MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:43 pm
Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:28 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:25 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:21 pm
My three biggest suspects are voting me.
It's cute. They won't ever lynch me. Why try?
IDK, maybe because we think you're scum?
And what will you do when you discover I am not? Hmm?
Shrug at the mistaken lynch and bask in the much less toxic air seems like a good start.
I am missing something here for sure.
Here is what Pawn had to say about me lately:
Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:52 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:41 pm
pawn lelouch
is epignosis being fair to me right now?
He is heavily overemphasizing the lack of a vote on D1. Yeah, it wasn't ideal that you didn't put one on Drago to clinch it but unvoting 112 is still a push towards that, and notably one you had been hinting at for a damn good while. I even called you out on it when you said "completely unexpected betrayal" with everyone expected it, since you had been doing blatant hinting.
And even with that initial waver, everything else within the game has been pure town you. Since the beginning of D1.
And yeah, Epi hasn't seen a fair bit of your playstyle for some context, but it's not a overall scummy set of posts even without that. So I do think that the overemphasis that he's been placing is a fair bit too much.
And while I'm enjoying the game I do consider it bastard and somewhat disorienting. I agree with you on that and think Epi not considering it as such is a case of just trying to defend his friends over the truth. Since if this isn't considered bastard over here, I do hate to see what would be considered as such.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:59 am
Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:58 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:57 am
Pawn, you seem to have an affinity for iaafr. Can you elaborate?
An affinity in terms of having a read that I believe is correct or personality + style?
You seem to like what he's doing. Any outside commentary from someone I even remotely trust would be coveted.
For the most part since early D1 I've honestly found him to be largely acting in a town manner and I generally like the direction that he has pushed in terms of reads. And yes, he did the unvote rather than vote but that doesn't change that he's been fairly solid everywhere else this game.
Especially when you consider the fact that the fact that he removed the 112 vote still helped with Drago and is something that he had to have known would be scummy looking as either alignment due to timing. And full disclosure that is the type of play I have done before, and while it's risky it is something that can work in terms of trying to guarantee a life extension. So I can see the thought process and the weird half measure doesn't feel like scum in that instance, since he would have committed to a hard stance and not ended it on the no lynch.
And while I think iaafr is overreacting in terms of annoyance from your questions I can see how his frustration comes from the setup and is being exacerbated, where the way he is reacting isn't necessarily productive, but feels like town iaafr from what I've observed in other games and spec.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:33 pm
@Pawn Lelouch I'd like to hear your latest thoughts on Iaafr
Epi's put forwards the argument that rabbit potentially being the doublevoter actually makes them look worse, not better
Should I be scumreading Epi or Rabbit more for this? 'cause right now I'm reading that as reflecting quite badly on Epi
I
do think my Rabbit read should be a little less secure given that he hasn't actually got a good reason to be not voting D1 even if he
is the doublevoter, but IMO Epi's argument here boils down to "If they're mechanically confirmed town that just makes them look
worse", which is absolutely garbage.
Well, iaafr's stated reasoning of survival still holds up and is arguably even more valuable considering the value of one late game. There is still the issue of not voting when he could have clinched it but with his hints of pulling off of 112, Drago was pretty much publicly in the lead so there was still some push for that. So I feel solid on iaafr.
And like, I can see the angle that Epi is pushing for here, it's just one that I disagree with when factoring in the survival stance. So it's a small ding.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:03 pm
iaafr, Pawn Lelouch
help me out here, what am I doing wrong
this PoE sucks but I can't seem to see the game a different way
Honestly I agree with the core of it. Since it seems too damn simple but I can't come up with anything else.
I'm never going after you or iaafr. So 6 slots and I am ultimately 3 tiering this since I don't think anyone else here is on the same level of cleared as you two.
Epi, Jack, Sprityo, Dom, Radishes, Colin.
So while Epi has some emotions in terms of annoyance it's not that much and frankly isn't a town tell. Most people would be annoyed in that scenario so it is hard NAI. Then the rabbit push is very eh. I'm honestly unsure if I want him in bottom or middle still, but I guess I'll drop him in for now.
I can agree that Jack has looked better in regards to trying to remove out the current POE and actually participating. Most of them are kinda fluffy but I like his approach to Radishes and there was decent insight when he commented on Michelle.
Dom just has baseless aggression and that's it.
Radishes is weird for me. He has similar thought processes but timings and amount of work make it possible that he's trying to pocket me. So there's sus there but I'm not hitting him today imo.
Colin has some flailing but again, there's nothing actually clearing here. It's enough that he isn't the option today but that's it.
Maybe it's just me but there wasn't anything supremely clearing about the emotional outburst. I get why you're reading him town off it, it could be enough to bump if there was more but he still doesn't have the best look in thread. At the very least since we need 3 I don't see enough to move him to the middle.
{Jack, Radishes, Colin}
{Epi, Dom, Sprityo}
iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:50 am
@Pawn Lelouch you too, uptrends downtrends?
is it still epi dom sprityo for you?
Pretty much. Jack and Radishes are locked pretty heavily in the center for me. Same with Dom at the bottom. Basically nothing has given me reason to change their overall positions since all three have played into what I've already viewed of them.
Epi has actually trended downward because of post #909, where he says I'm bad for making posts that focus on maintaining the status quo. Which if you consider having 3 of 9 slots locked down, and 2 more (MR + Dom) where I've been basically in the same view of them for multiple phases? Then I'll cop to liking the status quo and thinking it's pro town here.
Since remember, the status quo is not inherently bad, what matters is if the status quo is one that benefits town or not. And I think this is a case of one and let me explain.
So Nook is a weird kill. He's a good player but there are others of his caliber here and he notably was one of the less engaged players. So why was he targeted? He's not the player I would have gone for in a doc dodge. I thought about it and the main thing I can consider as viable is that his main scum reads were Eva and myself. And that wouldn't be enough for me to really make sense of it except Eva and I were part of a burgeoning town core.
So Nook specifically seems like an attempt to sow suspicion and break it apart to keep town disorganized, which only increases my Eva lock town rating. And them wanting to break this up is important since it means scum does not like the status quo at the end of D2 where people were coming together and finding each other.
So I think we had a pretty solid POE outline going on and I just dislike how Epi has looked at the same set of events and gotten the exact opposite view from them.
And Sprit is a case where I like individual posts but when I look at the ISO as a whole it just feels bleh, especially with the amount of posts situated there. Still is primarily a case of I don't feel like dropping Colin to the bottom is right so Sprit is the one who has to fit in.
iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:21 am
i actually never paid attention to nooks reads that much last phase lol
so i cant corroborate if what pawn is saying is accurate
and uh isnt that like level 2 logic
isnt level 1 logic pointing at nook was possibly nk'd cuz he was correctly sussing you?
I guess but I don't see the need for me to do so in that position. You and Eva are in a solid TR of me at the moment so I keep that around, especially when being the main doctor targets. Low posters are kept around for easy control around.
So I'd be looking at a kill screen of Nook, Epi, or MR. Just based on engagement I kill Epi or MR everytime over Nook. Nook scum reading me doesn't worry me. I'd rather kill someone who has a nebulous TR or null of me and some thread control vs a person who is SRing me without thread control.
iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:26 am
but i mean yeah your logics a bit weird
wouldnt keeping him alive to keep sussing the towncore sow suspicion on its own?
why would scum assume people would even remember nooks reads
Yes, but Nook was relatively low impact in the thread so he probably wouldn't make much progress and might even be convinced to change his mind. Better to go for the guarantee rather than a gamble.
Because it's good town play to look back at those who died to try and divine the intent as to why they died. Since there is always a discernible reason behind a scum nightkill. The trick is actually figuring it out. Plus remembering the reads of one of 14 other players is far easier than that of 29 other players. Especially since scum could potentially just point it out themselves in thread as a reason why Nook could have been a silencing kill. So there's a fair chance that town would easily remember the reads or scum would just state it themselves.
I'm basically assuming that Epi is scum based off this as I read into the kill more and more. If I'm right this is a kill that came at it from a methodical view, which fits my mental image of Epi's style and even is something he has stated in previous days.