The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:46 pm im in hospital again so ez three day pass yeh?

I hope you’re okay!

can someone fill me in on the mech

i don't feel like playing until day 4

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

What do you think that means?

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:30 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

What do you think that means?

Dunno. That could just be the unique dynamic of understanding between Allcrab and lost monkey.

Just on pure probability though we're forced to take a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two identical pseudo-watchers targeted the same player on Night 1, and that both are town.

@Actvscenei The posts I pulled on Dana are just the ones that jumped out at me as containing AI stuff. I did comment on her reads lists, anything I didn’t quote just didn’t speak to me I guess xD our brains make reads in very different ways so all I can say is I’m fairly happy with my read there

Regarding gnome, possibly the posts I quoted are not the most concerning thing. What really stuck out to me was the number of questions she asked exclusively about owner yesterday in a way that didn’t seem to line up with her progressions. I’d definitely recommend looking through her ISO yourself, it’s not too long and contains very little lol. Also I’d expect a little bit more doubt from town!gnome here, her progression on me vs Martin today makes little sense and as far as I can tell the post that eventually stopped her from questioning whether I was scum was the “pretend I’m confirmed town” post I made, which she misread. But maybe I’m just salty that she’s being so close-minded. I look forward to laughing from the grave (okay I’m definitely salty). If you could sanity check me here and talk a bit about her meta that’d really help me tbh

Gotta go climbing again but I’ll do some more ISOs before day end just to annoy everyone who wishes they could daykill me xoxo

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:32 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:30 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

What do you think that means?

Dunno. That could just be the unique dynamic of understanding between Allcrab and lost monkey.

Just on pure probability though we're forced to take a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two identical pseudo-watchers targeted the same player on Night 1, and that both are town.

Why do you think they’d both be town? (I don’t understand mechanics haha). If both watchers could be town, do you think both healers could be town? Or does that mechanic not check out the same way?

Dana wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 3:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 2:57 am @Dana, would you be able and willing to provide a reads list? It doesn’t have to be super detailed, just your raw reads would be helpful.

Yes for sure, just got a lil busy with the real life but Ive been planning to work on a reads list sometime during this day phase

*cocks an eyebrow at Dana and taps watch expectantly*

Oh also JJJ made a post that was like “lol hawk is 3P hunting just like owner” which is a bad take for a number of reasons:
- I don’t remember owner doing this level of reading or substantiating ever
- It’s already been raised that we should eventually be concerned about 3P, and I clearly won’t be around for that so I’m getting it in early
- If I was mafia I would be 3P hunting in my scum chat and not the thread right now. Mafia need all the help they can get.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:42 am Why do you think they’d both be town? (I don’t understand mechanics haha). If both watchers could be town, do you think both healers could be town? Or does that mechanic not check out the same way?

My willingness to engage in alignment-based speculation about any role in this game is very low, and that's just a product of my experience with large closed Syndicate games (and both Marmot and Dizzy are well-versed in them to). I believe that nearly any role in this game can be town and can be mafia, and that applies to the alleged duplicates too. It is possible that both lost monkey and Allcrab are town, both limited watchers, and both targeted me -- it's that last portion that strikes me most. I'm a bit surprised each of them accepted the other with no questions asked, and there may be reasons for that related to their understanding of each other (perhaps like the unique understanding between Sloonei and I). I would need PerC's help to interpret that dynamic.

It's also possible that town has two healers. I wouldn't discount that. I'd find it redundant perhaps given that any publicly poisoned player is going to draw heals from both healers if they are town read. On that front I think it makes more sense to have one healer on the mafia side if there are indeed two. Sometimes what I think makes the most sense and what actually exists in a game don't entirely align, so I take all of that with a grain of salt. For that reason my read on hawkataine has been more based in behavioral assessment and the fact that even with Sloonei's possible protection, Gavial's role block can explain the lack of a Night 1 kill exactly until it cannot.

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:40 am @Actvscenei The posts I pulled on Dana are just the ones that jumped out at me as containing AI stuff. I did comment on her reads lists, anything I didn’t quote just didn’t speak to me I guess xD our brains make reads in very different ways so all I can say is I’m fairly happy with my read there

Regarding gnome, possibly the posts I quoted are not the most concerning thing. What really stuck out to me was the number of questions she asked exclusively about owner yesterday in a way that didn’t seem to line up with her progressions. I’d definitely recommend looking through her ISO yourself, it’s not too long and contains very little lol. Also I’d expect a little bit more doubt from town!gnome here, her progression on me vs Martin today makes little sense and as far as I can tell the post that eventually stopped her from questioning whether I was scum was the “pretend I’m confirmed town” post I made, which she misread. But maybe I’m just salty that she’s being so close-minded. I look forward to laughing from the grave (okay I’m definitely salty). If you could sanity check me here and talk a bit about her meta that’d really help me tbh

I’m AWFUL at reading gnome. In a discord game we played, gnome “scum slipped” like three times and was still town lol. But I’m interested in how others read her because of this. I feel like ISO’ing gnome is the last thing anyone should do because in concentration, gnome is going to look SUPER scummy. I take it with a grain of salt. Do you have a specific tell or way of reading gnome that isn’t just an ISO?

Yeah tbh on that note of role-based alignment spec, it was my thought as soon as there was hints of duplicates that
a) many roles will be duplicated and they are therefore not going to be alignment indicative because either you have every mafia have a duplicate role, which is outing, or you have 2 of every role, which is outing
b) this is a great trap that the mods have set for players who want to read by mechanics instead of play

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 am Oh also JJJ made a post that was like “lol hawk is 3P hunting just like owner” which is a bad take for a number of reasons:
- I don’t remember owner doing this level of reading or substantiating ever
- It’s already been raised that we should eventually be concerned about 3P, and I clearly won’t be around for that so I’m getting it in early
- If I was mafia I would be 3P hunting in my scum chat and not the thread right now. Mafia need all the help they can get.

You've since hunted a bit more than Owner did yes. I do recall though that initial interpretation of both Martin and Dana as 3P candidates, and the parallel stuck in my brain as I assessed the game traveling around on my phone. That was probably the single biggest motivator for me to park my vote on Owner during Day 2, so its a parallel that stands out to me.

If you're town then whatever legacy you leave is appreciated.

Also please don't turn my posts into memey spam by attaching "lol" to the front.

Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

Also sorry JJJ for making you into a meme, it might subconsciously happen again but I promise to feel bad about it xD

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:55 am Also sorry JJJ for making you into a meme, it might subconsciously happen again but I promise to feel bad about it xD

It's fine, I've recapped other people's posts in cheeky under-written italics in this very thread. I'm just being a baby.

If this phase didn't have a 10-vote wagon on your head right now, and you felt like you could place a vote of your own as normal and that it'd matter more -- where would you put it?

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 am Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

Well that’s what I mean too...her focus, her questions, her behavior has felt SO scummy to me in past games that I just don’t know where to even look with her. Your confidence and focus on gnome as someone who knows her has grabbed my attention because maybe you know more about her play than I do.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:57 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:55 am Also sorry JJJ for making you into a meme, it might subconsciously happen again but I promise to feel bad about it xD

It's fine, I've recapped other people's posts in cheeky under-written italics in this very thread. I'm just being a baby.

If this phase didn't have a 10-vote wagon on your head right now, and you felt like you could place a vote of your own as normal and that it'd matter more -- where would you put it?

If Sonny was still here it’d be on him and I’d be trying to make him answer my questions from yesterday
So I guess orange, but also I’ve played with her much less than I have Sonny

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:59 am

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 am Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

Well that’s what I mean too...her focus, her questions, her behavior has felt SO scummy to me in past games that I just don’t know where to even look with her. Your confidence and focus on gnome as someone who knows her has grabbed my attention because maybe you know more about her play than I do.

Yeah I mean I would be questioning her if she would respond to anything I’ve said with anything but a wolf emoji, and therefore I reserve the right to suspect her. Maybe you’ll have more luck tomorrow

Also hate how orange comes in today scum reading me from the start when I had pretty much universal town leans on D1 (where she’s reading) and she managed to successfully town read me when she repped into the one game we’ve payed together

I mean sure lol
[VOTE: orangecrush] aubergine

@Allcrab vote?
@bad bunny vote?
@Dana vote?
@lost monkey vote?
@orangecrush vote?

Regardless of hawk's alignment, I suspect there's mafia here. The wagon might be runaway, but this suggests complete disengagement.

I've an increasing suspicion that if there's a b/ser in the lost monkey/Allcrab pair, it's Allcrab -- and that his hard town read on bad bunny is cheap TMI meant to meet the expectation that he'd "correctly" read her. Because his contribution to the broader hunt otherwise is very low.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:11 am can someone fill me in on the mech

My own understanding is limited since I can barely follow the thread in real time right now, but nobody else answered you so:

Long Con seems to have given Sloonei a gift on Night 1, which is theorized to be a vest (unclear to me if a vest was intended or randomized or otherwise). If so this would provide an alternative account for the lack of a Night 1 kill.

Actually that might be it. If there's other new mechanical stuff I've ignored it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:32 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:30 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

What do you think that means?

Dunno. That could just be the unique dynamic of understanding between Allcrab and lost monkey.

Just on pure probability though we're forced to take a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two identical pseudo-watchers targeted the same player on Night 1, and that both are town.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:42 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:32 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:30 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:26 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 11:47 pm What specifically did allcrab and lomo claim?

Some sort of nerfed watcher. They both watched JJJ N1.

The weirdest thing about this is that both claimers just accepted each other without question.

What do you think that means?

Dunno. That could just be the unique dynamic of understanding between Allcrab and lost monkey.

Just on pure probability though we're forced to take a bit of a leap of faith to believe that two identical pseudo-watchers targeted the same player on Night 1, and that both are town.

Why do you think they’d both be town? (I don’t understand mechanics haha). If both watchers could be town, do you think both healers could be town? Or does that mechanic not check out the same way?

Yah the logic does not check out.

hawkataine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 am Sorry act I should clarify that gnome hasn’t been specifically scummy post-by-post, it’s more that her focuses and progressions have been weird. Hence why I think you have to ISO her to see that at the moment because it’s the easiest way to track what she’s been commenting on and what she’s been avoiding. But also I’m bad at reading her too xD

I do tend to be flaky and my progressions don't always make sense. I acknowledge that this is true, regardless of my alignment. If I seem like I'm avoiding stuff, it's probably because I don't see it. When i fall behind, I skim and miss things that are addressed to me. I try to comment on everything that I've actually seen but, for sure, miss plenty. None of this is AI, because I act the same, whether I am town or scum.

That being said, I see that you've voted Orange Crush. Why are you scum reading Orange Crush? You've probably already addressed this, but if you could say something, that would be a big help for me.

We are resolving between Hawk and Martin today.

And we’ll resolve between LoMo and AllCrab tomorrow.

Watchers are very powerful and i doubt we have two on our side.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 4:26 pm Shower bubbly water did not grant me magical scum-finding abilities, but I do think I can say more about why I am worried.

Town definitely looks good right now, we are doing very well by any measure. However, the game is very far from over, we don't have it in the bag in any way, shape or form. I am worried that we are being lulled into a bit of a false sense of security by our leaders, wither intentional or not, because how we lose a game like this is that we go into autopilot and just kind of assume things will continue to go well.

Especially for those who are town but are in the PoE and/or not contributing much, this is a great time to step up. Scum will be targeting you for mislunches as we move forward, and you need to start working NOW to stop that from happening. The game is not over, the game is not a clear town win. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Please, come, prove yourself town, or even just help us find the remaining scum. @Made, @MartinGG99 @Allcrab, @Garden Gnome, @lost monkey @bad bunny @Dana, I'm looking at you. Also @orangecrush, even though I get you just joined. This is where scum's ML's are going to come from, so those of you in this pile that are town, PLEASE PLEASE come participate more. Either show yourself as town, or at least make it so the wolves have to work/out themselves to get you mislunched.

id be shocked if this isnt town seanzie

didnt seanzie see actv visit kito?

i dont like this hawk wagon, wheres the resistance if shes wolf?

bad bunny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:53 am didnt seanzie see actv visit kito?

i dont like this hawk wagon, wheres the resistance if shes wolf?

You are the resistance lol

bad bunny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:53 am [VOTE: martin] aubergine

If you think Seanzie saw me visit Kito, why aren’t you voting for me?? Why is Martin a stronger scum read?

The whole me and crab thing got to stop, its just bad play to keep talking about it when even the two people who claimed it are not saying anything. If you want more it could be that all crab is the actual role and i am one shot.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:01 am The whole me and crab thing got to stop, its just bad play to keep talking about it when even the two people who claimed it are not saying anything. If you want more it could be that all crab is the actual role and i am one shot.

No. There is no way town has two watchers, so one of you has to be fakeclaiming cause Watcher is a very powerful role, it is considered an OP role in a lot of places. So for us to have two?
Nah

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 5:26 pm Gonna legit feel bad if we just killed Owner in part on a red check and are now sitting on two more correct red checks.

Other than hawk, who is the second one?

Did they claim watchers today or yesterday?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:06 am No. There is no way town has two watchers, so one of you has to be fakeclaiming cause Watcher is a very powerful role, it is considered an OP role in a lot of places. So for us to have two?
Nah

Its not technically a watcher and all crab didn't need to even claim it if he was scum when i revealed the info just before him. Don't try to think what the setup could be, you don't know what is there.

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:03 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:00 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:01 pm @hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?

Right now, I'm thinking that the scum could include bad bunny, martin, and made.

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:15 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:03 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:00 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:01 pm @hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?

Right now, I'm thinking that the scum could include bad bunny, martin, and made.

You think I’m teamed with made and/or Martin?

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:15 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:03 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:00 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:01 pm @hawkataine, do you really believe your ISO of gnome or...?? Lol the only thing from gnome that feels unlike what I know of her, is the sarcasm. I don’t recall gnome ever being this snarky and sarcastic in past games lol. Like, gnome’s got sass! Lol

It was fun, lol.

Aside from Hawk, who else do you think is scum?

Right now, I'm thinking that the scum could include bad bunny, martin, and made.

Gnome, I don’t see a world in which Hawk and Martin are scum together. What’s your thought process on that?

lost monkey wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:20 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 4:18 pm [VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

There is no way Mafia don't kill both jailkept players who are immune to any abilities but kills.

So mafia had 2 nks?

I had missed this. Yes, believing the JJJ claim (i still dont) of how things went down on his date with Gavial. The date is a night kill and the mafia’s factional kill it’s 2.
Mafia would have made sure to kill between the players that cant be protected (the date).

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:25 pm How exactly does your 2-shot healer work? It’s a day action? Why would you waste it knowing Alison was poisoned? How did you waste it? Like...who else would you have healed? Lol

You were roleblocked N1, does this roleblock extend into the day phase? Is that why you didn’t heal Alison?

If Gavial already claimed to have blocked your action, and everyone was calling you scum for it, why didn’t you claim then? It would have saved us a lot of time and speculation and may have clued us into Alison’s fate because for all you knew, Alison was about to be dead. If you’re town, and Alison is so clearly town (and someone who favors legacy reads), maybe it would have benefited town to know so Alison could potentially leave some reads.

Your timing for the claim does not align. The logics don’t fit.

[VOTE: HAWK] aubergine

Basically what i felt about hawk's post as well.

I really feel bad for hawk when she played so well on D1 and then everything going down on N1.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:24 am

Actvscenei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 7:25 pm How exactly does your 2-shot healer work? It’s a day action? Why would you waste it knowing Alison was poisoned? How did you waste it? Like...who else would you have healed? Lol

You were roleblocked N1, does this roleblock extend into the day phase? Is that why you didn’t heal Alison?

If Gavial already claimed to have blocked your action, and everyone was calling you scum for it, why didn’t you claim then? It would have saved us a lot of time and speculation and may have clued us into Alison’s fate because for all you knew, Alison was about to be dead. If you’re town, and Alison is so clearly town (and someone who favors legacy reads), maybe it would have benefited town to know so Alison could potentially leave some reads.

Your timing for the claim does not align. The logics don’t fit.

[VOTE: HAWK] aubergine

Basically what i felt about hawk's post as well.

Hawk has since claimed 1-shot healer

Am I seriously getting yeeted because everyone misread my claim post and thought I was trying to retcon when I clarified
I mean I’ve made my peace with my fate but
Lol game

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:05 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:02 pm Also multiple people have pointed out that there was a chance Gavial would kill JJJ simply because Gavial is a loose cannon. Not sure why that's hard to understand.

Who? I'd like to take a look cause it sounds like people trying to discredit someone with a redcheck. Dont you think?

I also felt that gavial would take jjj with him.