The Syndicate

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Oooo @Quin is here. Excited to hear his take on all this.

I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:34 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:31 pm Alright let's not mass claim then. My claim's gonna continue to exist though.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:07 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:06 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:38 am Placing my vote on Sprityo mainly because he replaced into this game and has used that as an excuse to be a low-profile player. Which makes it super easy to slip by as scum. I don't trust him.

oh no, is that lunalee criticizing me for being low activity?

in otherwords since most people have voted, i think it's a good time to bring up I used a thunderbird last night. So no voted fuckery is happening today. let's see if/how wagons change.

Care to share any of your other actions?

oprah

sprit is one person

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?

I stand by my theory Colin wanted to waste a rezz. With the implication of fake flips.

If I were choosing between Colin and sprit, I'd lynch Colin first right now. But self-preservation is on the menu for me now, so if things stay the way they are I'll need to stay on sprit. I'm okay with him too.

I also remain open to other options.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?

I stand by my theory Colin wanted to waste a rezz. With the implication of fake flips.

I do not remember this theory. Care to refresh me?

Here's a deal sloonei: if you read and educate yourself on colin's lynch-and-rez-me debacle without my help I'll move my vote to him.

maybe quin will answer you though whatever. we'll see

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:07 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:06 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:38 am Placing my vote on Sprityo mainly because he replaced into this game and has used that as an excuse to be a low-profile player. Which makes it super easy to slip by as scum. I don't trust him.

oh no, is that lunalee criticizing me for being low activity?

in otherwords since most people have voted, i think it's a good time to bring up I used a thunderbird last night. So no voted fuckery is happening today. let's see if/how wagons change.

Care to share any of your other actions?

and tell the mafia what my spells are? no thanks

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:59 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?

I stand by my theory Colin wanted to waste a rezz. With the implication of fake flips.

I do not remember this theory. Care to refresh me?

Early on Colin kept talking about wanting to be lynched so he could be rezzed as confirmed town. The logic behind it is counter-productive and wasteful, and it didn't feel genuine as he said it.

Given that Polyjuice potion (a potion that lets you transform into someone else for a time) is such a prominent thing in the series I'm not struggling to see scum Colin wanting to get lynched, flip civ and get rezzed.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:05 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:59 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.

I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?

I stand by my theory Colin wanted to waste a rezz. With the implication of fake flips.

I do not remember this theory. Care to refresh me?

Early on Colin kept talking about wanting to be lynched so he could be rezzed as confirmed town. The logic behind it is counter-productive and wasteful, and it didn't feel genuine as he said it.

Given that Polyjuice potion (a potion that lets you transform into someone else for a time) is such a prominent thing in the series I'm not struggling to see scum Colin wanting to get lynched, flip civ and get rezzed.

I remember this now. I wasn't struck by it in any particular way. "Lynch and rez me" is an easy thing to say for scum who's facing a lynch regardless of whether there's anything behind that plea. The nonchalance of it is a good bet to be enough to turn people away.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:01 am Here's a deal sloonei: if you read and educate yourself on colin's lynch-and-rez-me debacle without my help I'll move my vote to him.

how's about you just move it anyway?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:14 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:05 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:59 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am
I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?

Hell no you didn't.

Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?

I stand by my theory Colin wanted to waste a rezz. With the implication of fake flips.

I do not remember this theory. Care to refresh me?

Early on Colin kept talking about wanting to be lynched so he could be rezzed as confirmed town. The logic behind it is counter-productive and wasteful, and it didn't feel genuine as he said it.

Given that Polyjuice potion (a potion that lets you transform into someone else for a time) is such a prominent thing in the series I'm not struggling to see scum Colin wanting to get lynched, flip civ and get rezzed.

I remember this now. I wasn't struck by it in any particular way. "Lynch and rez me" is an easy thing to say for scum who's facing a lynch regardless of whether there's anything behind that plea. The nonchalance of it is a good bet to be enough to turn people away.

He wasn't facing a lynch though. He wasn't under any pressure besides a bit of nagging from Mac. That's what made it so disingenuous.

That’s... weird. Weird doesn’t necessarily mean bad.

The best civilian justification I can come up with for that is indifference.

I've gone back and forth in my head on Colin theories so much I just started typing out a post demonstrating why it makes him look like scum and halfway through I realized my argument didn't really make sense and I can't find a reasonable scum motivation for what I was implying him to have been doing. Goddamnit this game is frustrating.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:11 am I've gone back and forth in my head on Colin theories so much I just started typing out a post demonstrating why it makes him look like scum and halfway through I realized my argument didn't really make sense and I can't find a reasonable scum motivation for what I was implying him to have been doing. Goddamnit this game is frustrating.

Let's say neither Colin nor me is scum. Who's next?

Notably though, contrary to my erroneous memory, he never brought up nor acknowledged the point that the rezzes may have been in the wrong hands, despite his constant attention to/frustration at the lack of rezzes for the first few phases. The point I was starting to make was that he conveniently ignored this point (which was brought up by DH on D3) and claimed to want a lynch+rez, perhaps knowing that the scum had one.

The problem that I realized was that (a) I don't think this game has false flips, even with Quin's theory and (b) even if Colin wouldn't have a fake flip and was going for getting rezzed as a confirmed baddie, why would he do that? At that point in the game the mafia was down two people already and Colin was not facing much suspicion as Quin has pointed out so had no reason to "throw in the towel." But, maybe that's what he wanted us to think and thought that it would make him look like a civ who was so sure he would come back innocent and someone would want to rez him, but then that's circular because he wouldn't get lynched and that buys him town cred, so this actually doesn't rely on the scum team having a rez at all..... (which I guess they probably didn't if they just redirected glorfiets' rez) god never mind any of this I can't make any sense of anything anymore and I'ma stop typing gibberish and go to bed hopefully everything will be clear in the morning

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:13 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:11 am I've gone back and forth in my head on Colin theories so much I just started typing out a post demonstrating why it makes him look like scum and halfway through I realized my argument didn't really make sense and I can't find a reasonable scum motivation for what I was implying him to have been doing. Goddamnit this game is frustrating.

Let's say neither Colin nor me is scum. Who's next?

kara, quin, sprityo. no particular order/the order keeps changing

I'm going back to [VOTE: kara] aubergine

most of my posts this phase could just be replaced with the math lady meme I'm having so much trouble sorting out this game, fuckin kudos to whoever the damn mafia are

also like. all due respect to the man but I'm never spending that much time on a goddamn jay exercise ever again. big load of help that was.

My biggest issue with Colin remains is current vote, but I can't deny a little bit of personal bias regarding that. I think it's a messy, low-effort vote and I can't ignore the possibility that it's pre-meditated. But I don't want to get tunnel vision either.

I still don't know if I see scum in kara's posts. They're new to mafia, and apparently know speedchuck IRL, so I don't really question the floo situation all that much. It seems reasonable in this light. They've been kinda quiet and off the radar, but again, that's not something alarming for a first-time player.

Somewhere along the line I saw something from kara that struck me as genuine, but I can't remember what it was off the top of my head. I'd be open to a case on them, but I don't have one and haven't been convinced by one yet.

I've kind of started to ignore a lot of the role claim stuff because there's too many moving parts and pieces that don't seem to fit. As such, I don't know what to make of yesterday's mess and am back to reading Quin on tone alone, which has him as a civilian in my book. If I had any confidence that I could put the pieces of this game together accurately, he'd be a suspect.

sprit's our resident lurker and I've detailed what I don't like about him already.

Poutanko and timmer are two names I keep glancing at. We've all given them a pass for their role claims, but apparently we don't actually have a shred of evidence to confirm either of their claims. Poutanko's ID on speedchuck was wrong and timmer has killed 0 people as a vigilante. My vote was on timmer prior to his role claim. I dropped the suspicion because of the circumstances surrounding it. Maybe it would be worth looking into him again.
I've never played with Poutanko before and was town-reading her prior to the cop claim. I have been wondering if "ballsy cop claim out of nowhere as scum" is something that would be in her playbook. I have no way of knowing right now.

Then that brings me to Mac and Jack. I don't have a solid read on either of them, but have come to a place of tentative trust in each of them for reasons that I can't clearly define. I have not done much digging into either of them. I think of everybody I've just named, I'd be most interested in hearing reads, one way or the other, on these two, because I don't know. On a pure gut level I feel like they both care about solving this game.

The rest (dh, nutella, luna, juliets) are all firm town reads and it would take something wackadoo to change my mind.

This started out as a simple response to nutella's list of names, but then I started calibrating my thoughts on everybody to see how I'd feel about them all. I have a lot of uncertainties. I spent too much of yesterday trying to figure out what was happening with roles and not enough time looking at players. In a more easy-to-consume format:

Players I'd willingly vote for right now:
Colin
sprit

Players I'd consider voting for:
kara
Poutanko

Players I might be convinced to vote for, but am not currently inclined to do so:
Quin
timmer
Mac
Jack

Players I ain't voting for:
dharmahelper
juliets
lunalee
nutella

I just realized the "players I'd consider voting for" section might as well read "stranger danger".

This may be a good time for a game of Operation Trustfall when we have a crowd of people around.

says the guy bout to get pwnt

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:48 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:46 pm Sloonei’s putting up a hell of a fight but if he’s not scum I’ll eat G-Man’s dictionary.

You're excessively confident for someone who's not even trying to figure out what's going on.

I don’t know why you keep saying that. I have read every post in this thread, which is more than you can say, and I am very aware of the arguments being put forth. Get outta here with this baseless “Colin isn’t paying attention” shit.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:00 pm Non-personal reason for disliking Colin's vote:

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:34 am There is a lot of stuff that happened since my last post. Since I am more clueless than before, I will stick with my POE.

[VOTE: SLOONEI] aubergine

I think Owner, upon further reflection, was being bussed by INH. I think Owner also looked terrible, and I think Sloonei, upon inheriting the rolecard, has done his best to appear somewhat unengaged or separated from the action, and I think it’s an act. I’m sticking with this vote unless a new, compelling argument is made for someone else.

He expresses a tentative commitment to his vote despite, evidently, not being informed on the current state of the thread. It's hard to call this anything other than a pre-meditated, calculated vote in that light. His confidence is offset by the hedging statement, "I'm sticking with this unless a new argument comes along." Alright, cool, so like every vote ever? This sentence seems to exist just to emphasize his confidence in the vote while also leaving the door open to pivot to something better.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:53 pm I’ve given my reads. My POE remains the same without further developments.

And if you think I’m “stuck,” well, oh well. Owner did you no favors regardless of alignment and only fell off my radar because I thought INH wouldn’t bus that hard. But I’ve changed my mind. Nothing you’ve done since has signaled to me that you’re town on your own merit either, so ... here we are.

He does not deny that his read comes from Day 1. He then tries to lend strength to it by waving his hand at the 200+ posts I've made in this game. I pressed him to actually present a read on me, but he's shown an unwillingness to do so:

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:04 pm You haven’t done anything I can recall other than pop in to say you haven’t read the thread, deflect from the Owner arguments and defend yourself a lot. If you feel I’m minimizing your contributions then I apologize.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced the “script” was to bus Owner when it became clear she fucked up and then INH died unexpectedly changing the game a bit. Nothing will convince me otherwise until I see your flip and I really mean nothing.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:26 pm I’m not interested in arguing the point further Sloonei. I’m not going to convince you to lynch yourself and your questions are things I’ve already addressed. Sorry.

"The point" which Colin is "not interested in arguing" is the merits of his vote. So in other words, Colin isn't interested in justifying his vote. He just wants to leave it there because he's sure of it, but not sure enough to actually defend, and also he's going to change it if he can get another civilian lynched.

This vote is bogus. The "script" is to say that LC saved Owner a month ago.

If I’m such a dirty rotten liar why isn’t your vote on me?

Agree with nutella re: Sloonei targeting sprit.

Re: the rezzes. I say dumb thoughtless shit as civ. Look it up. I am calculated as scum. Look it up. You wanna lynch me because you have a conspiracy boner about some game mechanic you think exists then go ahead and use your cosmic brains but when I flip you better fucking lynch Sloonei.

Sloonei literally scumslipped. Look at the timestampd on those posts about “five scum.” A civ doesn’t make that belabored correction that much later.

If the phase ends tonight I may not be here before then, so don’t fuck this up.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:18 am Notably though, contrary to my erroneous memory, he never brought up nor acknowledged the point that the rezzes may have been in the wrong hands, despite his constant attention to/frustration at the lack of rezzes for the first few phases. The point I was starting to make was that he conveniently ignored this point (which was brought up by DH on D3) and claimed to want a lynch+rez, perhaps knowing that the scum had one.

The problem that I realized was that (a) I don't think this game has false flips, even with Quin's theory and (b) even if Colin wouldn't have a fake flip and was going for getting rezzed as a confirmed baddie, why would he do that? At that point in the game the mafia was down two people already and Colin was not facing much suspicion as Quin has pointed out so had no reason to "throw in the towel." But, maybe that's what he wanted us to think and thought that it would make him look like a civ who was so sure he would come back innocent and someone would want to rez him, but then that's circular because he wouldn't get lynched and that buys him town cred, so this actually doesn't rely on the scum team having a rez at all..... (which I guess they probably didn't if they just redirected glorfiets' rez) god never mind any of this I can't make any sense of anything anymore and I'ma stop typing gibberish and go to bed hopefully everything will be clear in the morning

I'm glad someone as smart as nutella had this feeling because it's exactly how I felt last night. There have been so many arguments for different people being scum that I'm having trough knowing which way to turn. The latest issue re: timmer having no proof he is the vig even has me looking at him. Well, I need to start reading Sloonei to see if I can make sense out of his and owner's posts because the only thing I can really remember all have to do with Owner. And good morning everyone!

EBWOP: trouble* not trough ^

My phone is working better so I actually might pop in but I have a lot to do at work and I’m not changing my vote anyway, so.

Is it time to self pres? My apologies if you waste a day just to lynch me and learn I was civilian again. [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

Actually on the off chance Sloonei is actually town, I’d rather we not lynch him then me, so have at it you glorious heathens.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 am [VOTE: quin] aubergine

You should probably vote yourself on the off-chance I'm town too.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:23 am also like. all due respect to the man but I'm never spending that much time on a goddamn jay exercise ever again. big load of help that was.

The point of the excercise is to tie and untie. It’s supposed to be helpful when someone flips good to find their partner(s). It’s not helpful yet but let’s not dismiss it so quickly.

*flips bad

@Quin @Sloonei

What do you think of my assertion that Colin can only be mafia if Pout is mafia and even then, it requires Pout to play in a needlessly risky fashion?

Furthermore, if this is the case, that’s probably the mafia. Pout and Colin. Your other suspects are all town.

Does this affect your scumread on Colin at all? Is a Pout/Colin scumteam plausible to you?

Anyone else who suspects Colin but is Pout agnostic or pro Pout should answer this question.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:36 am @Quin @Sloonei

What do you think of my assertion that Colin can only be mafia if Pout is mafia and even then, it requires Pout to play in a needlessly risky fashion?

Furthermore, if this is the case, that’s probably the mafia. Pout and Colin. Your other suspects are all town.

Does this affect your scumread on Colin at all? Is a Pout/Colin scumteam plausible to you?

Anyone else who suspects Colin but is Pout agnostic or pro Pout should answer this question.

I don't know why pout has to be mafia when I think of my own theory of why Colin is bad. But to talk about pout, I'm at least wary about the idea that scum pout would cop claim so...openly? If that's the word for it. Pout's been wrong about one check already and if Colin is bad that makes two. It's suicidal.

Bedtime. I doubt I'll be up for EoD, so if it does wind up being me then just make sure the hallow goes to a consensus town read. I'd give it to DH or Mac.

@DharmaHelper

About Sloonei. There’s wrong and there’s teamed. If it wasn’t, would you still be voting for him?

I’m cause wrong but if that’s not what you’re thinking, this is a mistake.

If that makes sense.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:36 am @Quin @Sloonei

What do you think of my assertion that Colin can only be mafia if Pout is mafia and even then, it requires Pout to play in a needlessly risky fashion?

Furthermore, if this is the case, that’s probably the mafia. Pout and Colin. Your other suspects are all town.

Does this affect your scumread on Colin at all? Is a Pout/Colin scumteam plausible to you?

Anyone else who suspects Colin but is Pout agnostic or pro Pout should answer this question.

>says the guy who formed new wagon on Glorfindel to counter LC/Colin wagon
>says the guy who's suspected by Jay as Blendy guy, 1st person to be analyzed deeply by him, you even showed you're nervous when he did it

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:53 am @DharmaHelper

About Sloonei. There’s wrong and there’s teamed. If it wasn’t, would you still be voting for him?

I’m cause wrong but if that’s not what you’re thinking, this is a mistake.

If that makes sense.

Hopefully this is secret Floo speak and not you having a stroke?