Mortal Kombat Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like you have something personal against marmot and you are taking it out on him in mafia. This is how it seems to me, anyway.

Also, screw this shit. People should know that I don't play Mafia like a petulant child and try to lynch people out of some ridiculous grudge. I have never been that type and there's no good reason to assume that's what I was doing with Marmot.

[Kylemii]

[mention]Elohcin[/mention]

If not you then who should we lynch?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[MacDougall]

You guys mad?

Don't worry, be happy.

[lapluie]

Oh my gosh, used to sing this song in school but in the french version..memories

[speedchuck]

I feel like Elohcin, Made, and novaselinenever is a mafia buffet. I have placed a vote.

What about Mac? Your thing earlier, about him being fake? Where does that compare to the Nova case on your pooh-pooh scale?

[speedchuck]

I don't play Mafia like a petulant child

Icky poo.

Had to do it.

[Kylemii]

I don't play Mafia like a petulant child

Icky poo.

Had to do it.

[Kylemii]

What are the endgame implications if Dave is mafia?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like Elohcin, Made, and novaselinenever is a mafia buffet. I have placed a vote.

What about Mac? Your thing earlier, about him being fake? Where does that compare to the Nova case on your pooh-pooh scale?

He could be. I don't struggle to imagine MacDougall brazenly playing for a game ending Elohcin mislynch or some such. It's plausible, but I don't know that there's a reason to call it likely.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What are the endgame implications if Dave is mafia?

It would be a big boost for the civilians in that it'd decrease the mafia vote power by at least one and possibly more if he is Baraka or Shang Tsung.

[nutellaphant]

We Know Why The Wilg Bird Sings

[Long Con]

Long Con has been killed.

It is now Day 8. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Yaaaay, that's pretty good, blue players don't really last long, and I just started hosting a game. Good luck!!!!

[Kylemii]

what is a wild bird?

[Kylemii]

wilg bird* I know what a wild bird is, I've been outside

[MacDougall]

Oi JaggedJoeyJim? If I was bad ... you would think I was town. Beleedat.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oi JaggedJoeyJim? If I was bad ... you would think I was town. Beleedat.

You just hope that your lynch doesn't become the best decision I can come up with. Or it will be the best we can ask for in this lynch.

[Kylemii]

who replaced in for gumshoe? was it dunya?

[lapluie]

who replaced in for gumshoe? was it dunya?

yeah I believe so

[Kylemii]

who replaced in for gumshoe? was it dunya?

yes, nevermind ignore this

linki thanks laplu

[Kylemii]

who replaced in for birdswithteeth?

[Kylemii]

rabbit

[Kylemii]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] may i ask you a personal question?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay may i ask you a personal question?

k

[Kylemii]

@JaggedJimmyJay may i ask you a personal question?

k

do you know if you'd be made are would be made aware if/when you accomplish your wincon?

[Kylemii]

@JaggedJimmyJay may i ask you a personal question?

k

do you know if you'd be made aware if/when you accomplish your wincon?

.......despair........

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay may i ask you a personal question?

k

do you know if you'd be made are would be made aware if/when you accomplish your wincon?

I wouldn't expect to receive a host message indicating it if that's your meaning. I don't know for certain.

[Kylemii]

I wouldn't expect to receive a host message indicating it if that's your meaning. I don't know for certain.

thank you

[Kylemii]

we should definitely do our best to stack our votes on one player today, our wiggle room is probably limited.

[MacDougall]

Elo has got to go

Mac for prez

[lapluie]

show the way

[Kylemii]

I think I still want to lynch Eloh, if anyone has a better idea please let me know.

If mafia has the brute force voting power to commandeer the lynch already then..... so be it.

[Elohcin]

and my criticisms of your case were not vague. I was very precise on what I thought about your points.

You are making me mad Jay because you are saying things that are not true. Go back and read that whole day.

Anyone else think they should vote me because I "had no personal effort to assess marmot myself". What a jerk and a fucking liar you are being, Jay. I'm sorry to get upset, but I don't take it well when I put time and effort into something and someone tries to shit all over it like I didn't do a fucking thing. I have to go to sleep and not post again this evening. Gah! I'm angry.

I was there too. You said things about the case. They were vague. "That just seems like Marmot to me." That is nothing. That is not a read. It's an absolution of a player who is under pressure for no reason.

I have no desire to upset you. I'm playing Mafia though, and if I have reason to believe that you are aligned the mafia team I am going to say so as I always have before. Marmot gave this shit too.

I have no problem with you going after me if you think I'm mafia. I have a problem with you saying I did diddly shit when I was in the thread for hours that day doing lots of shit. That makes me mad as a civ or a mafia. My time is precious. And if I choose to spend it playing mafia, I don't want players thinking I'm not doing anything. I have played to the best of my ability. After my 6 day migraine stretch, I jumped in. I read. I gave suspicions with reasons. I reacted to others' suspicions. I don't know what more y'all want from me. You find me sus because of my reaction to your sus. No one else will even tell me why they find me sus so I can defend myself. Of course I have another page to read...we'll see.

[Elohcin]

Lynch Eloh, they say. She's got to go, they say. They give Eloh nothing to defend against. I'll ask again...WHY? Give me somehting to defend against. I came up at EoD last time and no one gave any reasons for me to defend against even if I had been here. Today...nothing to defend against.

@Elohcin

If not you then who should we lynch?

it's frustrating, because if you have been reading my posts, you would know. I think Lap or Mac and I have given theories and reasons for this. If you want to know why...ISO me. I am done repeating myself like I never said anything in the first place. I feel ignored and now attacked for no reason because y'all LITERALLY have not given a reason except for Jay.

[Kylemii]

[mention]Elohcin[/mention] I think for a lot of us it's at least partially process of elimination. I know that's probably frustrating. If you're really not mafia then the best thing you can do right now is try to convince us what player other than you is most likely to be partners with Simon and Marmot.

I'll review your iso later if I get time. It's important that we get this right.

[Elohcin]

Thank you Kyle. It will be difficult to think who might be Simon's teammate, but I will look at Marmot's ISO and see if I can find some kind of connection and then share with the class

[Kylemii]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] I actually have another question, please answer honestly, your real opinion is more important than posturing at this point:

Would you prioritize a civilian victory over your own, even if there were a quicker and more definite way to assure your own victory? From your viewpoint, in the JaggedJimmyJay mindset.... is the best possible outcome for this game one where you win, or one where the most players win even if it involves a risk of you losing?

[speedchuck]

@JaggedJimmyJay I actually have another question, please answer honestly, your real opinion is more important than posturing at this point:

Would you prioritize a civilian victory over your own, even if there were a quicker and more definite way to assure your own victory? From your viewpoint, in the JaggedJimmyJay mindset.... is the best possible outcome for this game one where you win, or one where the most players win even if it involves a risk of you losing?

Well this is a terrifying question

[speedchuck]

Either 3p Kyle is asking for guidance or he's asking if jjj will betray us now.

Gut says the former, given context

[Kylemii]

Either 3p Kyle is asking for guidance or he's asking if jjj will betray us now.

Gut says the former, given context

Or....! Maybe it's a different 3rd option where Kyle has found himself in a cool and good position to challenge Jay's views on game theory.

[speedchuck]

Either 3p Kyle is asking for guidance or he's asking if jjj will betray us now.

Gut says the former, given context

Or....! Maybe it's a different 3rd option where Kyle has found himself in a cool and good position to challenge Jay's views on game theory.

This isn't game theory. This is "should I screw over town". That's a question of playing the game vs arbitrating the winners

[lapluie]

wish the days are shorter since less players

[Elohcin]

@JaggedJimmyJay I actually have another question, please answer honestly, your real opinion is more important than posturing at this point:

Would you prioritize a civilian victory over your own, even if there were a quicker and more definite way to assure your own victory? From your viewpoint, in the JaggedJimmyJay mindset.... is the best possible outcome for this game one where you win, or one where the most players win even if it involves a risk of you losing?

I think Jay wants to win.

I have been going non-stop today. Haven't had any free time since I sat yo eat breakfast and read the thread. Just sat for lunch and read the thread and now I am off to do household things. I wish I had more time to devote atm, but I feel like even if I do, it won't mean anything to those voting for me for no reason other that POE.

[Kylemii]

Either 3p Kyle is asking for guidance or he's asking if jjj will betray us now.

Gut says the former, given context

Or....! Maybe it's a different 3rd option where Kyle has found himself in a cool and good position to challenge Jay's views on game theory.

This isn't game theory. This is "should I screw over town". That's a question of playing the game vs arbitrating the winners

isn't that basically part of what game theory is? i want to know if Jay would rather continue cooperating with the majority and go for a more unlikely but more fulfilling victory for himself and many other players, or take the easier path even though it would ultimately result in fewer victories accross the board.

[MacDougall]

I changed my mind I want to lynch kyle

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay I actually have another question, please answer honestly, your real opinion is more important than posturing at this point:

Would you prioritize a civilian victory over your own, even if there were a quicker and more definite way to assure your own victory? From your viewpoint, in the JaggedJimmyJay mindset.... is the best possible outcome for this game one where you win, or one where the most players win even if it involves a risk of you losing?

It wouldn't be fair of me to specifically prioritize one faction over another, and I would actively resist that unless my hand is forced. The worst-case scenario for this game would be for me to win alone, something which may be plausible in theory but doesn't need to happen. Beyond that I will not exclusively rail against or exclusively support any other faction (keep in mind that this is my mindset entering the game). I am here to have fun, experience Mafia in a way I don't typically get to experience it, and to balance that as much as I can with a genuine pursuit of winning the game. It appears likely to me that for the remainder of this game as we currently sit, working toward pro-civilian objectives is more likely to achieve that than working toward pro-mafia objectives. Ideally I will not be the main reason either side or the other wins. It shouldn't be my call.

[Kylemii]

@JaggedJimmyJay I actually have another question, please answer honestly, your real opinion is more important than posturing at this point:

Would you prioritize a civilian victory over your own, even if there were a quicker and more definite way to assure your own victory? From your viewpoint, in the JaggedJimmyJay mindset.... is the best possible outcome for this game one where you win, or one where the most players win even if it involves a risk of you losing?

It wouldn't be fair of me to specifically prioritize one faction over another, and I would actively resist that unless my hand is forced. The worst-case scenario for this game would be for me to win alone, something which may be plausible in theory but doesn't need to happen. Beyond that I will not exclusively rail against or exclusively support any other faction (keep in mind that this is my mindset entering the game). I am here to have fun, experience Mafia in a way I don't typically get to experience it, and to balance that as much as I can with a genuine pursuit of winning the game. It appears likely to me that for the remainder of this game as we currently sit, working toward pro-civilian objectives is more likely to achieve that than working toward pro-mafia objectives. Ideally I will not be the main reason either side or the other wins. It shouldn't be my call.

Alright cool. You chose correctly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel on lapluie, Night 4:

Spoiler: show

I sure did. What is your greatest disagreement?

It frankly astounds me that anyone could read Lapluie’s ISO and deduce from that she is anywhere near Town. You said this of Jack:

Jack is red because he continues to push dubious cases with a tone of exaggerated assertiveness while resisting other dubious cases with the same tone, and I question the legitimacy of any civilian mindset he has attempted to portray.

Precisely the same thing could be said of Lapluie (only I think it applies more so in her case).

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

It would seem logical that any POE needs to focus on the LC and TSP wagons. THAT is where we should start looking.

In any case, this will be left up to you guys to determine. I believe that it would be cruel and inhumane of our Mafia team to keep me alive any longer in this game so I hope my game does end here in the next few hours. No one would listen to me when it counted, I don’t expect that’s like to change.

If by your last question Jay, you mean someone else that I knew for certain to be a Townie, no.

I can understand why you'd be perturbed given your strong civilian read on Long Con. Whatever brings you to that read, consider how others are going to approach Long Con without the same rationale in mind that you have in yours. He hasn't done very much in this game. He's flown under the radar. I think it's fair to suspect him in the absence of special insight. In lapluie's case, I am pretty sure Long Con voted for her in a tally which could have easily destroyed her. He moved to TSP in the end, but for a long stretch he was on lapluie. Play devil's advocate with yourself and assume lapluie is a civilian -- how is she likely to respond when an under-the-radar Long Con is trying to get her lynched close to EOD?

Now, consider your own role in this incident. You were loudly shouting for LC to be saved. You didn't want that lynch. Anyone who knows you well would be well-advised to listen to you on that front. Does lapluie know you? Does your reputation hold any weight with a player who has never played with you before? What about the LC voters who do know you and still ignored you? Would you agree that there is a more obvious problem with that picture?

Very well, Jay - you have my attention.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Day 5:

Spoiler: show

Also, apologies to you Lapluie. Jay has made me see the light.

Its best to lynch mafia players who are still active now, rather than an inactive player imo.

That's a fair argument. I would consider them both to be active at least in that they can send night actions. You'll note that Simon voted late in the last day phase, and for you.

I voted for Lapluie too and I was wrong. I don’t think Simon making a wrong choice particularly in that instance (sorry, Lapluie) wasn’t necessarily understandable.

One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

Lapluie is NOT Mafia.

You can see a clear transition between phases. On Night 4 he started with strong suspicion of lapluie, and even though he was willing to listen to my argument in her favor he didn't 180 it. When the new day phase began though, he was immediate in absolving her and resolute in defending her.

I'm not lynching that.

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

Elohcin wants to lynch lapluie. This is Elohcin's response to my digging and finding strong evidence that Glorfindel had information in lapluie's favor.

"What if Glor got wrong info?" is a question reflecting a feasible universe, but I see no evidence that Elohcin has truly paid this any mind. There's another universe, one much more feasible, in which "Glor got right info". I don't understand why this would be so irrelevant to a civilian Elohcin.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One of Elohcin's primary contributions to Vocaroo 2 was to correctly defend Simon when the POE Monster was closing in on him. Simon had very few posts, but Elohcin saw fit to defend him anyway because of reasons unique to her and her relationship with him.

Simon had very few posts in this game. How did Elohcin treat him this time? The following posts are a few examples, but not all:

Spoiler: show

I haven't read in a couple days, but I do remember Dunya coming in here defending Simon a lot to someone who was suspecting him. So, that alone is a Simon/Dunya teammie ping. I will put my vote on Dunya since she has the most already. And if she turns out bad, I say we go Simon next.

Hang on a second..why are we voting simon again?

I think MacDougall's theory that Jack was bussing Simon was merited enough that one of two scenarios is true:

~ Jack knows something about Simon via honest means, and it's more conclusive than a blocked kill.

~ Jack is bussing Simon.

If the former is true, that's a good lead on Simon being mafia. If the latter is true, Simon is definitely mafia.

And if the latter is correct, then Jack is bad too? Just clarifying your thoughts.

Hang on a second..why are we voting simon again?

Cause the goal of the game is to lynch the mafia before the kill all the townies.

I think this is pretty hilarious. And I know I haven't been around, but I agree that Simon could be bad. It's a little bit gut, a little bit lack of play, but mostly it was his random vote. He voted for lap, and said it was random. Why would he voting randomly at this point? I know he is 10, but still.

There is no case against simon, I for one am certain simon isn't bad, there's no reason to even lynch him. He's inactive!!!!

=/

I don't like when people throw around words like "certain" in mafia. This makes me think you are bad.

And, your push for nutella and your over the top trust in tony's word terrify me a bit.

I understand why nutella is under the eye and I can probably get on board with her case on another day. Today, I vote Simon.

One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

I want to hear more about this.

There is no good reason for a mafia member to defend Simon this hard if he is a teammate. It's nonsense. One is forced to invoke the most intense of WIFOM to turn that into a reality, and I think that'd be quite weak.

Mafia members are more likely to be eager to bus their single-digit posting teammate than protect him at all costs. Civilians tend to be clueless about this kind of thing and will by their very nature surround the defender post-mafia-flip with foam dribbling from their mouths waiting to pounce. Simons teammates know that.

The only alternative to consider would be: this is LyLo right now, nutella is a civilian, and lapluie is going for the win. I find that highly unlikely given the numbers.

but nothing is certain. You are not in Lap's brain. She could be Simon's teammate and defending the hel out of him because he has a VERY useful role.

Not only was Elohcin easy to convince that Simon warrants a lynch, based on Jack saying essentially nothing beyond "Simon is bad" over and over, she was eager to tack other players (one confirmed civilian and one near-confirmed civilian) to Simon as teammates before he even flipped. These attempts to yoke dunya and lapluie into a Simon team look utterly fake to me.

The case against dunya originally was absolute garbage, and any civilians who contributed to that really ought to feel silly. That was easily the worst lynch of this game so far. With that in mind, attempts to stick her alongside Simon strike me as hogwash. Balderdash. Icky poo. The later effort to stick lapluie alongside Simon is too easy. I don't like this stuff. It looks inauthentic to me, and it's a stark contrast to Vocaroo 2.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Another note on Elohcin:

One trend I have noticed as her three-time mafia teammate (Syndicate Mafia, Transistor, Mountains) is that when she is under fire, she tends to believe that the reasons why are faulty or invalid. When Matt went after Elohcin throughout Day 1 of Transistor, Elohcin was very irritated because she felt Matt's reasons were bunk. I thought he was making valid assertions. When dunya went after Elohcin throughout Mountains, Elohcin was very irritated because she felt dunya's reasons were bunk. I thought she was making valid assertions.

Now I'm the one with the reasons that are bunk.