The Syndicate

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:20 pm**

Thank you, Sloonei.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:21 pm**

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:54 pmIt's not shade, I expressed an actual scumlean, just didn't feel the need to point that being generic means scum.

Nah, it's kind of a roundabout way to go about it imo. You did feel the need to explain that you voted Tony for pressure and that having wagons D1 is good for game development, which is way more obvious as I see it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:24 pm**

Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:12 pm [Timmer is scum]

Can someone tell me about Rej's meta? Cause this post is so weird.
Lots of people have expressed suspicion on Rej. Why would Timmer be the opportunistic one?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:25 pm**

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:59 pmDon't try to act like what I did there with the town read wasn't a joke cause it was.

I actually didn't read it like that. But ok

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:31 pm**

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:02 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:46 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:36 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:27 pm Dyslexicon looks generic at first glance
Is that shade or something? Does it say something about my alignment? Who would be the most intersting player to flip for you right now?
This was my first thought too; though I don’t think it’s accurate. My guess on generic = has similar reads to him.

I’ll answer one of the questions: rej flip is the obvious answer, but I think Drago or Epi is the more interesting bet.
Tony, if these would be the most interesting to have lynched why are you voting for Jack? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean about rej, Drago, or Epi.

Drago and Epi are both townish players I’m bound to be paranoid about as the game goes on. Not good candidates for a day 1 lunch, but there’s enough of an interaction train that they’d provide some info. I don’t have any personal vibes from Rej (we haven’t interacted yet I don’t think) so I’m not going to put a vote there.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:34 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:21 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:54 pmIt's not shade, I expressed an actual scumlean, just didn't feel the need to point that being generic means scum.
Nah, it's kind of a roundabout way to go about it imo. You did feel the need to explain that you voted Tony for pressure and that having wagons D1 is good for game development, which is way more obvious as I see it.

somebody asked him about it though. It’s not like him providing the info makes his vote worth less on me as some have suggested and it could be a learning opportunity with someone not used to those things

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:36 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:34 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:21 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:54 pmIt's not shade, I expressed an actual scumlean, just didn't feel the need to point that being generic means scum.
Nah, it's kind of a roundabout way to go about it imo. You did feel the need to explain that you voted Tony for pressure and that having wagons D1 is good for game development, which is way more obvious as I see it.
somebody asked him about it though. It’s not like him providing the info makes his vote worth less on me as some have suggested and it could be a learning opportunity with someone not used to those things

As I can tell a syndicate meta has kind of developed for Creature giving short posts with some amount of substance but little backing and then getting attacked for it. I don’t think an explanation should be attacked because it’s what we’ve been asking for but it doesn’t align with the typical meta I’ve seen from town Creature.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:39 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:19 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:46 pmThis was my first thought too; though I don’t think it’s accurate. My guess on generic = has similar reads to him.

I’ll answer one of the questions: rej flip is the obvious answer, but I think Drago or Epi is the more interesting bet.
Generic being same reads doesn't make sense to me.
But I do agree Drag probably would be the most exciting flip

I’m just expressing that you gave your town reads and I was like “hey those are my town reads he should get creative and get his own”.
Obviously that’s a stupid sentiment but that was my first reaction, and I thought it might have been Creatures too.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:40 pm**

The part that really confuses me about rej is that he doesn't even know me from a mafia standpoint. If epig or sloonei come at me, for instance, even if I disagree with whatever they might be saying, or I know they are wrong etc. I know that they would theoretically be working from a position of familiarity with my game. But rej is working from the 2nd post of day 1 which was me not helping him and he's just stood there on it, even after people called us teammates which he knows is wrong.

It's a very odd stance to take with a player whose style you don't know.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 pm**

Question for Creature... when you called dyslexicon generic, was that from a very familiar pov, as in "i know his game and this generic style im seeing often means he's bad?" Or just a more generalized ""his posts are blendy"

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:04 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:29 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:26 pmSo Long Con, haven’t seen you much yet this game. What are your thoughts thusfar?
Haven't read the last few pages yet. I saw Michelle tried to shade me for the chess, and Dom said he'd vote for me if it continued... those things are sketchy to me, chess isn't alignment-indicative. I don't really have a solid opinion on most people at this time.

1. d4 d5
2. e4 dxe4

you seem far more interested in playing chess than mafia.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:26 pm Hey, who are we mislynching today?

This is like when a member of congress decries the lack of oversight on the executive when they're the ones responsible for the oversight.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:05 pm**

[VOTE: rej] aubergine

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:49 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:04 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:29 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:26 pmSo Long Con, haven’t seen you much yet this game. What are your thoughts thusfar?
Haven't read the last few pages yet. I saw Michelle tried to shade me for the chess, and Dom said he'd vote for me if it continued... those things are sketchy to me, chess isn't alignment-indicative. I don't really have a solid opinion on most people at this time.

1. d4 d5
2. e4 dxe4
you seem far more interested in playing chess than mafia.
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:26 pm Hey, who are we mislynching today?
This is like when a member of congress decries the lack of oversight on the executive when they're the ones responsible for the oversight.

We’re two and a half turns in he doesn’t seem too interested in the chess either.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:59 pm**

Tomorrow I will be traveling and am not sure I'll be around for EOD so I'm going to go ahead and place a vote on Rej.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:15 pm**

Is self voting allowed here? I feel like scum myself right now. My stance on timmers is clear, I tried to pull out a neutral read there without digging into someone's meta. Guy basically OMGUS vote me, instead of taking a proper stance. I fos him for a reason beyond simply "not helping". I fos him for a whole mentality and I reasoned that.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:18 pm**

I'm sorry man, I've explained myself pretty well, I think.

Could you offer some thoughts on other players in the game? Who are your other scumreads?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 pm**

Rej, I went back over your case again and have re-printed it here below in the spoiler. I don't rule out changing my mind about you but I see a lot of things in your case about timmer that just don't make sense. Plus, I'm really stuck on the fact you voted timmer just because he told you to read the thread. It looked like an overreaction or as I said earlier, that ya'll are teammates. Please answer my questions after the spoiler about your case.

Spoiler: show

So here are some things I just don't get:

1. Why are you calling your question about someone summarizing Day 0 a "bait" question? Bait for what? It looked like a normal question from someone who was not caught up.

2. You said timmer threw shade at you but I didn't see his comment that it was just 4 pages you could read it as shade. You said "if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me." What does that mean, follow the same interest as you?

2. What do you mean when you say timmer "got rid of your wagon"? I don't remember there being a wagon on timmer. The paragraph did not make sense to me.

3. At the end you call timmer totally opportunistic. I don't get that - can you explain further? You voted for him first, not the other way around.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 pm**

Also, what is fos?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:49 pm**

[mention]Rej[/mention] sorry I forgot to "mention" you. Please see my long post above ^ ^ with questions for you.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:46 pm**

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 pm Rej, I went back over your case again and have re-printed it here below in the spoiler. I don't rule out changing my mind about you but I see a lot of things in your case about timmer that just don't make sense. Plus, I'm really stuck on the fact you voted timmer just because he told you to read the thread. It looked like an overreaction or as I said earlier, that ya'll are teammates. Please answer my questions after the spoiler about your case.

Spoiler: show
Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:12 pm @timmer
I am still convinced that you are bad, the way the wagon got turned on me is prove enough.

First of all: You were also one of those that didn't fully track D0, so in order for you to contribute you jumped on my bait question and threw shades on me for not reading up myself. But at that point you also weren't updated, so if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me.

What I see you being an extremly opportunistic player and that this doesn't follow a civillian mindset. First your jump on my bait, then you magically getting rid of my wagon is well played. But tbh only the baddies play like that.

I will tell you what will happen: I will get lynched this DP, while my vote stays on you. And after that it will be clear that our case is V/W case.
A V/W case where the wolf is totally opportunistic going against civillians.

I think I described it correctly, what do you think?
So here are some things I just don't get:

1. Why are you calling your question about someone summarizing Day 0 a "bait" question? Bait for what? It looked like a normal question from someone who was not caught up.

2. You said timmer threw shade at you but I didn't see his comment that it was just 4 pages you could read it as shade. You said "if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me." What does that mean, follow the same interest as you?

2. What do you mean when you say timmer "got rid of your wagon"? I don't remember there being a wagon on timmer. The paragraph did not make sense to me.

3. At the end you call timmer totally opportunistic. I don't get that - can you explain further? You voted for him first, not the other way around.

You are saying it for yourself, I was just asking a normal question. You are underlining this statement right? So this means a normal question deserves normal answers right? Normal answers that tend to help me get into and cooperate with people (civillians) right?
So again a civillian, especially one who hasn't cought up himself is telling me to read it myself. I still think it was timmer's convenient way in bringing his own DP forward to look like civillian. I tend to never townread people like him and it's often correct.

Especially when I am new in an enviroment it is good to have some quick summaries in order to get those people help the civs.

Timmer had a wagon of 3 votes on him, while I was offline the "wagon" got change on me. It was again opportunistic same as when he gave his convenient answer to my summary question. Would a civillian do that? I just had my eyes open and I am convinced I cought a bad guy. While timmer is playing opportunistic and turned everything against me.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:47 pm**

[mention]juliets[/mention]

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:51 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:36 pmAs I can tell a syndicate meta has kind of developed for Creature giving short posts with some amount of substance but little backing and then getting attacked for it. I don’t think an explanation should be attacked because it’s what we’ve been asking for but it doesn’t align with the typical meta I’ve seen from town Creature.

Not really attacking the explanation as such, but I do have an interest in questioning Creature on his read/comment on me. If it's the same Creature that plays on MU, I at least know they're experienced and capable. I have my guards up a bit because in my experience players who doesn't know me likes to take cheap shots at me when scum and think I can be an easy target.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:52 pm**

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:40 pm The part that really confuses me about rej is that he doesn't even know me from a mafia standpoint. If epig or sloonei come at me, for instance, even if I disagree with whatever they might be saying, or I know they are wrong etc. I know that they would theoretically be working from a position of familiarity with my game. But rej is working from the 2nd post of day 1 which was me not helping him and he's just stood there on it, even after people called us teammates which he knows is wrong.

It's a very odd stance to take with a player whose style you don't know.

Yeah now I definitely don't get that tunnel. o.o

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:59 pm**

[mention]Rej[/mention] I really don't think it's unreasonable or even not town-like for someone to ask you to read D0 for yourself. It was 4 pages as they said. And they hadn't read it themselves. Like, it just doesn't seem that strange to me to answer that.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] You've mentioned a couple of times that you haven't paid much attention to the Timmer/Rej deal. I would like for you to give whatever thoughts you do have anyway. I don't really understand why you're avoiding this.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:02 pm**

Also, [mention]Rej[/mention] - Don't self vote. Really.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:04 pm**

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:26 pm**

Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:15 pm Is self voting allowed here? I feel like scum myself right now. My stance on timmers is clear, I tried to pull out a neutral read there without digging into someone's meta. Guy basically OMGUS vote me, instead of taking a proper stance. I fos him for a reason beyond simply "not helping". I fos him for a whole mentality and I reasoned that.

lol

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:30 pm**

Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:46 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 pm Rej, I went back over your case again and have re-printed it here below in the spoiler. I don't rule out changing my mind about you but I see a lot of things in your case about timmer that just don't make sense. Plus, I'm really stuck on the fact you voted timmer just because he told you to read the thread. It looked like an overreaction or as I said earlier, that ya'll are teammates. Please answer my questions after the spoiler about your case.

Spoiler: show
Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:12 pm @timmer
I am still convinced that you are bad, the way the wagon got turned on me is prove enough.

First of all: You were also one of those that didn't fully track D0, so in order for you to contribute you jumped on my bait question and threw shades on me for not reading up myself. But at that point you also weren't updated, so if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me.

What I see you being an extremly opportunistic player and that this doesn't follow a civillian mindset. First your jump on my bait, then you magically getting rid of my wagon is well played. But tbh only the baddies play like that.

I will tell you what will happen: I will get lynched this DP, while my vote stays on you. And after that it will be clear that our case is V/W case.
A V/W case where the wolf is totally opportunistic going against civillians.

I think I described it correctly, what do you think?
So here are some things I just don't get:

1. Why are you calling your question about someone summarizing Day 0 a "bait" question? Bait for what? It looked like a normal question from someone who was not caught up.

2. You said timmer threw shade at you but I didn't see his comment that it was just 4 pages you could read it as shade. You said "if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me." What does that mean, follow the same interest as you?

2. What do you mean when you say timmer "got rid of your wagon"? I don't remember there being a wagon on timmer. The paragraph did not make sense to me.

3. At the end you call timmer totally opportunistic. I don't get that - can you explain further? You voted for him first, not the other way around.
You are saying it for yourself, I was just asking a normal question. You are underlining this statement right? So this means a normal question deserves normal answers right? Normal answers that tend to help me get into and cooperate with people (civillians) right?
So again a civillian, especially one who hasn't cought up himself is telling me to read it myself. I still think it was timmer's convenient way in bringing his own DP forward to look like civillian. I tend to never townread people like him and it's often correct.

Especially when I am new in an enviroment it is good to have some quick summaries in order to get those people help the civs.

Timmer had a wagon of 3 votes on him, while I was offline the "wagon" got change on me. It was again opportunistic same as when he gave his convenient answer to my summary question. Would a civillian do that? I just had my eyes open and I am convinced I cought a bad guy. While timmer is playing opportunistic and turned everything against me.

So... here is how mafia works for me. You make a case against me. I defend against it. Everyone else reads both sides and judges for themselves. Their conclusions can range from "i think they are both civ" all the way to "i think they are both bad" and evening in between.

But you seem to think that my defending myself has been an opportunistic Mafioso move and that the players who have moved their votes off of me and/or onto you have all been bamboozled by me? What if... they simply don't agree with you? I mean, we are talking about some of the best mafia players I know, here, and while I maybe had a period of time where I was a good player, I've been largely retired and off my game for a long time. You really think that I've pulled a huge opportunistic play here and hoodwinked everyone, while meanwhile your case is uncrackable to anyone who will just read it?

Can I ask... where else have you played mafia, and for how long?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:31 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:26 pmlol

Is this something scum!Rej would do? I've only seen them as town, and they claimed miller early and I trusted them pretty much the whole game.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:34 pm**

And rej, here is where i am trying to help you, but, as I've already asked you, what is your opinion on the other players? Who else do you suspect? I can tell you quite honestly, if you don't bother trying to study the rest of the game, I think you are toast.

So what else do you think?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:35 pm**

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 pm Question for Creature... when you called dyslexicon generic, was that from a very familiar pov, as in "i know his game and this generic style im seeing often means he's bad?" Or just a more generalized ""his posts are blendy"

[mention]Creature[/mention]

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:36 pm**

The latter.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:40 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:59 pm @Rej I really don't think it's unreasonable or even not town-like for someone to ask you to read D0 for yourself. It was 4 pages as they said. And they hadn't read it themselves. Like, it just doesn't seem that strange to me to answer that.

Yes, this. Rej you called your question a "bait" question but I don't see anything about it that is bait. So for timmer to answer it with 'it's only four pages read it yourself' sounds as normal as your question. What answer could he have given you that would have seemed civ since he couldn't give you a summary (because he hadn't read it)?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:00 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:31 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:26 pmlol
Is this something scum!Rej would do? I've only seen them as town, and they claimed miller early and I trusted them pretty much the whole game.

No clue.

[mention]timmer[/mention], don't love you downplaying your prowess. That doesn't have big civ energy.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:01 pm**

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:36 pmThe latter.

lol

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:08 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:00 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:31 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:26 pmlol
Is this something scum!Rej would do? I've only seen them as town, and they claimed miller early and I trusted them pretty much the whole game.
No clue.

@timmer, don't love you downplaying your prowess. That doesn't have big civ energy.

Dude, I'm serious about it, the last three games or so I've played, which represents prob a year and a half, were mostly just me melting down and throwing hissy fits. I truly do believe I've been off my game for a few years now.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:10 pm**

(See my epic flameout ragequit back in December in world asunder)

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:52 pm**

I pretty much judge everyone’s personality by their avatar so I’ve just assumed that Timmer is the epitome of Sadness.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:54 pm**

I need a new avatar, then because the last 6 months have transformed my life quite drastically...

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:15 pm**

I just assume Timmer has good taste in movies.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:21 pm**

What do you assume about me?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:34 pm**

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:54 pm I need a new avatar, then because the last 6 months have transformed my life quite drastically...

I have lots of busy avatars available for lending.

Why are people voting Rej?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:36 pm**

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 pm Also, what is fos?

Spoiler: show

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:42 pm**

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:34 pm
timmer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:54 pm I need a new avatar, then because the last 6 months have transformed my life quite drastically...
I have lots of busy avatars available for lending.

Why are people voting Rej?

Mostly because he made a weaksauce case against me and has refused to budge on it or to examine any other part of the game.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:45 pm**

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:52 am
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:42 am
Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:25 pm It doesn't need to be Tony if you can provide me an alternative person to put on check.
You're diminishing any value your vote has with crap like this. Do you actually believe in your vote at all? Or is it for shits and giggles?
Yes, I do believe my vote. Like, I wouldn't vote for someone I believe has a decent town equity. If I'm voting someone, it is because I can easily see that person being non-town.

Also, I don't votepark on a pet scumread. Usually that ends in a: what player ends looking the most annoying? rather than real non-town. We make wagons so we get to tell something about them and also prevent day stagnancy.

And you were comfortable erasing all pressure that comes from your vote by advertising that it's only 'for reactions'?

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:45 pm**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:04 pm [VOTE: Quin] aubergine

mmm...nah

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:46 pm**

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:39 amHe knows his suspicion is genuine. He can't say the same about yours. You should know that.

Does this mean you're town reading Rej?

No.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:46 pm**

was quoting dizzy ok

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:59 pm**

Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:21 pm What do you assume about me?

Bad taste in music.

Posted: **Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:59 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:21 pm What do you assume about me?
Bad taste in music.

That said I’ve got a Black Sabbath avatar.

The Syndicate

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