The Syndicate

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:28 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:17 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:20 pm God damn it I didn't want to care about this game...
mac wolf?
Don’t think so tbh

Sorry this is wrong

Yes he probably is but not cause of anything he’s done, cause of drago

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:28 am**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:23 am Maybe switch dunya and dizzy

You understand me! <3

Also, I now have seen your face, which makes you infinitely more towny, inherently. Buddies forever.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:29 am**

I don't think drago was necessarily a wolf. drago is just drago

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:29 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:27 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm Am currently at the top of page 4. My townpile is tutuu and nanook and my scumpile is nobody.
i wonder wjy u tr nanook if u say that the reason i tr them for is nai. u probably said this later but ill forget cuz im dumb so ill just send this post

No, I don't think it got explained yet.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:30 am**

i might have a dumb townread on alison but it will depend on her answer im just talking to myself here cuz again im airhead and will forgrt

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:30 am**

Why not have a Rej wagon? Good times.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:32 am**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:29 am I don't think drago was necessarily a wolf. drago is just drago

Look at the FTL game and you’ll see why I’m SRing him I think

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:33 am**

I also don’t mind a wagon on 7-poster rej tbh

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:33 am**

I'm a little too cognizant that votes don't mean anything.

Here's how I'm looking at D0 mindsets: scum wants to agree with bad plans or plans they think are easily exploitable. Dunya's plan comes to mind. They want to emphasize or create weaknesses in my plan or Proto's. They want to say things that are wrong. And they want to be quieter -- the game positions favor quieter players. Along these lines I think 5-6 names form an immediately available poe.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:34 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:29 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm Am currently at the top of page 4. My townpile is tutuu and nanook and my scumpile is nobody.
Can you talk about your Nanook read?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:16 pmdyslexicon is scum with drago for this post
That's creative.
Also, I'm town, and you've played with me before. =)

Nanook read - this is 50% tonal (good opener, engaged with people about mechanics in a way that felt open & honest, just generally putting themselves in the thread in a way that doesn't feel forced or agenda-pushy) and 50% content (engaged with multiple different people, strongly denied a derpclear). #82 was a post I liked. You don't often see scum telling other people to "project town" because they want other players to put in less effort and get read as a sketchball, not try hard, effortpost and look supertown.

Dyslexicon read - for context, it's page 5, you put down 7 relatively strong townreads and then 1 (tonally confident) scumread on Dragomir.

1) It's rare to have 7 townreads so early in the game. People's posts near the beginning of the game trend a lot more towards null stuff - "hi everyone"s, jokes and fluff, throwing around weak "maybe X is town/scum" based on meta or tone. Is it possible to look at 7 separate people and go "based on their early game posts, I think all of these people are likely to be town"? Yes, but it's pretty damn rare and smacks of buddying. The timing is also pretty sketchy because it came down right after the laser gun holder put you at their bottom of her list, giving you an incentive to try to earn some immediate towncred. You literally townread everyone who had more than like 0 or 1-2 posts, with the sole exception of...

2) Dragomir. Let's take a look at the four points of interaction you had with Dragomir before the readslist came out.

a) [in response to Dragomir's post #40] "scummy"

For context, post 40 was Dragomir's first post in the game, saying hello and that he'll be back in the morning. That isn't scum. It isn't town either. It's as close to null as I can imagine a post being. It doesn't even have much of a tone to read into. Why single that out for being scummy without any explanation?

b) [in response to Dragomir's post #78] "Why? I feel like wrapping my head around the strategy is what interests me the most right now, since there's several pretty simple ways to lose this game if we go about it the wrong way. Is it not interesting to you?"

#78 is a post that could actually be considered to be scummy, since Dragomir is intentionally refusing to try to engage with the setup meechanics and try to contribute to building a better protection scheme for town. I wouldn't read it as scummy personally since I know a few players who switch their brain off when detailed setup/mechanic discussion comes into play, but it's a plausible reason to try to read Dragomir as scummy. That's not what you do though. You respond with a probing question that's sort of neutral-ish. It's not particularly accusatory, it's not particularly supportive, it just wants to find out more about Dragomir's thoughts.

c) [in response to Dragomir's post #170] "Purple parts are scummy to me. It reads like you don't think the reasoning is valid like you're suspected for wrong reasons rather than the suspicion being wrong. Also, using Dunya's name just feels slimy. Like you're touching her shoulder and leaning forward but like in a scummy way. =p"

Of your three interactions with Dragomir, this is the one I find most genuine. It's a fair point, and it's believable that a towni would find this scummy and push Dragomir into the scumpool based off it.

d) [in response to dunya's post #162] "Also, I think if Drag is scum it's likelier that he TMIed Carrot as town when he challenged your scum read on her."

Dragomir's challenge of dunya's scum read is located in post #110. dunya voices suspicion of Carot for not gamesolving in her first post, and Dragomir says "Do you expect players to come right off the bat with game solving in their entry post?". This isn't TMI (although funnily enough, I'm going to argue that you and Dragomir are scum together because you TMI'd him). TMI is a type of scumslip whereby you have no reason to believe that someone is scum/town but somehow "know" that they're of that alignment, because you're scum and know everyone's alignments. That isn't what Dragomir is doing though. He's not arguing that Carot is one alignment or another - he's engaging with dunya's post and pointing out a flaw in the logic. Whether or not Carot is scum has no bearing on whether or not town players are expected to come out of the gate with game solving in their entry post. So this read doesn't make any sense to me.

My conclusion is that there's a suspicious gap in your attack on Dragomir. You take a null post and you leap straight to "this is scummy". You take an attack on dunya's logic and leap straight to "Dragomir has knowledge he shouldn't be having as a town member". What this sounds like to me is that you had a conclusion in mind - "I want to attack Dragomir" - and started combing through posts and making up reasons to scumread him rather than having those reads organically develop. That is scummy behavior, and points to either you trying really hard to get town!Dragomir mislynched or you trying to make up a reason to scumread scum!Dragomir early on so that you can point to it later as evidence that you suspected Dragomir all along to get towncred. I suspect it's the latter, because it's more natural for you to just wait for a townie to say something dumb (like I did) and then leap on them (which you did to me) rather than try to shoehorn some reasoning as to why a townie should die. The Dragomir slot going completely off the rails later on strengthens my scumread on them and in turn, my theory that you were bussing Dragomir.

Oh, and this part of the Dragomir scumread:

Also Dunya is never wrong, and if she is it's her fault and not mine.

Looks a lot like buddying when you consider what I've pointed out above, that the 7 green reads look super sketchy and like an attempt at currying favor with the town when under pressure from nutella's read list.

tl;dr: Your case against Dragomir was inconsistent, logically unsound and forced, like you were trying to force it to happen or make something up. The rest of your readslist smacks of trying to buddy up to other players.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:36 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:39 am Do I have all townreads on me? What the actual fuck

@MacDougall come rectify this and OMGUS me please I need a sense of normality

Oh u are maphier. Look at your maph.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:38 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:36 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:39 am Do I have all townreads on me? What the actual fuck

@MacDougall come rectify this and OMGUS me please I need a sense of normality
Oh u are maphier. Look at your maph.

Thank you bb I feel so much better now

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am**

Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:42 am**

ok so the dumb townread on alison is that she goes from

No read on nanook -> "tutuu idk why r u townreading nanook for that" -> "i, alison townread nanook" with no explanation

So in my mind if she was scum she would be more cosncious of how she comes off itt and would not make such inconsistnecies

So i thimk shes town cuz she didnt keep up us up to date cuz if shes town she was like doing her thing u know

also im not reading that wall sry alison life is too short

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:45 am**

I dunno why Dragomir does what Dragomir does but suffice to say I scum read him in every game he plays regardless of alignment so it's not a surprise to me that I've randed into this situation.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:46 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:34 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:29 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm Am currently at the top of page 4. My townpile is tutuu and nanook and my scumpile is nobody.
Can you talk about your Nanook read?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:16 pmdyslexicon is scum with drago for this post
That's creative.
Also, I'm town, and you've played with me before. =)
Nanook read - this is 50% tonal (good opener, engaged with people about mechanics in a way that felt open & honest, just generally putting themselves in the thread in a way that doesn't feel forced or agenda-pushy) and 50% content (engaged with multiple different people, strongly denied a derpclear). #82 was a post I liked. You don't often see scum telling other people to "project town" because they want other players to put in less effort and get read as a sketchball, not try hard, effortpost and look supertown.

Dyslexicon read - for context, it's page 5, you put down 7 relatively strong townreads and then 1 (tonally confident) scumread on Dragomir.

1) It's rare to have 7 townreads so early in the game. People's posts near the beginning of the game trend a lot more towards null stuff - "hi everyone"s, jokes and fluff, throwing around weak "maybe X is town/scum" based on meta or tone. Is it possible to look at 7 separate people and go "based on their early game posts, I think all of these people are likely to be town"? Yes, but it's pretty damn rare and smacks of buddying. The timing is also pretty sketchy because it came down right after the laser gun holder put you at their bottom of her list, giving you an incentive to try to earn some immediate towncred. You literally townread everyone who had more than like 0 or 1-2 posts, with the sole exception of...

2) Dragomir. Let's take a look at the four points of interaction you had with Dragomir before the readslist came out.

a) [in response to Dragomir's post #40] "scummy"

For context, post 40 was Dragomir's first post in the game, saying hello and that he'll be back in the morning. That isn't scum. It isn't town either. It's as close to null as I can imagine a post being. It doesn't even have much of a tone to read into. Why single that out for being scummy without any explanation?

b) [in response to Dragomir's post #78] "Why? I feel like wrapping my head around the strategy is what interests me the most right now, since there's several pretty simple ways to lose this game if we go about it the wrong way. Is it not interesting to you?"

#78 is a post that could actually be considered to be scummy, since Dragomir is intentionally refusing to try to engage with the setup meechanics and try to contribute to building a better protection scheme for town. I wouldn't read it as scummy personally since I know a few players who switch their brain off when detailed setup/mechanic discussion comes into play, but it's a plausible reason to try to read Dragomir as scummy. That's not what you do though. You respond with a probing question that's sort of neutral-ish. It's not particularly accusatory, it's not particularly supportive, it just wants to find out more about Dragomir's thoughts.

c) [in response to Dragomir's post #170] "Purple parts are scummy to me. It reads like you don't think the reasoning is valid like you're suspected for wrong reasons rather than the suspicion being wrong. Also, using Dunya's name just feels slimy. Like you're touching her shoulder and leaning forward but like in a scummy way. =p"

Of your three interactions with Dragomir, this is the one I find most genuine. It's a fair point, and it's believable that a towni would find this scummy and push Dragomir into the scumpool based off it.

d) [in response to dunya's post #162] "Also, I think if Drag is scum it's likelier that he TMIed Carrot as town when he challenged your scum read on her."

Dragomir's challenge of dunya's scum read is located in post #110. dunya voices suspicion of Carot for not gamesolving in her first post, and Dragomir says "Do you expect players to come right off the bat with game solving in their entry post?". This isn't TMI (although funnily enough, I'm going to argue that you and Dragomir are scum together because you TMI'd him). TMI is a type of scumslip whereby you have no reason to believe that someone is scum/town but somehow "know" that they're of that alignment, because you're scum and know everyone's alignments. That isn't what Dragomir is doing though. He's not arguing that Carot is one alignment or another - he's engaging with dunya's post and pointing out a flaw in the logic. Whether or not Carot is scum has no bearing on whether or not town players are expected to come out of the gate with game solving in their entry post. So this read doesn't make any sense to me.

My conclusion is that there's a suspicious gap in your attack on Dragomir. You take a null post and you leap straight to "this is scummy". You take an attack on dunya's logic and leap straight to "Dragomir has knowledge he shouldn't be having as a town member". What this sounds like to me is that you had a conclusion in mind - "I want to attack Dragomir" - and started combing through posts and making up reasons to scumread him rather than having those reads organically develop. That is scummy behavior, and points to either you trying really hard to get town!Dragomir mislynched or you trying to make up a reason to scumread scum!Dragomir early on so that you can point to it later as evidence that you suspected Dragomir all along to get towncred. I suspect it's the latter, because it's more natural for you to just wait for a townie to say something dumb (like I did) and then leap on them (which you did to me) rather than try to shoehorn some reasoning as to why a townie should die. The Dragomir slot going completely off the rails later on strengthens my scumread on them and in turn, my theory that you were bussing Dragomir.

Oh, and this part of the Dragomir scumread:
Also Dunya is never wrong, and if she is it's her fault and not mine.
Looks a lot like buddying when you consider what I've pointed out above, that the 7 green reads look super sketchy and like an attempt at currying favor with the town when under pressure from nutella's read list.

tl;dr: Your case against Dragomir was inconsistent, logically unsound and forced, like you were trying to force it to happen or make something up. The rest of your readslist smacks of trying to buddy up to other players.

tl;dr

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:47 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:15 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:56 pm MacDougall's posting has rapidly moved past the point of "this is my playstyle" and onto "I am caught scum intentionally causing as much chaos and disruption as humanly possible with lolcatty and nonsensical posts"
Interestingly, I think if Mac is scum, you're likely to be scum too. Both because you just assume Mac is caught, also because you made it a point to link me to Mac. This is unnecessary harsh towards Mac, which is more likely s/s interaction. Or else you're just kind of harsh, cause afaic, Mac is making content, whether or not you agree with it.

"MacDougall's posting reeks of caught scum" =/= "I assume/know MacDougall is caught scum", in the same way that "X's posts are scummy" =/= "I assume/know X is scum". Do not misrepresent my posts.

I'm harsh towards Mac because I had that huge ass post earlier about how you made it seem like you two were wolves together, and then Mac responds by shitting up the thread with a flurry of nonsensical, vague, unexplained, gish-gallopy posts that seem designed to make the thread as unreadable as humanly possible. The posts don't make sense, which is why I said they're lolcatting. Accusing people at random of being scum, mindmelding with people who have the exact opposite of the reads he has, tossing out random ideas backed by 0 logic is behavior that should rightfully be treated harshly. nutella was pretty harsh towards Mac too iirc - do you think she's scum too?

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:48 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine

There was a second part of my case regarding why Dyslexicon's case against Dragomir feels forced and inconsistent. Even if you don't agree with the first bit, what about the second?

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:49 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:42 am ok so the dumb townread on alison is that she goes from

No read on nanook -> "tutuu idk why r u townreading nanook for that" -> "i, alison townread nanook" with no explanation

So in my mind if she was scum she would be more cosncious of how she comes off itt and would not make such inconsistnecies

So i thimk shes town cuz she didnt keep up us up to date cuz if shes town she was like doing her thing u know

also im not reading that wall sry alison life is too short

I put a tl;dr at the end specifically for people who don't have time or inclination to read walls

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:50 am**

Town:
Nutella
Tutuu
Dunya

Nanook
Alison
Epi (didnt pay much attention but like they went hard on alison or smth right?)

Dyslexicon (i just rly like their tone idk)

Rest

I dont believe in making scumreads it never works out so only townreads

Drago slot removed from tr cuz i cant understand mcdougall, LC removed cuz i dont see them towntelling and proto removed cuz they keep talking about mechanics and like im paranoid of its a maf strat to avoid making a lot of reads itt (apologies if u made non-mechanic posts and i missed them)

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:48 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine
There was a second part of my case regarding why Dyslexicon's case against Dragomir feels forced and inconsistent. Even if you don't agree with the first bit, what about the second?

I don’t think it’s meaningful but I also didn’t see the need to say that. Sorry.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am**

Wow.

[mention]Alison[/mention]

1. No, not at all. That is completely normal for me and a literal town tell. I want everyone to be town, first of all, and I go straight ahead and try to find them immediately. I often even do it quite well. I get that some thinks it's weird, but it's normal for me. Take my word for it or go meta dive. Also, regarding the timing. I engaged with the game once I had time. I had not seen Nut's list when I was in the process of catching up. I'm actively involved in any game I'm a part of when I have time. You write this as if I would sit back and do nothing unless Nut had suspected me at that point which is never the case regardless of my alignment tbh tbh

2a) Those where the feelings I got from those posts. Not super serious, but I like to throw spaghetti on the wall in any case.

b) Yes?

c) Mm.

d) I just disagree. I read it as possible TMI, like he's showing there is reason to question Dunya's logic BECAUSE Carot is town. If this even is the case. I also have no idea how this constitute a point against me somehow. Like, I'm reading the game and trying to solve. The horror.

Your conclusion is wrong. I just have/had suspicion on Drag. There were several small things that made me react negatively. And yeah, I didn't have this feeling with any other player in the game. I don't always have that feeling early in games. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I had that feeling with Radish in the last game I played here (which some may recall), and I was right. Actually, the two possibilities you sketch up for me are sound, but it should lead to the opposite conclusion. I'm neither a player who busses my teammate from D0. Nor am I a player who try very hard to get people mislynched as scum. I'm just town and I think Drag was scummy. Having a lot of town reads is a town tell for me. I'll reevaluate of course, but if I'm fine with people I'm fine with people. I have an easier time getting town reads than scum reads in general.

My buddying Dunya is like 80 % a joke.

All your conclusions are wrong. Also, I'm not a robot lol.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:48 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine
There was a second part of my case regarding why Dyslexicon's case against Dragomir feels forced and inconsistent. Even if you don't agree with the first bit, what about the second?
I don’t think it’s meaningful but I also didn’t see the need to say that. Sorry.

Why don't you think it's meaningful?

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:58 am**

for the record I really hate the little "this is a town tell for me" "I would never bus d0" stuff because it feels manipulative and I know a lot of people won't bother doing the work of checking up on your meta background to see if it's true. I'm going to actually do the work and check up on your meta and see if those claims are legitimate. Do you have any games you want to show me, or do you just want to direct me to your MafiaUniverse profile and let me read all your games there?

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:59 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:48 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine
There was a second part of my case regarding why Dyslexicon's case against Dragomir feels forced and inconsistent. Even if you don't agree with the first bit, what about the second?
I don’t think it’s meaningful but I also didn’t see the need to say that. Sorry.
Why don't you think it's meaningful?

If I wanted to do a point by point breakdown I would’ve lol

Specifically I don’t think it’s particularly AI, it just feels like culture clash more than anything. Broadly, I’m given to understand that dizzy typically self resolves so I’m content letting that play out.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:59 am**

basically all your defenses of your behavior are "it's not in my meta to do that as scum" so you can consider #574 a general response to your defense post

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:05 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:42 am ok so the dumb townread on alison is that she goes from

No read on nanook -> "tutuu idk why r u townreading nanook for that" -> "i, alison townread nanook" with no explanation

So in my mind if she was scum she would be more cosncious of how she comes off itt and would not make such inconsistnecies

So i thimk shes town cuz she didnt keep up us up to date cuz if shes town she was like doing her thing u know

also im not reading that wall sry alison life is too short

Actually, mebbe.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:47 am"MacDougall's posting reeks of caught scum" =/= "I assume/know MacDougall is caught scum", in the same way that "X's posts are scummy" =/= "I assume/know X is scum". Do not misrepresent my posts.

Don't tell me to not misrepresent you if you're going to spend walls doing that to me thank you very much. Also, misrepresenting is one of my least favorite word in mafia. I'm telling you my perspective on things. It looked to me that it's possible that you're trying to link me and Mac because you know Mac is scum. And I've seen scum be more harsh towards each other compared to other interactions in games.

I'm harsh towards Mac because I had that huge ass post earlier about how you made it seem like you two were wolves together, and then Mac responds by shitting up the thread with a flurry of nonsensical, vague, unexplained, gish-gallopy posts that seem designed to make the thread as unreadable as humanly possible. The posts don't make sense, which is why I said they're lolcatting. Accusing people at random of being scum, mindmelding with people who have the exact opposite of the reads he has, tossing out random ideas backed by 0 logic is behavior that should rightfully be treated harshly. nutella was pretty harsh towards Mac too iirc - do you think she's scum too?

I had a bad feeling of Drag D0 turning into an assumption that we are both scum makes no sense what so ever to me. But you know what, I'm not you. So question is, does it makes sense that YOU would think that. I don't know, maybe. I don't know you that well. Mac is clearly not lolcatting. Throwing out ideas is like 90 % of my play, get into it. Mafia isn't a game of logic, primarily, fite me. Maybe people just play differently that you do. You do you, but let others do them. And lol about the Nut bit, what are you trying to accomplish.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:07 am**

if you have game links, post them so I can see them, else I'll just trawl through your MU profile

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am**

This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh

There's a reason I didn't engage much with the latest post. Either the meta read turns up clean, in which case I was wrong, or the meta read turns up dirty, in which case I'll have irrefutable evidence that Dyslexicon is scum. I don't think it's productive to get drawn into an argument about misrepresentation or whatever.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:58 am for the record I really hate the little "this is a town tell for me" "I would never bus d0" stuff because it feels manipulative and I know a lot of people won't bother doing the work of checking up on your meta background to see if it's true. I'm going to actually do the work and check up on your meta and see if those claims are legitimate. Do you have any games you want to show me, or do you just want to direct me to your MafiaUniverse profile and let me read all your games there?

Well, we literally just played a game together on MU (well, it's still ongoing). I've played mostly games on Personality Cafe. I don't have many recent games on MU, and I also don't know anyone when I play there mostly. I've played some games here which you can probably check out if you really want to. I don't care about your read on me. I've said my piece. I don't know why you just jump to the conclusion that, yes I must be scum and with Drag specifically, instead of the very obvious and real conclusion that I'm just town with a read lol.

People don't just lie about their meta. Like, I haven't ever seen it happen. Believe me or not, but having several town reads and leans early is something that just happens to me, especially if I know people. Several people have been towny to me. Sue me.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:15 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh
There's a reason I didn't engage much with the latest post. Either the meta read turns up clean, in which case I was wrong, or the meta read turns up dirty, in which case I'll have irrefutable evidence that Dyslexicon is scum. I don't think it's productive to get drawn into an argument about misrepresentation or whatever.

Lol, you are really too much xD You'll never have irrefutable evidence that I'm scum cause I'm fucking town lol. We are clearly very different is my conclusion from this.

I'll get some links from here because I'm nice. But I really don't have the time fml

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:15 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh

Hold me

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:16 am**

Can you all read me like PerC people do in the future? Please and thanks =p

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:16 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:58 am for the record I really hate the little "this is a town tell for me" "I would never bus d0" stuff because it feels manipulative and I know a lot of people won't bother doing the work of checking up on your meta background to see if it's true. I'm going to actually do the work and check up on your meta and see if those claims are legitimate. Do you have any games you want to show me, or do you just want to direct me to your MafiaUniverse profile and let me read all your games there?
Well, we literally just played a game together on MU (well, it's still ongoing). I've played mostly games on Personality Cafe. I don't have many recent games on MU, and I also don't know anyone when I play there mostly. I've played some games here which you can probably check out if you really want to. I don't care about your read on me. I've said my piece. I don't know why you just jump to the conclusion that, yes I must be scum and with Drag specifically, instead of the very obvious and real conclusion that I'm just town with a read lol.

People don't just lie about their meta. Like, I haven't ever seen it happen. Believe me or not, but having several town reads and leans early is something that just happens to me, especially if I know people. Several people have been towny to me. Sue me.

I do it pretty regularly tbh, as both alignments

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:17 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:15 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh
Hold me

I got you bb

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:20 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:15 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh
There's a reason I didn't engage much with the latest post. Either the meta read turns up clean, in which case I was wrong, or the meta read turns up dirty, in which case I'll have irrefutable evidence that Dyslexicon is scum. I don't think it's productive to get drawn into an argument about misrepresentation or whatever.
Lol, you are really too much xD You'll never have irrefutable evidence that I'm scum cause I'm fucking town lol. We are clearly very different is my conclusion from this.

I'll get some links from here because I'm nice. But I really don't have the time fml

From a meme about the different types of mafia players.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:25 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:20 amFrom a meme about the different types of mafia players.

Lol. =p
Lying about meta in a game where most people know you is silly. Obviously I don't have the exact same approach to any game, as every game is different.

Anyway, here's a pretty recent game where I'm town D1 and later replace in as scum, so that may be interesting: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1791

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:29 am**

im just looking forward to this incoming proto bomb

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:32 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:29 am im just looking forward to this incoming proto bomb

There is much to look forward to.

Mac, why don't you vote Rej with me? I have irrefutable evidence that he is scum.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:33 am**

Meta trawl, most recent to least recent. I'm not counting the game we played together, because that one hasn't ended yet so it would be illegal to talk about it.
S7 G5 - May 2020 (Town)
Girl Genius - July 2019 (Town, then Mafia)
ITA Death Mash - July 2019 (Town)
Anonymous Petrology - July 2019 (Mafia)
Mafia Universe Anniversary 2019 - June 2019 (Mafia)
Fruits and Vegetables - June 2017 (Town)
S3 G2 - May 2016 (Town)
The Disney Game - August 2015 (Town)

Needless to say, it would be impractical at best to read through all of these games, so I'm just going to ISO Dyslexicon with an eye on two things: 1) do they have a tendency to throw around a lot of townreads very early on in the game as town like they claim they do and 2) do they have a tendency to avoid bussing D1/D2 as scum like they claim they do.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:33 am**

5 year old meta GOAT

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:37 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:32 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:29 am im just looking forward to this incoming proto bomb
There is much to look forward to.

Mac, why don't you vote Rej with me? I have irrefutable evidence that he is scum.

Because voting for him serves no purpose whatsoever?

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:37 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:33 am Meta trawl, most recent to least recent. I'm not counting the game we played together, because that one hasn't ended yet so it would be illegal to talk about it.
S7 G5 - May 2020 (Town)
Girl Genius - July 2019 (Town, then Mafia)
ITA Death Mash - July 2019 (Town)
Anonymous Petrology - July 2019 (Mafia)
Mafia Universe Anniversary 2019 - June 2019 (Mafia)
Fruits and Vegetables - June 2017 (Town)
S3 G2 - May 2016 (Town)
The Disney Game - August 2015 (Town)

Needless to say, it would be impractical at best to read through all of these games, so I'm just going to ISO Dyslexicon with an eye on two things: 1) do they have a tendency to throw around a lot of townreads very early on in the game as town like they claim they do and 2) do they have a tendency to avoid bussing D1/D2 as scum like they claim they do.

Jesus christ who are you lol

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:42 am**

re: "5 year old meta GOAT" - I agree the later games are less worthwhile but the 2020/2019 games are well worth analyzing, and there might be some stuff they said back in 2015 that may indicate a general philosophy on mafia which may be game-relevant or which may still apply. At any rate I'd weigh the stuff in 2015 much less strongly but there's no harm in taking a look.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:43 am**

I had jules dead on a "cares too much about meta" read recently but she was town so that went poorly

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:44 am**

If I’m being serious for a minute, old meta is usually mostly fine cause reliable meta tells rarely dramatically change over time (with the exception of something like someone going from being 15 to being 20). If they do change, they aren’t usually that reliable to begin with

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:45 am**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:33 am 5 year old meta GOAT

I bet I'm scum if I'm not doing the exact same thing on MU 5 years ago as I'm doing this game. DDL probably just gave me the wrong role.

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:46 am**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:43 am I had jules dead on a "cares too much about meta" read recently but she was town so that went poorly

Shhhhhh we’re not talking about that

If we were going to talk about that totally and completely imagined game tho I’d probably comment that the last time I did a brief meta dive to look at someone’s opening it went poorly and now I hate them

Posted: **Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:46 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:45 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:33 am 5 year old meta GOAT
I bet I'm scum if I'm not doing the exact same thing on MU 5 years ago as I'm doing this game. DDL probably just gave me the wrong role.

Don’t you hate it when the host gives you a town role but you know in your heart you’re supposed to be mafia that game

The Syndicate

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