The Syndicate

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:13 pm if I don't go over today, who would you want to kill next?

I would answer your question

But I'm going to

Post Cap

yeah i mean, case in point

I still think Dizzy is town.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:20 pm Read Calexa's ISO. Lots of tunnelling Nut and then stopping that lol. Her style seems different here, like she's playing in a hurry or something.

@cassandra What's your PoE and why right now?

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:00 pm I also had this on my mind as I remember it triggered something in my head and it was before the JJJ flip

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:53 pm Maybe this is the game Jimmay and Sloonmeister finally landed mafia together. We can only hope.

@Dyslexicon what triggered this anyway? I feel like Sloonei at least did not post anything to make their alignment clear so why did you think Sloonei randed with Jay rather than just Jay?

It's a thing that Jimmay and Sloonei hasn't randed scum together before, and they god read each other, so if they did, the universe would implode. It's a thing we discussed last game and many others. Also I noticed both Jimmay and Sloonei wasn't really up to standards, so it seemed like it actually could be possible.

"Her style seems different here, like she's playing in a hurry or something. "
That is a good descriptor of my town play. I have a lot of frantic energy and change my mind often. You've only seen me as scum lol =p

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:22 pm I don't know if I even found Calexa's ISO that towny tbh lol me. But I'm still banking on her being town so

too bad we're RIDE OR DIE now

anyway i think i'm still at like a POE of Mac/Anne/NAA/Wilgy/Esooa/maybe Marmot. I'm sure I'm misreading someone deeper but -shrug- for now, and don't want to get Wilgy today

TOWN:
Illartic
Lime Coke
iaafr
nutella
SPF
falcon
Dizzy

POE:
Marmot
Wilgy
Mac (need to check the self-resolving stuff)
Esooa
NAA
Anne

---

In my POE, I've gotten various town pings from Marmot, Wilgy, Esooa, even NAA at times. lol even Mac for his claim? so we're on the cusp of "yes I'm misreading someone but just gonna vote who I townread the least."

also i'm capped now.~

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

all good, i wasn't trying to call anyone out specifically, more just that i feel like I've seen several games lately that should be easy wins that fall apart because of infighting, and I'm not convinced that this game isn't a fairly easy win as well

mac's d2 has arguably been scummier than his d1 and he seems somewhat ~boxed in~ so: [VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

Actually, making my mind up about things:

- I don't think Nutella is mafia, because she defended Jimmay in a way D1 that I don't think she does if she's mafia. She's generally a paranoid player, which I think makes her more inclined to want to be on the "right side of things" when a teammate is gaining a lot of suspicion. I've seen her lean way more in the way of distancing to partners in the past. The way she said that Jimmay being off was overblown is something I'm pretty sure Nutella doesn't say if she knows that Jimmay is mafia. It's not like Jimmay was doing all that much to keep himself in the game, why would a teammate go out of the way like that to save him. It doesn't seem like Nutella imo.

So Nutella is town. What is up with people scum reading there? That's bad imo. Hope I'm right.

I had a similar reasoning with NAA, but I need to double check that.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

All I'm doing is questioning you. If you're actually town, I'd hope you'd see why.


My reads aren't set in stone. You say you're townreading me...but you also say you've not paid any attention to my posts cuz of Mac's green check. These kind of things keep me wondering about your slot.


But I'll give you some space to hunt

@leetic Real talk. What is your problem with me? You don't know me at all. Why did you decide to scum read me? Are you curious about anything?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

All I'm doing is questioning you. If you're actually town, I'd hope you'd see why.


My reads aren't set in stone. You say you're townreading me...but you also say you've not paid any attention to my posts cuz of Mac's green check. These kind of things keep me wondering about your slot.


But I'll give you some space to hunt

What's strange about that? I have limited time and am already overwhelmed. You've been greenchecked, so I'm not prioritising scrutinising your posts, and to be real I don't really trust your judgement. You're voting me and Nutella, and it's wrong. It's unfortunate since you're very likely town. Please read what I wrote about Nutella and tell me why that's the wrong idea.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:29 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

all good, i wasn't trying to call anyone out specifically, more just that i feel like I've seen several games lately that should be easy wins that fall apart because of infighting, and I'm not convinced that this game isn't a fairly easy win as well

mac's d2 has arguably been scummier than his d1 and he seems somewhat ~boxed in~ so: [VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

We're Lovers, so I am opposed to his lynch at this stage

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:46 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

All I'm doing is questioning you. If you're actually town, I'd hope you'd see why.


My reads aren't set in stone. You say you're townreading me...but you also say you've not paid any attention to my posts cuz of Mac's green check. These kind of things keep me wondering about your slot.


But I'll give you some space to hunt

What's strange about that? I have limited time and am already overwhelmed. You've been greenchecked, so I'm not prioritising scrutinising your posts, and to be real I don't really trust your judgement. You're voting me and Nutella, and it's wrong. It's unfortunate since you're very likely town. Please read what I wrote about Nutella and tell me why that's the wrong idea.

I feel nutella defending JJJ is something she would easily do as Maf. Jay was a wagon, but not the only one. It's not unreasonable that D1 nutella would defend a scummate wagon, there's lots of plausibility for not being on his wagon

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:47 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:29 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

all good, i wasn't trying to call anyone out specifically, more just that i feel like I've seen several games lately that should be easy wins that fall apart because of infighting, and I'm not convinced that this game isn't a fairly easy win as well

mac's d2 has arguably been scummier than his d1 and he seems somewhat ~boxed in~ so: [VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

We're Lovers, so I am opposed to his lynch at this stage

if not now, then when? if mac is a wolf then it's not like he's gonna nightkill you, so you being lovers doesn't really prevent me from wanting to kill mac even though it sucks that you have to die too

who else do you wanna kill today besides Nutella BTW?

also can someone please tell me my current postcount?

Has anyone meta dived on Leetic?
How sure are people that Ilario is town?
I thought his post about chopping NAA D1 was towny.

Quickly looking over Leetic and they are probably town. But their interaction with Jimmay was not good. Early weak prod that they seemed to forget about, and the late vote that I noted. But I see they answered my question about it and it seems reasonable enough.

So yeah, probably still town, but bad direction.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:46 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

All I'm doing is questioning you. If you're actually town, I'd hope you'd see why.


My reads aren't set in stone. You say you're townreading me...but you also say you've not paid any attention to my posts cuz of Mac's green check. These kind of things keep me wondering about your slot.


But I'll give you some space to hunt

What's strange about that? I have limited time and am already overwhelmed. You've been greenchecked, so I'm not prioritising scrutinising your posts, and to be real I don't really trust your judgement. You're voting me and Nutella, and it's wrong. It's unfortunate since you're very likely town. Please read what I wrote about Nutella and tell me why that's the wrong idea.

It's odd cuz you're not town READING me, you're just accepting my slot as town. Being upset at my read on you just feels...strange given you're not really giving any thought to my slot. It's not like we've established a lot of common ground together this game and I'm pulling a 180 on ya.


Is Nutella only town to you cuz you don't think she'd defend JJJ if they were teammates? Or has she done towny things, ie solving, that you can point to?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:55 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:47 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:29 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:02 pm this game has honestly gotten really stressful to read - i feel like there's a totally unnecessary amount of super stressed out and frustrated posts at a time when the game is in an objectively good position (and I acknowledge that I've made some similar posts myself)

to be honest I think that we need to suck up whatever infighting or tinfoils we have and just kill someone that is in the POE and needs to die before endgame, I don't really care if it's mac or NAA or w/e as long as we kill someone

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm stressed because I don't know half of what's going on, plus, some of the people I town read (Leetic/Ilario and Falcon) has some of the legit worst takes on me I've seen in a while, and it is very frustrating. Especially since I can't at least feel like I'm on top of the game and offer more of a direction. So it's just a double fail. I'll try to tone down the frustration and focus away from said players.

all good, i wasn't trying to call anyone out specifically, more just that i feel like I've seen several games lately that should be easy wins that fall apart because of infighting, and I'm not convinced that this game isn't a fairly easy win as well

mac's d2 has arguably been scummier than his d1 and he seems somewhat ~boxed in~ so: [VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

We're Lovers, so I am opposed to his lynch at this stage

if not now, then when? if mac is a wolf then it's not like he's gonna nightkill you, so you being lovers doesn't really prevent me from wanting to kill mac even though it sucks that you have to die too

who else do you wanna kill today besides Nutella BTW?

also can someone please tell me my current postcount?

If Mac is town, then Maf will kill us soon. If Mac & I are still alive like let's say D4? Then we should look at lynching him. Not D2

I'm still fine with Anne getting lynched.

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

But nutella claimed roleblocked...

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:14 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:44 am But yeah I decided to vote mac anyways because I’m thinking about the claim some more and their role makes 0 sense to me. So they’re in a chat, and they have a cop check on each other but once they use the check they become lovers?? What’s the point of that dynamic? Why even have the cop check if they’re essentially gonna be tied together, why not start them out as lovers? Idk feels like something mac coulda come up with to protect himself from being voted. I liked that Mac noticed that towny line from naa but then he won’t on to do nothing with it, so meh that might have just been a pocket attempt from mac.

The role works for both Mac & I the same way. The first one of us to check the other makes us lovers, and alerts the Maf it happened. We don't have a check on each other, he has the check on me. It only works 1 way

It's true. He's not making it up. That's the role. That's why I feel Mac will self resolve...either the Maf kill one of us and we both die, or if we're alive near end game

The one disagreement I have with you is wolf Mac would be very dangerous to keep alive near endgame

I have some bad news. I kind of think Esooa is town. They have some posts that are hedgy in a towny was like "I have reason to think this, but then I've experienced being wrong so often" kind of things. I read it as wanting to be correct, but also protecting yourself from being wrong. I also like how they come across in their interaction with Leetic, and I relate to the frustration about having people hate your takes when you've literally trying to take the game in at that very moment.

I'm not very familiar with any "meta" on Esooa, other than she's good as either alignment I guess. But I'd guess town here.

tbf i think it's possible anne could get a result of me like attempting targeting someone even though it didn't go through, idk how tsp does things/dont really get how annes role works

or anne is lying and blocked me sparkleshrug

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:17 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

But nutella claimed roleblocked...

Yeah, I want this cleared up.

@staypositivefriend youre at 211, ftr on mobile you can see it by going to the racket and clicking thread postcount

I know nutella claimed roleblocked, but I still got a result that she visited someone.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:31 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

How did you get to this? Nutella said her action failed.

That's a good point. Although I guess it's possible for nutella to visit someone but still fail? I'm a little confused, but not at the point where I think we need a claim from her.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:07 pm Also, "we should kill from the D1 PoE, anyone from that pool is fine as long as we stop playing mafia"

[...]

"Except this player (Dizzy), I veto this player from the D1 PoE"

Is a pretty scummy take from SPF.

I disagree, I think her voicing a preference is fine


From your PoV, who is in the PoE and who isn't?

And honestly I think I should have still gotten a result of who she visited just reading the role description again, but for some reason I did not so idk

@MacDougall @falcon45ca

- Does your role dictate that mafia will know when you have used the investigation AND that they will know that you become lovers?
- Would you not become lovers if you didn't use the investigate?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:14 pm Also, wtf SPF voting me without knowing how to read me or interacting with me directly (outside of this interaction which I initiated), and complaining about being scum read by someone who "doesn't know how to read her, and who isn't interacting with her directly". This is a comedy skit.

This is funny because I'm also complaining about not being able to read you, but voting for you too.

People are voting me for something that isn't a mechanical contradiction idt unless nutella is lying

Okay Nutella visited NAA

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

Is it targeted or visited?

Not sure how much more I can say

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:41 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

Is it targeted or visited?

It's targeted but isn't that the same thing?

It was a mod error btw I was supposed to get feedback as to who exactly it was

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:42 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:41 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

Is it targeted or visited?

It's targeted but isn't that the same thing?

According to the host, no as even if nutella was roleblocked it would still count as a target but not a visit

Thus, yours and nutella's claims are not incompatible

Okay well Nutella targeted NAA then

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:42 pm It was a mod error btw I was supposed to get feedback as to who exactly it was

Just to be clear. You can submit a list of people, and a target, and you can know if that target visited anyone on that list? And you should receive a "Yes" or "No" as your result?

But in actuality, you received the name of the person nutella targeted/visited, rather than just a simple "Yes" or "No"?


Also, I believe "target" would indicate that is the person who nutella used her night action on, and this would be seen if nutella was roleblocked, but "visited" means she actually went there, and this would not be seen if she was roleblocked.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:47 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:42 pm It was a mod error btw I was supposed to get feedback as to who exactly it was

Just to be clear. You can submit a list of people, and a target, and you can know if that target visited anyone on that list? And you should receive a "Yes" or "No" as your result?

But in actuality, you received the name of the person nutella targeted/visited, rather than just a simple "Yes" or "No"?


Also, I believe "target" would indicate that is the person who nutella used her night action on, and this would be seen if nutella was roleblocked, but "visited" means she actually went there, and this would not be seen if she was roleblocked.

The role is worded confusingly. I received feedback last night that Nutella targeted someone on my list but the host forgot to include the name, thus I thought that the way my role worked was that the host could only tell me if Nutella targeted someone on the list or not. The reason I believed this to be the case is because I don't understand why I would be allowed to submit a list with every single person in the game because then I'm just a tracker pretty much. I said visit because I thought visit and targeting were the same thing, so you're just gonna have to get over that and understand that I have never really played with any roles where the difference between visit and target mattered.

I don't have any scum reads, which is disappoint.

None of these roles makes sense, including mine.

LiGhT rOlE mAdNeS

Like without straight up pasting the role PM in here, the best I can describe it is like "each night you can pick a player and then submit a list of players in the game, if the first player targeted anyone on that list then you will know"

And Nutella left before she could confirm/deny my results which sucks but you're just gonna have to ask her when she's here if she targeted NAA

The following players have already postcapped fwiw:

iaafr
cassandra
NotAnAxehole

And the following players have fewer than 15 posts left:

Dizzy
Esooa
ilario / leetic
Lime Coke
nutella

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 pm Like without straight up pasting the role PM in here, the best I can describe it is like "each night you can pick a player and then submit a list of players in the game, if the first player targeted anyone on that list then you will know"

I think your recent explanation suggest I'm understanding it right, except that I don't know where NAA's name came from. Did you learn that part with your role?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:51 pm I don't have any scum reads, which is disappoint.

towny post

why'd you say "I have some bad news. I kind of think Esooa is town" though

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:56 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 pm Like without straight up pasting the role PM in here, the best I can describe it is like "each night you can pick a player and then submit a list of players in the game, if the first player targeted anyone on that list then you will know"

I think your recent explanation suggest I'm understanding it right, except that I don't know where NAA's name came from. Did you learn that part with your role?

no, it was a mod error. i asked the host if i was supposed to get a name and he said he made an error and told me nutella targeted NAA

i mean YES i did learn that with my role, but what i mean is that i didnt know until recently