 copies are Maf, which means there are no duplicate Maf roles...Town has a copy for each Maf role

It says there are 18 copies total, not 9, so I think that means there technically can be 2 of the same role on the mafia team.

Like it doesn't explicitly say that the mafia can't have 2 unique roles, though it can be inferred. I'm just not sure which is correct.

OK, it's a possibility...tho I can't say I've ever played a game where Maf have duplicate power roles...have you? Especially with only 4

I think there's reason to believe that it is randomized such that mafia can have two copies. Otherwise, the Red Engineer would be confirmed town right now because sabie was the Blue Engineer. The duality of it would be too pro-town I think.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:55 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:28 pm NAA might have gamethrown in the past, but that's not really relevant if someone else is gamethrowing now, just because NAA is the one bringing it up.

I mean, there's not much point in engaging LimeCoke seriously on this topic, the game he's referring to (philosophy) I only voted mafia at EOD. And only pushed mafia at EOD. I mean, you know because you were in that game and my Poe was almost entirely correct. Lime coke is just trolling himself over that game where I couldn't hit a vigi shot. Being wrong is game throwing.

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Also, I didn't scum read you actually, I just wanted you to exit your scum range because you're one dimensional

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:09 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

This isn't universally accepted

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:55 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:28 pm NAA might have gamethrown in the past, but that's not really relevant if someone else is gamethrowing now, just because NAA is the one bringing it up.

I mean, there's not much point in engaging LimeCoke seriously on this topic, the game he's referring to (philosophy) I only voted mafia at EOD. And only pushed mafia at EOD. I mean, you know because you were in that game and my Poe was almost entirely correct. Lime coke is just trolling himself over that game where I couldn't hit a vigi shot. Being wrong is game throwing.

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Also, I didn't scum read you actually, I just wanted you to exit your scum range because you're one dimensional

I literally just won a game as scum? How is that one dimensional?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:13 pm Even a broken clock is right sometimes

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:52 pm “ 4 of those copies are part of the mafia faction, the other 14 are town.”
This doesn’t indicate anything.

@Dragon D. Luffy
Can for example 2 Spy’s possibly both role mafia.
Like can mafia both have the role of 2.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:13 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:55 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:28 pm NAA might have gamethrown in the past, but that's not really relevant if someone else is gamethrowing now, just because NAA is the one bringing it up.

I mean, there's not much point in engaging LimeCoke seriously on this topic, the game he's referring to (philosophy) I only voted mafia at EOD. And only pushed mafia at EOD. I mean, you know because you were in that game and my Poe was almost entirely correct. Lime coke is just trolling himself over that game where I couldn't hit a vigi shot. Being wrong is game throwing.

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Also, I didn't scum read you actually, I just wanted you to exit your scum range because you're one dimensional

I literally just won a game as scum? How is that one dimensional?

Yeah, people probably tiptoed around your blow up as town routine.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:16 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:13 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:55 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:28 pm NAA might have gamethrown in the past, but that's not really relevant if someone else is gamethrowing now, just because NAA is the one bringing it up.

I mean, there's not much point in engaging LimeCoke seriously on this topic, the game he's referring to (philosophy) I only voted mafia at EOD. And only pushed mafia at EOD. I mean, you know because you were in that game and my Poe was almost entirely correct. Lime coke is just trolling himself over that game where I couldn't hit a vigi shot. Being wrong is game throwing.

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Also, I didn't scum read you actually, I just wanted you to exit your scum range because you're one dimensional

I literally just won a game as scum? How is that one dimensional?

Yeah, people probably tiptoed around your blow up as town routine.

There's literally other several ways to read me and get my alignment, it's not really that hard.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:15 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:52 pm “ 4 of those copies are part of the mafia faction, the other 14 are town.”
This doesn’t indicate anything.

@Dragon D. Luffy
Can for example 2 Spy’s possibly both role mafia.
Like can mafia both have the role of 2.

Yes.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:18 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:16 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:13 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:55 pm

I mean, there's not much point in engaging LimeCoke seriously on this topic, the game he's referring to (philosophy) I only voted mafia at EOD. And only pushed mafia at EOD. I mean, you know because you were in that game and my Poe was almost entirely correct. Lime coke is just trolling himself over that game where I couldn't hit a vigi shot. Being wrong is game throwing.

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Also, I didn't scum read you actually, I just wanted you to exit your scum range because you're one dimensional

I literally just won a game as scum? How is that one dimensional?

Yeah, people probably tiptoed around your blow up as town routine.

There's literally other several ways to read me and get my alignment, it's not really that hard.

I mean, that's kind of my point.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:15 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:52 pm “ 4 of those copies are part of the mafia faction, the other 14 are town.”
This doesn’t indicate anything.

@Dragon D. Luffy
Can for example 2 Spy’s possibly both role mafia.
Like can mafia both have the role of 2.

Yes.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:19 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:18 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:16 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:13 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm

You've thrown in several other games as well. I'm not the only one saying this. Quit being delusional.

Also, I didn't scum read you actually, I just wanted you to exit your scum range because you're one dimensional

I literally just won a game as scum? How is that one dimensional?

Yeah, people probably tiptoed around your blow up as town routine.

There's literally other several ways to read me and get my alignment, it's not really that hard.

I mean, that's kind of my point.

That's not at all your point.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:19 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:15 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:52 pm “ 4 of those copies are part of the mafia faction, the other 14 are town.”
This doesn’t indicate anything.

@Dragon D. Luffy
Can for example 2 Spy’s possibly both role mafia.
Like can mafia both have the role of 2.

Yes.

Well, will ya look at that

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

Let’s say I play a game with Jaland.
(You don’t know who that is but hang with me here.)
Let’s say I got 1-Shot Vigilante
And I think his hammer on mafia EoD1 and his cop claim to get mafia yeeted day 2 was fake (true story btw lol.)

Basically think Jaland is a deep wolf (which he was lol.)
If I shot Jaland while he’s in that position is that considered game throwing?

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:15 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:52 pm “ 4 of those copies are part of the mafia faction, the other 14 are town.”
This doesn’t indicate anything.

@Dragon D. Luffy
Can for example 2 Spy’s possibly both role mafia.
Like can mafia both have the role of 2.

Yes.

@falcon45ca

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

Let’s say I play a game with Jaland.
(You don’t know who that is but hang with me here.)
Let’s say I got 1-Shot Vigilante
And I think his hammer on mafia EoD1 and his cop claim to get mafia yeeted day 2 was fake (true story btw lol.)

Basically think Jaland is a deep wolf (which he was lol.)
If I shot Jaland while he’s in that position is that considered game throwing?

That's a hero shot, yeah. It's adjacent to game-throwing, but I agree with NAA, it only really counts as throwing if you're wrong.

I disagree with this strategy in general though. Not because I'm the one who red-checked sabie, but because doing such actively ignores thread evidence that would suggest that the person is more likely to be town, in favor of conspiracy-theorizing/tinfoiling.

There are cases where it's probably fine to shoot said player:

- If there is a consensus among the other players that they might be scum regardless of their claim
- If the gamestate is awful and we're continuing to chop town after town
- probably some other obscure situations

Sure I could be mafia, but I've provided a claim that supports that I might be town, and I would assert that more often than not, truthful hard-claims come from town (there's more town players, and it's always easier to tell the truth)

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

Let’s say I play a game with Jaland.
(You don’t know who that is but hang with me here.)
Let’s say I got 1-Shot Vigilante
And I think his hammer on mafia EoD1 and his cop claim to get mafia yeeted day 2 was fake (true story btw lol.)

Basically think Jaland is a deep wolf (which he was lol.)
If I shot Jaland while he’s in that position is that considered game throwing?

That's a hero shot, yeah. It's adjacent to game-throwing, but I agree with NAA, it only really counts as throwing if you're wrong.

I disagree with this strategy in general though. Not because I'm the one who red-checked sabie, but because doing such actively ignores thread evidence that would suggest that the person is more likely to be town, in favor of conspiracy-theorizing/tinfoiling.

There are cases where it's probably fine to shoot said player:

- If there is a consensus among the other players that they might be scum regardless of their claim
- If the gamestate is awful and we're continuing to chop town after town
- probably some other obscure situations

Sure I could be mafia, but I've provided a claim that supports that I might be town, and I would assert that more often than not, truthful hard-claims come from town (there's more town players, and it's always easier to tell the truth)

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 pm We can stop now

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:25 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 pm We can stop now

Yeah NAA and Lime Coke are never both mafia and are both very likely town.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:24 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:10 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:08 pm Game-throwing has to have some intentionality imo.

That said, someboday having a read you disagree with or scumreading you when you're town is not game-throwing. That's just how mafia be sometimes.

Let’s say I play a game with Jaland.
(You don’t know who that is but hang with me here.)
Let’s say I got 1-Shot Vigilante
And I think his hammer on mafia EoD1 and his cop claim to get mafia yeeted day 2 was fake (true story btw lol.)

Basically think Jaland is a deep wolf (which he was lol.)
If I shot Jaland while he’s in that position is that considered game throwing?

That's a hero shot, yeah. It's adjacent to game-throwing, but I agree with NAA, it only really counts as throwing if you're wrong.

I disagree with this strategy in general though. Not because I'm the one who red-checked sabie, but because doing such actively ignores thread evidence that would suggest that the person is more likely to be town, in favor of conspiracy-theorizing/tinfoiling.

There are cases where it's probably fine to shoot said player:

- If there is a consensus among the other players that they might be scum regardless of their claim
- If the gamestate is awful and we're continuing to chop town after town
- probably some other obscure situations

Sure I could be mafia, but I've provided a claim that supports that I might be town, and I would assert that more often than not, truthful hard-claims come from town (there's more town players, and it's always easier to tell the truth)

If hero shots / shots that go against concensus are "game throwing", then hosts shouldn't put Vigs in the set up because people don't actually want other players to have that much influence over the game, and often people are pressured into doing what other people agreed on rather than playing the game themselves.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:24 pm If hero shots / shots that go against concensus are "game throwing", then hosts shouldn't put Vigs in the set up because people don't actually want other players to have that much influence over the game, and often people are pressured into doing what other people agreed on rather than playing the game themselves.

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:27 pm Exactly when I have vigilante (or at least a normal one) I don’t go by what another person says I don’t get manipulated the only allowed to manipulate me is myself so that’s why I make my own decisions under my own discretion.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:29 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:24 pm If hero shots / shots that go against concensus are "game throwing", then hosts shouldn't put Vigs in the set up because people don't actually want other players to have that much influence over the game, and often people are pressured into doing what other people agreed on rather than playing the game themselves.

You do you, I just think that taking a vig shot against a tinfoil scumread that everyone else thinks is town is more often than not a bad play.

I'm probably being a little egregious in my categorization. It's probably not game-throwing if you think it's the right call. Personally, I think that factoring other players' inputs in is important too.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:45 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:41 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:38 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:31 pm So my biggest issue right now is I don't have any super solid mafia reads.

I'm back and forth on Gullio, his low tunneling on me is a bit scummy and he's not doing much content wise just volume also there's this weird thing with naa which doesn't seem V/V unless I"m missing something? But, he was also pushing sabie for awhile if i recall correctly and Last phase I pegged him as tunneling towny which seems more right.

I think the LC read on jack has some merit, but with the amount of blocks, protects, eCt out there it isn't solid.

I think most likely mafia are laying low, maybe we've got one who voted to save sabie, but doubt it's more than that, and probably one on her wagon? I need to go backk and look at that lay out.

Also beginning to suspect Falcon given his under the radar playstyle and D1 flipflopping vote then avoidance of wagons.

So im townie because i tunneled Sabie but not for low tunneling you? So i cant be scum for hellbussing Sabie for example?

Well I know i'm civ and your reasoning for tunneling on me is god awful. Which imo is usually something mafia are more prone to do D0/1 since it lets them latch onto something, tunnel, do less gameplay wise, and then when someone misflips it's a meh.

So in theory you could be scum for bussing sabie, but given that it was Day 1, Sabie wasn't outted at that point, and there are only four mafia members hard bussins seems a bit less likely. That isn't to say no mafia members voted for her D1, but voting vs hard pushing is very different.

So I guess you'd be a slight town read? but probably my least confident one.

Im gonna pretend i dont scum read you to engage with you. Boom! That read is gone, the tunnel is vanished.

Sig, why do you think Sabie chose to chop Seanzie instead of chopping Gavial and you who were available wagons at the time?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:46 pm Sabie choosing to jump onto Seanzie instead of staying on Gavial now makes sense if Gavial is scum.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:29 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:24 pm If hero shots / shots that go against concensus are "game throwing", then hosts shouldn't put Vigs in the set up because people don't actually want other players to have that much influence over the game, and often people are pressured into doing what other people agreed on rather than playing the game themselves.

You do you, I just think that taking a vig shot against a tinfoil scumread that everyone else thinks is town is more often than not a bad play.

I'm probably being a little egregious in my categorization. It's probably not game-throwing if you think it's the right call. Personally, I think that factoring other players' inputs in is important too.