If you suspect me then build a case and stop wasting my time.
Mountain Mafia [END]
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- Kylemii
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
No. I'm going to leave you to it. Carry on.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:16 pmIf you suspect me then build a case and stop wasting my time.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Very well.
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- Kylemii
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
No like I'm actually pretty sure you could improve your critical thinking skills if you studied symbolic logic a little. You wouldn't fall into circular logic traps and stuff like that as much. I'm not even joking.
In any case from now on whenever I have to explain anything to you that you should reasonably already know as an English teacher you're going to owe me $50 of out of state tuition for for every hour I have to spend responding to you.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
This is to be expected.
Townie Jack's favorite song is "If I'm bad, who are my teammates?"
That's the refrain. The verses go "I don't know" and "I look for scum in a vacuum for some reason."
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
You called an analogy a metaphor.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:23 pmNo like I'm actually pretty sure you could improve your critical thinking skills if you studied symbolic logic a little. You wouldn't fall into circular logic traps and stuff like that as much. I'm not even joking.
In any case from now on whenever I have to explain anything to you that you should reasonably already know as an English teacher you're going to owe me $50 of out of state tuition for for every hour I have to spend responding to you.
Fuck outta here.
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- Elohcin
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Mafia is difficult for me. Epi, when you asked me what I think of Jack, it was like trying to do a look-and-find in my brain, tbh. There are so many players, so many components, so much of not knowing where to place who. It's like when you cook in the kitchen and every ingredient is left out after usage. Dirty pots and pans everywhere and utinsils all over the place. When I go into the kitchen to plate the food, I have to find the lid to each container and put everything away, fill the dw with the dirty dishes and clean off the counter tops even before I can plate the food. If I don't, my brain is overwhelmed by the disorganization and I cannot think straight to plate all the components for each person. Jack is like the lid to the oregano seasoning in a sea of kitchen disarray. This is my view of mafia and why it's so difficult for me.
Banners are cool, but a pain to scroll through so...
I've won a lot of games. I've hosted some games. The end.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Sloonei, I'm going to have to get back to you on Bob case details. It's a pain to seperate things on mobile and so should reread for context.
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
And this is a simile.Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:29 pm Mafia is difficult for me. Epi, when you asked me what I think of Jack, it was like trying to do a look-and-find in my brain, tbh. There are so many players, so many components, so much of not knowing where to place who. It's like when you cook in the kitchen and every ingredient is left out after usage. Dirty pots and pans everywhere and utinsils all over the place. When I go into the kitchen to plate the food, I have to find the lid to each container and put everything away, fill the dw with the dirty dishes and clean off the counter tops even before I can plate the food. If I don't, my brain is overwhelmed by the disorganization and I cannot think straight to plate all the components for each person. Jack is like the lid to the oregano seasoning in a sea of kitchen disarray. This is my view of mafia and why it's so difficult for me.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
lol I'm not sure how I feel about being read as an oregano seasoning lid.
- Kylemii
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
The difference between an analogy and a metaphor is negligible as long as you knew what I meant, which you clearly did. The sole purpose for language is to communicate ideas and concepts so mission accomplished.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:26 pmYou called an analogy a metaphor.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:23 pmNo like I'm actually pretty sure you could improve your critical thinking skills if you studied symbolic logic a little. You wouldn't fall into circular logic traps and stuff like that as much. I'm not even joking.
In any case from now on whenever I have to explain anything to you that you should reasonably already know as an English teacher you're going to owe me $50 of out of state tuition for for every hour I have to spend responding to you.
Fuck outta here.
I never said I was a good teacher. I'm just telling you the arrangement. If you're going to waste any more of my time with semantics discussions I should get something out of it right?
It's just how things are now, sorry I don't make the rules.
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Your acceptance that words mean whatever people think they mean as long as they can assume the person whom they are communicating to will understand them is one reason people are such shitty communicators anymore.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:34 pmThe difference between an analogy and a metaphor is negligible as long as you knew what I meant, which you clearly did. The sole purpose for language is to communicate ideas and concepts so mission accomplished.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:26 pmYou called an analogy a metaphor.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:23 pmNo like I'm actually pretty sure you could improve your critical thinking skills if you studied symbolic logic a little. You wouldn't fall into circular logic traps and stuff like that as much. I'm not even joking.
In any case from now on whenever I have to explain anything to you that you should reasonably already know as an English teacher you're going to owe me $50 of out of state tuition for for every hour I have to spend responding to you.
Fuck outta here.
I never said I was a good teacher. I'm just telling you the arrangement. If you're going to waste any more of my time with semantics discussions I should get something out of it right?
It's just how things are now, sorry I don't make the rules.
If you studied prescriptivism and descriptivism, that's really, really, funny.

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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
I really don't want to have this argument againEpignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:40 pmYour acceptance that words mean whatever people think they mean as long as they can assume the person whom they are communicating to will understand them is one reason people are such shitty communicators anymore.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:34 pmThe difference between an analogy and a metaphor is negligible as long as you knew what I meant, which you clearly did. The sole purpose for language is to communicate ideas and concepts so mission accomplished.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:26 pmYou called an analogy a metaphor.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:23 pmNo like I'm actually pretty sure you could improve your critical thinking skills if you studied symbolic logic a little. You wouldn't fall into circular logic traps and stuff like that as much. I'm not even joking.
In any case from now on whenever I have to explain anything to you that you should reasonably already know as an English teacher you're going to owe me $50 of out of state tuition for for every hour I have to spend responding to you.
Fuck outta here.
I never said I was a good teacher. I'm just telling you the arrangement. If you're going to waste any more of my time with semantics discussions I should get something out of it right?
It's just how things are now, sorry I don't make the rules.
If you studied prescriptivism and descriptivism, that's really, really, funny.![]()

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- Jackofhearts2005
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Epi's reasoning is double plus ungood.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
(Note to self: Stop antagonizing people.)
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
hey guess what? Every single word in the dictionary was invented by a person. Words change constantly because society changes constantly alongside our means of communication. The reason you think otherwise is because your livelihood depends on the rigid nature of language in professional and academic settings remaining that way.
You see, the joke was that I literally did make that rule.If you studied prescriptivism and descriptivism, that's really, really, funny.![]()
If you speak to me on this topic again I will ignore it. It's boring and has nothing to do with mafia.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Also, before we put this to bed I want to let you know that you've been needlessly insulting, and I don't really appreciate it. I hope we can move forward with you trying to murder me in a more mannerly fashion....
Because if we can't then I'm going to misuse commas in every post I make to you until one of us dies.
Because if we can't then I'm going to misuse commas in every post I make to you until one of us dies.
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Words weren't invented by a person. You are so ignorant on the origin of language it kills me. Literally. It literally kills me. It literally kills me so much, I'm literally using literally wrong.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
And I have found you insulting toward me.Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:33 pm Also, before we put this to bed I want to let you know that you've been needlessly insulting, and I don't really appreciate it. I hope we can move forward with you trying to murder me in a more mannerly fashion....
Because if we can't then I'm going to misuse commas in every post I make to you until one of us dies.
We can move on.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
My issue with Kylemii began with his lynching of Mesk over Dom due to his perspective that lynching the former would provide information that a lynching of the latter would not. I disagreed with this perspective. To me, lynching because you are trying to get clues as to what to do next is poor strategy at best, and a sign that you are evil at worst.
My issue with Kylemii continued with the way he pursued a speedchuck lynch, but went to a 3J lynch toward the end of the Day.
I've commented at length regarding both of these things, but the discussion became a linguistic debate.
I would rather others comment on Kylemii, his perspective, and his votes. Were they genuine or phony? I lean the latter.
My issue with Kylemii continued with the way he pursued a speedchuck lynch, but went to a 3J lynch toward the end of the Day.
I've commented at length regarding both of these things, but the discussion became a linguistic debate.
I would rather others comment on Kylemii, his perspective, and his votes. Were they genuine or phony? I lean the latter.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Oh that's right I forgot that words were gifted to us by the unfathomable Elder God's
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
I've had reasons to read Kyle as either alignment at various points. More recently I've liked the work he's doing to dig through Jay's posts. I didn't look closely at his vote and behavior diring Day 4.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
You weren't joking about those grammatical mistakes to piss me off, were you?

For real, I don't want to fuss about this. This isn't the place to debate this shit. That's the truth. It's probably more annoying than the jackasses on here arguing about which Pokemon is the best.
It's Lugia, bitches.
I do believe our conversation got out of hand, and I'm going to step back. You are someone I value, even if we may not agree on things.
I also believe I have solid grievances against you in the context of Mafia.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
already explained. Mesk was my suspect originally, at that time Dom was just a random non-poster that some other people had talked about a little bit.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:45 pm My issue with Kylemii began with his lynching of Mesk over Dom due to his perspective that lynching the former would provide information that a lynching of the latter would not. I disagreed with this perspective. To me, lynching because you are trying to get clues as to what to do next is poor strategy at best, and a sign that you are evil at worst.
I guess following your unique language rules my argument for lynching Mesk over Dom would be that there would have been more inferences to draw from the result had it been Mesk and not Dom because Mesk was more of a discussion topic. All other matters being equal.
I reviewed all lynch options for that day equally.My issue with Kylemii continued with the way he pursued a speedchuck lynch, but went to a 3J lynch toward the end of the Day.
The linguistic debate was a separate discussionI've commented at length regarding both of these things, but the discussion became a linguistic debate.
Until recently I was pretty sure it was a joke discussion because I thought you were making bad points on purpose, and posting pictures of rockstars as if it was a real response.
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
To be fair, I posted a picture of Edgar Winter only to show the silliness in stating there are only three eye colors. Albinos can have red eyes. 

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- Jackofhearts2005
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Re: Mountain Mafia [DAY 1]
[mention]Epignosis[/mention]
You were in the thick of this. What are your thoughts?
You were in the thick of this. What are your thoughts?
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:06 pmNot how I saw it. Epi and I started to pressure Jay long before Mesk emerged as a target ("long before" relative to the EoD pace). I pressured Jay to vote for the "player he was most suspicious of" and he chose Elohcin. Epi, nutella, myself, and I think somebody else all voted for Jay sometime during all of this. Dom faded to the background and was all but dropped as a suspect.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:50 pmThe highlight of the Mesk lynch was Epi and Jimmy butting heads over which of the two to lynch. Jimmy ended up looking really bad over this and did not look really bad prior.Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:47 amI just gave one of my reasons for reading Mal as town in the first of my three consecutive posts above.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:38 amWhy do you disagree?Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:02 amI agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:05 amSloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.
What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."
This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.
Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.
That screams "scumbuddies" to me.
Why was Jimmy after Mesk so hard if a townie Mal lynch would have been just as good for him?
I think you're exaggerating Jay's role in the Mesk lynch. I could be misremembering, but as I recall he was largely a follower on the bandwagon. He said more about Mesk than others, but only because we were making him talk the most. He seized the Mesk wagon because it existed. He was saving himself, not Dom.
He absolutely pushed for Mesk to die over Mal, not himself.
Quin then came in to present Mesk as a candidate. Jay seized on that, and Epi questioned him on this vote, drawing Dom as a comparable candidate and one who Jay had expressed more reasons in-thread to lynch. The argument over Dom/Mesk between Epi and Jay was about Jay's inconsistencies with regards to Mesk, rather than any alleged protection of Dom. Epi was backing him into a corner based on his Mesk vote. Jay was swinging wildly to justify voting for Mesk because that's what Epi was questioning him on and he had to say something that might seem plausible. He didn't.
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
I'm going to leave Kylemii alone to let him do his thing. I think we tangled enough and got off on a damn tangent, and I respect his resoluteness even if we disagree on certain things. I do want to hear other people's opinions about my grievances though.
Moving on.
Moving on.
Somebody read this whole exchange. Now look at the below:Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:07 pmDrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:47 pmYou right. Idk what made me think you agreed with it. Bad feeling about LC absolved.![]()
The hell?JaggedJimmyJa
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Re: Mountain Mafia [DAY 4]
How I'm feeling about 80% of the "analysis" surrounding JJJ.colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:10 pmThis post is a massive ball of WIFOM and I'm not sure why you'd even try to analyze it.Spoiler: show
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
You're right. Not about the Pokemon thing but you're right about the other stuff. cus it's definitely Volcarona I mean it's not even a contest....For real, I don't want to fuss about this. This isn't the place to debate this shit. That's the truth. It's probably more annoying than the jackasses on here arguing about which Pokemon is the best.
It's Lugia, bitches.
I love you too! <3333I do believe our conversation got out of hand, and I'm going to step back. You are someone I value, even if we may not agree on things.
and like.... I don't even necessarily think it's a bad thing that you think about things differently than I do, I have trouble reading things empathically sometimes, with tone or whatever and you were able to see Jay's scumminess long before I was able to.
I know you do, and I honestly believe that you're a civilian in this game, because of the aforementioned inductive logic (actually... maybe it was deductive I forgot which one is which) and that bums me out because I'm good too.I also believe I have solid grievances against you in the context of Mafia.
I get why you might think that because I've just sort of been floating along but.... The game JUSt got interesting and I don't want to die yet. I want to live so I can have fun solving things instead of being dead. You can't have fun while you're dead. You can only decompose and turn into a sweet skeleton.
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
To Jack:
My immediate instinct after JJJ got lynched was to lynch Dom's replacement next (sorry, "Dom's replacement" is easier to write than having to go back and see what the replacement's username is).
I agree with your view. It was my own: Why would 3J say Mesk was good, Dom was bad, say he'd vote Dom if there were moments left in the Day, but then ultimately ended up voting Mesk?
However, two things have given me pause here:
First, I believe Sloonei is good, and he is holding up a finger.
Second,
Wait a minute.
My immediate instinct after JJJ got lynched was to lynch Dom's replacement next (sorry, "Dom's replacement" is easier to write than having to go back and see what the replacement's username is).
I agree with your view. It was my own: Why would 3J say Mesk was good, Dom was bad, say he'd vote Dom if there were moments left in the Day, but then ultimately ended up voting Mesk?
However, two things have given me pause here:
First, I believe Sloonei is good, and he is holding up a finger.
Second,
Wait a minute.

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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Well, hell.
I hosted the damn game and had to go back and look.
My thought was that malakim2099 was faking the "janitor" thing because he played in Street Fighter and was bad. I don't reveal the identities of the killed my games usually, but Street Fighter was an exception, and that was the only game of mine malakim2099 ever played in.
Therefore:
Second, malakim2099 looked genuinely confused at there not being a Night kill reveal.
I hosted the damn game and had to go back and look.
My thought was that malakim2099 was faking the "janitor" thing because he played in Street Fighter and was bad. I don't reveal the identities of the killed my games usually, but Street Fighter was an exception, and that was the only game of mine malakim2099 ever played in.
Therefore:
Second, malakim2099 looked genuinely confused at there not being a Night kill reveal.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Do you think this is alignment indicative?Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:21 pm Well, hell.
I hosted the damn game and had to go back and look.
My thought was that malakim2099 was faking the "janitor" thing because he played in Street Fighter and was bad. I don't reveal the identities of the killed my games usually, but Street Fighter was an exception, and that was the only game of mine malakim2099 ever played in.
Therefore:
Second, malakim2099 looked genuinely confused at there not being a Night kill reveal.
I do not.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Nonmillenials are bad at using technology. Here, I fixed it.dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:31 pmLink doesn't workElohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:22 pmWhy yes. Yes, I do. www.facebook.com/LittleMissCakesNCspeedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:51 pmI just realized that you probably actually do make cakes.![]()
![]()
https://m.facebook.com/LittleMissCakesNC
Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
I suppose not.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:32 pmDo you think this is alignment indicative?Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:21 pm Well, hell.
I hosted the damn game and had to go back and look.
My thought was that malakim2099 was faking the "janitor" thing because he played in Street Fighter and was bad. I don't reveal the identities of the killed my games usually, but Street Fighter was an exception, and that was the only game of mine malakim2099 ever played in.
Therefore:
Second, malakim2099 looked genuinely confused at there not being a Night kill reveal.
I do not.
That said, I would like to hear more from malakim2099 in light of 3J's lynch before taking him down. The worst thing going against him is something an evildoer did.
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Man, next time I'm bad, I'm gonna push really hard to save random people and make vague weak cases against several people too. Wine for everyone!
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Do what you must. There's no way I'm voting for you tomorrow.

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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Yyyyyeeeeaaahhhhh. LC is currently number one most likely to get my vote tomorrow.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:11 pm I'm going to leave Kylemii alone to let him do his thing. I think we tangled enough and got off on a damn tangent, and I respect his resoluteness even if we disagree on certain things. I do want to hear other people's opinions about my grievances though.
Moving on.
Somebody read this whole exchange. Now look at the below:Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:07 pmDrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:47 pmYou right. Idk what made me think you agreed with it. Bad feeling about LC absolved.![]()
The hell?JaggedJimmyJa
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
The problem is that I drink wine. Lots of wine. I am aJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:44 pm Man, next time I'm bad, I'm gonna push really hard to save random people and make vague weak cases against several people too. Wine for everyone!

It is a legitimate strategy. I do it. Can you not consider that 3J is smart enough to pretend to save Dom?
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Yeah, I changed to JJJ in the last couple of minutes of that lynch. Wilgy called me an early adopter of the JJJ suspicion, which wasn't true.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:11 pm I'm going to leave Kylemii alone to let him do his thing. I think we tangled enough and got off on a damn tangent, and I respect his resoluteness even if we disagree on certain things. I do want to hear other people's opinions about my grievances though.
Moving on.
Somebody read this whole exchange. Now look at the below:Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:07 pmDrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:47 pmYou right. Idk what made me think you agreed with it. Bad feeling about LC absolved.![]()
The hell?JaggedJimmyJa
3
18%
Voters: Epignosis, nutella, Long Con

- Long Con
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
You are correct that Wilgy said "early," but you didn't include that word:
"I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate? "
That's categorical. Why didn't you recall suspecting 3J, or why did you forget suspecting him?
"I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate? "
That's categorical. Why didn't you recall suspecting 3J, or why did you forget suspecting him?
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- nutella
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
...Actually, in your words, you didn't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion... at all. You didn't specify "early" as what you were denying. But you voted for JJJ on day 3 when I encouraged people to switch to him at the end, and yet you never said anything about suspecting JJJ before or after that and you voted for speed on day 4. Something's not adding up here.
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- Long Con
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Well, I never campaigned to get JJJ lynched; he wasn't a suspect of mine. I voted for him in the last few minutes because I liked it better in the end than the vote-for-low-poster choice (Dom/Mesk).

- Long Con
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
What's not adding up? I cast a vote for the guy because I preferred it... based mostly on what Epi was saying as I recall.nutella wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:56 pm...Actually, in your words, you didn't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion... at all. You didn't specify "early" as what you were denying. But you voted for JJJ on day 3 when I encouraged people to switch to him at the end, and yet you never said anything about suspecting JJJ before or after that and you voted for speed on day 4. Something's not adding up here.

Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
nutella and I mind melding is weird.
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- nutella
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Re: Mountain Mafia [DAY 3]
Let's take a look at LC's day 3 game of "around-the-world"

Linki: Oh, you didn't like the idea of voting for dom or mesk after all, huh? So much for that "inspiration"
....Ok man

Linki: Oh, you didn't like the idea of voting for dom or mesk after all, huh? So much for that "inspiration"
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- Kylemii
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
but that's not what you said
statement lacks time frame
linki oh.
- Long Con
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Re: Mountain Mafia [DAY 3]
Do you really want me to respond to the inspiration thing? 'Cause you aren't understanding it.

- colonialbob
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Dear mafia, if you kill one of kyle/Epi i promise to try to get the other lynched so we don't have to read any more academic dick-measuring kthx
- Kylemii
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Re: Mountain Mafia [NIGHT 4]
Chill. Epi and I are cool now.colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:00 am Dear mafia, if you kill one of kyle/Epi i promise to try to get the other lynched so we don't have to read any more academic dick-measuring kthx