The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:44 pm Colin is not a good lynch yet. The odds of DH or RN being Mafia are much higher.

DharmaHelper has a rough, devil-may-care approach to mafia, which makes it easy for someone who hasn't played with him before to peg him as scum. This may be why Alien thought he could drop an easy scum read on DH. But he also ignores DH in the rest of his player read posts. I think DH could be town.

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:44 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:05 pm Here I got one, who is gonna look better and who worse once alien flips?

I’m not sure how much interaction I’ve seen between alien and other players outside of his questions that would indicate alignment

i know this isn't in Alien's ISO, but i actually think this may reflect poorly on sprityo & want some input on it

Alien hadn't flipped at this point, so the only people who knew what he would flip were his teammates. the way that sprityo has this post worded sort of has an implicit red flip in it; even though sprityo doesn't say that alien will flip mafia, the emphasis on alien's questions leans that way. (town Alien's questions wouldn't necessarily indicate much of anything but sincerity on Alien's behalf. there's a possibility that sprityo is referring to responses to questions tho)

MP7 noted that this came pretty shortly before alien's actual flip. could be feeling some pressure to appear involved and like he's progressing the game forward

i'm keeping in mind Jay's point about breaking up me/sprityo as teammates, but i thought i'd make a note of it anyway

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:09 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:58 pm His posts are snarky and lazy, and haven't added much to the game. Does town DH ever coast through to day 2 like this?

He doesn't play very often these days, so it's difficult to peg what he "usually" does. I wouldn't put it past him though to fart around all day in either alignment.

I think it's a bit more concerning though that he has provided this post to suggest directions of inquiry -- but he hasn't done anything himself to pursue those directions.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:33 am Jay, why should i vote DH over Robot today? Or does it really not matter?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:34 am Raise ur hand if ur name is Jay or Mac and you spent Day 2 scumhunting instead of reverting to your easy suspicion of an absentee player



Now Raise ur hand if you think maybe Jay or Mac or Both were forced to buss their teammate after he got completely owned by the thread and have now decided to return to the dumbest case imaginable.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:39 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:34 am Raise ur hand if ur name is Jay or Mac and you spent Day 2 scumhunting instead of reverting to your easy suspicion of an absentee player



Now Raise ur hand if you think maybe Jay or Mac or Both were forced to buss their teammate after he got completely owned by the thread and have now decided to return to the dumbest case imaginable.

You might as well just concede if this is all you're going to do.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:34 amabsentee player

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:42 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:34 amabsentee player

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:49 am Simple truth is I just don't like playing mafia all that much anymore. Just a result of a string of incidents that took the fire out of it for me, and me not really finding anything to put it back. I'll play how I play. I don't really care beyond that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:51 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:49 am Simple truth is I just don't like playing mafia all that much anymore. Just a result of a string of incidents that took the fire out of it for me, and me not really finding anything to put it back. I'll play how I play. I don't really care beyond that.

You certainly don't have to care. I don't blame you.

But that's not why you have two votes.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:53 am Why do I have two votes?

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

I dunno man, seems a little fucky to still be on me after a mafia got lynched D1 and there's all this other shit to be looking at.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:53 am You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:55 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:53 am Why do I have two votes?

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

I dunno man, seems a little fucky to still be on me after a mafia got lynched D1 and there's all this other shit to be looking at.

You can be associated with the dead mafioso based upon the posts we extracted from his corpse and your own posts too. There's at least one gigantic post on the topic.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:56 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:53 am You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

Also, this question is fucking horseshit. You're pretending to be clueless. There's no way you're serious.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:58 am I'm going to stick it all right in your face. If you want to continue running your finger up and down across your lips, be my guest.

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:14 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:47 pm If you're going to lock someone, you might as well do it big.

Damn straight.

If there's one thing I've learned the most over the past few months at Champs, it's that my biggest weakness as a player headed into the tournament, as a townie anyway, was that I doubted myself too much out of fear of being wrong and let myself be persuaded into nonsensical WIFOM arguments inside my own head that not only wasted time but caused myself to look suspicious and clutter up the thread.

No longer. I feel like I've gotten much better at just taking a stance based on gut and analysis, and not only just force myself to do so in good faith and feel good about it, but also do so all the while increasing the accuracy of my reads.

Reassessment is one thing and always can and should happen. That's also something I feel like I've gotten much better at over the last couple of years.

sculder and mully 2k18

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:19 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:04 pm I think my read of Luna is somewhat dependent on Robot actually being scum.

If Robot is scum, then I feel like both Alien and Robot were trying to shade her and were banking on an ML there.

why is Luna's alignment dependent on Robot's? i understand that Robot flipping red would inform the read on Luna, but is it actually dependent on Robot being scum? (i.e., would a town Robot inform the read similarly and change your view on alien potentially shading Luna there?)

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:37 pm

Tsaiah wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:14 pm @abyssum

Hey, Aby--when you reacted with what felt like alarm bells to something of mine at eod, why was that? Like what were you reacting to and how/why, bc i never did get it

i understood more of your mentality when i thought back on it, so this doesn't apply much anymore, but i'll explain it anyway: you seemed sort of...downtrodden? in a way that i don't really expect to see from you, and i didn't understand why

but i was extra confused by you questioning alien on his usage of "town feathers" because that's just the most Tsaiah-esque phrase i've ever heard

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:02 am "Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

DharmaHelper definitely looks the worst to me although there's still room for a town DH universe still. GTH I think the way Alien treated DH with respect to Jay's wall reads like a teammate talking about another teammate. Otherwise their interactions are super uninspiring but could go either way.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:05 am

DharmaHelper definitely looks the worst to me although there's still room for a town DH universe still. GTH I think the way Alien treated DH with respect to Jay's wall reads like a teammate talking about another teammate. Otherwise their interactions are super uninspiring but could go either way.

Fuck me I'm quaking.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:03 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:02 am "Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:13 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:50 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:42 pm Jay, explain to me further what you mean by this:

"I think this whole thing looks vaguely teammate-compatible, but it doesn't scream at me as a red flag. It's a lot of stuff that exists, and the fact that it's abyssum and alien seems more incidental than critical. The dialogue extended here. I don't care for the waffle read though."

Specifically with respect to the point re: incidental versus critical.

alien's biggest reads list came in the form of a huge quoted post featuring abyssum's earlier big reads list. Sandwiched between the two reads lists were alien's responses to and takes on abyssum's reads. I wanted to make note of the fact that the two of them had been glued together in this moment, that alien had used abyssum's thickest content as a springboard to generate his own thickest content. Sometimes I think that sort of thing can be deliberate: teammates working with one another to infuse their most effortful fake posts into the game, because you can always count on your mafia mate to provide that opportunity the way you want it to be provided (should it be discussed behind the scenes).

If that's what happened, then that would represent a "critical" moment tying abyssum and alien together. It would be a serious red flag.

It's also possible that abyssum just posted a reads list, and alien decided on his own that he'd use that one to propel his own reads list. That wouldn't require abyssum's cooperation, rendering the moment "incidental" instead.

If I have to guess at which of those things is closer to our reality, I would guess the incidental version. The critical version is more elaborate and requires more pieces. It's still something to think about though.

man i think i'm in love with you

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:08 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:03 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:02 am "Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

When you said there were big ass posts linking me to Alien and that's why I had two votes, what I thought you meant was there were big ass posts linking me to Alien.

Little did I know what you actually showed me were two big ass posts, one that sort of clears me and the other that almost literally says "He could be alien's teammate but he could also not be, I really don't know", but MP takes 2 million paragraphs to say that.

I dunno man.

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:19 pm

Spoiler: show

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:10 pm Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

(sorry in advance to Alien for the notifications and to the thread at large for the jumping around that will inevitably happen in this ISO; i do nothing sequentially because i'm the worst)

i think this sort of post from Alien has a very high chance of being Alien expressing some irritation/frustration at one of his potential mislynch targets posting in a way that looks townier. i don't think this progression is really unusual for Alien, either

scenario A (where Mac is town): he knows that Mac is posting like town would, and he feels compelled to acknowledge that towniness (because what if other people see it?) but at the same time wants to discredit and dismiss what Mac is saying. scum Alien sees town behavior and acknowledges it, at least from what little i've learned from playing with him. it's almost like the initial suspicion is easy because he can post confidently about it, but as further engagement from town comes around, that confidence is shaken and he starts feeling like he needs to give them points even when scumreading them or discrediting them

scenario B (where Mac is a partner): at a time when both Alien and Mac are wagons and in a position where a lynch is possible, Alien is trying to discredit Mac's lynch plans of a third party (Turnip Head). it's possible that, in a world where Turnip Head is town, Alien is trying to nab some credit if that lynch goes off, because he can point back to the post where he outlined the issues with that sort of lynch (though this relies on a world in which Alien is willing to get some heat on Mac in exchange for Alien's own cred). while i don't think there's a lot of coordination if this is the case, Alien may not be the type to coordinate actions out of the thread.

i don't think that Alien, when talking about Mac as a partner, feels any compulsions to acknowledge when Mac makes a towny post. i also don't think he feels the need to explain and explain about Mac's potential mindset, or why he feels the motivation to do what he's doing, or the ways that his plans can go wrong--unless Mac is actually town. please offer takes on this, especially the people here who have also played with Alien or spectated the games that he played (but anyone is welcome to weigh in).

the interesting thing here is that Alien is talking about Turnip Head (or rather Mac's proposed plan of lynching Turnip Head). this is the second time that Alien has very indirectly defended Turnip Head--the first was with Lunalee, when he used her reads post to call her suspicion on TH insincere & also question the validity of her read on him.

i think that Turnip Head could be town based on scenario A, btw; it could be that Alien is just prone to TMI and happened to TMI the same player twice in two different places. in the unlikely world where Mac/Alien are teamed, i don't think the team is Mac/Alien/Turnip/(mystery slot if there is one).

stray thought: i want to look at posts where Alien directly addresses people instead of addressing the thread or speaking about them in the third person. M Plus 7 Tsaiah RobotNerd277 when Alien was town in G9, did he make the sorts of posts where he would quote somebody and make general statements about them instead of engaging them/using second-person language mostly?

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:21 pm he probably just TMI'd Kyle and Colin too. he didn't really do much to explain his take on the situation, he just said it feels/seems like they're town/town based on their arguing. it was done at a time when Alien started needing town allies as well. this isn't really catastrophic if Alien needs to lynch one of them later down the line either, since it's just an impressions post without much passion behind it. ("not really catastrophic" lends itself well if one of them is scum too though)

if i had to put one of them as the scum partner in that situation, it'd probably be Colin? but Colin has a couple of other good looks independent of that situation

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:10 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:08 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:03 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:02 am "Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

When you said there were big ass posts linking me to Alien and that's why I had two votes, what I thought you meant was there were big ass posts linking me to Alien.

Little did I know what you actually showed me were two big ass posts, one that sort of clears me and the other that almost literally says "He could be alien's teammate but he could also not be, I really don't know", but MP takes 2 million paragraphs to say that.

I dunno man.

Because you don't care about anything apart from discrediting your attackers. It's weak. Get lynched.

abyssum wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:44 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:05 pm Here I got one, who is gonna look better and who worse once alien flips?

I’m not sure how much interaction I’ve seen between alien and other players outside of his questions that would indicate alignment

i know this isn't in Alien's ISO, but i actually think this may reflect poorly on sprityo & want some input on it

Alien hadn't flipped at this point, so the only people who knew what he would flip were his teammates. the way that sprityo has this post worded sort of has an implicit red flip in it; even though sprityo doesn't say that alien will flip mafia, the emphasis on alien's questions leans that way. (town Alien's questions wouldn't necessarily indicate much of anything but sincerity on Alien's behalf. there's a possibility that sprityo is referring to responses to questions tho)

MP7 noted that this came pretty shortly before alien's actual flip. could be feeling some pressure to appear involved and like he's progressing the game forward

i'm keeping in mind Jay's point about breaking up me/sprityo as teammates, but i thought i'd make a note of it anyway

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 am

Spoiler: show

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:54 pm

Also not only is this an awesome thing but I am suddenly realizing it perfectly fits a musical representation of Jaybot the analytical robot just processing posts as matter straight into his brain and then his interactive analyses come out the other end.

MP, we have a music forum..... stop inflating your post count ffs

Hey, it's in OT green, you can't be mad if it's in green!

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:23 am Lol at more DH v. Jay stuff. Like we haven't had enough of that already.

(Thanks for giving me an opportunity to use orange!)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:25 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:23 am Lol at more DH v. Jay stuff. Like we haven't had enough of that already.

(Thanks for giving me an opportunity to use orange!)

What do you think of that stuff?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:27 amRobot first at least?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:28 am Too many players coasting right now. Lame.