The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:22 pm Given that Dragomir is still the only mafia member successfully done away with as far as I can tell, perhaps this work (that both LLD and Evenstar went out of their way to shit on, by the way) may prove useful.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:25 pm Reading these long cases later.

I think jack may be scum. Mostly just a hunch, I think it fits though ofc I haven't seen his activity in the other levels.


At the moment I'd probably be happy with lynching any of him, Eva, or 112.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:26 pm I see Epi is still reposting the same walls from D2 as if they mean he has done real work this phase

good look

very convincing

Epi/Radish, as I have ALREADY argued AT LENGTH

-

i need to cool off

driving home, tag me with questions. I'll get to it.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:24 pm I am at work, and unable to post much. I have meeting coming up soon (that includes a 50-slide Power Point about how to have a meeting ), but...

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:34 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 am but i mean yeah your logics a bit weird

wouldnt keeping him alive to keep sussing the towncore sow suspicion on its own?

why would scum assume people would even remember nooks reads

Yes, but Nook was relatively low impact in the thread so he probably wouldn't make much progress and might even be convinced to change his mind. Better to go for the guarantee rather than a gamble.

Because it's good town play to look back at those who died to try and divine the intent as to why they died. Since there is always a discernible reason behind a scum nightkill. The trick is actually figuring it out. Plus remembering the reads of one of 14 other players is far easier than that of 29 other players. Especially since scum could potentially just point it out themselves in thread as a reason why Nook could have been a silencing kill. So there's a fair chance that town would easily remember the reads or scum would just state it themselves.

I'm basically assuming that Epi is scum based off this as I read into the kill more and more. If I'm right this is a kill that came at it from a methodical view, which fits my mental image of Epi's style and even is something he has stated in previous days.

...this is rubbish. Absolute rubbish.

First, the qualifiers indicate someone who knows what he is saying is rubbish. "Basically assuming" is equivocal language. "As I read into the kill more and more" is a vague way to make it sound as though this perspective bears credibility. It doesn't. This is an attempt to appear analytical. The little lecture that precedes the accusation rings hollow.

Second, Pawn, who knows nothing about me and has no prior experience with me, suggests that he can correctly peg me specifically as killing Nanook. Nonsense. In fact, if you remember, Nanook was among my top suspects coming into Day 2. From my perspective, the incessant posts begging for credit for lynching Dragomir looked too on the nose. If I were mafia, I would have been confident I could have gathered support for a Nanook lynch. No- Nanook would not have been in my top ten choices for a kill.

Third, the accusation is empty. Any victim could be a "methodical" choice for the Night kill. What makes the Nanook kill specifically a methodical choice (as opposed to, say, an Evenstar kill or a Pawn kill)? The accusation is based on multiple assumptions that don't even support it.

Fourth, the basis for this accusation against me is at present non-falsifiable. "If I'm right this is a kill that came at it from a methodical view" is nothing that can be proved or disproved until endgame.

This is rubbish.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:00 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:56 pm Oh, one more thing:

Eva slipped close to 'TMI' about levels and things. She assumed there was another thread immediately and even started referring to reaching limbo in like D2. I realise there's a theme and all, but she sure nailed it early on whilst we were all figuring out what was going on.


/tunnel

Quin said that iaafr also seemed to have tmi about the threads.

TL also seemed to on d2.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:43 pm This was my case from Limbo:

Spoiler: show

The case against Evenstar

Her tone felt wrong:
--The vast majority of her posts from D2 were very small contributions, very much lacking in scumhunting, and mainly a stream-of-consciousness tone full of ‘…’s and ‘?’s and ‘what if’s. (And adverbs.) For example, her biggest post of D2 was a stream-of-consciousness ‘what if’ rant about the mechanics of the strange new game state and its restrictions. That itself is fine, if it goes anywhere, but her tone was mongering uncertainty, rather than being focused on actually figuring it out. She throws out thoughts about 8 scum in the thread, or no scum, etc – unlikely scenarios that don’t add to mechanics-solving.

--Along the same vein, at other points of the round she speculated on a triple scumwagon on D1 (Epi/112/Drago), entertained notions about what the phrase ‘up a level’ means, suggested forming in-game hydras…things that don’t contribute to discussion. They’re distractions.

--For someone who is known for an in-your-face style and who self-describes her style as pressuring until scum are revealed, she did remarkably little of that. Who did she pressure lately? Pawn? That lasted less than a page and she backed down quickly. In D1 she was a bulldog, but by D2 she was a puppy.


As for her actual content:
--She started D2 going after Pawn although quickly backed off that. She said Pawn ‘gave me bad info at dayend’ about Mac ‘crusading’ the Epi wagon. Pawn basically reaffirmed he believed what he said and Eva…just backed off. And she TRed Pawn the rest of the round. Then, in D3, Jack and I began discussing Pawn very lightly as a read (Jack refused to really discuss anything) and Eva comes in and rips him apart. Pawn responds and Eva…backs off. Like, very easily. Just a ‘okay, that puts my mind at ease, thanks’ sort of reaction (that’s not an actual quote – I didn’t note it down). The fangs retracted very quickly.

--Most of her posts that actually focused on pressuring potential scum in D2 were focused on Jack. And yet Jack only once appeared in her ‘bottom 3’ lists that day, and there was no real push to lynch him at any point. She also never really outright cased him, just said he ‘deserves pressure’ and picks up on a few minor inconsistencies.

--Her reads remained fairly static in D2, with only a couple exceptions. Aside from briefly SRing Pawn, and switching her read on 112 halfway through (which in turn reversed her read of Epi), the most she changed her reads was at the end when she started proposing low posters like Dom and Colin as lynch targets, after ignoring them as she had done up to that point. She kept Nova in her bottom 3, SRed me consistently (but without any real explanation beyond OMGUS), shaded Jack (but rarely openly stateed an SR of him), and avoided serious comment on most others. It really looked like she was playing to slip by unnoticed.

--As we approached the end of D2, Sprit became a last minute choice amongst several of us. Eva began to softly defend Sprit. She even said she hopes to ‘nail’ me if Sprit flipped green. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone say that sort of thing and flip green themselves. Also, Sprit was in the same ‘content range’ category as Nova, Dom, and Colin, who she continued to SR.

--She spent a fair chunk of time in the middle of D2 complaining about the lack of voting ability. She said it hinders her style of game (this is fair) and tells me at one point she intends to change that. She then…doesn’t. Like, even into D3, I don’t remember anything notable she did except her Pawn push.

--D3 she’s very blendy, IMO. I actually don’t remember much of what she did. Probably should’ve written some of it down.


Not to mention:
--Her vote in D1 tied Drago with 112 at 8-8 with 3 mins left. We were that close to not lynching a wolf due to her vote. (And, of course, others.)

--The Nook and Pawn (that’s still my assumption) kill choices fit her. They’re players she’s familiar with and will worry could read her correctly.

--Her entrance to this round was…interesting. She votes Sprityo immediately but gives some blah blah about me being the ‘correct lynch’ but she’s assuming she’s wrong. It's illogical. It also feels way too much like she knew *I’m* the one she needs to convince, since I’ve SRed both her and Sprit fairly heavily. She didn't start pressuring me this round until I made it clear I was leaning towards her.

--Her reasoning for me being potential scum has been full of misrememberings (I’ll avoid saying ‘lies’ since she may genuinely misremember.)

Added to that from our Limbo phase, she:
--constantly created narratives about what my intentions were ('you did x to justify y, and then you hastily backtracked...')
--insisted I was lying about trivial matters like whether Jack was SRing me (reminded me of 'BULLSHIT YOU'RE THE VOYEUR' and I even posted that at one point)
--seriously gave me the 'yes, and that's very convenient...' retaliation upon me not being around for certain events because of my timezone
--spent most of the time speculating on every possible combo of scum under the sun, literally hundreds of words that went nowhere and acheived nothing but make her look like she was thinking hard
--followed me immediately when I exaggerated my read on sprit (I wanted to see her reaction when I pretended to back off her and consider sprit; she took the bait and went for 'hmm, yes, and did you also notice that...' type posts)
--didn't stick to her sprit read and try to convince me, but instead switched to me right at :00 once sprit voted me


I'm sure there's more, but yeah.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 pm You know who is scum. 112. 112 is scum.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:29 pm

Evenstar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:26 pm I see Epi is still reposting the same walls from D2 as if they mean he has done real work this phase

good look

very convincing

Epi/Radish, as I have ALREADY argued AT LENGTH

-

i need to cool off

driving home, tag me with questions. I'll get to it.

This is what I mean.

I just got here. What "real work" am I supposed to do?

I asked everyone in the other threads to post my work if anybody made it up here. As far as I can tell, nobody ever did since this is new stuff according to nutella.

And yet Evenstar wants to take a dump on it.

Note that she never engaged the content of the work. Instead, she chose to disparage the existence of them, as though I (being as busy as I am) went through the trouble of it all just to "look good."

Fuck that.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:09 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:01 pm

Elephant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:58 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:07 pm I've had her since D2 and no one is listening to me.

Sprityo made a bad choice. I think the mafia may have gained some sort of advantage.

How did you learn about this mafia advantage? Does anyone else know about this?

The wording of the levels was like 'you're getting closer...'

Also, what was the point of our little F3 if we all survived? Someone will have gained something, I'm pretty certain.

You are telling us the mafia reached the Limbo level and won it? Why is the game not over?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 pm You know who is scum. 112. 112 is scum.

I haven’t seen them do anything suspicious in several days.

Lady LambdaDelta wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:47 pm How about lynch Nutella and if she flips town lynch me

How about that

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:30 pm Evenstar, Lexi, 112, Jack and Elephant gg.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:31 pm Pawn is mafia as far as I'm concerned too.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:57 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:53 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:42 pm Hmmm I think we should just lynch Evenstar and if she flips town lynch Sprityo? Seems like there is always a wolf between them no?

Um why not Radishes? I thought Eva got cleared and Sprityo seems real town to me.

Radishes looks like town to me.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 pm You know who is scum. 112. 112 is scum.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:40 pm However Epi, Nanook said you were a common suspect on d2. Why was that?

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm Catching up right now. Going through from the beginning of day 2 and today simultaneously. All I will say is that I want the head of the people behind the Spiny lynch.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:40 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 pm You know who is scum. 112. 112 is scum.

I haven’t seen them do anything suspicious in several days.

You're a funny guy aren't you Jack.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm Pawn probably killed nanook lol.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:20 pm Nah fuck this. Evenstar wants us to lynch Radishes entirely to find out whether "the scum won a prize". That's bullshit lol. So he flips town and we discover they won a prize... what good is that to us? I don't believe Evenstar at all.

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:04 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm Pawn probably killed nanook lol.

Lol, if I'm scum I killed someone with more actual content. I maintain Nook's kill was a framer one.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:25 pm Reading these long cases later.

I think jack may be scum. Mostly just a hunch, I think it fits though ofc I haven't seen his activity in the other levels.


At the moment I'd probably be happy with lynching any of him, Eva, or 112.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:27 pm And just to be clear, I am not interested in a single emotional-based plea anybody here has. I don't care. If you are not bad, put for a cogent reason why you are not. Nobody gets a pass this day.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:30 pm Evenstar, Lexi, 112, Jack and Elephant gg.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:07 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:04 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm Pawn probably killed nanook lol.

Lol, if I'm scum I killed someone with more actual content. I maintain Nook's kill was a framer one.

He actually had decent content d1, and a lot in here on d3, by which point he was widely accepted town so a reasonable kill choice.

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:12 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:07 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:04 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm Pawn probably killed nanook lol.

Lol, if I'm scum I killed someone with more actual content. I maintain Nook's kill was a framer one.

He actually had decent content d1, and a lot in here on d3, by which point he was widely accepted town so a reasonable kill choice.

And I am talking about a N2 night kill that moved him up to the top level again. I still haven't read much of anything of what I missed so I can't speak about that.

Like I should but I have no motivation, especially when I am essentially solo Hydraing since my partner is getting hurt by RL.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:14 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:12 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:07 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:04 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm Pawn probably killed nanook lol.

Lol, if I'm scum I killed someone with more actual content. I maintain Nook's kill was a framer one.

He actually had decent content d1, and a lot in here on d3, by which point he was widely accepted town so a reasonable kill choice.

And I am talking about a N2 night kill that moved him up to the top level again. I still haven't read much of anything of what I missed so I can't speak about that.

Like I should but I have no motivation, especially when I am essentially solo Hydraing since my partner is getting hurt by RL.

Huh?

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:17 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:14 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:12 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:07 pm

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:04 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:01 pm Pawn probably killed nanook lol.

Lol, if I'm scum I killed someone with more actual content. I maintain Nook's kill was a framer one.

He actually had decent content d1, and a lot in here on d3, by which point he was widely accepted town so a reasonable kill choice.

And I am talking about a N2 night kill that moved him up to the top level again. I still haven't read much of anything of what I missed so I can't speak about that.

Like I should but I have no motivation, especially when I am essentially solo Hydraing since my partner is getting hurt by RL.

Huh?

Different game I care more about by this point, where I'm basically handicapped and heavily frustrated by. And just making it difficult to muster up the energy to read 40 pages.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:43 pm This was my case from Limbo:

Spoiler: show

The case against Evenstar

Her tone felt wrong:
--The vast majority of her posts from D2 were very small contributions, very much lacking in scumhunting, and mainly a stream-of-consciousness tone full of ‘…’s and ‘?’s and ‘what if’s. (And adverbs.) For example, her biggest post of D2 was a stream-of-consciousness ‘what if’ rant about the mechanics of the strange new game state and its restrictions. That itself is fine, if it goes anywhere, but her tone was mongering uncertainty, rather than being focused on actually figuring it out. She throws out thoughts about 8 scum in the thread, or no scum, etc – unlikely scenarios that don’t add to mechanics-solving.

--Along the same vein, at other points of the round she speculated on a triple scumwagon on D1 (Epi/112/Drago), entertained notions about what the phrase ‘up a level’ means, suggested forming in-game hydras…things that don’t contribute to discussion. They’re distractions.

--For someone who is known for an in-your-face style and who self-describes her style as pressuring until scum are revealed, she did remarkably little of that. Who did she pressure lately? Pawn? That lasted less than a page and she backed down quickly. In D1 she was a bulldog, but by D2 she was a puppy.


As for her actual content:
--She started D2 going after Pawn although quickly backed off that. She said Pawn ‘gave me bad info at dayend’ about Mac ‘crusading’ the Epi wagon. Pawn basically reaffirmed he believed what he said and Eva…just backed off. And she TRed Pawn the rest of the round. Then, in D3, Jack and I began discussing Pawn very lightly as a read (Jack refused to really discuss anything) and Eva comes in and rips him apart. Pawn responds and Eva…backs off. Like, very easily. Just a ‘okay, that puts my mind at ease, thanks’ sort of reaction (that’s not an actual quote – I didn’t note it down). The fangs retracted very quickly.

--Most of her posts that actually focused on pressuring potential scum in D2 were focused on Jack. And yet Jack only once appeared in her ‘bottom 3’ lists that day, and there was no real push to lynch him at any point. She also never really outright cased him, just said he ‘deserves pressure’ and picks up on a few minor inconsistencies.

--Her reads remained fairly static in D2, with only a couple exceptions. Aside from briefly SRing Pawn, and switching her read on 112 halfway through (which in turn reversed her read of Epi), the most she changed her reads was at the end when she started proposing low posters like Dom and Colin as lynch targets, after ignoring them as she had done up to that point. She kept Nova in her bottom 3, SRed me consistently (but without any real explanation beyond OMGUS), shaded Jack (but rarely openly stateed an SR of him), and avoided serious comment on most others. It really looked like she was playing to slip by unnoticed.

--As we approached the end of D2, Sprit became a last minute choice amongst several of us. Eva began to softly defend Sprit. She even said she hopes to ‘nail’ me if Sprit flipped green. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone say that sort of thing and flip green themselves. Also, Sprit was in the same ‘content range’ category as Nova, Dom, and Colin, who she continued to SR.

--She spent a fair chunk of time in the middle of D2 complaining about the lack of voting ability. She said it hinders her style of game (this is fair) and tells me at one point she intends to change that. She then…doesn’t. Like, even into D3, I don’t remember anything notable she did except her Pawn push.

--D3 she’s very blendy, IMO. I actually don’t remember much of what she did. Probably should’ve written some of it down.


Not to mention:
--Her vote in D1 tied Drago with 112 at 8-8 with 3 mins left. We were that close to not lynching a wolf due to her vote. (And, of course, others.)

--The Nook and Pawn (that’s still my assumption) kill choices fit her. They’re players she’s familiar with and will worry could read her correctly.

--Her entrance to this round was…interesting. She votes Sprityo immediately but gives some blah blah about me being the ‘correct lynch’ but she’s assuming she’s wrong. It's illogical. It also feels way too much like she knew *I’m* the one she needs to convince, since I’ve SRed both her and Sprit fairly heavily. She didn't start pressuring me this round until I made it clear I was leaning towards her.

--Her reasoning for me being potential scum has been full of misrememberings (I’ll avoid saying ‘lies’ since she may genuinely misremember.)

Added to that from our Limbo phase, she:
--constantly created narratives about what my intentions were ('you did x to justify y, and then you hastily backtracked...')
--insisted I was lying about trivial matters like whether Jack was SRing me (reminded me of 'BULLSHIT YOU'RE THE VOYEUR' and I even posted that at one point)
--seriously gave me the 'yes, and that's very convenient...' retaliation upon me not being around for certain events because of my timezone
--spent most of the time speculating on every possible combo of scum under the sun, literally hundreds of words that went nowhere and acheived nothing but make her look like she was thinking hard
--followed me immediately when I exaggerated my read on sprit (I wanted to see her reaction when I pretended to back off her and consider sprit; she took the bait and went for 'hmm, yes, and did you also notice that...' type posts)
--didn't stick to her sprit read and try to convince me, but instead switched to me right at :00 once sprit voted me


I'm sure there's more, but yeah.