The Syndicate

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:39 pm Oh, haven’t voted yet

[VOTE: Dys] aubergine

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:35 pmPAST TENSE AND I NO LONGER THINK SO

I DONT KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THIS WITHOUT HAVING AN ACTUAL SEIZURE AT MY DESK JIMMY

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:45 pmI. Have. A. Fucking. Job.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:45 pm Hi all

I’m not lurking or purposefully not responding, I’m just busy as shit, and don’t know if I will have the proper time to get back and read back what j missed or what was asked.

Where I’m at: quin’s WIFOM at start of phase pushed him over for me and so I’m good where I am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:13 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:59 pm I'm dead serious. I'm not voting you. You can cry about it fi you want to, but I don't think you have a reason to. And you really should be saying the same about me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What do you think are the best indicators in this game of a civilian Dizzy?

My whole play. You also put me out of the PoE. I think I should be out of it. Saying this for your own good, Jimmey. But to list some things:
- I would never make the kills that was made N1 and N2.
I would never eat a ghost pepper, but someone dared me, so I did. Also, Colin could have been behind all of those so this means nothing anyway.
- I would never have an interaction with Colin like I did with a turn in read where the entire process is internal if I was scum with him. That would be entirely unnecessary. And I'm very careful with how I interact with teammates when scum. Generally I'm more "consistent" as scum.
but you were consistent in that the only change of Colin on your list from green to red was when marmot claimed leading into D4, but when he countered you went right back into forest green
- I can not fake a freak out of proportions around the Marmot/Colin claim. That is my indecisiveness and turning angles in my head I can only do as town.
so you’re saying you’re not indecisive as scum?
- If I was scum with Colin, I would have voted him in the end in the Marmot/Colin when that was a stand off, like I did with FZ. I actually did believe it was Marmot after the lynch was decided.
But see, this is the “consistency” I see. You wanted to remain consistent with your civ read of Colin you had leading up to that. Marmot disrupted that, and you remedied it. There was still a chance Colin would not have been lynched, and when he was, I can see a baddie just shrugging and playing up the ‘i still belieeeeve’ card
- Everything. I'm good as scum, but not this good. : p

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:53 pm If I find that Nutella has the amount of fire and sway and swagger and good things I feel in this game in FE, then maybe my mind is open to reconsider.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:18 pm One thing I will say was that when I initially started that "the game is over and blah blah has won" exercise, I opened Dizzy's ISO first.

Then I shut it again, because this felt right to me:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:52 pm Pages 8-9

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 4:04 pm Yeah, having read the case against Jay, I don’t see anything I wouldn’t expect from his town behavior. I don’t see the case on Dizzy and I’d prefer not to vote Floyd, but between those two, if a replacement’s not happening I won’t lose sleep lynching someone not even in the thread.

Colini's posts reads like a scum player who wants to lynch the town player who deserves it the most.
^Someone talk to me about this.

The Day 1 really does look nice. It's just very hard to give a lot of credit for that considering Dizzy discounted everything as "exaggerated" on Night 1.

I kind of get it. I'm pissed myself. This is SO typical me. Having right instincts and then leaving it because I become convinced otherwise. I'm the type of player who can get swayed by other players just insisting they are town. I'm get very affected in general.

I think this is all wasting time.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:33 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pm

Dyslexicon wrote:Just remember what makes me town in the first place. So it's not so hard.

I mean I could say the same thing about me, but I’m not. But since you’re bragging here, enlighten me

No, you can't.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:36 pm Scotty, what is your perception of how Dizzy has handled process of elimination in this phase?

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:02 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:36 pm Scotty, what is your perception of how Dizzy has handled process of elimination in this phase?

The same as the past phase- she got her wish with one of me or Quin getting the boot, and now it’s just waiting around until the other one gets the boot and then game over

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:38 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:56 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:44 pmBut I figured he had a red check on you with how he cane out swinging and I followed it at the time.

If MP has a red check, why would you "rather lynch Colin"?

Stubbornness in me also wanting to be right.
But he never said he had a red check. I thought he might, so I voted you and changed later

I need to talk about the Elohcin incident again, which if I recall correctly was during the same day phase.

Why Elohcin before Colin? You may have answered already, but were here now and talking.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:40 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:39 pm Before then, as you’ve pointed out, he had civ leans. But when the majority of town was out for colin, dizzy amped up her defense of him.

Is this something you've already indicated in your reviews of Dizzy with specific posts?

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:40 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:39 pm Before then, as you’ve pointed out, he had civ leans. But when the majority of town was out for colin, dizzy amped up her defense of him.

Is this something you've already indicated in your reviews of Dizzy with specific posts?

Well, I made this N4:
RE: Colin

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 pm Three of us seem to have nutella as a backup suspect, with different names as the top suspect.

A dedicated review of her is critical. I hope y'all find the time for that alongside your hatred of each other.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:57 pm Scotty, I have nothing to say to your arguments and buts.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:50 pm We have to be the Jay we want to see in the town.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:05 pm Wow I try to be cool and inspirational and/or funny and the thread goes dead come on guys I'm having a slow day at work here

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:47 pm Charlie, can you briefly describe what makes you feel good about Scotty?

There's nothing specific. It's just the overall impression I got after reading nineteen "ISOs" about him. I feel like I've read his life story narrated by people who sensationalize things a little too much (Hi Dizzy).

I think he looks genuine is all.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 11:02 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 10:46 am Mr. Blackmon, I agree that an active player is probably bad. I don’t understand though why you’re inclined to eliminate Marmot from that equation. And what of Colin?

I don't understand why people are inclined to eliminate Marmot.

I like Colin. A lot.

Spoiler: show

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 5:10 pm The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out of Denton:
ColinIsCool

Pale Green Things:
JaggedJimmyJay
Dizzy (+ town)
Kylemii
Charlie Blackmon
Scotty (+ town)

Maybe Sprout Wings:
TheFloyd

Against Pollution:
Marmot (- town)
MP (- town)
Elohcin
Quin (- town)

Damn These Vampires:
wolbre (- town)
lapluie

(+ town) indicates they've gone up in my eyes recently
(- town) indicates they've given me cause to downgrade them
I tried to avoid giving neutral reads on everybody who has posted so a lot of these are not based on any master theories, just where I'm at.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 5:33 pm

Elohcin

I have never played a game to completion with Elohcin and I don't know much about her play. I do know she's been here for a long time, and I assume she and Charlie Blackmon have nothing better to do than talk about Mafia strategies together, so I approach Elohcin with trepidation based on reputation alone. Elohcin doesn't have a lot of posts, and a lot of them mention being busy, or catching up, or what have you. It's clear Elohcin is not attempting to be a "supertown" scum. It's less clear whether she's telling the truth or if she's laying low as a strategy.

She picks a fight with JJJ Day 1. Nothing big there. Later on, we have this post:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 2:55 pm votes Dizzy. Ephraim said so.

Strange, strange, strange. For a townie to make this post, it's an admission of throwing your vote away on somebody you may or may not suspect (we don't know). For a scum to make this post, it instantly attracts heat — so much heat that you sort of think, "There's no way Elohcin is scum if she's playing like that." It would be a gambit, quite frankly, for a scum Elohcin to do that. So what I am wondering is: how likely is that? I don't know the answer. Let's read on, and keep the vote in mind for this post:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 10:24 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:58 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:45 am Good job guys! As I was reading through what was going on, I would have changed to Chou if I were here EoD. But alas, I was hanging out with the family.

I will try to be more active. My heart's just not in it.

Charlie Blackmon can keep your heart. I'll take a read or two instead.

I think you, jay, and dyslexicon seem trustworthy.

What to make of that? No clue.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 10:07 am Okay, days are 48 hours and day ends tonight when means we are a little over halfway done with the day. I am a suspect. I don't remember why. I think I was suspecting wolbre. I don't remember why. I will vote there.

Another vote without admittedly much thought. If this is a schtick, Eloh is fully committed to it and all the heat that it brings. I'll admit that that brings me more into thinking this is all genuine, but I may be more risk averse as a scum than Eloh.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 2:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 11:30 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 11:24 am I think Elo and wolbre are potentially teammate compatible.

What strikes me as notable re: Elo's gameplay since after D1. She said she would have voted Choutas if she was here, but never elaborated upon that even though it was asked of her. Now she's voting for wolbre even though she doesn't "remember". I think she could be exhibiting TMI.

Otherwise, I lean towards a scum Elo and town wolbre.

A town Elo and scum wolbre is possible, I guess, but I'm not feeling it. If wolbre is bad, she's almost certainly bad.

Elohcin did state earlier why she suspected wolbre, because she thought he made the nightkill. So even though she forgot, she did give a reason at least.

My opinion, Elohcin is going through some mafia burnout right now, and is being openly uninvested as a result. Do I think it's alignment indicative? Yes, I do think she's a civilian as a result.

You are a doll. You are exactly correct in everything you say here. Wolbre said he was new to mafia. He was the only one that claimed a newbie when I asked the thread. So, that led to my conclusion of thinking he carried out the first night kill

But the logic here feels exceptionally poor, and like an excuse to justify suspecting wolbre. It's as if she came into the thread and said "Hey, who killed nova?" and wolbre said "I did!"

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 2:28 pm I remember my other thought was that floyd might be a baddie. I am willing to move my vote off wol if the thread has a better lynch candidate, however, only if I am not in a saving-myself situation.

I am also wondering what indicators Eloh has from a person without any posts that they may be a baddie. She explains it with the nightkill choice, but I don't see what activity of members has to do with logic of the kill here.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 8:34 am That lynch really stank. I wasn't around for EoD and If my life wasn't threatened, I could have been convinced to vote elsewhere.

A post like this, imo, kind of stinks. It's washing your hands of the results so you can't be responsible for the lynch of a townie but ... that's not how it happened.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 8:36 am At least I can feel safe from the night kill tonight.

And maybe it's a bias, but stuff like this just makes my sensors go BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP.

Overall, Elohcin's ISO does not give me a lot of confidence in her towniness. It's very possible that she's burnt out and tired and busy, but there are also some fishy choices and arguments independent of any of that stuff that I'm not a fan of.

NOT GREAT, DUDE

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 8:39 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 8:37 am [VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine fornow.

Having just seen her flip in U-Pick with similar play, and the problems I outlined, I’m inclined to agree.

[VOTE: ELOHCIN] aubergine

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 9:24 pm I felt very solid on Eloh for a lynch today but the more I think about it, there’s a big key difference between her U-Pick scumming and here. She tried a gambit there to get away from the lynch and here she just ... hasn’t tried anything.

Hmmm.

The change of heart here was completely unnecessary if Colin is playing on the other team. I don't love the self-congratulatory thing, but I get it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:18 pm One thing I will say was that when I initially started that "the game is over and blah blah has won" exercise, I opened Dizzy's ISO first.

Then I shut it again, because this felt right to me:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:52 pm Pages 8-9

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 4:04 pm Yeah, having read the case against Jay, I don’t see anything I wouldn’t expect from his town behavior. I don’t see the case on Dizzy and I’d prefer not to vote Floyd, but between those two, if a replacement’s not happening I won’t lose sleep lynching someone not even in the thread.

Colini's posts reads like a scum player who wants to lynch the town player who deserves it the most.
^Someone talk to me about this.

The Day 1 really does look nice. It's just very hard to give a lot of credit for that considering Dizzy discounted everything as "exaggerated" on Night 1.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 12:14 am Something fascinating has just happened to me. It has actually happened to me before, but now that I'm noticing it again I am rather intrigued by its effect. What just happened is that I abruptly and confidently called Charlinosis bad, had a back-and-forth with him about it and looked at his ISO to explore my suspicion, and I came out just now deciding that I town read him. Actually pretty dang strongly at the moment. I guess it's just that it took the motive of looking for suspicious things (but again needing to have not too much confirmation bias for this to work) in order for me to actually go into his ISO and realize that I saw most of it in a pretty good light. It was partially the ISO and partially his responses in the moment that convinced me to change my view.

The strange thing, however, is that the other time I am thinking of that a similar thing happened was with Elohcin in U-Pick, and she turned out to be bad. Granted, my confidence on her civ-ness didn't stay very strong; I'll just have to wait and see what happens with Charlie Brown here but I hope I am not similarly fooled. At the moment I am feeling confident enough that his ISO looks civ that I believe this is a quite different situation from what happened with Elohcin in the other game.

Perhaps I should try to do this with other players and see if it works. If I go in assuming they're bad, and I come out of an ISO unable to sustain that, I'm on my way to a foolproof PoE.

Anyway, Epi isn't bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:05 pm
I am not the most suspicious player in this game.

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:34 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:42 am Epi can’t really be serious in voting for JJJ, can he?

You can't really be serious that in LyLo, you're not even paying mind to the possibility that I should be lynched, can you?

The same goes for Dizzy two-fold. One thing I agree with Scotty about is that eliminating both nutella and I from the pool is both convenient and self-serving.

I’ve mulled it around, but jjj if you’re bad, then you bussed choutas and futzed with the Colin EoD when you didn’t have to. At this point, I’m going to throw in the towel if you’re bad. You’re working so hard to solve the game and it shows.

But for Dys to come into Day 5 with ‘jjj AND nut are civ as fuck’ is quite proclamatory. I agreed with her on you but nut’s explanation wasn’t fleshed out at all

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:11 pm My interactions with Colin are not pretty butterflies and pixie dust. If I were to remove myself from myself and do an interactive analysis of Colin and JJJ, I would find things worth questioning. That's just the truth. I acknowledge that.

And that's why I am baffled that two people are counting me out of the POE right now. Scotty hasn't worried about me in any serious capacity at all in this game. Dizzy's concerns have come in direct response to my own suspicions of them (I'm from another planet), and they dissipated soon thereafter. How the hell can I, or can anyone without special circumstances in their favor, be getting a free pass on Day 6 when the game will be decided on the lynch?

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:23 pm Under the circumstances, I feel that process of elimination is more important than it usually would be in the typical heist game because we don't have the luxury of assessing players relative to each alignment flip. With that in mind, perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone to try to spell out why each remaining player could be read as a civilian.

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:20 pm Reasons why each player can be a civ:

Alpha - Has been the most active player, hasn't seemed disingenuous in their efforts, doesn't look like a teammate of Echo to me

Charlie - Sincere appearance at face value, consistently involved, is inquisitive and seems to have discernible direction in their effort, received opportunistic vote on Day 1 from Echo

Delta - Only suspicion stated apart from Echo was for Foxtrot, who was just killed. One cannot suggest there was an effort to set up a lynch there.

Golf - Seemed sincere when protesting Alpha's comments about people complaining about game mechanics and when answering questions/accusations

Hotel - Unafraid of providing reads without concern for the challenge of the setup or having fully caught up.

Juliet - Jumped into the rap gimmick after India's proposal of using a style which is harder for the disguiser to mimick, is making an effort to answer accusations

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:22 pm Rough order for how confident I felt typing those things, from least to most:

Juliet
Delta
Golf
Charlie
Hotel
Alpha

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:26 pm I'll be out the rest of the night. If I drop dead, please fill my shoes as much as time permits by working out any and all potential evidence which exists in this thread. The game is winnable, and wouldn't it be a really cool achievement to win this thing as a civilian?

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:50 am[snip]

I think we're forced to make a judgment call here, and any decision is going to come with a degree of risk. That's the nature of this no-reveals setup. We cannot know for sure where we stand, but we still have to act according to the theories we develop. We treat the game probabalistically rather than deterministically. So the theory I feel the most confident about is as follows:

- Echo was bad.
- Juliet was bad.
- There is one living baddie.
- Delta is a prime candidate. After that, Juliet and Echo interactions and behavioral interpretation at face value take precedence. Based on where we stand right now with recent discussion in tow, my first guess after Delta would be Hotel. Continual dialogue and reassessment will be necessary through the finish.

I'm going to place a vote for Delta. I encourage you all to keep talking it out and I will try my best to get here early enough to engage it in real-time before the deadline.

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:15 pm

Hotel wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:28 pm Think about it. Alpha and Golf up in here freaking out over the direction of the lynch. Bravo has been in cruise control mode. If there's only one baddie, it's him, and he's content to let us bring each other down.

Gross.

I don't know how you can really believe that I have been in "cruise control mode" given the work I have done to investigate every angle. And when I had the chance today, I observed the discussion at hand between Alpha and Golf and stated my perspectives on it. This reeks of opportunism to take advantage of my inability to be deeply involved this phase.

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:51 pm [quotes snipped]

Golf, you have voiced some strongly worded civilian reads on me in recent memory. It isn't clear why you feel what way. Please tell me what has brought you to this conclusion.

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:03 am Golf, if you are a civilian I would urge you to please keep a level head, as best as you can, and talk through everything with me. It's not me, and I have put a lot into this thing to try to figure it all out. Getting a civ win in this game would feel like one of my better achievements as a player considering the challenge of having no flips and the slow pace to boot, and my efforts in this thread should bear out my desire to see that happen.

I am always listening and my decision is not final.

Soulkeeper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:20 pm Reasons why each player can be a civ:

Alpha - Has been the most active player, hasn't seemed disingenuous in their efforts, doesn't look like a teammate of Echo to me

Charlie - Sincere appearance at face value, consistently involved, is inquisitive and seems to have discernible direction in their effort, received opportunistic vote on Day 1 from Echo

Delta - Only suspicion stated apart from Echo was for Foxtrot, who was just killed. One cannot suggest there was an effort to set up a lynch there.

Golf - Seemed sincere when protesting Alpha's comments about people complaining about game mechanics and when answering questions/accusations

Hotel - Unafraid of providing reads without concern for the challenge of the setup or having fully caught up.

Juliet - Jumped into the rap gimmick after India's proposal of using a style which is harder for the disguiser to mimick, is making an effort to answer accusations

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:40 pm huh what's your point?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 4:52 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 4:32 pm As of right now, I can see why JJJ has the most votes (even though it's only 2). His excuses for not carrying the thread don't feel genuine. He is participating enough in another game he is in.

If you feel that carrying the thread is important, why don't you give it a try?

I'm not doing it. If it's on me every game, then we're going to lose and it will be a mafia cakewalk.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 8:08 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 7:20 pm The game just started.

I'm not talking about G-Man's Easter Mafia.

I am talking about Mafia.

All of it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 8:37 pm ColinIsCool
Kylemii
M Plus 7
novaselinenever
Scotty

Dyslexicon
TheFloyd73

wolbre04
Quin
MacDougall
lapluie
Elohcin
Choutas

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 8:38 pm I forgot Epignosis. Call him yellow.