Bee Mafia [GAME OVER]

[ts account]

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

[MartinGG99]

PRESS ALISON FOR ALL THE THINGS SHE'S BEEN DODGING!!!!!

Sorry but I'm going to ironically dodge dealing with you unless I got no bigger suspects.

Also the whole "they're doing X!!!" thing is getting old for me.

[MartinGG99]

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

Okay fine your responses are decent and aren't pinging me.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

I don't think you're w/w with this guy.

[MartinGG99]

Sorry but I'm going to ironically dodge dealing with you unless I got no bigger suspects.

Also the whole "they're dodging X!!!" thing is getting old for me.

Man I need to proof-read more often.

[Seanzie]

It is my birthday, and literally town is giving a wolf a free pass. I'm drunk and going to bed, maybe I'll be back before EoD tomorrow, maybe not. But if y'all don't at least try to get Alison to respond, y'all dumb. Vote me in that case beecause I don't want to buzz around with people who will let an obvious wolf hang out in our hive without at least expecting them to answer questions to prove their bee-ee-ness.

[ts account]

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

Okay fine your responses are decent and aren't pinging me.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

I don't think you're w/w with this guy.

what do you think about seanzie committing to alison despite the opportunities to look elsewhere? Sunk cost fallacy or genuine?

[Seanzie]

I'm not even telling y'all to vote for her if you don't want to. Just as her some damn questions. This is stupid that I even need to try to get people to CONSIDER a damn person. Dumb.

[MartinGG99]

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

Okay fine your responses are decent and aren't pinging me.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

I don't think you're w/w with this guy.

what do you think about seanzie committing to alison despite the opportunities to look elsewhere? Sunk cost fallacy or genuine?

Kinda hard to tell, I would have to know seanzie better.

Honestly my brain wants to smite him for doing scummy things but gut says some of his arguments are genuinely dumb in a town way. I'm still trying to improve my ability to tell if somethings dumb tvt or not though; I have misread things as tvt in the past and it has cost me. Right now I'm basically looking at it from a policy that if I don't have any significant suspects it must be him. He also just re-used the "they're dodging X" thing from BK onto Alison, and I kinda town-read that though if they're trying to make things look dumb intentionally then its probably not hard to fake.

Either way he flips though I don't think he's w/w with BoKnows as Alison suspects.

TL;DR I'm leaning town, but not implausibly a wolf.

[Seanzie]

PRESS ALISON FOR ALL THE THINGS SHE'S BEEN DODGING!!!!!

Sorry but I'm going to ironically dodge dealing with you unless I got no bigger suspects.

Also the whole "they're doing X!!!" thing is getting old for me.

Martin: "I'm not going to listen to you about where I might find a suspect"

Also Martin:

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

Okay fine your responses are decent and aren't pinging me.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

I don't think you're w/w with this guy.

what do you think about seanzie committing to alison despite the opportunities to look elsewhere? Sunk cost fallacy or genuine?

Kinda hard to tell, I would have to know seanzie better.

Honestly my brain wants to smite him for doing scummy things but gut says some of his arguments are genuinely dumb in a town way. I'm still trying to improve my ability to tell if somethings dumb tvt or not though; I have misread things as tvt in the past and it has cost me. Right now I'm basically looking at it from a policy that if I don't have any significant suspects it must be him. He also just re-used the "they're dodging X" thing from BK onto Alison, and I kinda town-read that though if they're trying to make things look dumb intentionally then its probably not hard to fake.

Either way he flips though I don't think he's w/w with BoKnows as Alison suspects.

TL;DR I'm leaning town, but not implausibly a wolf.

"I'm going to vote him if I don't have a better suspect".

Pretty damn convenient. If I flip today, Alison, then Martin IMO.

[ts account]

myself I think there's room for seanzie to be trying to navigate to a scenario where they can stumble into an alison town read but alison's refusal to interact is forcing them into the tunnel? It's just kind of a lot of theater for something that ultimately ends in self destruction either way so I'm inclined to believe seanzie's real

[Alison]

Have some takes I want to sleep on. Be back tomorrow.

[MartinGG99]

PRESS ALISON FOR ALL THE THINGS SHE'S BEEN DODGING!!!!!

Sorry but I'm going to ironically dodge dealing with you unless I got no bigger suspects.

Also the whole "they're doing X!!!" thing is getting old for me.

Martin: "I'm not going to listen to you about where I might find a suspect"

Also Martin:

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

Okay fine your responses are decent and aren't pinging me.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

I don't think you're w/w with this guy.

what do you think about seanzie committing to alison despite the opportunities to look elsewhere? Sunk cost fallacy or genuine?

Kinda hard to tell, I would have to know seanzie better.

Honestly my brain wants to smite him for doing scummy things but gut says some of his arguments are genuinely dumb in a town way. I'm still trying to improve my ability to tell if somethings dumb tvt or not though; I have misread things as tvt in the past and it has cost me. Right now I'm basically looking at it from a policy that if I don't have any significant suspects it must be him. He also just re-used the "they're dodging X" thing from BK onto Alison, and I kinda town-read that though if they're trying to make things look dumb intentionally then its probably not hard to fake.

Either way he flips though I don't think he's w/w with BoKnows as Alison suspects.

TL;DR I'm leaning town, but not implausibly a wolf.

"I'm going to vote him if I don't have a better suspect".

Pretty damn convenient. If I flip today, Alison, then Martin IMO.

I'm not sure how the first quote contradicts the second if that's what you're suggesting here.

[Alison]

Martin can I have a quick readslist please?

[fingersplints]

“Y’all dumb” really doesn’t win any favours with me. I was willing to give this debate the benefit of town vs town but posts like that just make me defensive, even if I wasn’t specifically addressed in it, my name has been brought up in the conversation between Alison and seanzie (who I keep reading as “sneezy”) that I feel compelled to address.

I don’t see what Alison is ignoring, or what is wrong with giving a town read on someone off of a little. These early reads are bound to change. Someone else posted a “v” after me which apparently means good, but that read wasn’t questioned, so why this one? Why now? Again I don’t really see what was ignored here. As of right now, I’m not seeing anything different from Alison’s (limited) town play I have seen.
I’m still thinking about giving Seanzie the benefit of the doubt for now, because I could honestly see this being town who thinks they’ve caught something major early. However I’m a bit worried that without any answers to this debate or will continue to monopolise the thread until it is resolved.

[Seanzie]

myself I think there's room for seanzie to be trying to navigate to a scenario where they can stumble into an alison town read but alison's refusal to interact is forcing them into the tunnel? It's just kind of a lot of theater for something that ultimately ends in self destruction either way so I'm inclined to believe seanzie's real

Thank you for being a voice of reason here. If I am wrong about Alison, I would love to know that, because it isn't good for town for me to continue this 1v1 if I am wrong here. She is refusing to interact with me though, which is extremely anti-town, and idk what to do with that other than assume I'm right that she is scum.

[ts account]

(who I keep reading as “sneezy”)

which dwarf do I get to be
alison is easily grumpy

[fingersplints]

Also happy birthday

[MartinGG99]

Martin can I have a quick readslist please?

GTH off the top of my head

LC town
BK town
Seanzie lean town
Alison lean town
Finger lean town
Kyle null
Nanook town
TS lean town
Esooa null -
Falcon scum
Quin null
Ratrug null -
C4 null -

Those with dashes I haven't really thought about or looked at yet.

[fingersplints]

(who I keep reading as “sneezy”)

which dwarf do I get to be
alison is easily grumpy

TBD

Who wants to be dopey?

[Alison]

Please elaborate on your Falcon read.

[Seanzie]

“Y’all dumb” really doesn’t win any favours with me. I was willing to give this debate the benefit of town vs town but posts like that just make me defensive, even if I wasn’t specifically addressed in it, my name has been brought up in the conversation between Alison and seanzie (who I keep reading as “sneezy”) that I feel compelled to address.

I don’t see what Alison is ignoring, or what is wrong with giving a town read on someone off of a little. These early reads are bound to change. Someone else posted a “v” after me which apparently means good, but that read wasn’t questioned, so why this one? Why now? Again I don’t really see what was ignored here. As of right now, I’m not seeing anything different from Alison’s (limited) town play I have seen.
I’m still thinking about giving Seanzie the benefit of the doubt for now, because I could honestly see this being town who thinks they’ve caught something major early. However I’m a bit worried that without any answers to this debate or will continue to monopolise the thread until it is resolved.

She said you were "comfortable in the thread" at a time when you had exactly 6 posts and most other people were at 30+ posts. Minimally at a surface level, low posting does not look comfortable, so if she is giving that read, she must be seeing something that makes her think you are comfortable. Maybe you were comfortable, maybe you weren't, but she refused to explain what she was seeing that made her think you were comfortable. Which of those first 6 posts were comfortable? Can she give any indication that it is a true thought, and not something she made up? Who knows at this point.

I'm at the "y'all dumb" point now because it has been hours that I have been trying to get any sort of response from her and she refuses to interact with me, and I've asked people to help me indirectly interact with her, and no one has helped me. I'm trying my ass off, Alison is dodging creating content, and people aren't helping me. I call that people being dumb because it is clearly best-play to get to the bottom of this, but Alison won't respond to my questioning, and no one is helping.

[Seanzie]

PRESS ALISON FOR ALL THE THINGS SHE'S BEEN DODGING!!!!!

Sorry but I'm going to ironically dodge dealing with you unless I got no bigger suspects.

Also the whole "they're doing X!!!" thing is getting old for me.

Martin: "I'm not going to listen to you about where I might find a suspect"

Also Martin:

You also did basically a carbon-copy of Nanook's sheep, just a different person being voted.

interesting that makes me feel better about both nanook and long con

Okay fine your responses are decent and aren't pinging me.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

I don't think you're w/w with this guy.

what do you think about seanzie committing to alison despite the opportunities to look elsewhere? Sunk cost fallacy or genuine?

Kinda hard to tell, I would have to know seanzie better.

Honestly my brain wants to smite him for doing scummy things but gut says some of his arguments are genuinely dumb in a town way. I'm still trying to improve my ability to tell if somethings dumb tvt or not though; I have misread things as tvt in the past and it has cost me. Right now I'm basically looking at it from a policy that if I don't have any significant suspects it must be him. He also just re-used the "they're dodging X" thing from BK onto Alison, and I kinda town-read that though if they're trying to make things look dumb intentionally then its probably not hard to fake.

Either way he flips though I don't think he's w/w with BoKnows as Alison suspects.

TL;DR I'm leaning town, but not implausibly a wolf.

"I'm going to vote him if I don't have a better suspect".

Pretty damn convenient. If I flip today, Alison, then Martin IMO.

I'm not sure how the first quote contradicts the second if that's what you're suggesting here.

I'm not saying you're contradicting yourself, I'm saying it looks like you are making excuses to not look into Alison, with an eventual plan to vote me by EoD.

[Alison]

People don't care because they don't believe it's AI and think I could make that read on fingersplints either way. They're also well aware that I can adequately back up my read any time I want regardless of my alignment. The people in the thread who have responded to your little soapbox generally prioritize thread health and not gumming up the thread with 10000 walls of text that won't convince anyone over random nitpicks. If you're going to talk about anti-town you should know that you're being the most anti-town person in the entire thread right now. I'm refusing to interact with what you're saying because I'm convinced that it's the best strategy, if you don't like it then too bad.

[MartinGG99]

Please elaborate on your Falcon read.

He doesn't seem to have similar reads as I do, such as town-reading BK as he has questioned me on that, and he seemingly scum-reads LC.

Also they haven't voted. Additionally, the LC reasons I've mentioned earlier.

[Alison]

Please elaborate on your Falcon read.

He doesn't seem to have similar reads as I do, such as town-reading BK as he has questioned me on that, and he seemingly scum-reads LC.

Also they haven't voted. Additionally, the LC reasons I've mentioned earlier.

Why am I a town lean?

[MartinGG99]

Please elaborate on your Falcon read.

He doesn't seem to have similar reads as I do, such as town-reading BK as he has questioned me on that, and he seemingly scum-reads LC.

Also they haven't voted. Additionally, the LC reasons I've mentioned earlier.

Why am I a town lean?

This D1 thing pings me as being slightly reminiscent of Overtime Mafia, though I could be misremembering as its been awhile.

Additionally, nothing by you has pinged me as scummy. I also kinda feel like scum you would not get into a tunnel d1 very swiftly without first interacting with others, but that may be a part of how I generalize scums.

[Seanzie]

People don't care because they don't believe it's AI and think I could make that read on fingersplints either way. They're also well aware that I can adequately back up my read any time I want regardless of my alignment. The people in the thread who have responded to your little soapbox generally prioritize thread health and not gumming up the thread with 10000 walls of text that won't convince anyone over random nitpicks. If you're going to talk about anti-town you should know that you're being the most anti-town person in the entire thread right now. I'm refusing to interact with what you're saying because I'm convinced that it's the best strategy, if you don't like it then too bad.

You are the one gumming up the thread. No gumming would be happening if you were actually responding to my questions. How many posts have been spent with you dodging me, avoiding creating content? All of my posts (except for some of the recent ones where I've become frustrated) have had the sole intent of creating content, and you have just been difficult, trying to stop the creation of content.

[MartinGG99]

Not to mention how we seemingly have different thought patterns and you always seem to get a correct read on me, and so I hope one day I might be able to do the same if we're on opposing alignments when I'm town.

So it kinda adds to this feel of "if you're scum, I would know it" idea.

[MartinGG99]

Errr similar thought patterns.

My brain is not worknig well today.

[ts account]

why does your GTH have nulls in it
that ain't allowed

[Alison]

I've been playing League of Legends for the past couple of hours so I doubt I've been gumming up the thread. All my posts have been short and to the point. All I've done is tell you that I don't intend to interact with you because I don't see the point. You're the one writing 500 word walls of text crying about how it's not fair that I refuse to talk to you. Ironically you interrupted me generating content by talking to Martin with a complaint about me refusing to generate content.

[Alison]

Not to mention how we seemingly have different thought patterns and you always seem to get a correct read on me, and so I hope one day I might be able to do the same if we're on opposing alignments when I'm town.

So it kinda adds to this feel of "if you're scum, I would know it" idea.

Pretty townie thought.

[Alison]

Martin and Mikey (ts account) are probably town.

[MartinGG99]

why does your GTH have nulls in it
that ain't allowed

I generally use "GTH" as having not put a whole lot of thought or looking at my notes much for. I also said "off the top of my head", y'know.

Either way, I don't think that really matters unless someone asks me to choose one side or another.

[Alison]

After I wake up I'm going to solve the game for all of you.

[Seanzie]

I've been playing League of Legends for the past couple of hours so I doubt I've been gumming up the thread. All my posts have been short and to the point. All I've done is tell you that I don't intend to interact with you because I don't see the point. You're the one writing 500 word walls of text crying about how it's not fair that I refuse to talk to you. Ironically you interrupted me generating content by talking to Martin with a complaint about me refusing to generate content.

I never said it isn't fair. If you are town, you're being anti-town. If you're scum, this is a worthwhile place to slow the thread. If you consider long posts gumming up the thread, well to bad. I consider "gumming up the thread" having the thread get stuck on an issue and not being able to move forward, which is exactly what your refusing to respond has been doing. You are literally a blockage in the gamethread pipeline by refusing to respond. You might accuse me of pushing more content through the pipeline, but not of deliberately blocking the pipeline.

Explain your FingerSplint read after 6 of their posts?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

This seems like a healthy and productive thread state

[fingersplints]

“Y’all dumb” really doesn’t win any favours with me. I was willing to give this debate the benefit of town vs town but posts like that just make me defensive, even if I wasn’t specifically addressed in it, my name has been brought up in the conversation between Alison and seanzie (who I keep reading as “sneezy”) that I feel compelled to address.

I don’t see what Alison is ignoring, or what is wrong with giving a town read on someone off of a little. These early reads are bound to change. Someone else posted a “v” after me which apparently means good, but that read wasn’t questioned, so why this one? Why now? Again I don’t really see what was ignored here. As of right now, I’m not seeing anything different from Alison’s (limited) town play I have seen.
I’m still thinking about giving Seanzie the benefit of the doubt for now, because I could honestly see this being town who thinks they’ve caught something major early. However I’m a bit worried that without any answers to this debate or will continue to monopolise the thread until it is resolved.

She said you were "comfortable in the thread" at a time when you had exactly 6 posts and most other people were at 30+ posts. Minimally at a surface level, low posting does not look comfortable, so if she is giving that read, she must be seeing something that makes her think you are comfortable. Maybe you were comfortable, maybe you weren't, but she refused to explain what she was seeing that made her think you were comfortable. Which of those first 6 posts were comfortable? Can she give any indication that it is a true thought, and not something she made up? Who knows at this point.

I'm at the "y'all dumb" point now because it has been hours that I have been trying to get any sort of response from her and she refuses to interact with me, and I've asked people to help me indirectly interact with her, and no one has helped me. I'm trying my ass off, Alison is dodging creating content, and people aren't helping me. I call that people being dumb because it is clearly best-play to get to the bottom of this, but Alison won't respond to my questioning, and no one is helping.

Quality over quantity. I stand by what I said in my other posts. There are so many fluff posts in some of those 30 plus people to the point I don’t think you can argue contributions simply by the post count number.

I really don’t want to be defending Alison here, because the only person I’m confident on is myself right now. But she did just play a game with me, so maybe she was trying to give insight others couldn’t, or maybe one of those 6 posts just rightfully struck her as town. I do believe the later to be definitely true as I’m sure she mentioned my questioning of a read of LC. So what other answer are you expecting other than saying that post?
Let’s try this a different way. Do you think I have been uncomfortable in the thread?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Fingers may be my top townread tbh

[Alison]

Fingers may be my top townread tbh

Yeah fingers has been really townie.

[Ratrug]

Ratrug and ts account are in the appropriate position to be the third mafia.

Why is that?

Because I believe the first two mafia are BK and Seanzie, and if BK and Seanzie are mafia then they entered the thread by loudly distancing. And if they entered the thread by loudly distancing it suggests that their third member is afk and probably someone neither of them know. You and ts account fit that bill; for instance I don't think BK and Seanzie would play this day the way they did if Esooa or Nanook was the third. fingersplints is a candidate but they're sufficiently townie that they aren't my highest suspect.

Now this relies on a few assumptions so I wasn't as confident that it had to be exactly you two. But luckily your beetlejuice has affirmed my suspicions on you, so I feel good that I'm on the right track.

Well I’m obviously going to call out when I’m being suspected mafia with one post.

Plus I’m not quite sure how I feel about your beetlejuice comment, seems like you just wanted to seem productive and call out an inactive in hopes they’d respond, but even if they didn’t respond, you still have the fuel to scum read them based off of your assumption.

As you said, this all relies on your assumptions, and your assumption on me is wrong.

[c4e5g3d5]

LC getting on Seanzie for writing style has my attention.

In a "That's a BS reason to sus someone", or a "Yeah that's a good point" way?

Former.

It's not a BS reason. I mean, I don't think it's a read I'd make here, but writing style is definitely a way to read people.

If you know them really well, sure. I don't get the impression that LC knows Seanzie very well, and uh... I suspect this writing style is normal for Seanzie, for reasons.

I'd guess LC knows me better than you do, even though you are right, me writing something like "calm my qualms" is something NAI for me. What are your reasons for thinking so?

Reasons that won't be discussed during this game.

[c4e5g3d5]

what is everyones read on fingersplits?

v

[ts account]

what is everyones read on fingersplits?

they are undoubtedly Sleepy

[c4e5g3d5]

For the reason in the post you quoted. Because Bo's reaction is tempered in a very hard-to-fake way, not overreacting and shrinking away too much, and no false bravado at the same time. Just gives a quiet "wtf" and moves on with his life.

Oh but mainly Bo is towny and the reason you have to call them w/w is pretty hardcore reachy.

What do you make of the post I called "awkward"?

Thought it was comfortably in the range of an already awkward townie. Thought Bo was already awkward in the thread in general by then. Not really putting any weight on it.

[Ratrug]

@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@falcon45ca
@fingersplints
@MartinGG99
@Quin
@Ratrug
@ts account

I am mandating that you vote someone when you see this

Most preferably within

"BoKnows
Falcon
Ratrun
TS account

Nanook if you're feeling spicy"

I haven’t read anything yet

Vote Ratrug

[c4e5g3d5]

Ratrug and ts account are in the appropriate position to be the third mafia.

Why is that?

Because I believe the first two mafia are BK and Seanzie, and if BK and Seanzie are mafia then they entered the thread by loudly distancing. And if they entered the thread by loudly distancing it suggests that their third member is afk and probably someone neither of them know. You and ts account fit that bill; for instance I don't think BK and Seanzie would play this day the way they did if Esooa or Nanook was the third. fingersplints is a candidate but they're sufficiently townie that they aren't my highest suspect.

Now this relies on a few assumptions so I wasn't as confident that it had to be exactly you two. But luckily your beetlejuice has affirmed my suspicions on you, so I feel good that I'm on the right track.

Wait there might be a point here with the beetlejuice. Cftwr?

[ts account]

Cftwr?

nope they're town good day

[fingersplints]

I’m rereading some of the thread now, but focusing on the Falcon suspicion as the vote is tied there currently.

Does anyone care to reiterate the case there?

[ts account]

I’m rereading some of the thread now, but focusing on the Falcon suspicion as the vote is tied there currently.

Does anyone care to reiterate the case there? :grin:

I copied Long Con's test answers