The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 pm I very rarely play with this ties rule, so I’m open to theory. I believe it’s more common on 451.

tbh, on 451 this day would be over by now.

Dolby is a good wolf, yeah. I expect better from him as either alignment, I'm a bit confused and it's why I'm so reluctant. He can be pretty active and drive discussion as town and he can put up a very townie performance as a wolf.

He is a solid option, I just... want to see more of him. It feels rather unfair to me.

I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

We've established you don't care about PoE, and that you can't read Lime Coke which I thought you had a "good" track record on. You've been wrong x2 and still mock my posts / my reads

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:24 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:18 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:17 am Being a consensus townread is unfamiliar territory. Should I change how I dress or something

Do you agree on the game state at least?

Almost. I'd replace ilario with g-man in my list.

That said, a poe of 4 right now doesn't feel right, especially after Lime Coke was a miss yesterday. It feels too easy. Like, if ilario, Dizzy, JJJ and myself are all town, how did we collectively get sig, and then that one wrong?

That’s kind of why I was tinfoiling sloonei/jjj yesterday

But I think given jjjs posting eod + his conviction to solve + sloonei being poisoned today as the watcher claim I’m just gonna accept that we’re all town and simply just misvoted

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

What?



Do you think he's Maf or Town?

I'm actually currently waffling on a couple interactions Ilario had. Thinking if they're clearing for a player of his stature.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:31 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

What?



Do you think he's Maf or Town?

He has enough town reads to solve the game, but doesn't believe in solving

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:30 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

We've established you don't care about PoE, and that you can't read Lime Coke which I thought you had a "good" track record on. You've been wrong x2 and still mock my posts / my reads

I care about poe, just not yours lol

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:31 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

What?



Do you think he's Maf or Town?

I think He’s town which is why I’m looking for that sweet poison to put me out of my misery

Let’s try to stay civil, gang. We’re hanging in there!

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:32 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:30 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

We've established you don't care about PoE, and that you can't read Lime Coke which I thought you had a "good" track record on. You've been wrong x2 and still mock my posts / my reads

I care about poe, just not yours lol

Which other players do you historically read well?

Oh well I just voted:gman and I see that my top towns and sloonei are on Dolby, if y’all want me to change lmk

@Sloonei if you want your time alive say the word. We’re at L-2.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:35 pm @Sloonei if you want your time alive say the word. We’re at L-2.

Which interactions (Just give me players) are you clearing from being partnered with Ilario?

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:34 pm Oh well I just voted:gman and I see that my top towns and sloonei are on Dolby, if y’all want me to change lmk

G-Man might as well be an equivalent vote for me, so you’re good.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:36 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:34 pm Oh well I just voted:gman and I see that my top towns and sloonei are on Dolby, if y’all want me to change lmk

so you’re good.

Debatable

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

Mostly for the purpose of keeping alive a viable alternative.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:35 pm @Sloonei if you want your time alive say the word. We’re at L-2.

Which interactions (Just give me players) are you clearing from being partnered with Ilario?

Until I can spend some time on my laptop and do proper research, I would stick to this. The only confident dissociation is from you. I have a few less confident dissociations (lighter green), perhaps similar to what you call “one-way”.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:40 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:35 pm @Sloonei if you want your time alive say the word. We’re at L-2.

Which interactions (Just give me players) are you clearing from being partnered with Ilario?

Until I can spend some time on my laptop and do proper research, I would stick to this. The only confident dissociation is from you. I have a few less confident dissociations (lighter green), perhaps similar to what you call “one-way”.

Well, I don't really rank my reads, I just check whether no read exists, a single player gave me the read, or if both players gave me the same read. So if both players gave me the same read, I feel pretty confident about it, since then it doesn't rely on a single player doing something good or getting lucky. I'm playing with a couple other ideas at the same time as I try to narrow my PoE process with players I'm not familiar with / who refuse to play a PoE/mechanically minded game.

It's obviously challenging because I don't really get to explore my PoE till post-game most of the time here.

Right now I can come up with several trios, but the world of 4 is very narrow... Unless I made a mistake, so I'm trying to re-evaluate the reads that one player gave me to see if I think the interaction is more likely town than others.

@JaggedJimmyJay

Our Ilario read is quite similar in that you have him not super likely with Marmot & SoA.

So I'm concluding that Ilario can only be mafia in the world:

Ilario - Dolby - G-Man - Johanna (Which I think was one of the potential worlds when I initially drew up the PoE).

So we agree on that?

Also,

@JaggedJimmyJay

I have Falcon as not likely with Dolby, and potentially with Marmot which is two changes from how you view them (opposite light reads) - In my view my own assessment dramatically decreases the odds of Falcon being mafia. So maybe that's something that we should evaluate - Though I think in either of our reads, Falcon is already unlikely to be mafia.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:51 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

Our Ilario read is quite similar in that you have him not super likely with Marmot & SoA.

So I'm concluding that Ilario can only be mafia in the world:

Ilario - Dolby - G-Man - Johanna (Which I think was one of the potential worlds when I initially drew up the PoE).

So we agree on that?

Off-hand, yes. The only alternative would be to include Dizzy as mafia.

I want to re-examine the ilario/SoA interaction. I can’t recall what I saw to green it.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:35 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:32 pm Hi I still haven't fully read the thread

I'm wondering...is there a point to telling us this?


[VOTE: Dolby] aubergine

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:06 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 am I do not like the tendency among the consensus town/highposters that we just yeet the low-posters. I'm struggling to find any reads rn that aren't close to having the same effect as sort by postcount.

This has present from as early as the 200s, from Dizzy

Haven't even read fully yet, just feel the need to say this.

Also, Jo's D2 entrance isn't bad for them. No I will not elaborate

You keep mentioning you haven't fully read yet. Why?

These are the interactions that I think can be read into... I'm not sure which way to go on them for now, so maybe I'll just discard them entirely and consider that Falcon and Dolby have no associative / dissociative. I just wonder if Falcon is in-thread coaching. I know from experience playing on this site as mafia, my teammates would occasionally post legitimate gripes that they have about my play in the thread (and there have been a great many gripes to deal with).

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 pm Dolby - I tend to jump quickly on top of things that I don't like in game play, like his "haven't been able to catch up", and I'm wrong far more often than I'm right.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:43 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:28 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:36 pm JJJ, Ilario, Dolby, SOA



That's a good POE

If I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?

I vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?


Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.

One issue I'm seeing with Falcon on re-read is that he's not an analytical player, but his approach to Dolby's slot attempts to find a reason to not vote Dolby that I would normally expect from a player who's more. Like this is a read I would expect from a player like JJJ or myself if the former wasn't so set on believing that the site doesn't favor killing low clout players first, and the former less set on being a clown for prolonged periods...

So I can see how this could mean Falcon - Dolby - G-Man team. Yesterday's off-wagon votes really don't matter because there was never a risk of someone other than Lime Coke dying. I'm still struggling with a 4th though

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:09 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:51 pm @JaggedJimmyJay

Our Ilario read is quite similar in that you have him not super likely with Marmot & SoA.

So I'm concluding that Ilario can only be mafia in the world:

Ilario - Dolby - G-Man - Johanna (Which I think was one of the potential worlds when I initially drew up the PoE).

So we agree on that?

Off-hand, yes. The only alternative would be to include Dizzy as mafia.

I want to re-examine the ilario/SoA interaction. I can’t recall what I saw to green it.

It's probably driven by the interaction when Ilario town read SoA and everything that followed? If I had to guess.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:56 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:17 am Being a consensus townread is unfamiliar territory. Should I change how I dress or something

Who needs clothes

Naked mafia here we goooooo.

Too bad Good thing this isn't video mafia.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:08 pm By the way, you're all wrong about ties, this is exactly one type of situation where ties can be useful to town because mafia decides ties. So you can theoretically validate 2 slots at once.

How so?

The way I see it, if one player is selected in a tie, we have no idea if the other is wolf or town. Mafia has a distinct advantage in the case of a tie.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:25 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:56 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:17 am Being a consensus townread is unfamiliar territory. Should I change how I dress or something

Who needs clothes

Naked mafia here we goooooo.

Too bad Good thing this isn't video mafia.

tbh, my mafia drinking games have clothing swap roles. Need some way to keep the plebs interested.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 pm I very rarely play with this ties rule, so I’m open to theory. I believe it’s more common on 451.

I used it in Bread Mafia to give mafia a bit of an edge since I believed they were otherwise at a disadvantage on setup/numbers.

I think it's a reasonable way to rebalance a game, and to encourage players to not play for or allow ties, which I dislike.

ties are bad, hammers are goat

@NotAnAxehole, I think in most games I'd agree with your rationale on ilario/SoA -- if ilario is mafia, then the read looks like ordinary TMI. This time I'm a bit more cautious simply because of what I think my lead strategy would be as mafia in an 11 vs. 4 (town read my whole team as much as possible and cruise through a bad POE).

I just took another look though and reminded myself why I separated them:

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:00 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:57 am

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:50 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:48 am I might be leaning Ilario town based on vibes.

Dangerous as fuck to do that but I'm letting it rip.

I thought his catch up was pretty good. Why do you think it's dangerous to town lean him?

Why aren’t you worried that I’m pocketing you ? Normally people who haven’t played with me always react super paranoid when I start to tr them very strongly out of the blue

Because I know I'm townie as fuck. It doesn't surprise me if other people see that too. If you or anyone else who may be a wolf wanna pocket me they can go right ahead, I enjoy staying alive as long as possible in games. As I said, I'm not a noobie and I don't have an inherent distrust over early townreads like someone in the middle of their mafia career might have after being burned. I like to go with the flow and seeing what happens first.

This exchange breaks from the purity of the "full town read, balls-to-the-wall, ride or die" mentality that I have in mind when I think of mafia strategies. At least they spent this time talking about it in a meaningful way.

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:54 pm What makes ya guys think ilario would poison Stayposi? Is there somethin' I'm missin' here?

This is a smaller point, but if SoA is mafia it looks like someone who knows my ilario-killed-SPF theory is wrong.

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:33 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:31 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm I think the best piece of evidence I can give to clear myself is that if I was mafia I would just poison myself so I don’t have to read NAAs posts anymore

What?



Do you think he's Maf or Town?

I think He’s town which is why I’m looking for that sweet poison to put me out of my misery

Is it because you're in it? Maybe I've missed it, but this sort of posting completely doesn't jive with what I've seen from you throughout this game

(also I selfishly don't want you posioned cuz you're a fun chap)

Another observation. If there are any more cc's to be made, this is the last day they can reasonably be believed imo. If we missyeet today, we're left with zero room for error, and the last thing we'd need is a 50/50 between two roleclaims.

I believe we're at Sloonei and TSP as our PRs.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:32 pm @NotAnAxehole, I think in most games I'd agree with your rationale on ilario/SoA -- if ilario is mafia, then the read looks like ordinary TMI. This time I'm a bit more cautious simply because of what I think my lead strategy would be as mafia in an 11 vs. 4 (town read my whole team as much as possible and cruise through a bad POE).

I just took another look though and reminded myself why I separated them:

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:00 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:57 am

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:50 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:48 am I might be leaning Ilario town based on vibes.

Dangerous as fuck to do that but I'm letting it rip.

I thought his catch up was pretty good. Why do you think it's dangerous to town lean him?

Why aren’t you worried that I’m pocketing you ? Normally people who haven’t played with me always react super paranoid when I start to tr them very strongly out of the blue

Because I know I'm townie as fuck. It doesn't surprise me if other people see that too. If you or anyone else who may be a wolf wanna pocket me they can go right ahead, I enjoy staying alive as long as possible in games. As I said, I'm not a noobie and I don't have an inherent distrust over early townreads like someone in the middle of their mafia career might have after being burned. I like to go with the flow and seeing what happens first.

This exchange breaks from the purity of the "full town read, balls-to-the-wall, ride or die" mentality that I have in mind when I think of mafia strategies. At least they spent this time talking about it in a meaningful way.

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:54 pm What makes ya guys think ilario would poison Stayposi? Is there somethin' I'm missin' here?

This is a smaller point, but if SoA is mafia it looks like someone who knows my ilario-killed-SPF theory is wrong.

The second point would be especially true if Ilario didn't want to kill SPF. First point, I can't tell either way.

@Johanna and @ilario I'd be appreciative if you could each tell me how you feel about/read each other.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:12 pm So I can see how this could mean Falcon - Dolby - G-Man team. Yesterday's off-wagon votes really don't matter because there was never a risk of someone other than Lime Coke dying. I'm still struggling with a 4th though

What's the most significant reason you'd keep SoA off of that team?

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:21 pm Alright Dizzy, I’m game.

[VOTE: Falcon Man] aubergine

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:25 pm A new triad emerges. Me, Dizzy, and Stayposi. I dub us the falcon killers

Is this satisfactory to dissociate? Asking anyone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:42 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:12 pm So I can see how this could mean Falcon - Dolby - G-Man team. Yesterday's off-wagon votes really don't matter because there was never a risk of someone other than Lime Coke dying. I'm still struggling with a 4th though

What's the most significant reason you'd keep SoA off of that team?

Falcon - SoA

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:44 pm

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:21 pm Alright Dizzy, I’m game.

[VOTE: Falcon Man] aubergine

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:25 pm A new triad emerges. Me, Dizzy, and Stayposi. I dub us the falcon killers

Is this satisfactory to dissociate? Asking anyone.

No

I missed EOD1. Anyone who was there:

Did you ever have the impression that falcon could seriously be eliminated over sig?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:39 pm @Johanna and @ilario I'd be appreciative if you could each tell me how you feel about/read each other.

I mostly agree with ilario that he's very soft and cuddly. He's brought a certain positive energy but I have no idea how they play. I'm not sure they've been very proactively solvey, I mostly get good vibes but as I mentioned yesterday, I can't help but think whether I'm being pocketed.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:28 pmtbh, my mafia drinking games have clothing swap roles. Need some way to keep the plebs interested.

I love this!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:44 pm

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:21 pm Alright Dizzy, I’m game.

[VOTE: Falcon Man] aubergine

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:25 pm A new triad emerges. Me, Dizzy, and Stayposi. I dub us the falcon killers

Is this satisfactory to dissociate? Asking anyone.

I don't really think so. If SOA is mafia, I think they could take chances like that.

I think Soa's vote stayed on Falcon though, which is a bit weird cause iirc he was pretty suspicious of Sig as well

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:48 pm I missed EOD1. Anyone who was there:

Did you ever have the impression that falcon could seriously be eliminated over sig?

I didn't, cause I was too far into my Sig mafia read that I was likely going to switch back anyway. But others wouldn't necessarily know this

I thought EoD was tonight lol. But we have all the time in the world. =p

Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:37 pm Johanna is incredibly obvious town in meta btw

Illario noticing her towniness is a good look

Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:51 pmJohanna is already pretty far out of scum meta imo.

Also sometimes she does just not interact with her SRs

Dolby is vouching for Johanna via meta. If Dolby is mafia, I don't think these looks like typical teammate interactions tbh, more like TMI or buddying. But there's wifom to be had for sure.

Does anyone else here know anything about Jo's meta?

Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:24 pm [VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Dolby also votes Falcon at EoD2. I honestly don't remember how likely it was for Falcon to go over because I was really tired and thread was meme-y. But I feel like Lime was more set than Falcon, because "clout"?

I don't know if my PoE is too narrow, or I'm just reading into little comments, trying too hard to find anti-alignments. I haven't find anything really strong to say that Dolby can't be teamed with others in the PoE. I also still don't like his ISO on reread.

Maybe dumb read, but Dolby seemed the most bothered about "the triad" and even dubbed it as so. And then spf and Sloonei is poisoned. MANY CONVENE MUCH SUSPICIOUS

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:23 pm Maybe dumb read, but Dolby seemed the most bothered about "the triad" and even dubbed it as so. And then spf and Sloonei is poisoned. MANY CONVENE MUCH SUSPICIOUS

Or maybe that's actually a point against Dolby being mafia

Or maybe I'm just thinking too hard about things that can really go both ways