The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:01 pm Ok, so Boq is probably town.

I have decided this is the case btw

Boqqed tbh

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

Currently, I think the entire list is wrong. Maybe there's 1 wolf in there (between Dizzy and Creature), but I'm leaning towards not true atm.

Also Mac's reads change with the winds, and just because he fell at that point at EOD1 doesn't mean it was one he truly believed in.

Boqqed and blessed

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm I can't blame him tbh. If everyone else is acting townie, I think it's reasonable to kill the people early on who are not acting townie.

Obviously if that doesn't work we have to reapproach the game from new perspectives, which we are, but I can't call that approach wrong.

Do you think the comments about Wilgy's handling of Mac are reasonable?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:07 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

Currently, I think the entire list is wrong. Maybe there's 1 wolf in there (between Dizzy and Creature), but I'm leaning towards not true atm.

Also Mac's reads change with the winds, and just because he fell at that point at EOD1 doesn't mean it was one he truly believed in.

what if you are saying that because you were a part of that list though :wowee:

I think JJJ is town tbh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm I can't blame him tbh. If everyone else is acting townie, I think it's reasonable to kill the people early on who are not acting townie.

Obviously if that doesn't work we have to reapproach the game from new perspectives, which we are, but I can't call that approach wrong.

Do you think the comments about Wilgy's handling of Mac are reasonable?

I looked at Wilgy's reaction to Mac again, and I'd disagree. I thought Wilgy's reaction was fine (and was the thing I townread Wilgy on in the first place)

Do you think those comments are reasonable?

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:07 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

Currently, I think the entire list is wrong. Maybe there's 1 wolf in there (between Dizzy and Creature), but I'm leaning towards not true atm.

Also Mac's reads change with the winds, and just because he fell at that point at EOD1 doesn't mean it was one he truly believed in.

what if you are saying that because you were a part of that list though :wowee:

That's part of why I didn't comment on it in the first place, because people might see my response and make posts like this :wowee:

Boq, why did you think Wilgy's response to Mac didn't look townie.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:13 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:07 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

Currently, I think the entire list is wrong. Maybe there's 1 wolf in there (between Dizzy and Creature), but I'm leaning towards not true atm.

Also Mac's reads change with the winds, and just because he fell at that point at EOD1 doesn't mean it was one he truly believed in.

what if you are saying that because you were a part of that list though :wowee:

That's part of why I didn't comment on it in the first place, because people might see my response and make posts like this :wowee:

You got boqqed tbh!

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:13 pm Boq, why did you think Wilgy's response to Mac didn't look townie.

i explained that in a post you have quoted. Idk how to explain it in any other way tbh

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:12 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I was about to say that we should talk about Alison, so thanks for leading that discussion.

Thoughts?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:12 pm I looked at Wilgy's reaction to Mac again, and I'd disagree. I thought Wilgy's reaction was fine (and was the thing I townread Wilgy on in the first place)

Do you think those comments are reasonable?

Not particularly. It's been one of my gripes with Boquise. I don't want to rehash my gripes further though after the last page of argument. My broader case is in my Boq ISO.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:12 pm I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:14 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:12 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I was about to say that we should talk about Alison, so thanks for leading that discussion.

Thoughts?

I expect town Alison to do more leading right now and I also think that she would have displayed issues with my contribution in this game by now too tbh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's really hard to say. Mac's views of games can change severely and suddenly. Perhaps he starts there, but his solving method is chaotic and may not end there. What do you have in mind on this front?

I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

My current negative impression of Alison.

She has largely avoided the spotlight lately, but fanned the fire in certain places over the last day or so. In particular, her comments about Ender/JJJ yesterday, as well as lucy after sean and I pressured her. Alison's observations are agreeable enough, but I have growing concern about her lack of engagement, as these comments seem to come from a distance.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's really hard to say. Mac's views of games can change severely and suddenly. Perhaps he starts there, but his solving method is chaotic and may not end there. What do you have in mind on this front?

I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

I can think of several other players who aren't on that list who as a wolf would have concern that they couldn't keep Mac alive for any reasonable length of time without drawing pressure from him, and would want to get rid of him before that happens.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:14 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:12 pm I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:36 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:32 pm I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.
Okay. You aren't interested in understanding my thought processes then. You are interested in writing a case on me and framing what I say as scummy things tbh. If you are scum in this game, I will for sure nab you the next time you do it tbh!

I'm having a conversation and trying to explain where I am coming from -- because I'm not sure your responses relate directly to the points I am trying to make. I wouldn't bother with any of this if I wasn't interested in understanding you. Perhaps my tone is severe: I am frustrated by the state of the game and it bleeds through. This is the kind of thing that makes these interchanges problematic, unfortunately, but the thread is otherwise unmoving so whatever.

Because I think this post opens up a window to your thought process and the realness of your read on me. Because after this post, you tried to give me an olive branch:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:38 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:32 pm I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.

I think this is really the crux of the matter, and if I understood better why this was your expectation I might be able to get somewhere.

Okay so here comes a lot of assumptions and expectations so bear with me.
So if you are scum, you are probably noticing that I am starting to bleed town in my answers, by me being frustrated too.
You could walk back your read here and attempt to pocket me. Or you could be ice cold scum and just say "die scum".

But you give me an olive branch, after opening up yourself, and after that olive branch, you still keep solving inside me under the assumption that I flip wolf. I think that is town indicative tbh

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's really hard to say. Mac's views of games can change severely and suddenly. Perhaps he starts there, but his solving method is chaotic and may not end there. What do you have in mind on this front?

I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

Also Dizzy seems stuck on "why would Seanzie be killed if he was loud and wrong", but not "why would Mac be killed if he was loud and wrong".

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

I would say, in a vacuum, yes. I'm just not sure how much "more" likely -- much more, or just "statistically" more. If we look at night kills alone then Marmot is the standout (perhaps Dizzy). Creature is, in my view, less likely to kill Seanzie.

Have you talked about my thoughts on Marmot? I don't mean to keep plugging these walls, but they summarize my posture on things and serve as a starting point for dialogues.

I am not sure why Dizzy town reads me but thanks for the support :wowee:

Marmot having questionmarks regarding my usage of "interesting" is interesting :wowee:

MU has destroyed me. I need a wowee in every text communication I use tbh

oh Nate is here.
I would vote Ender over JJJ

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:21 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's really hard to say. Mac's views of games can change severely and suddenly. Perhaps he starts there, but his solving method is chaotic and may not end there. What do you have in mind on this front?

I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

Also Dizzy seems stuck on "why would Seanzie be killed if he was loud and wrong", but not "why would Mac be killed if he was loud and wrong".

I don’t think I am. You seem much more stuck on that than me.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm I am not sure why Dizzy town reads me but thanks for the support :wowee:

Marmot having questionmarks regarding my usage of "interesting" is interesting :wowee:

MU has destroyed me. I need a wowee in every text communication I use tbh

oh Nate is here.
I would vote Ender over JJJ

interesting take tbh

My summary view of Alison:

Day 1 - Good
Day 2 - Good
Day 3 - What

Ideally, I’d like Jimmay/Alison wagons. But I doubt I’ll get it

lots of naked votes on Alison huh tbh

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm I am not sure why Dizzy town reads me but thanks for the support :wowee:

Marmot having questionmarks regarding my usage of "interesting" is interesting :wowee:

MU has destroyed me. I need a wowee in every text communication I use tbh

oh Nate is here.
I would vote Ender over JJJ

interesting take tbh

It is pretty interesting that you did not press me further on that but wanted to re-ask me about my Wilgy take when that has already been explained tbh

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:21 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's really hard to say. Mac's views of games can change severely and suddenly. Perhaps he starts there, but his solving method is chaotic and may not end there. What do you have in mind on this front?

I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

Also Dizzy seems stuck on "why would Seanzie be killed if he was loud and wrong", but not "why would Mac be killed if he was loud and wrong".

I don’t think I am. You seem much more stuck on that than me.

I saw you bring it up with Fingersplints and JJJ, it seemed important to your view of the gamestate.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:26 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm I am not sure why Dizzy town reads me but thanks for the support :wowee:

Marmot having questionmarks regarding my usage of "interesting" is interesting :wowee:

MU has destroyed me. I need a wowee in every text communication I use tbh

oh Nate is here.
I would vote Ender over JJJ

interesting take tbh

It is pretty interesting that you did not press me further on that but wanted to re-ask me about my Wilgy take when that has already been explained tbh

I have several trains of thought going atm and they're all competing for brainpower

I didn't find your original explanation of Wigly's take satisfactory, but you said that was the best you could do, which is why I left it where it was.

The "interesting" observation was an observation I wanted to note, but wasn't sure if there was anything worth pursuing there.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:25 pm lots of naked votes on Alison huh tbh

How many?

only got 4h of sleep last night lol

interesting alison vote

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:27 pmI saw you bring it up with Fingersplints and JJJ, it seemed important to your view of the gamestate.

I guess. I wouldn't say I'm stuck on it. Mac's kill is less surprising overall. I'm also much more upset by the Sean kill tbh

@Alison yodelayheehoo

@Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm interesting alison vote

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

No, I'm really asking.

I might be legit crazy, but I think my PoE is Jimmay/Alison/Marmot/Creature

Unless I'm just very wrong, and it's like Ender/Fingers and someone. I just don't think it is.

Don't hold me to this.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

No, I'm really asking.

There was a point in Fleabag where Jay took multiple votes at the end of a day phase in the form of a flashwagon. I took the opportunity to support it to make it look like it had some serious momentum, both to gauge Jay's reaction, and to gauge the thread's reaction to seeing him as a wagon.

Jay's reaction at the time I found townie. I already thought he was town (which I was right), so perhaps I had conf-biased myself, but I thought it was a potentially useful exercise nonetheless. I don't remember much else from that event.

Seeing momentum here, I thought it could be useful to try said tactic again. Jay does look like he's had momentum building on him since mid Day 2 or so. I however think he's still performed just fine under that pressure.


Also, as I've said before, I think Jay is turning into the fallguy for the heat being put on the towncore, and I believe that makes it more likely a miss.

@NateTheLesser You seem to suspect both Creature and Fingers. What do you think of my reasoning for them being anti-teamed, with Fingers jumping on Creature near EoD2 instead of the competing wagon, Marmot?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:22 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

I would say, in a vacuum, yes. I'm just not sure how much "more" likely -- much more, or just "statistically" more. If we look at night kills alone then Marmot is the standout (perhaps Dizzy). Creature is, in my view, less likely to kill Seanzie.

Have you talked about my thoughts on Marmot? I don't mean to keep plugging these walls, but they summarize my posture on things and serve as a starting point for dialogues.

I read it but I haven't talked about it. We're in the same wheelhouse on Marmot, town but with a few rough spots. I don't think he answered the specific questions in your wall, though I saw he responded to it in general.