Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[Gavial]

No but for real, I don’t buy it that all 4 of them are town.
I think 1 is scum Nut slipped into their list.

You have arrived at the conversation Mac and I had a few minutes ago.

Also go review nutella’s responses to me at the end of Day 1 if you are beginning to entertain suspicion against me.

Ok but it shouldn’t fuckin clear them and make you have the same top town as a flipped fuckin scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay, what do you think of me right now?

Almost nothing, with no offense intended. You've blended. You're a name I will certainly address in a review.

[Gavial]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Vote Scum!

[Sloonei]

No but for real, I don’t buy it that all 4 of them are town.
I think 1 is scum Nut slipped into their list.

You have arrived at the conversation Mac and I had a few minutes ago.

Also go review nutella’s responses to me at the end of Day 1 if you are beginning to entertain suspicion against me.

Ok but it shouldn’t fuckin clear them and make you have the same top town as a flipped fuckin scum.

My list was not a comprehensive view of the game. It was based purely on my analysis of nutella’s posts.
I have no firm read on Sonny outside of that exercise.

[Sloonei]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Vote Scum!

What are your thoughts on Belzy?

[Gavial]

No but for real, I don’t buy it that all 4 of them are town.
I think 1 is scum Nut slipped into their list.

You have arrived at the conversation Mac and I had a few minutes ago.

Also go review nutella’s responses to me at the end of Day 1 if you are beginning to entertain suspicion against me.

Ok but it shouldn’t fuckin clear them and make you have the same top town as a flipped fuckin scum.

My list was not a comprehensive view of the game. It was based purely on my analysis of nutella’s posts.
I have no firm read on Sonny outside of that exercise.

Ok what’s your firm read on Guillo?
Also, did you based those results on actual interactions and mentions or Nut’s fuckin readslist?

[Gavial]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Vote Scum!

What are your thoughts on Belzy?

Null.
But Prob Not Scum.

[Gavial]

There’s just better votes.
Like Hawk.
Who needs to answer my question!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If it was still 2016 and I was the snap voting type I'd probably have already voted Belzy. But I'm an old sage now who takes his time.

[Gavial]

If it was still 2016 and I was the snap voting type I'd probably have already voted Belzy. But I'm an old sage now who takes his time.

What do you find wolfy about them?

[Seanzie]

As of Page 25, Nutella is just confused about everything brought up about Kito (which to be fair, Kito had made like two posts, and very few people talked about Kito, but Nutella "... what?"ed in two different directions with Kito (once for someone saying something good about Kito and once for someone saying something bad).

Also, Kito @'ed me at some point later (I haven't gotten there yet), and I made a joke (idk if he knew it was a joke, but it should have dawned on him eventually), but Kito never commented on it, which made me sad. Also I think he would have been more likely to have eventually commented if town.

Not a strong read, but as strong of a read on Kito I've had from D1 stuff.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm doing the nutella/Owner review now, and just want to posit a possibility while folks are here to discuss it. Sloonei and Mac talked about it a bit a page or two ago I think.

nutella personalized her case against lost monkey and pushed it -- with that push ramped up in response to my own suspicion of monkey. Had monkey died and flipped green, I suspect I'd have gotten the bulk of the blame over nutella just because of my decibel level.

nutella didn't personalize her case against Owner in the same way, but she did springboard it directly from Alison's gripes. In that way I think there is a parallel -- if Owner dies and flips green, I suspect Alison gets the bulk of the blame over nutella because of her decibel level.

A view forming in my head is this: nutella chose monkey as her punching bag mischop of Day 1. Owner later became another viable possibility, and one who was similarly easy to gripe with to monkey -- this would suggest nutella opportunism.

I'm here to chop monkey and here's why... or okay sure Owner is cool too great!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If it was still 2016 and I was the snap voting type I'd probably have already voted Belzy. But I'm an old sage now who takes his time.

What do you find wolfy about them?

click here

[Sonny]

Scha-weet!

Read Nutella's interactions overnight and this is what I take from it (well all but the last page where she was just open wolfing imo). Haven't caught up on today yet so it's unevolved.

Actvscenei: Says first post is wolfy. Gave awk vibes. Had TMI on Tang. Changed to Act may just be like this. Says voted Act for backtracking on Tang. Backs off Act - Mentions/interacts with her a bit but is kinda meh overall

Guillotine: Feels like Guillo pushed her while she walked it back - Strong town reads him, says he isn't understanding/reading her posts right when challenged - probably okay

Garden Gnome: Said her entry sounded fine, nothing in it

Kito: Calls town for his first post what even the what. Why is Kito opportunisitc about Act (to Mac), jumped on someone calling Kito scum. Seems to defend Kito for whatever that means - possibly teamed (need to review)

lost monkey: Had lots to say about him, he called her out early and she encourages people to look at him via shading, a lot - Lock!Town

hawkataine: 1 interaction to her intro post - meh

Owner of a Lonely Heart: Owner calls her scum for a weird word, she seems to push owner forward although votes LoMo, keeps her name out there though - Probably town

Belzy: No interactions

Seanzie: No interactions

bad bunny: No interactions

Allcrab: No interactions

Gavial: Not much from Nutella's side, Gavial seems to push her though - says "save Owner vote Nut" like - probably town

JaggedJimmyJay: A lot of interaction, calls strong town seems to be responding to Jay more than anything else

Sloonei: Timing of Sloonei vote probably means little, not much else

Alison: Didn't like Alison having her in her PoE, vibed as real annoyance - probably town

Tangrowth: A decent amount of OT with Tang. Says "Tangy's just town" early, seems likely unteamed, keeps town read down. Sheeps Tang's reads exactly even though they didn't align with what she was saying. If teamed would have drawn it out - Townie

MacDougall: Fobs Mac off a lot and doesn't give serious answers, placating, says he's seeking reactions when calling her scum, timing of his vote/toying with her is good - Townie

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME: Votes Nook, not a lot there, liked his vote tho - Probably townie

MartinGG99: Calls Martin town because "I guess sheeping Alison", says the same thing again later, low effort here - dunno

Made: Minimal interaction, asks for reads, wants their take on LoMo and Owner. Counterwagon tho so meh

Long Con: No interactions

Dana: Wolf wouldn't say "nervous", soft backs off Act to Dana, minimal - dunno

[Seanzie]

As of Page 25, Nutella is just confused about everything brought up about Kito (which to be fair, Kito had made like two posts, and very few people talked about Kito, but Nutella "... what?"ed in two different directions with Kito (once for someone saying something good about Kito and once for someone saying something bad).

Also, Kito @'ed me at some point later (I haven't gotten there yet), and I made a joke (idk if he knew it was a joke, but it should have dawned on him eventually), but Kito never commented on it, which made me sad. Also I think he would have been more likely to have eventually commented if town.

Not a strong read, but as strong of a read on Kito I've had from D1 stuff.

Oh, I just got to the post, Kito didn't @ me, he just quoted me. Either way I got a little red bubble.

[Guillotine]

nutella continues talking to people

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: lost monkey] aubergine

you seem to be in neutral commentary mode, let's see some reads

Beep boop vote for lost monkey. Meh. This could very easily be a teammate prod. It could just as easily be an easy observation to direct toward a low key civilian.

Spoiler: show

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Juicy. A reads list. Sonny gets places in the "Strong Town" pile after appearing only once previously in this ISO, when nutella simply agreed with someone else's town read on them. I am inclined to say that's a good look for Sonny: sometimes mafia members will effortlessly adopt firm town reads on town players that are not suspected by anyone because there's no sense in pushing on them. I don't feel like nutella would place her teammate on such a high pedestal out of the blue like this.

Intriguing town leans: Gnome, Martin, Dana, Hawk, Act. Both Hawk and Act get slight quibbles, which is something I could see nutella attaching to a teammate. Martin also gets a caveat about sheeping Alison, but that's not as much of a concern. If Alison is town and nutella has assigned town-read status to her, she is almost forced to also assign a town-read to Martin.
Dana and Mac both came up a little bit earlier on in this ISO but with no firm conclusions. I have no immediate concerns about them here. I would not be surprised if there is at least one teammate in nutella's "town leans" pile.
Gavial, nanook, and Long Con all get suspicion hurled at them for no stated reason. Noted. I don't remember any notable mentions of or interactions with LC prior to this.

Spoiler: show

I think Act's posting has improved in recent times. I'm willing to give her some space and see how she uses it.

I liked her dismissive response to you asking for a read list tbh

Noting that nutella has now substantiated a town read on Act. Coolio.

Spoiler: show

Alison what do you think about lost monkey?

Prompts Alison to talk about lost monkey. Inclined to call that a good look for our monkey friend.

Spoiler: show

Disney World/Disney Cruises. And you?

Follow up, why did you choose to ask this particular question?

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

1. My town reads.
2. Win with town.

Finding someone genuine?


Unrelated, screw nested quotes. Really.

yeah lol

Not really the only reason no I just sort of generally toneread you as wolfy/found your approach disingenuous, starting with the dana read (bc again I'm a defender of hedginess and didn't see it your way). But as you've posted more it seems like that's just your style and you are poking in various places and have solvey intentions. I could move off you but don't know where

You could just unvote? There is no compulsion that a person needs to be voted. This I could move off you but don't know where stuff I don't buy it and seems fake. Leaning scum here.

Allison like an evolved form of alana lol.

Hello, I'm Tangy and this is my first mafia game.

Hi Tangy. This may be one of my final mafia games I play. I have been considering retirement. Not, to rain on the date though, I just feel as though I can't mod how I want to mod anymore, which is my main appeal to the game in the recent years.

Owner you should try modding games here owner. Some of the setup i have seen here are right up your alley.

What do you want me to expand?

If I didn't play a game before this one, I would been the same way as act and you on dana.

It'd be super to know what made you feel this way, and what playing a game before this one did to change your perspective.

The playstyles are mainly the reason if I have to say. Certain things which you guys see as townie are not seen as townie thing over there. Now lets take act what you guys saw stilted and acting scummie from act we consider as something normal from her. This is her playstyle this is how she plays regardless of alignment. Similarly to what you felt with gnome. I felt the same way when I saw syn, mac play. Dana coming in and saying i am nervous and stuff if i didnt see others play last game even i would have felt it was scummie.

Like my impression is most of LM's posts are comments on things that don't actually have bearing on the game itself, there's a couple like the discussion of act's style that could come close to giving a read but avoid actually doing so. There's a hint of a scumread on me, and some interaction with Jay and that's it. I feel like they're hesitant to actually get into the meat of the game.

Okay. By far the most substantial post in the first 24 hours of the game from nutella is a mini-case against lost monkey. That is a good look. This feels much more like "I have identified my Day 1 target and will begin pushing them here" rather than "I better start shading my partner."

Spoiler: show

I thought Owner was sort of off-topic/not into the game yet in a more similar way to Gnome (which I found townier than LM's borderline approach)

By contrast, here's a not-good look for Owner. And maybe a good look for Gnome? Owner starts to receive some heat, and nutella comes to her defense promptly, and cites another player (Gnome) whose style Owner is reminiscent of. It's possible that Gnome is town and nutella chose this particular association (Owner -> Gnome) so that the towny goodness of Gnome could be transmitted to Owner in turn. The unprompted dig at lost monkey is also another good look for them, and gives this post an air of slight anxiety: nutella wants attention on monkey and off of Owner.

Spoiler: show

......kito? wat why

This is in response to Guillo placing Kito in their list of Top 3 town reads. It's an easy question to ask. It might be easier if Kito really is town. But it's still easy even if Kito is nutella's partner. Meh.

Spoiler: show

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

Unless lost monkey specifically requested to be bussed Day 1, this is too aggressive to be distancing. I don't think that is likely.

Spoiler: show

Meh talk to me about belzy i dont have a good handle there

After several posts going back and forth with Guillo (town), nutella asks for some talk about Belzy. This is Belzy's first appearance in nutella's ISO. Neat.

Spoiler: show

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

Does this read from Owner exist if they are partners? It was a bit goofy from the beginning. I don't know Owner well enough to say whether or not she would produce this read on her teammate. Nutella's response is nothing.

Spoiler: show

How does one catch Alison as scum anyway? This is not a rhetorical question.

I don't know. I think you need to explain her playstyle or look for patterns in her playstyle over time.

Huh

Why does this post exist

Why does this post exist?

Spoiler: show

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

lalala dadv isnt real it cant hurt me

Owner objects to the monkey wagon, and nutella playfully shoots her objection down. Meh. I can go either way on this.

Spoiler: show

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

mmmm spicy

At the very least, nutella is no longer uncomfortable with people talking about Owner. I still don't know if anything here suggests that they are not compatible though.
The way nutella is handling Alison looks very good for her.

Spoiler: show

Like mafia mac or nook could be pushing me because I'm not literally the top poster and they think they can look good for not just admitting I'm obv town already

But I'm not afraid of mac staying on me for more than like five minutes regardless of his alignment

I think nanook is just town here. I am more iffy on Mac, but this second post feels like it's meant to be a playful taunt to disarm Mac slightly. That would be a good indicator for him.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

I have deemed this response to be Fake. Nutella is concerned. She is concerned because all three of these people are town and their votes are Legit.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

[VOTE: Tangy] aubergine Same reasons as voting for Sloonei...it's a tell. This questionnaire feels more agenda based than Sloonei's did. It feels like you are really looking to see where everyone is at. It's like you are specifically fishing for something. There is a motive behind this.

It kind of looks like you are trying to be on good graces, but to me it feels like you are searching for reasons to keep or not keep someone in the game. It is troublesome.

hmm

going for the big fish here eh

Not feisty enough.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

Why do the people voting you matter here?

for mac see my last post, for nanook and guillo basically I always expect us to suspect each other

It's always town in sonnydelphia.

Spoiler: show

[/color]

I'm like not caught up most games. I don't get why people keep calling it that way when it happens like every game. It's like no one remembers this...though we haven't really played together lately so I guess that's it.

smh

got anything to say about nutellagate?

What's a nutellagate? Is is a gate made of nutella? I feel that's too on the nose to be it. They are there. I don't recall their playstyle. I feel like I should know more about their music tastes from all the walrus' we've been in together.

They are an elephant in this room, but I don't feel like they are the loudest or most memorable one here.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

say something game related or die

Owner's response to the prompt for a comment about nutella looks super uncomfortable. Nutella responds by prodding her to say something more substantive. That could easily be A Teammate prodding Another to lean into the distancing act, rather than avoiding it. In fact, I might be inclined to say that it is. If Owner is town, she is at least passively resisting the wagon on nutella. Why does Mafia Nutella respond to that by calling Town Owner out like this?

Spoiler: show

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Spoiler: show

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Both Jay and Mac are town here. Jay read super 100% confident, though I was already there before. But since this is easy to substantiate, I'll articulate it here in case anyone is still on the fence and somehow reading all of this: nutella is very much caught off guard by Jay digging this list up and waving it in front of her to highlight the contradictory nature of her handling of Mac at the present compared to a few hours earlier. Jay has caught nutella in an inconsistency. Nutella is flustered. They are never teammates in this exchange.

Spoiler: show

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Please tell me about Gnome.

eh, I want more from her but her entry sounded more comfortable than not on a tonal level from what I know of her, even if she didn't really get into the game at all.

I have no clear read on Gnome here, but it exists. She was specifically prompted to justify a town-read on Gnome, and I have previously felt like that town-read looked good for Gnome, as a "too town to be suspected, so let's just move on" slot.

Spoiler: show

Not gonna lie, owner’s reads based on personality traits, anti-immigration sentiment and other non game related subjects is starting to ping me hard

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Nutella is leaning more heavily into the Owner suspicion now, which could be a sign that they are not teammates. But the progression up to now has looked like potential distancing to me, and Owner's behavior in some of the posts nutella has criticized would be impossible not to criticize, tbh. nutella would look worse if she had produced a town-read on Owner here.

Spoiler: show

Owner has a unique way of looking at games, and it is typical of her to make reads on the basis of things most people would not. At face value that's fine.

What's problematic to me is that it doesn't seem to be leading somewhere yet, with the exception of some reads that I just don't think are appropriate (e.g. Tangy mafia for a questionnaire).

I thought the tangy one was actually one of the more intriguing ones, I want more from her on that

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Pretend they're onion soup reads

Its just her thing, and as we say

Everything is game related

Okay but she said upgaymers is a filler word so I can't take anything she says seriously

These two posts back-to-back gave me mild whiplash. "Owner's read on Tangy is intriguing, actually." 4 minutes elapse. "I can't take anything Owner says seriously."
At the very least, this is a bogus read on Owner. But we kind of already knew that.

Spoiler: show

love that like a third of the players aren't doing anything d1

i forgot LC was even in this game

nutella had previously listed LC as one of her three strongest suspects. If they are partners, I feel like she does not so easily forget Distancing Plan #1 ("call him a suspect") before initiating Distancing Plan #2 ("pretend to forget he exists"). Tentative good look for LC.

The rest of nutella's posts came in a flurry at the end of the phase when she had All The Votes, or during twilight. I'll dig into those separately if I feel like it, but for now I'm leaving this as it is.

Loose tier rankings based purely on this ISO, tiers not internally ranked:

Very Town
Jay
Guillotine
Tangy
Sonny

Largely Town
Mac
Gavial
Alison
Nanook
lost monkey
Gnome

A Little Town
Martin
Long Con
Dana

Suspect or Intriguing
Actvscenei
Owner

Not Enough To Form A Clear Read
Allcrab
bad bunny
Belzy
hawkataine
Kito
Made*
Seanzie

*Made was the counterwagon to nutella at the end of the day, and I have not reviewed her posts from that time yet.

[/spoiler]

IDK what Guill is thinking but like.....
The top town is the EXACT SAME as Nut’s.

[Guillotine]

RIP Spoiler tagging

[Sonny]

Quality trolling from nutella, but it might have cleared people. I don't care about wifom. Long Con town from that, anyone?

Town from what?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just gonna put these here for y'all to chew on.

Nutella's first post pinged me a little...not sure if I have really heard upgaymers? in a sentence before..it could be nai, it's just a bit out there for me which...on this first date I expect there is more not less of it to come (almost spelled that wrong) I think I need to get out more

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

[Sonny]

Oh nevermind, you posted just after. Depends on the timing, haven't reviewed the wagon yet.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quality trolling from nutella, but it might have cleared people. I don't care about wifom. Long Con town from that, anyone?

Town from what?

He seemed to legitimately believe that nutella was town after the poll expired while she was trolling. It's a wifom read, but I don't care much and think it looked real.

Click here for an expanded take

[Gavial]

nutella continues talking to people

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: lost monkey] aubergine

you seem to be in neutral commentary mode, let's see some reads

Beep boop vote for lost monkey. Meh. This could very easily be a teammate prod. It could just as easily be an easy observation to direct toward a low key civilian.

Spoiler: show

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Juicy. A reads list. Sonny gets places in the "Strong Town" pile after appearing only once previously in this ISO, when nutella simply agreed with someone else's town read on them. I am inclined to say that's a good look for Sonny: sometimes mafia members will effortlessly adopt firm town reads on town players that are not suspected by anyone because there's no sense in pushing on them. I don't feel like nutella would place her teammate on such a high pedestal out of the blue like this.

Intriguing town leans: Gnome, Martin, Dana, Hawk, Act. Both Hawk and Act get slight quibbles, which is something I could see nutella attaching to a teammate. Martin also gets a caveat about sheeping Alison, but that's not as much of a concern. If Alison is town and nutella has assigned town-read status to her, she is almost forced to also assign a town-read to Martin.
Dana and Mac both came up a little bit earlier on in this ISO but with no firm conclusions. I have no immediate concerns about them here. I would not be surprised if there is at least one teammate in nutella's "town leans" pile.
Gavial, nanook, and Long Con all get suspicion hurled at them for no stated reason. Noted. I don't remember any notable mentions of or interactions with LC prior to this.

Spoiler: show

I think Act's posting has improved in recent times. I'm willing to give her some space and see how she uses it.

I liked her dismissive response to you asking for a read list tbh

Noting that nutella has now substantiated a town read on Act. Coolio.

Spoiler: show

Alison what do you think about lost monkey?

Prompts Alison to talk about lost monkey. Inclined to call that a good look for our monkey friend.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

1. My town reads.
2. Win with town.

Finding someone genuine?


Unrelated, screw nested quotes. Really.

yeah lol

Not really the only reason no I just sort of generally toneread you as wolfy/found your approach disingenuous, starting with the dana read (bc again I'm a defender of hedginess and didn't see it your way). But as you've posted more it seems like that's just your style and you are poking in various places and have solvey intentions. I could move off you but don't know where

You could just unvote? There is no compulsion that a person needs to be voted. This I could move off you but don't know where stuff I don't buy it and seems fake. Leaning scum here.

Allison like an evolved form of alana lol.

Hi Tangy. This may be one of my final mafia games I play. I have been considering retirement. Not, to rain on the date though, I just feel as though I can't mod how I want to mod anymore, which is my main appeal to the game in the recent years.

Owner you should try modding games here owner. Some of the setup i have seen here are right up your alley.

It'd be super to know what made you feel this way, and what playing a game before this one did to change your perspective.

The playstyles are mainly the reason if I have to say. Certain things which you guys see as townie are not seen as townie thing over there. Now lets take act what you guys saw stilted and acting scummie from act we consider as something normal from her. This is her playstyle this is how she plays regardless of alignment. Similarly to what you felt with gnome. I felt the same way when I saw syn, mac play. Dana coming in and saying i am nervous and stuff if i didnt see others play last game even i would have felt it was scummie.

Like my impression is most of LM's posts are comments on things that don't actually have bearing on the game itself, there's a couple like the discussion of act's style that could come close to giving a read but avoid actually doing so. There's a hint of a scumread on me, and some interaction with Jay and that's it. I feel like they're hesitant to actually get into the meat of the game.

Okay. By far the most substantial post in the first 24 hours of the game from nutella is a mini-case against lost monkey. That is a good look. This feels much more like "I have identified my Day 1 target and will begin pushing them here" rather than "I better start shading my partner."

Spoiler: show

I thought Owner was sort of off-topic/not into the game yet in a more similar way to Gnome (which I found townier than LM's borderline approach)

By contrast, here's a not-good look for Owner. And maybe a good look for Gnome? Owner starts to receive some heat, and nutella comes to her defense promptly, and cites another player (Gnome) whose style Owner is reminiscent of. It's possible that Gnome is town and nutella chose this particular association (Owner -> Gnome) so that the towny goodness of Gnome could be transmitted to Owner in turn. The unprompted dig at lost monkey is also another good look for them, and gives this post an air of slight anxiety: nutella wants attention on monkey and off of Owner.

Spoiler: show

......kito? wat why

This is in response to Guillo placing Kito in their list of Top 3 town reads. It's an easy question to ask. It might be easier if Kito really is town. But it's still easy even if Kito is nutella's partner. Meh.

Spoiler: show

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

Unless lost monkey specifically requested to be bussed Day 1, this is too aggressive to be distancing. I don't think that is likely.

Spoiler: show

Meh talk to me about belzy i dont have a good handle there

After several posts going back and forth with Guillo (town), nutella asks for some talk about Belzy. This is Belzy's first appearance in nutella's ISO. Neat.

Spoiler: show

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

Does this read from Owner exist if they are partners? It was a bit goofy from the beginning. I don't know Owner well enough to say whether or not she would produce this read on her teammate. Nutella's response is nothing.

Spoiler: show

How does one catch Alison as scum anyway? This is not a rhetorical question.

I don't know. I think you need to explain her playstyle or look for patterns in her playstyle over time.

Huh

Why does this post exist

Why does this post exist?

Spoiler: show

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

lalala dadv isnt real it cant hurt me

Owner objects to the monkey wagon, and nutella playfully shoots her objection down. Meh. I can go either way on this.

Spoiler: show

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

mmmm spicy

At the very least, nutella is no longer uncomfortable with people talking about Owner. I still don't know if anything here suggests that they are not compatible though.
The way nutella is handling Alison looks very good for her.

Spoiler: show

Like mafia mac or nook could be pushing me because I'm not literally the top poster and they think they can look good for not just admitting I'm obv town already

But I'm not afraid of mac staying on me for more than like five minutes regardless of his alignment

I think nanook is just town here. I am more iffy on Mac, but this second post feels like it's meant to be a playful taunt to disarm Mac slightly. That would be a good indicator for him.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

I have deemed this response to be Fake. Nutella is concerned. She is concerned because all three of these people are town and their votes are Legit.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

[VOTE: Tangy] aubergine Same reasons as voting for Sloonei...it's a tell. This questionnaire feels more agenda based than Sloonei's did. It feels like you are really looking to see where everyone is at. It's like you are specifically fishing for something. There is a motive behind this.

It kind of looks like you are trying to be on good graces, but to me it feels like you are searching for reasons to keep or not keep someone in the game. It is troublesome.

hmm

going for the big fish here eh

Not feisty enough.

Spoiler: show

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

Why do the people voting you matter here?

for mac see my last post, for nanook and guillo basically I always expect us to suspect each other

It's always town in sonnydelphia.

Spoiler: show

got anything to say about nutellagate?

What's a nutellagate? Is is a gate made of nutella? I feel that's too on the nose to be it. They are there. I don't recall their playstyle. I feel like I should know more about their music tastes from all the walrus' we've been in together.

They are an elephant in this room, but I don't feel like they are the loudest or most memorable one here.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

say something game related or die

Owner's response to the prompt for a comment about nutella looks super uncomfortable. Nutella responds by prodding her to say something more substantive. That could easily be A Teammate prodding Another to lean into the distancing act, rather than avoiding it. In fact, I might be inclined to say that it is. If Owner is town, she is at least passively resisting the wagon on nutella. Why does Mafia Nutella respond to that by calling Town Owner out like this?

Spoiler: show

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Spoiler: show

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Both Jay and Mac are town here. Jay read super 100% confident, though I was already there before. But since this is easy to substantiate, I'll articulate it here in case anyone is still on the fence and somehow reading all of this: nutella is very much caught off guard by Jay digging this list up and waving it in front of her to highlight the contradictory nature of her handling of Mac at the present compared to a few hours earlier. Jay has caught nutella in an inconsistency. Nutella is flustered. They are never teammates in this exchange.

Spoiler: show

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Please tell me about Gnome.

eh, I want more from her but her entry sounded more comfortable than not on a tonal level from what I know of her, even if she didn't really get into the game at all.

I have no clear read on Gnome here, but it exists. She was specifically prompted to justify a town-read on Gnome, and I have previously felt like that town-read looked good for Gnome, as a "too town to be suspected, so let's just move on" slot.

Spoiler: show

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Nutella is leaning more heavily into the Owner suspicion now, which could be a sign that they are not teammates. But the progression up to now has looked like potential distancing to me, and Owner's behavior in some of the posts nutella has criticized would be impossible not to criticize, tbh. nutella would look worse if she had produced a town-read on Owner here.

Spoiler: show

Owner has a unique way of looking at games, and it is typical of her to make reads on the basis of things most people would not. At face value that's fine.

What's problematic to me is that it doesn't seem to be leading somewhere yet, with the exception of some reads that I just don't think are appropriate (e.g. Tangy mafia for a questionnaire).

I thought the tangy one was actually one of the more intriguing ones, I want more from her on that

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Pretend they're onion soup reads

Its just her thing, and as we say

Everything is game related

Okay but she said upgaymers is a filler word so I can't take anything she says seriously

These two posts back-to-back gave me mild whiplash. "Owner's read on Tangy is intriguing, actually." 4 minutes elapse. "I can't take anything Owner says seriously."
At the very least, this is a bogus read on Owner. But we kind of already knew that.

Spoiler: show

love that like a third of the players aren't doing anything d1

i forgot LC was even in this game

nutella had previously listed LC as one of her three strongest suspects. If they are partners, I feel like she does not so easily forget Distancing Plan #1 ("call him a suspect") before initiating Distancing Plan #2 ("pretend to forget he exists"). Tentative good look for LC.

The rest of nutella's posts came in a flurry at the end of the phase when she had All The Votes, or during twilight. I'll dig into those separately if I feel like it, but for now I'm leaving this as it is.

Loose tier rankings based purely on this ISO, tiers not internally ranked:

Very Town
Jay
Guillotine
Tangy
Sonny

Largely Town
Mac
Gavial
Alison
Nanook
lost monkey
Gnome

A Little Town
Martin
Long Con
Dana

Suspect or Intriguing
Actvscenei
Owner

Not Enough To Form A Clear Read
Allcrab
bad bunny
Belzy
hawkataine
Kito
Made*
Seanzie

*Made was the counterwagon to nutella at the end of the day, and I have not reviewed her posts from that time yet.

[/spoiler]

IDK what Guill is thinking but like.....
The top town is the EXACT SAME as Nut’s.

I tryin to pocket me?

[Gavial]

IDK why but each time I’m like “why not wolf read this guy”
I see this images and I’m like “shit! That’s Townie!”
Even though I know it’s NAI.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is why folks hate nested quotes.

Let's use mentions or add spoilers for huge ones please and thanks my friends.

[Gavial]

Quality trolling from nutella, but it might have cleared people. I don't care about wifom. Long Con town from that, anyone?

Town from what?

Although this guy on the other hand....

[Gavial]

This is why folks hate nested quotes.

Let's use mentions or add spoilers for huge ones please and thanks my friends.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Vote Scum!

[VOTE: seth] aubergine

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If it was still 2016 and I was the snap voting type I'd probably have already voted Belzy. But I'm an old sage now who takes his time.

What do you find wolfy about them?

click here

Do you understand how disappointed I am this wasn't a rickroll, wtf man

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of nutella and Owner

From nutella

Spoiler: show

I thought Owner was sort of off-topic/not into the game yet in a more similar way to Gnome (which I found townier than LM's borderline approach)

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

How does one catch Alison as scum anyway? This is not a rhetorical question.

I don't know. I think you need to explain her playstyle or look for patterns in her playstyle over time.

Huh

Why does this post exist

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

lalala dadv isnt real it cant hurt me

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

mmmm spicy

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

mmmm spicy

What about 5his is spicy

That owner seemed to backtrack on why she was uneasy with the wagon. I think Alison might be onto something, it seemed like a fake elaboration

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

[VOTE: Tangy] aubergine Same reasons as voting for Sloonei...it's a tell. This questionnaire feels more agenda based than Sloonei's did. It feels like you are really looking to see where everyone is at. It's like you are specifically fishing for something. There is a motive behind this.

It kind of looks like you are trying to be on good graces, but to me it feels like you are searching for reasons to keep or not keep someone in the game. It is troublesome.

hmm

going for the big fish here eh

I've been calling things I agree with spicy for literal years now what is wrong with you people

generally they are in fact spicy

So what did you think about those owner posts then

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

I'm like not caught up most games. I don't get why people keep calling it that way when it happens like every game. It's like no one remembers this...though we haven't really played together lately so I guess that's it.

smh

got anything to say about nutellagate?

What's a nutellagate? Is is a gate made of nutella? I feel that's too on the nose to be it. They are there. I don't recall their playstyle. I feel like I should know more about their music tastes from all the walrus' we've been in together.

They are an elephant in this room, but I don't feel like they are the loudest or most memorable one here.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

say something game related or die

Not gonna lie, owner’s reads based on personality traits, anti-immigration sentiment and other non game related subjects is starting to ping me hard

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Owner has a unique way of looking at games, and it is typical of her to make reads on the basis of things most people would not. At face value that's fine.

What's problematic to me is that it doesn't seem to be leading somewhere yet, with the exception of some reads that I just don't think are appropriate (e.g. Tangy mafia for a questionnaire).

I thought the tangy one was actually one of the more intriguing ones, I want more from her on that

Realizing this was going to be difficult, but not wanting to quit the bit just yet, and also quite high

Coming up with bs things to say in bad fanfic is hard. Can someone ask me questions on things I should have opinions on?

if you need a starting point, I'd like your takes on lost monkey and owner

Feedback requested:

Is lost monkey's read on Owner TMI

maybe

Half awake and haven't read, voting me is extremely dumb, there are def wolves on my wagon rn. Would look more into the names there if I have time before eod but from what I've read I'm fine with LM or owner votes today.

Nanook I have issues with

Could you share or reiterate these issues?

I don't townread him

I mean it's just like every other game with him, he just could easily be a wolf fmpov but it's nothing concrete

have your views of Owner changed

I haven't really read any owner posts since last night so no

Will vote there for self pres if I have to

Lemme see what owner has done

the wolves are so good at gaining everyones trust and then they just turn around and kill us all

hmm, do I trust the person with the cat avi? Sweet, innocent, cute looking kitty...hmm...they are probably...or maybe they will scratch me later...hmm...I think I should ignore my inclinations towards reading someone's avi. It's probably NAI.

Owner, what are your thoughts on Dana?

And what was your purpose for posting this/saying this out loud?

She hasn't said anything that pings me. She feels fine. She's in the slight town boat. I don't really know her range or how capable she is.

So far my the people who have pinged me are yourself, Tangy, nutella, and Sloonei

Alison's personality is strong, but I don't necessarily feel that that makes her mafia. If her reads were to clash really heavily with mine after days had gone by, I would maybe revisit her. But right now, her opinions are her own. I don't always have a purpose when responding to something. I just feel like that's something I would comment about and then I usually do so. As for saying things that help other players relate to or read me better, that probably still isn't my best suit, especially when playing with new people.

hmmm

also feeling like owner's posts can really just come from either alignment so far, there's not a ton of depth of thought but I can see them being real enough.

[VOTE: made] aubergine

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

[VOTE: Tangy] aubergine Same reasons as voting for Sloonei...it's a tell. This questionnaire feels more agenda based than Sloonei's did. It feels like you are really looking to see where everyone is at. It's like you are specifically fishing for something. There is a motive behind this.

It kind of looks like you are trying to be on good graces, but to me it feels like you are searching for reasons to keep or not keep someone in the game. It is troublesome.

I am fishing for something, lmao. That's why I asked about it. Town players can have an agenda, I don't understand why that's hard to perceive. I don't know most of the players in this game that well or at all. As such, I'd like to have some data by which to assess your behavior.

To me agenda is more of scum thing unless you are doing like a gambit as town. But even town gambits rub me the wrong way. It makes sense, but I still feel like you have an ulterior motive here.

Now this seems more like a real thought

I start with this post where I posit a theory that would be in Owner's favor. That can be its own discussion.

The prevailing theme I see here is one of pivots. She started with that sort of lukewarm assessment of Owner in the first post in the spoiler. Then when Alison beefed, nutella turned hard and started attacking Owner with a decent degree of aggression. As EOD approached, nutella maintained a duality in her counterwagon views -- both monkey and Owner are fine. Either/or. Kill 'em, just not me. In the very end she pivoted similarly to Made (something to think about in his review). It's not impossible that this stuff is distancing. I don't think that'd be my first guess though. It's easier for me to interpret this as nutella opportunism than as choice distancing.

~~~

From Owner

Spoiler: show

nutella is scum. Just getting it out of the way now.

What's their tell? You can tell me. I don't bite...much.

Owner brain: *Owner stop saying all these questionable things on your first date*

Also Owner brain: *I have a small mouth though...it really wouldn't be much*

Is Tangy town? She was the only one here and already calls someone scum without input.

It was years ago, but some people know of it. I just assumed I must have told you about it or brought it up in another game.

Nope. On the rare occasion I encounter that (that is, Glorfindel) I prefer to respect a player's wishes anyway.

How about this instead: any initial impressions?

Tangy is talkative. That's normal for her from what I remember.

Nutella's first post pinged me a little...not sure if I have really heard upgaymers? in a sentence before..it could be nai, it's just a bit out there for me which...on this first date I expect there is more not less of it to come (almost spelled that wrong) I think I need to get out more

Mac could be town if I remember his meta right. If memory serves, he's like more gunho as town...idk, I think that's right

You (JJJ) could be anything..light town for now

I need to read more posts though from the others.

I need to see more of Sonny's posts.

My vote on Sloonei is an old PerC tell where when scum don't know what to say on day 1 they make a questionnaire. I think the context of it was how it was determined whether it was scummy or nai, but it has been awhile.

Look, I have to go to work now. I know it was probably strange to schedule a first date 30 minutes before my shift, but I like to keep things fresh like that this was a lot of fun, we should do it again sometime

we haven't even gotten our salads yet

But wouldn't you be paired with a someone from PerC though? Or did I misread and all the dates are with people we already know...hmm...or think we know...

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

lalala dadv isnt real it cant hurt me

what's lalala dadv? Or Is this someone I should know? Also, hate is a strong word, Alison. Is that definitely how you feel about it or is lesser than hate?

Basically she thinks my meme entry was suspicious or maybe not(?) because shes boomer and doesnt meme

Gen Y here

First date icebreaker question for everyone: what’s your favorite trip you’ve ever been on?

Disney World/Disney Cruises. And you?

Follow up, why did you choose to ask this particular question?

wolfy first post

I don't see why that's wolfy.

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

I'm like not caught up most games. I don't get why people keep calling it that way when it happens like every game. It's like no one remembers this...though we haven't really played together lately so I guess that's it.

smh

got anything to say about nutellagate?

What's a nutellagate? Is is a gate made of nutella? I feel that's too on the nose to be it. They are there. I don't recall their playstyle. I feel like I should know more about their music tastes from all the walrus' we've been in together.

They are an elephant in this room, but I don't feel like they are the loudest or most memorable one here.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

say something game related or die

I'm pretty sure, you talked about your elephant avatar already. So are you admitting that your elephant avatar isn't relevant but you still felt the need to talk about it anyways?

I just want things to be clear in my head.

My avatar is extremely townie

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

What do you mean it's not alignment indicative? The coffee tell on Dizzy was a pattern. Something very small could easily be another pattern. Do you not analyze patterns? A lot of stuff can be alignment indicative. It depends the players and certain variables, but they can be there.

the wolves are so good at gaining everyones trust and then they just turn around and kill us all

hmm, do I trust the person with the cat avi? Sweet, innocent, cute looking kitty...hmm...they are probably...or maybe they will scratch me later...hmm...I think I should ignore my inclinations towards reading someone's avi. It's probably NAI.

Owner, what are your thoughts on Dana?

And what was your purpose for posting this/saying this out loud?

She hasn't said anything that pings me. She feels fine. She's in the slight town boat. I don't really know her range or how capable she is.

So far my the people who have pinged me are yourself, Tangy, nutella, and Sloonei

Alison's personality is strong, but I don't necessarily feel that that makes her mafia. If her reads were to clash really heavily with mine after days had gone by, I would maybe revisit her. But right now, her opinions are her own. I don't always have a purpose when responding to something. I just feel like that's something I would comment about and then I usually do so. As for saying things that help other players relate to or read me better, that probably still isn't my best suit, especially when playing with new people.

Orange - This would definitely be an atypical way to cast suspicion upon one's mafia teammate. Owner has her own way of doing business, so I won't discount it entirely. But it'd be a first for me.

Green - This one didn't age well. It's not an ideal time for facetiousness when Mac is asking for thoughts about someone who has now flipped mafia. I suspect this is an easy moment to misunderstand, but I will still log it as a negative data point.

Owner's responses to nutella are rather flat. I don't derive much from them, and a lack of "good" is still a noteworthy thing. It's an awkward interaction later in the day with nutella giving Owner the business to a degree and Owner responding to it in this subdued manner. I don't know that Owner's responses to Alison's suspicion were quite the same, for example. Maybe the cyan interaction could be called Owner's best in this period. At least here there's a vague sense that she isn't in a planned or theatric dialogue. Hard to say with confidence.

Owner's final vote went to Made.

~~~

Conclusion

There's a lot to unpack here, and I am sensing a little internal conflict in my own view -- my instinct (in Owner's favor) is not very aligned with the evidence-based logic-nerd side of my brain (not in Owner's favor). I think further developing the dialogue I presented earlier can help with this one. Overall I think it's fair to call Owner a suspect within a POE context.

[Guillotine]

This is why folks hate nested quotes.

Let's use mentions or add spoilers for huge ones please and thanks my friends.

I tried... and failed

[Guillotine]

IDK why but each time I’m like “why not wolf read this guy”
I see this images and I’m like “shit! That’s Townie!”
Even though I know it’s NAI.

Now who is trying to pocket who?

[Guillotine]

[VOTE: Dana] aubergine

[MartinGG99]

Oh look, it's a rare sighting of Martin.
(anyways,)

@Seanize (When you're not busy) I've read through of what you've said about Actv a few times. I have had a hard time feeling for it. So, In summary, does your suspicion boil down to:

1. You don't think Actv is being their usual / meta-self
and
2. You think Nutella & Actv interactions aren't favorable.

Is that correct? Or am I misunderstanding or missing something?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guillo you agree with actv re: dana? I had the opposite reaction, I thought dana's tone was more villagery and actv's game me awk vibes

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

[QUESTION MARKS BEAR GUY IMAGE]

why would a wolf say that lol

I think this is TMI on both Dana and Guillotine. The "lol" accentuates that, like the read being made is just too silly to exist, wow what a silly townie you are, good one doofus.

[MartinGG99]

Oh look, it's a rare sighting of Martin.
(anyways,)

@Seanize (When you're not busy) I've read through of what you've said about Actv a few times. I have had a hard time feeling for it. So, In summary, does your suspicion boil down to:

1. You don't think Actv is being their usual / meta-self
and
2. You think Nutella & Actv interactions aren't favorable.

Is that correct? Or am I misunderstanding or missing something?

@Seanzie

fixed

[Seanzie]

I just finished reading Page 28. I like Alison's takes on Owner (I really didn't like Owner's ISO when I popped in to drop a vote yesterday, and she hasn't appeared today, so Owner is still a scumread of mine), but Alison also said something about Nutella that was essentially just a repeat of something she said before? Maybe I am wrong, but I found that weird. I don't exactly know what to think of Owner/Nutella. There are times they look teammate aligned and times they don't. Sonny has also continued to look okay. Mac took a hard stance on Nutella, which probably looks good, I am curious to see where it goes.

[Alison]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

I think there's a good chance both of them are town and I don't believe in D2 tinfoil.

[Seanzie]

Oh look, it's a rare sighting of Martin.
(anyways,)

@Seanize (When you're not busy) I've read through of what you've said about Actv a few times. I have had a hard time feeling for it. So, In summary, does your suspicion boil down to:

1. You don't think Actv is being their usual / meta-self
and
2. You think Nutella & Actv interactions aren't favorable.

Is that correct? Or am I misunderstanding or missing something?

Yes, kind of. I think Actv was trying to replicate her town meta (unsucessfully imo, it gave me super bad vibes) in her treatment of Dana early on, and other than this, I haven't seen much strongly indicative of town!Actv (pre page 28). 2. is exactly right, Actv didn't treat Nutella like I think town!Actv would (kind of back to 1.), and scum!Nutella had some progressions early on that looked like distancing to me.

[Tangrowth]

Okay, here, stumbling around for a bit.

[Alison]

1) Alison godreads Martin town.

2) nutella drops Martin into her readslist as town lean with the note "sheeping Alison I guess".

I believe this was genuine reluctance to clear Martin who was lowposting and would almost certainly be POE'd if it wasn't for me. She is pissed off Alison is in the game and can reveal Martin's role card and deny her a misexe. If Martin was her teammate she would go "yoooo Alison said Martin is town that means he's lack claire!!!" and just try to force him into the towncore.

Martin is town.

[Guillotine]

[VOTE: Belzy] aubergine

[Tangrowth]

I don't like Tangrowth's response to my red check.

I was fine with it.

You didn't think it seemed a little OTT?

We've met right, lol.

[MacDougall]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

I think there's a good chance both of them are town and I don't believe in D2 tinfoil.

The problem is that with Jay it's not fucking tinfoil he has bad interactives with Nutella and ended up off wagon. People like you saying that it is tinfoil makes me want to tinfoil YOU.

I am not sure why this is so hard for people to grasp. Jay has not cleared himself by his own metrics and admission so the fact that he of all people is catching easy "jay is town lol" from good analytics players is insanely weird.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of nutella and Sonny

From nutella

Spoiler: show

Finding someone genuine?


Unrelated, screw nested quotes. Really.

if you highlight the part you want to quote there's a pop up quote button that will just take the selection

I think Sonny is town.

Same

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

Sweet, can you interpret it for me?

Basically she thinks my meme entry was suspicious or maybe not(?) because shes boomer and doesnt meme

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

Why do the people voting you matter here?

for mac see my last post, for nanook and guillo basically I always expect us to suspect each other

@Sonny vote nutella

Lol, sure

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I actually have a meh read on them anyway, only note is the insta town read on Kito which must have been a joke but yall are dropping so many sincere townreads over air so who the hell knows anymore.

I didn't actually remember kito was the person whose first post I snap townread but they came back and were towny so

@nutella there's a very good chance your dead. Legacy?

made sloonei lm are scum reads

strongest town reads?

Guillo, sonny, belzy, Dana, maybe alison and tangy but with reservations

Kind of a snoozy set of posts. nutella didn't bring up Sonny until Alison did first, and she seconded the town read. It stayed that way until nutella took a dirt nap. The chatter between the two is quite neutral and doesn't amount to much. I've no strong opinion either way.

~~~

From Sonny

Spoiler: show

what the frick frack snick snack is going ON fellas

town

Is joke? Is serious?

Finding someone genuine?


Unrelated, screw nested quotes. Really.

if you highlight the part you want to quote there's a pop up quote button that will just take the selection

Just griping so people don't forget. If you offer me a genuine solution how can I complain anymore?

Woe.

Vote nutella

I thought most Syndicate players had Nutella as townie, no? Why is Jay reading them as town wrong? Did I miss something here?

Also, when did Jay call Owner town, she only just started playing?

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

Nope, was just a premonition. It says nothing about his alignment, just that he has this weird power that involves being able to attract votes without people even really saying he's scum, happens with those who know him as well. Strange super power.

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

Sweet, can you interpret it for me?

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Let's see how this feels.

Tell me things, Owner.

(also, psst, Nutella said "Spicy", check it out!)

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

Why do the people voting you matter here?

Yeah nutella stop being racist to us aussies

=O

Nutella frozen again

You've said this several times, is this a thing, or a poke?

Nutella frozen again

You've said this several times, is this a thing, or a poke?

you tryna defend ur woof mate?

Huh? I've no issue with Nutella being scum read, the minimal amount of Syndicate non-town reads is bothersome so have at it. I'm just struggling to tell when you're being serious and when you're joking. I'll get there, probably.

@Sonny vote nutella

Lol, sure

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I actually have a meh read on them anyway, only note is the insta town read on Kito which must have been a joke but yall are dropping so many sincere townreads over air so who the hell knows anymore.

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

What about Nook unvoting fills you with awe?

What’s shady about not catching up?

I’d like thought processes backing up accusations please.

I'm used to Nook not voting D1 and/or being coy/non-compliant about sharing any scum reads because, say it with me folks "I don't believe in scum reads". If he's town I value his reads so I'm interested that he's voted Nutella with a bunch of other Syndicate players.

It's sketchy that she keeps mentioning that she needs to catch up, then not doing it, then complaining about it etc. Catch up or don't. Harp on it though and it feels like, err, what's the word here, eugh, like "I can't give decent reasons for anything I say because I'm not up to date" so I'll keep reminding you I'm not up to date so you don't hold it against me.

I suddenly townread nutella

Sonny sorry if you've already weighed in on this but what are your current takes on LoMo and Owner?

LoMo's feels okay to me, I thought his call out on Nutella and the 'could unvote' thing was good. I'm still waiting to see town!Owner, I don't care about the wording stuff, that's Owner being Owner, she just feels 'not here'.

Orange - These are just a couple little things that make my eyeball tweak a bit. The first one attributes what could be called a soft defense to "the Syndicate players", particularly to me. The second one is just goofy looking to me.

Green - Sonny's final vote was on nutella, so these posts highlight the moments that developed. It's a bit softball even if the vote lands true. The location of this vote in the wagon order could be insightful, if it can be determined.

Lastly, the little emoji response in the second-last post. If Sonny is mafia, then that's probably an example of Sonny doing what Mac suspected I did in response to his momentary "town read" on nutella. It doesn't have to be that way. It's an emoji.

~~~

Conclusion

I don't think there's much here that is conclusively to Sonny's credit. The vote itself may be. This feels pretty squishy to me, so if there was a busser I wouldn't rule out Sonny. It may be best to weigh face value reads on Sonny more heavily though, because this interaction doesn't indicate that they are teammates either -- my gripes require some degree of stretching. It really tells me nothing at all.

[Tangrowth]

I'd really rather not fucking die though because of this, so yeah... if this is a reaction test or something, Alison, please rescind it within enough time.

Do you townread Alison?

I don't know. I had some hesitation on her yesterday, but my gut thinks she looks better in light of nutella's flip (need to confirm through digging or look at Jay's thing if he's going to ISO Alison), so my inclination is that she's town. Additionally, I certainly don't know why she would be doing this right now if she were scum, it doesn't make sense to me.

Why do you think Alison was poisoned?

I'm not sure. What do you think? @Guillotine

[Guillotine]

We chop between Belzy and Owner if they dont show up. Also Garden Gnome if they dont begin to contribute more, this will not be the game i lose to lurkers. No chance in hell.

[Sloonei]

I feel like something was wrong in my nutella analysis, but I’m not sure what. I’m not blown away by other of the “suspects” I came away with and could see either one of them (Act and Owner) being town.

There was a relatively long list of people I could reach no conclusion on. That is probably the source of some of my unease.

[Seanzie]

I've ignored all of JJJ's "interactions with" posts thus far since I won't ever get caught up if I read them all. Can someone remind me to go back and look at those eventually?

[Guillotine]

I'd really rather not fucking die though because of this, so yeah... if this is a reaction test or something, Alison, please rescind it within enough time.

Do you townread Alison?

I don't know. I had some hesitation on her yesterday, but my gut thinks she looks better in light of nutella's flip (need to confirm through digging or look at Jay's thing if he's going to ISO Alison), so my inclination is that she's town. Additionally, I certainly don't know why she would be doing this right now if she were scum, it doesn't make sense to me.

Why do you think Alison was poisoned?

I'm not sure. What do you think? @Guillotine

You are not sure? If there is doubt there gotta be something, what is that something, tell me.

[MartinGG99]

Oh look, it's a rare sighting of Martin.
(anyways,)

@Seanize (When you're not busy) I've read through of what you've said about Actv a few times. I have had a hard time feeling for it. So, In summary, does your suspicion boil down to:

1. You don't think Actv is being their usual / meta-self
and
2. You think Nutella & Actv interactions aren't favorable.

Is that correct? Or am I misunderstanding or missing something?

Yes, kind of. I think Actv was trying to replicate her town meta (unsucessfully imo, it gave me super bad vibes) in her treatment of Dana early on, and other than this, I haven't seen much strongly indicative of town!Actv (pre page 28). 2. is exactly right, Actv didn't treat Nutella like I think town!Actv would (kind of back to 1.), and scum!Nutella had some progressions early on that looked like distancing to me.

I think regardless of whether you're right on Actv I should call you town.

Some of the stuff you said about meta and all that felt fairly similar to in the past when I've wondered about a player specifically, who've I've tried to read in the past (and ended unsuccessfully) and still tried to again.

Or something along those lines. I think if you were trying to scum-paint or distance here you would've possibly expanded beyond those two points or had a different understanding of what you were saying.