Mountain Mafia [END]

[dunya]

I voted for speedchuck to make reactions happen. I can't read him right now and wanted to talk about him.
I voted for Wilgy because I liked chuck's respinse. I still think Jay coukd have been putting distance between himself and teammate wilgy.
I voted for Jay because he was bad. Jack is tinfoiling hard against me.

Bullshit.

You were waffley. "I don't know what's going on."

Wilgy is not w/w with all the other baddies. Why would they push Wilgy early and stay there if he was their teammate? Why not just bus Jimmy?

I'd be more likely to believe you had a nervous tick that caused you to place bad votes than this.

Okay, go ahead. I don't feel like defending myself over this. I started the day 3 push against Jay but bailed to Mesk because I felt bad about it on a personal level. I was on Jay for the entire day yesterday except for a 2 hour stretch where my confidence wavered a little bit and I wanted to check the pulse of the thread. Then I went back to Jay because he was my clear cut top suspect. If you want to actually read my posts I think you can trace how my thoughts developed over time. I doubt myself a lot. I can't help it. I'm not going to apologize for that.

I believe you about Jay, Sloonei. Empathy united.

[colonialbob]

Sloonei did you move back to JJJ before or after I did?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I voted for speedchuck to make reactions happen. I can't read him right now and wanted to talk about him.
I voted for Wilgy because I liked chuck's respinse. I still think Jay coukd have been putting distance between himself and teammate wilgy.
I voted for Jay because he was bad. Jack is tinfoiling hard against me.

Bullshit.

You were waffley. "I don't know what's going on."

Wilgy is not w/w with all the other baddies. Why would they push Wilgy early and stay there if he was their teammate? Why not just bus Jimmy?

I'd be more likely to believe you had a nervous tick that caused you to place bad votes than this.

He was also probably the second-biggest "JJJ is bad" voice behind Epi.

Yet he saved Jimmy once and attempted to do it a second time.

Sloonei is bad. (Along with the other four of his two teammates).

[Sloonei]

Sloonei did you move back to JJJ before or after I did?

I don't know. I was the 5th or 6th vote on him.
Initially I was the first.

[Sloonei]

I voted for speedchuck to make reactions happen. I can't read him right now and wanted to talk about him.
I voted for Wilgy because I liked chuck's respinse. I still think Jay coukd have been putting distance between himself and teammate wilgy.
I voted for Jay because he was bad. Jack is tinfoiling hard against me.

Bullshit.

You were waffley. "I don't know what's going on."

Wilgy is not w/w with all the other baddies. Why would they push Wilgy early and stay there if he was their teammate? Why not just bus Jimmy?

I'd be more likely to believe you had a nervous tick that caused you to place bad votes than this.

He was also probably the second-biggest "JJJ is bad" voice behind Epi.

Yet he saved Jimmy once and attempted to do it a second time.

Sloonei is bad. (Along with the other four of his two teammates).

Are we gonna try to lynch me again?

[Sloonei]

I voted for speedchuck to make reactions happen. I can't read him right now and wanted to talk about him.
I voted for Wilgy because I liked chuck's respinse. I still think Jay coukd have been putting distance between himself and teammate wilgy.
I voted for Jay because he was bad. Jack is tinfoiling hard against me.

Bullshit.

You were waffley. "I don't know what's going on."

Wilgy is not w/w with all the other baddies. Why would they push Wilgy early and stay there if he was their teammate? Why not just bus Jimmy?

I'd be more likely to believe you had a nervous tick that caused you to place bad votes than this.

Okay, go ahead. I don't feel like defending myself over this. I started the day 3 push against Jay but bailed to Mesk because I felt bad about it on a personal level. I was on Jay for the entire day yesterday except for a 2 hour stretch where my confidence wavered a little bit and I wanted to check the pulse of the thread. Then I went back to Jay because he was my clear cut top suspect. If you want to actually read my posts I think you can trace how my thoughts developed over time. I doubt myself a lot. I can't help it. I'm not going to apologize for that.

I believe you about Jay, Sloonei. Empathy united.

He's not an easy man to lynch.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Well, I freely admit to being suckered.

Though I will say when you lynch me tomorrow you are gonna be very disappointed.

And yeah, I don't know if there's a term for getting suckered into playing defense but that's how I feel atm.

Stop whining about votes that haven't even been made and start hunting scum.

...

Fuck you. I am.

Sorry I don't mean to be rude to you. I have nothing against you personally. But you are not gonna accomplish anything if you spend the game complaining about how we are treating you unfairly and not waiting for you to come back and not giving you time to read the thread and whatnot.

Its Night 4. We need to read you. Your slot was part of a 3-way lynch that ended up killing a confirmed civ and saving a confirmed bad. We need to figure out where you stand in that, and the only way to do that is reading your posts and figuring out if you are helping or not.

So if you need more time, it's fine. Its just a game. Nobody will be mad and we understand you are a replacement. But don't ask us to stop trying to read your alignment while we wait for you. We will do that whether you are caught up or not.

[Sloonei]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I voted for speedchuck to make reactions happen. I can't read him right now and wanted to talk about him.
I voted for Wilgy because I liked chuck's respinse. I still think Jay coukd have been putting distance between himself and teammate wilgy.
I voted for Jay because he was bad. Jack is tinfoiling hard against me.

Bullshit.

You were waffley. "I don't know what's going on."

Wilgy is not w/w with all the other baddies. Why would they push Wilgy early and stay there if he was their teammate? Why not just bus Jimmy?

I'd be more likely to believe you had a nervous tick that caused you to place bad votes than this.

He was also probably the second-biggest "JJJ is bad" voice behind Epi.

Yet he saved Jimmy once and attempted to do it a second time.

Sloonei is bad. (Along with the other four of his two teammates).

Are we gonna try to lynch me again?

You got time.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Lol I speak too soon sometimes. What about Quin?

[Sloonei]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Lol I speak too soon sometimes. What about Quin?

I've liked quin's tone for most of the game. I think his behavior has been "questionable" in a lot of the same ways as mine, but I believe I can see why he's doing the things that he's doing. He has his own methods of hunting.

Quin and Jay are the players I know best on the Syndicate. As such I can usually tone read them within the first day or two with decent confidence. Quin has fooled me before.

[colonialbob]

Sloonei did you move back to JJJ before or after I did?

I don't know. I was the 5th or 6th vote on him.
Initially I was the first.

Yeah I'm trying to figure out who was already there before me. I think you were 5th because I saw you, Epi, and nutella and liked that a lot more than jack, mal, kyle. Meaning it was DDL, speed, Epi, nutella, you on JJJ vs Eloh, Mal, LC, Jack, Kyle, myself on speed when I switched.

[Sloonei]

I think Jay would have preferred that his teammates bus him yesterday, and this information definitely would have been communicated to them. Not emphatically, but enough to put some space between themselves. He would have urged his teammates not to put themselves in the line of fire to save him, unless they're playing the game purely for WIFOM points.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei did you move back to JJJ before or after I did?

I don't know. I was the 5th or 6th vote on him.
Initially I was the first.

Yeah I'm trying to figure out who was already there before me. I think you were 5th because I saw you, Epi, and nutella and liked that a lot more than jack, mal, kyle. Meaning it was DDL, speed, Epi, nutella, you on JJJ vs Eloh, Mal, LC, Jack, Kyle, myself on speed when I switched.

Oh right, yeah i remember you commenting that you liked the Jay voters best and felt a twinge of pride because that included me.

[Long Con]

Good job, Civs! Hopefully this will lead to total game solving.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Lol I speak too soon sometimes. What about Quin?

I've liked quin's tone for most of the game. I think his behavior has been "questionable" in a lot of the same ways as mine, but I believe I can see why he's doing the things that he's doing. He has his own methods of hunting.

Quin and Jay are the players I know best on the Syndicate. As such I can usually tone read them within the first day or two with decent confidence. Quin has fooled me before.

So you're not bad but you saved Jimmy, who was.

And you're saying you're unwilling to vote for the two players most likely to be bad with Jay, the two players who would be your teammates if you were bad?

Sloonei. My birthday isn't until July.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Bob voted Jay before Sloonei ftr.

[Sloonei]

Bob voted Jay before Sloonei ftr.

how do you figure?

[Sloonei]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Lol I speak too soon sometimes. What about Quin?

I've liked quin's tone for most of the game. I think his behavior has been "questionable" in a lot of the same ways as mine, but I believe I can see why he's doing the things that he's doing. He has his own methods of hunting.

Quin and Jay are the players I know best on the Syndicate. As such I can usually tone read them within the first day or two with decent confidence. Quin has fooled me before.

So you're not bad but you saved Jimmy, who was.

And you're saying you're unwilling to vote for the two players most likely to be bad with Jay, the two players who would be your teammates if you were bad?

Sloonei. My birthday isn't until July.

I think Jay would have preferred that his teammates bus him yesterday, and this information definitely would have been communicated to them. Not emphatically, but enough to put some space between themselves. He would have urged his teammates not to put themselves in the line of fire to save him, unless they're playing the game purely for WIFOM points.

Jay's nightmare scenario yesterday was having his teammates try to save him.

[colonialbob]

Thoughts before I'm out the rest of the day:
I'm almost positive one of the people who voted JJJ after me is mafia. Tinfoiling Jack real hard right now for this push on Sloonei.

Lean town on dunya. I think teammate JJJ is smart enough to not be the only vote on somebody with her.

One of Eloh/mal/LC is also likely mafia. Don't need to elaborate on the first two, Jack/LC feel slightly w/w but the D1 agreement is over the top if so.

[colonialbob]

Also feel pretty good about everybody on JJJ before me, although speed gets the least bump up because self-preservation. Still he's not atop my suspect list any longer.

You know what I'm doing with JJJ's ISOs? Totally ignoring them. Way too WIFOMy for me to get any real info.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[Jackofhearts2005]

That's aimed at Sloonei btw.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Imo knowing Speed's alignment would break this game open but I'm not lynching him just for that.

Mal goes first. Then probably Quin.

I'm focused on Sloonei but don't mistake him for my top baddie read.

[Sloonei]

That's aimed at Sloonei btw.

I am not exaggerating when I say the number of games Jay and I have played together is probably in the triple digits at this point. I know how he plays. You can listen to me or you can continue to tinfoil me and lynch me for the second time this game.

town reading jack, btw.

[Sloonei]

Imo knowing Speed's alignment would break this game open but I'm not lynching him just for that.

Mal goes first. Then probably Quin.

I'm focused on Sloonei but don't mistake him for my top baddie read.

why malakim?

[DrWilgy]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Not wanting to pull off the band-aid?

Good job everyone.

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

[Long Con]

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate?

[speedchuck]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

Also feel pretty good about everybody on JJJ before me, although speed gets the least bump up because self-preservation. Still he's not atop my suspect list any longer.

You know what I'm doing with JJJ's ISOs? Totally ignoring them. Way too WIFOMy for me to get any real info.

Fair enough. At 1 AM last night, that's what my vote was for. Though I was glad that it was Jay instead of Wilgy.

Cbob and DDL are probably bigger townreads for me than most of the playerbase. And now I feel justified in not going back and making a case on Cbob. All is right with the world.

[Sloonei]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

[DrWilgy]

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate?

Lemme double cherck.

[Long Con]

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate?

Lemme double cherck.

Chercking is what happens when a jerk checks. jk

[DrWilgy]

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate?

Lemme double cherck.

Chercking is what happens when a jerk checks. jk

You right. Idk what made me think you agreed with it. Bad feeling about LC absolved.

[Jackofhearts2005]

That's aimed at Sloonei btw.

I am not exaggerating when I say the number of games Jay and I have played together is probably in the triple digits at this point. I know how he plays. You can listen to me or you can continue to tinfoil me and lynch me for the second time this game.

town reading jack, btw.

Actually, let me go take a look at the almost Sloonei lynch (calling votes should be a requirement).

[speedchuck]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

And things didn't go his way. Votes ended up on Malakim, on me, on Wilgy. Votes ended up back on JJJ. I think it's likely that one of those was scum, and that the momentum went that way before JJJ could stop it. That, combined with the previous day (and my knowledge about my own role) points to malakim.

But you still didn't answer my question.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Imo knowing Speed's alignment would break this game open but I'm not lynching him just for that.

Mal goes first. Then probably Quin.

I'm focused on Sloonei but don't mistake him for my top baddie read.

why malakim?

The main case on Jimmy was that he didn't suspect Mesk but voted to save DoMalakim. Why would a scum player save a townie at the cost of making himself look so bad he got lynched?

If Amal wasn't Jimmy's teammate, we would have lynched Dom instead of Mesk.

[Sloonei]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

And things didn't go his way. Votes ended up on Malakim, on me, on Wilgy. Votes ended up back on JJJ. I think it's likely that one of those was scum, and that the momentum went that way before JJJ could stop it. That, combined with the previous day (and my knowledge about my own role) points to malakim.

But you still didn't answer my question.

i'm currently working on an answer in a separate post.

[Sloonei]

Imo knowing Speed's alignment would break this game open but I'm not lynching him just for that.

Mal goes first. Then probably Quin.

I'm focused on Sloonei but don't mistake him for my top baddie read.

why malakim?

The main case on Jimmy was that he didn't suspect Mesk but voted to save DoMalakim. Why would a scum player save a townie at the cost of making himself look so bad he got lynched?

If Amal wasn't Jimmy's teammate, we would have lynched Dom instead of Mesk.

I do not see it that way. The votes had shifted a number of times between the moment of Dom's lead in the poll and the moment of Mesk's emergence as a candidate. Prior to the Mesk wagon beginning, Elohcin and Jay were the leading candidates, at least in terms of momentum in the thread if not also in the poll (I don't remember exactly where all the votes were). Dom was old news by the time Mesk was lynched.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

[Long Con]

What do we think of LC? He was early to adopt the J3 suspicion last cycle but voted Speed. I recall thinking he was bad previous and now something isn't sitting right.

I don't recall adopting the JJJ suspicion. Are you sure your memories of that are accurate?

Lemme double cherck.

Chercking is what happens when a jerk checks. jk

You right. Idk what made me think you agreed with it. Bad feeling about LC absolved.

[dunya]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

I don't think DDL and Jack have as much experience with scum Jay. How many times has completed a scum game on here? (I don't count the SF game since he got replaced Day 1)

[Sloonei]

Interactive J-reads

Spoiler: show

Reads puke

Kylemii is a civilian read for his full body of work – it parallels Pirates in a way I closely observed as a host, wherein he was willing to engage every dialogue and seemed loose in doing so. I also followed his mafia-aligned game on sc2 and he was visibly less comfortable – it showed in his posting rate and especially in crunch time.

Epignosis has employed a transparent POE approach which I think recalls recent civilian games of his wherein he has accepted the power of the strategy. This was visible quickly in the positive Mesk read which earned the ire of some and contributed to the Long Con feud, and it is visible again in the immediate aftermath of the failed lynch. He went through a lot of trouble to clear nutella, something that I think he has little reason to do if he is mafia and she is a civilian. Nobody is going to fault him if he doesn’t do that; indeed I don’t know that the conclusions he drew were immediately evident to others anyway. This means the Epi-as-mafia case becomes more contingent upon nutella also being mafia. I agree with the reasoning he provided though to give her civilian credit.

The mere fact that another instance Long Con/Epignosis Day 1 combat has taken place right after Pirates does concern me some. Long Con initiated the kerfuffle, and my immediate reaction was to wonder if it's an attempt to squeeze into those meta pajamas he sewed for himself in the prior game. At face value I don't care for the way it started:

Spoiler: show

He's buddying them, and then intimidating you out of an adversarial position. He's setting up a long game. That's not what Civ Epignosis cares to do.

The notion that Epignosis was "setting up a long game" on Day 0 strikes me as bogus. Combine the appearance of a fake accusation with the meta pajamas and there's reason for concern. One can view it as a maneuver to motivate content generation, or just to develop an early read on a difficult player (Epignosis) -- I don't get that impression from the continuing | progression. They look like accusations meant to pursue an actual lynch, corroborated by Long Con himself in response to Epi's assertion that it may be personal.


At face value I thought Jack looked good. His handling of a particular Sloonei/Quin exchange spoke to me:

Spoiler: show

Quin

Cause this post. I don't think Sloonei posts this if you are teammates together.

ima vote epignosis whenever and i'd like someone to tell me why that is

He's making friends right off the bat.

I like this because it features a conscious disconnection of two others, based upon reasoning that I think is agreeable. It wasn't frivolous civilian reads or otherwise in the pocketing style I'd expect from an evil-doer. It's a dissociation which did not need to be made, and only benefits mafia Jack if each of the others (Sloonei and Quin) is also mafia. That's a huge ball of tinfoil to swallow.

Quin has made a bunch of posts and I cannot recall feeling much from any of them. Reminder to self to investigate.

A few DDL posts bug me:

Spoiler: show

I don't like this Epi lynch. Feels like there's a bunch of scum surrounding him like vultures waiting to see if they can lynch him or not. Lots of people "kind of" wanting to vote for him.

Gimme names. This kind of external, detached commentary doesn't do much to dissuade the lynch option being criticized.

Spoiler: show

Voting Sloonei, I agree on the point about fence sitting.

Sloonei did sit on the fence with regard to Epignosis, but he didn't exactly try to mask that:

Spoiler: show

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

This post might as well have a flashing neon sign that says "free waffles". DDL hopping on with that accusation is a rather easy move.

Spoiler: show

I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.

I appreciate that this read exists, but I don't know what motivates it. Tell me more about the argument about ties and why you hate it and why that reflects this way on Kyle/Jack. This is a serious request, I am not entirely clearly on that argument myself yet.

Spoiler: show

sloonei
nutella
LC

There, just looked at the thread and listed the people.

Now imma go back to catch up.

This was in response to a prod by Sloonei to expand on his grievance with the Epignosis voters I mentioned earlier. The addition of names is good, but it's unclear what the reader should be doing with them. It's typically not such a chore to get this sort of content from DDL given that he thrives on pressure as a civilian.

~~~

More puke later.

I am hesitant to submit anything in this post as evidence. All of this puke is presumably stuff that he came up with prior to his entry into the game, so I take it to not be alignment-indicative. I wouldn't be surprised if he had this all typed up before even looking at his rolecard. If pressed to say something, I'd argue that his LC stance could be some very early distancing between partners. That's a relationship I'm inclined to keep an eye on as I work through this.

Spoiler: show

Everyone should tell me what things in this thread you feel are most important/most warrant my attention and discussion among those I didn't just address.

I'd be interested in thoughts on me/jack/LC. Also the vote swapping from Epi to Nutella

I actually was just looking at your ISO. The long exchange you had with Jack at least looked dissociative (if that wasn't a word before it is now) -- I don't think you look like tiny mountains together. That point has limited value at present with no flips but whatever it came to mind.

I am less perturbed by your early poop fling at Sloonei than I was with DDL given that yours came first and it didn't last. I suggested in my puke that I think Jack looks good, at least for the point I raised. Could you summarize your suspicion of him for me? I raised concerns with LC separately, mostly relating to his dealings with Epignosis.

Also I am not entirely clear on everything that transpired with regard to vote movement. I'll need some help on that before I can offer much insight, otherwise I'll see you after I check myself.

"I actually was just looking at your ISO." It's worth pointing out that Jay would go on to reverse his stance on bob's "early poop fling" at me during his Day 4 ISOs. Jay was definitely going for wifom all day yesterday, and distance is better than closeness for him. I'll be keeping a tab on Jay and the Colonel now too. I think he would have been more inclined to angle for civilian lynches upon his entry, but as soon as he was put on the hot seat, Jay started to want to leave no trail between his teammates and himself. This complete 180 on Bob's early behavior is something that catches my eye, as is his spinning the early parts of a case against DDL in the same post. Good look for the Dragon, bad for the Bob.

JJJ is bad for buddying me.

I wish we had one of those shit emojis.

lol. epi's good and nailed it right here.

Spoiler: show

Good puke Jay. I quite enjoyed the "meta pajamas" analogy. I also found your assessment of Jack to have merit and will keep that in mind as I sort out how I feel about him. And I agree with your funky vibes from DDL; even given that he's been posting while catching up, a lot of his posts have felt vague and directionless.

Tell me how you feel about all of the players whose usernames begin with S: sig, Sloonei, Spacedaisy, speedchuck, and sprityo.

Without having done the deep digging yet that I'd like to do, I can spare some gut takes:

sig as a civilian pirate was more engaged and effortful in the high-octane Day 1 aboard the pirate ship than he was in this high-octane Day 1. Bad vibes.

Sloonei's thing about the eyeroll emoji amused me, and I don't know that I'd expect that flippant response to an accusation from Darth Sloonei. Good vibes.

Spacedaisy appears at a glance to be Doing Work. She has engaged numerous dialogues with an assertive tone, and is bringing the Big Posts. We don't always see this level of motivation from Annie. Good vibes.

speedchuck was willing to engage suspects pointedly, and he cut down his suspect pool with transparent civilian reads (or at least pledges not to lynch). I also like the tone he exhibited in his handling of the Epi/LC feud. Good vibes.

sprityo's posts don't offer much in the way of original contribution. Reads exist here but I don't follow their origins, and there's some piggy-backing happening. That's not ideal. Bad vibes.

nutella asks for reads on all the s-names. He paints sig negatively for being absent. I could go either way on that, but my gut tells me that's a good look for sig. I think Jay was careful not to get my attention one way or another in this game. It started with a soft favorable read here. I think he gave daisy a good read because it was impossible not to. He makes a direct observation about speedchuck and marks it as a good one. I don't know what to make of this now, but I'm noting it exists. I think sprityo/dunya was Jay's early scapegoat, and I bought into it. It started here. A very easy target to spin a mislynch against. I'll call this a good look for dunya.

A lynch of a low poster has the most merit in a scenario wherein the high posters read each other mostly as civilians -- it's POE. In this scenario I think it's a reasonable option, as the one notable "high poster" suspicion I have to offer is Long Con. I'm with family for turkey time today but ought to be able to investigate ideal low-poster options later.

Linkipalooza

Here he is after setting up sig and sprit as viable candidates a few posts earlier, now setting up the premise of voting a low-poster as viable. Extending my good vobes on sig and dunya. I'm a bit more cautious with those vibes on sig of the two, because he's been the more absent and he didn't end up receiving Jay's full attention. That could be a legitimate bus job.

I have no reason to read sprityo as a civilian.

Yup.

Craps out a "default suspect" read on Dom/malakim mid-Day 2. I'm not disinclined to believe that there is a low-poster on the scum team, but each time Jay names one of them as a suspect I feel better about that player. He surely would have been willing to bus any of these folks, though. This read is noteworthy because he went through the trouble of researching past games in order to present it. That's a lot of effort to spin a teammate as bad when he doesn't need to.

I have no reason to read sig as a civilian.

This is the most substantive post in his history, and it's a bit of a hedge with regard to Epi and LC. He's positioned to do whatever he wants with regard to that feud.

For some reason that I'm struggling to articulate, I feel like sig is the black sheep in this batch of low-posting suspects. Jay went after sprit the hardest, and his effort on the Dom post above also suggests an active desire to induce suspicion in the thread. Sig was a name he regularly mentioned, but I don't recall ever seeing a concerted effort to lynch him like the others. Just lame prods like this one.

There then ensues a conversation between Jay and sprit in which Jay continually tries to bury sprit in the case against him. I've already cited this exchange as a key part of my suspicion against Jay and I won't rehash it here for the sake of neatness. sprit/dunya is a town read for me.

Spoiler: show

DDL's response to my grievances is a moving one. The specificity of the parallel drawn here, based on what happened in Turf Wars, when I was similar to a replacement (joining the game at Day 5), and led an erroneous lynch on him inspires (hi Quin) me to reconsider. It's not especially important that I was wrong then, but it's important that DDL remembered this incident and recollected it with such earnestness here. I believe him when he says he wants to stop me from doing that to him again, and I also grant that my meta perception of him (a civilian who thrives on pressure) could be out of date. I don't think the two of us have really played many games together since that first meeting in Economics. I don't endorse his lynch.

I had the same reaction to DDL's post. I think Jay's hands were tied here. That emotional response from DDL is too authentic to be read as suspicious, and Jay knows it. I saw some evidence that he was trying to worm his way into suspecting DDL earlier, but that goes out the window here. Townie points for DDL.

I've moved to Sloonei. He's not ticking the boxes that I feel should be ticked. This is the time where Sloonei should be spamming the hell out of this thread to both prove himself and set-up legacy reads, but I get a very lackluster feel from these recent posts.

That's fair. With two hours remaining and a tally lead I would expect more fire. What's up with dat Sloonbeard?

He backs Quin's "Sloonei isn't here" argument late in Day 2. I was not here. That's not fair. Don't know what to make of Quin's involvement in this exchange. I think this is more of Jay trying to avoid my attention. He's trying to figure out why I have votes while putting soft defenses on me, but he's not working too hard to prevent the lynch from happening. I don't know what to make of Quin's involvement in this exchange.

Spoiler: show

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

Indirect defense of me by way of supporting my case against Elohcin. I think the strength with which Jay would go on to pursue an Eloh lynch looks good for her. I described her as "low hanging fruit" at the time and I stand by that assessment. He was trying to lynch a player who very few people are confident about.

Spoiler: show

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

Let's ask Sloonei:

Spoiler: show

Putting a vote on sprityo because I want to hear from him. I'm going out for a bit, will be back before the deadline.

Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Uh-huh.

You negated my BTSC theory, but I still see in-thread evidence that coild to against her. In the absence of strong suspects, I'm not eliminating her from suspicion.

In the absence of strong suspects, I can get behind the idea of lynchig a low poster.

It appears the influence Epi had over his vote switch relates to content separate from Elohcin's rainbow list -- instead it relates to the meta discussion pertaining to her behavior when she has BTSC. This strikes me as consistent with the notion that she could still warrant a vote given the other reasons Sloonei's stated suspicion exists.

Engaged with colonialbob regarding his suspicion of me. There's not a whole lot for me to read here. Others might get more out of this post since I am the subject of it, but to me this is clearly more of Jay trying to avoid provoking me without doing anything to seriously impede my lynch. Again, I'm unsure what to make of colonialbob's involvement here, but he remains a person of interest for the reason I mentioned earlier in this post.

Then follows a string of posts about sprityo, all unfavorable. Sticking to my town read there. Jay's just trying to bury an easy lynch target.

Spoiler: show

Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.

Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.

This has been the fastest-paced side mission I've ever seen here. The only competition that comes to mind at the moment is Economics, and I believe that had 48 hour days. This environment is a challenging one for a mafia team to handle, and with that in mind I believe there's a better chance of finding them among the low-posters than there would be in some other randomly selected game. Consider the present wagons, that dynamic, and sprityo's recent conduct in this thread and I think it's the best decision right now.

I'm not fully on board with Sloonei as town. I don't care. This is EOD, and the point is to make the best vote I can make. I think there's more reason to view him as a civilian than there is for sprityo. I think there's more reason to view Jack as a civilian too.

This interaction will be more enlightening when I take a closer look at the other side of it, but for now I'll note it here as another fluffy exchange between Jay and colonialbob. This is I believe the third instance of the two of them exchanging thoughts without much in the way of critical examination of one another. Jay is poking at bob's case against me, but without really making any observations about bob in the process. Bob is starting to prod Jay on his thinking near the deadline. I'll have to see how he followed up on this in his larger body of work later.

Spoiler: show

Alternative theory:

Switching to Sprityo. At time of posting, I've read like none of his content (cause he had none when I left) so that sounds better than lynching Sloonei.

Whyyyyyyyyyyyy

I firmly believe Sloonei is good. He feels good. He's been thinking and he's working.

Tell me why you think he's bad.

Ugh. This night. Now to go see why I was almost lynched.

On the off chance of vote shenanigans...


Nutella, Sloonei, Jimmy, Bob, Quin good.

Epi bad. DDL maybe bad. Daisy maybe bad but only if Epi is.

Everyone else mostly null.

Do people use legacy reads? I feel like these get ignored.

The first post came just before the poll deadline, and the next two came after -- but before Marmot posted the [non]results.

Focus on the latter two posts. The highlighted portions suggest a player who does not anticipate being lynched despite being tied for the tally lead. Sloonei also projected a no-lynch as Spacedaisy has observed with "lynching me will be a waste of time". Neither of these two seemed to be very concerned about dying. One can assert that Jack's projection of survival barring vote shenanigans is evidence of the influence of Sutter Buttes, but then I have to question if he would say that. The poll was tied. Sloonei dying would have appeared to be the result of a coin flip; there's no need to make one's own mafia-driven voting advantage public before the results are revealed. If it's a civilian-driven advantage though (i.e. Everest)? Sure.

The first post above I also brought out to consider the notion that Jack stopped the lynch instead, given that he was firmly good on Sloonei. That'd give him a motive to put a stop to a tied lynch featuring a firm civilian read and himself at the gallows. This one is more difficult to believe though given the third quoted post -- "vote shenanigans" shouldn't matter to someone who is about to stop a lynch. This notion would require some semantic gymnastics.

Summarizing the theory:

~ Civilian Sloonei stopped the lynch/wasn't lynchable
~ Civilian Jack expected to survive because of his double vote

Other possibilities which are applicable – Matterhorn is somehow involved / Olympus Mons is somehow involved. Their “secrets” can be pretty much anything, and a lynch survival for OM especially wouldn’t surprise me.

Gimme those delicious thoughts.

A big long theory centered around Jack's behavior at the EoD2. This feels like GenericObservationalJimmyJay. I don't read much into Jack here and I maintain the town read that I have on him entering this exercise.

@JaggedJimmyJay Am I getting an ISO? You said you needed to look at me more closely.

Thanks for the reminder, bae. I'll get to it. For the moment I think you look alright -- I appreciate the reversal on Sloonei when he put up the colonialbob case.

Quin wants to be ISO'd, Jay promises to get to it. These two would be a juicy scum pairing, and I think they'd embrace the chance to be a crafty duo in the thread. Ordinarily I'd read this sort of interaction as not being indicative of scum partners, but with these two I could see them deliberately putting this association out in the open for the sake of distance.

Spoiler: show

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

More GenericJimmyJay. I continue to struggle to read these interactions with colonialbob. At least here Jay gives the appearance of critically analyzing him.

Spoiler: show

@colonialbob I happen to disagree with most every D2 read you've posted, so I'm [retty sure I'd read you scum if I ISO'd you. The lack of defense you're getting in this is kinda disturbing.

I mean, sloon had a good argument, but everyone's just like 'sure' so far and we townies haven't been uniform on anything all game.

Does anyone think Cbob is town? Why?

I wouldn't label bob a town read. Question for you: what do you mean to imply with the highlighted comment?

Spacedaisy seems way more town than normal.

Quin seems consistent wit his cc123 performance. ???

I have no sig opinion yet

What is the purpose of this post?

A two-parter. The first part features his first stance one way or the other on bob, and it's "not a town read". This came after my big case on bob. Jay seems to have readily accepted my angle without hesitation. I could go either way on Bob here, and I wish I'd pressured Jay for a more in depth read here.

The second part of this post looks good for speedchuck, IMO. He gives a few short reads and Jay wonders what purpose the serve. I think their purpose is self-evident. Looks like he's reaching to smear speedchuck.

If Sloonei is about to stop (possibly) his own lynch, he doesn't spam out the thread right before EoD. Yes/No?

I would expect to see a concerted effort from Sloonei to lynch someone else so that the lynch stop doesn't have to be used -- more than just self-defense spam if that's what you mean. I would say that Sloonei pushed for a sprityo lynch at the very end.

I just want to note here that I could sense the gears turning in Quin's head as he tried to read me. For that, I give him town points. But I'm still hesitant to read these interactions with Jay as being anti-teammate indicative. I could see them conspiring to put a conversation like this into the thread. This is tinfoil though.

Out of left field, here's a small wilgy ISO. Jay comes out of it with an unfavorable view of the doctor. I've noted that I could see this relationship being a bus job, but I do not have to see it that way. It is difficult to determine one way or another from this post. wilgy was a background candidate at this point, and one who's always easy to pin a suspicion to. For that he could be another low-hanging fruit that Jay is trying to pick. I don't remember any substantial pressure mounting against wilgy in the aftermath of this.

Spoiler: show

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

I don't expect anyone to make any massive posts. I like and encourage massive posts, but I have not demanded them. I have said that in a game that moves this quickly, a pace you acknowledge in this post, that a mafia team is more challenged to keep up than they typically would be. This presents a condition wherein, if my premise is accepted, low-posters would be more likely to flip mafia than they would in most other [slower-paced] games. Do you disagree with this premise?

It must be stated that simply "lynch a low-poster" is not adequate for a day's dialogue. Assess everyone as always, and if it is a low-poster who is lynched, ensure that it's an educated choice based upon whatever content does exist among them.

The tone of this post is much more cordial than his interactions with sprit earlier. Granted, we're not in the middle of a tightly contested lynch at this point, but Jay appears much more forgiving of sig's absence and frustration at being named a suspect than he was with sprit. If sprit/dunya is a town read, I remain inclined to label sig as a scum read on the opposite end of that spectrum. Jay's pressure of sig feels like token suspicion, not an earnest effort to gather votes.

I completely agree with everything Jay said in his ISO of Quin. That terrifies me. Possible he was hoping to pocket Quin, or at least avoid rustling his feathers. Or it's possible they're teammates and this is a super slick move. Still, when I have to make a decision on Quin, I find that my suspicion of him depends upon leaping down multiple rabbit holes. To read him as town, I just have to look at his posts and find them agreeable, which I do.

Spoiler: show

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)

Describe the bold voting position that you feel is more likely to come from a civilian in this scenario. What does that look like?

Jay and Bob continue to talk about me even though I'm pretty sure they'd both come out on my side at this point (maybe? it's unclear to me when exactly bob reversed his position). Knowing that this whole exchange is more or less frivolous from Jay's perspective, I'm also forced to wonder about it from Bob's. Could be similar to my tinfoil theory about Jay and Quin above, wherein they pump the thread full of faux-authentic (fauxthentic) discussion so as to appear un-aligned. But, again, tinfoil. This would involve less tinfoil, though, as Jay and Bob have a pre-established topic of discussion (yo) to center their conversation around.

I'm gonna post this now and continue in another post, just for the sake of getting it out there and for my increasing worry that I'm gonna experience a technical glitch and lose all of this at some point.

I'm only halfway through this exercise, but at this moment the three names I'm most inclined to put forth as potential teammates of Jay's are: Long Con, sig, and colonialbob.

The player who is definitely town based on these interactions is: Epignosis.

[Sloonei]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

I don't think DDL and Jack have as much experience with scum Jay. How many times has completed a scum game on here? (I don't count the SF game since he got replaced Day 1)

I'm not sure. This is the first time Jay and I have been aligned opposite each other since RYM. The only other scum game of his I've witnessed on The Syndicate was Street Fighter, when we were partners for all of 24 hours.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm still not voting for malakim any time soon.

Who would you want to vote for if you could right now? Because this page is just you taking Jay's most likely teammates and throwing them in the trash.

That's because the line of thinking is backwards here. I can't stress this enough: Jay would have preferred to be bussed rather than saved yesterday.

I don't think DDL and Jack have as much experience with scum Jay. How many times has completed a scum game on here? (I don't count the SF game since he got replaced Day 1)

This is the first time I ever see scum jay.

I feel a sense of accomplishment.

[Sloonei]

Spoiler: show

LC raised a point in his ISO of/case against speedchuck that caught my attention, and I'd like to expand upon it:

(Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)

(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)

This post is problematic. It came on Day 1 when the Epi/LC feud was still the most significant dialogue in the thread. I've used colors to separate the important components. Green is meant to be portrayed as a sort of preliminary disclaimer which is qualified (and reversed) by what follows, but its utility in this post is sufficient to cancel out what follows. Consider the climate of the thread at the time -- Long Con and Epignosis are both fielding suspicion from varying sources, with the former taking the majority of it as the day approached its conclusion. speedchuck's post is supportive of Long Con, but with that disclaimer attached its capacity to change the minds of LC voters is minimized. This is evidenced in the responses that followed from Quin and colonialbob at least. The latter even liked speedchuck in that moment and still voted in opposition to the orange-colored text above.

It should be stated that speedchuck qualified himself in more certain terms sans-disclaimer the next day:

Spoiler: show

(Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)

(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)

LC would not have, as scum, taken one of the danciest, hardest-to-lynch targets and formed a stupid argument to try and lynch him. My meta on LC says this sincere, earnest, and suicidal lynchlust comes from a town headspace.

And seriously, who would target Epi as their easy D1 lynch?

Motive-wise, it makes zero sense for LC to be scum outside of tinfoil land.

I'd have liked this more had it come before the near-lynch of LC was finalized instead of in the following phase. I'll also add that this proposed problem may be reliant upon LC being a civilian, as the dynamic changes in a mafia-mafia scenario.

I'll come out and say this now: my read on speedchuck has been hinging on Jay's alignment, and this post was a key part of that. when I started to suspect Jay, I saw this as potentially being a highly opportunistic stab at a player around whom there is a lot of uncertainty. Then I started to wonder if it was a ballsy bus job. At this moment, I'm leaning toward the former. There's uncertainty around speedchuck, but no substantial case. This looks like Jay trying to generate that elusive case, and his argument is not one that I was buying at the time.
I'll also note that this is being based off of LC's investigative work, but I don't know what to do with that information at the moment.

Spoiler: show

Daisy responds and he just drops it? This looks like something I would do if I were bad. Quin tries to get something on daisy. Can't. Gives up. And as he now feels daisy will not be taken to an easy lynch, he asks her opinion on sig. Which really, he should know her thoughts if he had been reading her posts. And if he hadn't, this only confirms his original "suspicion" of her is made up.

My top suspects for day 3 are quin and chuck so far.

Post is snipped for brevity, here's the whole thing

Elohcin, your grievance with Quin here is contingent upon his handling of Spacedaisy. Following the interaction Quin had with Sloonei that you discussed in this same post, Daisy's handling of sig (re: Jack) was the core of the dialogue. In that regard, it would seem to me that a focused question about sig to Spacedaisy makes plenty of sense. Indeed, the highlighted portion here is an assertion that Quin didn't actually read her posts because he asked about sig, but the exchange above this in the same post displays Quin talking about Spacedaisy's read on sig. Please talk about that.

Also please talk about this

Here's where he starts his big push against Elohcin. This one has low-hanging fruit written all over it. I'm a bit troubled that I get the same exact vibe here as I did from his push against speedchuck above. These posts came at roughly the same time. Is it likely that Jay made a concerted effort to smear two relatively easy town targets at the same time? I'm not sure and would like feedback on this (as if anyone's bothering to read all of this). I definitely don't think that Elohcin and speedchuck are both little mountains. One of them could be, but not both. Jay doesn't go out of his way to generate suspicion against two teammates at once.

Spoiler: show

Excuse me? I clarified myself much, much earlier. If you really ISO'd me, you'd know that I have at least four five posts after your quoted post (and before EOD) that clarified LC as a townread. Not to mention that, in my opinion, the first post I made there clarifies LC as a townread. The purpose of the 'disclaimer' is to explain why I was voting for him before that post.

This is blatant misrepresentation. Some day 1 posts for you:

Spoiler: show

I think the Epi train was formed out of nothing, and from now on, I'm going to pick two peeps not to lynch on D1 of every game and announce it to the world just to prove it.

BTW, not lynching Jack or Quin today

Might be less than random now, IDGAF

Lynch Epi or Nutella of the current options I guess. Jack I want to keep around (this is not the first game I've said this in [Might have been scum in the other game, don't remember]).

I really don't think LC is like this as scum.

(Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)

(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)

you telling me lc wouldn't argue with epi just for the shits an' giggles?

As scum? I'm not entirely sure, but I'd lean "no."

what about the other way around? if epi was bad.

If LC is town and Epi bad?

It's possible. LC would have basically cornered Epi out of luck, but it's more likely than LC being scum I think

(Basically I would think LC is scum but following such a stupid argument if he didn't genuinely see something in Epi is suicidal)

(And that's a town meta read on LC for me)

you telling me lc wouldn't argue with epi just for the shits an' giggles?

As scum? I'm not entirely sure, but I'd lean "no."

I'm happy we're no longer focusing on one candidate anymore but I don't understand why LC has 3 votes.

I don't get it either

I don't understand how today's discussion came to a point where our 2 lynch options are LC and Nutella, I haven't seen a case made against LC

Yeah, even Epi would be a better vote than LC.

"Blatant misrepresentation"

Quin hates "inspired" as an overused Mafia word. I'll take "misrepresentation".

I saw your posts, and my job in assessing them is to judge the sincerity of your investment in avoiding a Long Con lynch. When I am already concerned about the post I discussed and then I see "I am not entirely sure but I'd lean no", I am not moved. There is a difference between posturing from a perspective of TMI and sincerely trying to drive a lynch away from a civilian read and onto a mafia read. The most powerful thing you said in Long Con's defense was your expansion of the initial post, at Sloonei's prod, after EOD.

I have no idea whether misrepresentation is scummy behavior from you, but I don't usually see it.

Take a stance.

speedchuck's tone is more telling than Jay's content, I think. He appears genuinely irked by the line of suspicion being put forth against him, and Jay seems to be working hard to spin it. I'll call this a favorable read for speedchuck.

Power read of the day: in 4 hours, dunya has nearly quadrupled the post count of her player slot (in combination with sprityo). That's a good start. Even considering the capacity for a replacement to enter a game with pre-structured reads, that is not the kind of introductory pace I typically see from a replacement mafioso. The only counter-example I can recall is Quin in Mad Max.

Alright folks, here comes a power read! Strap yourselves in for this blistering hot take! Are you ready? dunya is... off to a good start. Alright. The lack of strength in this read suggests to me that Jay didn't want to totally close the door on a dunya/sprityo lynch yet, but he had not choice but to pull back from his previous stance. dunya remains a town read.

Spoiler: show

Power read of the day: in 4 hours, dunya has nearly quadrupled the post count of her player slot (in combination with sprityo). That's a good start. Even considering the capacity for a replacement to enter a game with pre-structured reads, that is not the kind of introductory pace I typically see from a replacement mafioso. The only counter-example I can recall is Quin in Mad Max.

don't be buddying up to me, alright?

Had there been a decent search result for "loneliness and cheese" in Google images, you'd be seeing it here.

People might be inclined to read this sort of interaction as wifomy buddying. Don't. I mean, you can, sure. But I don't think it is. dunya and jay are chummy going all the way back to our RYM days. This is just how they are. If anything, I read this favorably for dunya. I think she'd be more hesitant to paint such a big target on her back immediately if jay and her truly were partners.

After this came the GTH exercise. I'll skip over it for now. There's certainly some juicy content there, but I think it deserves its own scrutiny separate from this post.

At this point I'll note that Jay has made zero mentions of Glorfindelnamehere.

Jack was up Jay's keister about his alleged results of the GTH exercise. Good look for Jack.

Spoiler: show

Wih mesk still not around, I'm thinking she is civ. She isn't new to mafia even though she is new here. I don't think she qould abandon a btsc team. Of course, I could be wrong. There is always a chance she and dunya are bad. I know I have said this before. And dunya kind of eased my mind about it, but think...mesk hasn't been back. She doesn't know that dunya is here. What is mesk was all alone in btsc and decides to justbleave and now she has a strong teammate but doesn't know it. Gah.... I'm so indecisive.

I don't understand the connection being drawn here. In a hypothetical scenario wherein Mesk is a mafioso who has gone AWOL on her team, potential teammates of hers within the dynamic you've drawn could then be anyone low in activity who existed in this game prior to dunya's arrival (including but not necessarily dunya herself). What is the special relevance of dunya to your read on Mesk?

Prods Elohcin's logic with regards to Mesk/dunya, but refrains from taking any stance anywhere. I don't make much of this yet other than to note Jay's continued interest in Eloh.

Spoiler: show

Well I liked this game.

Idk if it made me do better reads but it forced me to make a firm decision on several players. Felt the need to elaborate on Bob (poe/gut/no obvious pairing) and Eloh (feels real in spite of everything) in the moment but choose not to.

I'm following the progression of Jack's read on the Colonel, as the latter alluded to. He did move quickly from a bottom-tier mafia read to a GTH good read in quick succession. One question emerges here for colonialbob:

In a world where Jack is mafia and you are a civilian, what is the mafia benefit Jack enjoys by reversing his perspective of you in the wake of the negative press you received in the night phase? In this scenario you ought to look like a juicy mislynch steak.

Here's a real hard-hitting question for Bob, and not just a fluffy one. However, it still reads more like an attempt to understand Bob's line of thinking than an interrogation. I'm possibly tunneling on Bob, but I can't shake the feeling that Jay was soft on him all game long, especially considering the one mention of bob as "not a town read" which I mentioned in Part 1 of this search, and which was thereafter dropped for all eternity. If Bob was "not a town read", why was Jay so lax in his handling of him after that? He's prodding him with questions but at no point have I got the sense that they're going anywhere constructive. There's no phony attempt to interrogate and produce a read, and there's no visible effort to spin bob as a suspect.

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Elohcin ISO. I've already stated my grievance with this post. I am buying none of what Jay is selling and this was the tipping point for me. Elohcin's post history provides an opportunistic scum with plenty of things to cherrypick as "inconsistencies" and that's exactly what Jay did here. Leaning town on Eloh, but not completely as I am not willing to rule out the possibility that there was some potential for a bus here. Eloh's been remarking about her sickness and fatigue for most of the game, and she hasn't been totally without suspicion against her. It's possible she could have granted her hypothetical teammates permission to throw her under behind the scenes. But my gut tells me she's town.

Spoiler: show

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

This makes you a suspect for me. For real.

The deadline isn't in five seconds. I didn't ask you if Dom is a good five-second candidate. I asked you if he's a good lynch. Your response was nothing more than a way to put your vote on him at the end if that's how things worked out.

The dude has two posts. I've said often that I think a focus on the low-poster end of the spectrum would be a good idea, and he fits within that paradigm. I have nothing else to say about Dom. I would lynch Dom before Jack if that's where the tally rests when the time runs out. Discussion on more substantive suspicions prior to that moment may net a more inspired (hi Quin) option.

This is all discussing Mafia, but not this Mafia.

JaggedJimmyJay

dunya made an assertion about meta perceptions of sig and speedchuck and my applications thereof. I answered that assertion by describing why I would apply a meta read to one guy and not the other guy.

Defensive about his Dom stance and unwilling to discuss it deeply. I get the sense that Epi was aiming to catch an opportunistic baddie with his Dom proposal, and he succeeded. I continue to feel good about Malakim.

DrWilgy, why the vote for Lurker B when Lurker A is already solidly in the lead?

linki: k

Wilgy, what is your present read on Jack?

A couple of generic prods for the doctor. I don't get much out of this, but i'm being thorough so I'll make a note of them. These posts exist.

Spoiler: show

Oh!

Re: Jimmy attacking Sig

Not fair to compare early pirates Sig to late pirates Sig and then contrast early pirates Sig with Sig here cause he got real busy irl. I want to hear more from Sig and won't give him a pass all game but still. Not a fair comparison imo.

Jay, thoughts on this post?

Jack's point is fair enough. It is true that sig was busy. My willingness to give people a break for that is limited, because I have seen too many bad guys use that as an excuse to hide from the game thread (including myself in the past). That doesn't have to mean sig was doing that.

The fact that Jay did nothing with this Jack post until I prodded him days later is another reason for me to read Jack as town. I see this as townie Jack rebuking scum Jay, causing Jay to retreat from his position, or at least wanting to hide from this criticism so that he could continue tossing sig's name out as a suspect. These posts also make me feel slightly better about sig, given that Jay resisted the easy excuse to dismiss his suspicion.

weak

Spoiler: show

In the quote why did you ignore "what line of thinking would an answer lead you down?" And shift the subject?

I don't know what that question means. What does that question mean?

If I answered X, what would you think? If I answered Y, what would you think?

I don't typically make that decision before I receive an answer, unless there's some glaring problem that I am deconstructing. I don't know what I'd think. I asked you a question about a curious voting move, and there could be any number of possible ways you'd respond to that.

This does not look like an exchange between teammates. wilgy is pushing back against jay's line of interrogation and jay appears to be getting frustrated at the doctor's lack of response.

why aren't we all lynching Lasagne? For a low poster, she actually looks bad.

What's the worst thing you could say about Lasagne?

I almost read this post as a sigh of relief. Jay is happy that a new suspect is being submitted to the conversation. It would be super ballsy for Quin to do this deliberately if he and Jay are partners. I'm not ruling it out completely, but my immediate inclination is to say that it's unlikely.

Spoiler: show

I said I was going to put reads in this thread and I will. I do not have time to be Jerry Seinfeld and I don't give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld. I frankly don't see how there could be any impression that I give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld or any other generic super-civilian cookie cutter rendition of myself given the posts I have made in this game. This variety of meta read is bogus, as though JJJ suddenly forgets how to make a million posts when he draws a mafia role.

There's a reason I am only here during brief windows right now. That won't change for the foreseeable future in this or ensuing games. I implore the civilians in this thread to engage a broad dialogue whether I am your locked vote or not. Nothing is friendlier to the mafia team right now than a continuing focus on me, especially when I am in no position to engage the discussion.

I'd really prefer you to give us reasons you're town, rather than "I'm not bad you'll regret voting for me because it's what the mafia wants"

That's not remotely what I said. I don't give a shit about votes.

When I get out of this lab and can actually play this game tonight, it's full legacy. I have to choose between arguing with my accusers to no end and giving actual reads, because there's no way I'll get to both -- and the former is close to useless anyway.

I'm still only getting the Jay-side of this conversation, but this is the first interaction with Bob that makes me feel good about him. However, we're now onto Day 4. I believe with every ounce of my being that Jay invited his teammates to bus him during the night phase. He came out with a promise to deliver reads, Bob gave a generic challenge to that, and Jay gave him the finger. The tone of this exchange is different than their previous ones. Given what I'm assuming about Jay's teammates would have treated him on Day 4, I've convinced myself that this is actually a bad look for bob. How's that for confirmation bias?

Oh look, an ISO. Jay comes out "
Leaning town, with reservations" on bob. I am hesitant to dive too deeply into any of these ISOs he presented on Day 4. They were complete wifom factories. I suspect at least one teammate was ISO'd and the entirety of Jay's post history suggests to me that Bob is a teammate of his. And, at the risk of drowning in the aforementioned wifom, I get the sense when I read this ISO that the bad should outweigh the good, but I've got severe tunnel vision on Bob at this point.

wilgy ISO, comes out naming him as a suspect. Again, wifom factory. This exercise overall has me feeling more good about wilgy than bad, but that's not an extremely strong stance.

His other ISOs on Day 4 were malakim (inconclusive) and speedchuck (inconclusive, but leaning unfavorably). I am still hesitant to do anything firm with any of Jay's Day 4 activity, but I want these ISOs to be acknowledged at the very least. He gave us four ISOs of four players who've been on the fringes of suspicion and the only solid read he presented was on wilgy.

After going through all of Jay's posts, I feel like the player with the most evidence against them in these posts alone is colonialbob. I'm open to hearing what others have to say, of course, and the next step is to analyze the individual players for their interactions with Jay. cbob would be my first target, and I'd also be inclined to look at Long Con. I won't do any of that right now as my batteries need recharging and I had other plans for this afternoon than this.

I'd appreciate feedback, but I don't expect anyone to read all of the words I just typed. Colonialbob is back to being my top suspect.

[nutella]

Thanks for doing all that, Sloonei. I agree with a lot of your assessment, especially regarding the wifom factory ISOs. I'd be willing to look into a cbob lynch, or possibly LC. Wilgy, Sig, and Malakim are also somewhere on the table for me, as is Quin still. I feel mostly good about speedchuck but again, wifom factory.

[Sloonei]

I regret not pursuing colonialbob more over the last couple of days. I never heard a good argument in favor of him being town and I haven't changed my mind on him. Digging through Jay Mountain only strengthened my read. Does anybody have an argument for colonialbob to be town?

[nutella]

Yeah looking again at Jay's ISO of Quin, I'm super wary of the possibility of their scheming buddy status, but that's kind of in the realm of tinfoil (can I get a wifom deluxe with cheese, hold the iocane). Jay's ISO came across as pretty neutral but still ending in a civ read of Quin, and I just have to wonder... I'm more hesitant to go after Quin right away, but maybe that's what they wanted? Aaaa well cbob definitely seems like the safer bet right now.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I regret not pursuing colonialbob more over the last couple of days. I never heard a good argument in favor of him being town and I haven't changed my mind on him. Digging through Jay Mountain only strengthened my read. Does anybody have an argument for colonialbob to be town?

According to himself he was one of the main forces in restarting the Jay lynch.

[Sloonei]

I regret not pursuing colonialbob more over the last couple of days. I never heard a good argument in favor of him being town and I haven't changed my mind on him. Digging through Jay Mountain only strengthened my read. Does anybody have an argument for colonialbob to be town?

According to himself he was one of the main forces in restarting the Jay lynch.

Dubious and borderline irrelevant given my concern that Jay was primed for a bus.
where has he made this bold claim?