The Syndicate

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:32 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 pm Mafia:

Owner
Lunalee
JJJ

That's a player antipasto.
Going from that you are suggesting that Luna was trying to hard bus me today? I would say try again dear sir.

Yes. Yes, I believe that's exactly what I'm suggesting.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:36 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:34 pm Owner of a Lonely Heart, why were you saying I changed my vote late in Day 1, as if to rescue you? I was nowhere near this game thread and my vote had been on TH for over 24 hours. Indeed when you said that I was in the midst of a four hour drive.
Your vote was the last one in the list of names in the votes at the current time.

The order in which the names appear doesn’t reflect the order in which the votes were placed. You said I SWITCHED my vote.

Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:41 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?

Quin, I think. I just remember you being the 4th one in the list and tying up the votes at 4.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:43 pm**

Nobody seems to understand player salad.

A list of names is not player salad.

A list of reads is not player salad.

I won’t explain what it really is though so y’all death eaters can still screw it up.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:47 pm**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:41 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?
Quin, I think. I just remember you being the 4th one in the list and tying up the votes at 4.

I was the 2nd vote for TH, and at the time I don’t believe you had more than one vote.

I wasn’t around, and you made it look as though I’d dropped in to try to save you. I believe [mention]juliets[/mention] at least was fooled by that portrayal. And if you’re a mafioso, in this effort you have attempted to glue me to you, as your “partner” (in the eyes of any clueless civilians trying to interpret events) who wanted TH lynched merely to keep you alive. It’s entirely false.

I am not pleased.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:48 pm**

Indeed, when I voted TH the prevailing wagons were a 3-3 tie between Long Con (my previous vote) and myself.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 pm**

I think Colin is scum. Even before the flip, he was setting this up.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:06 pm If TH is good, Owner still deserves scrutiny. If Owner is bad, check TH’s wagon.

He read me town for a little bit, but the instant things started going south for me he quickly did what felt like a 180 to me and pushed for my lynch.

Or basically, this whole if-then situation is particularly bad when both wagons are positioned on good players, which I feel like Colin knows this.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 pm**

JJJ, what is your opinion on Lunalee?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:52 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:47 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:41 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?
Quin, I think. I just remember you being the 4th one in the list and tying up the votes at 4.
I was the 2nd vote for TH, and at the time I don’t believe you had more than one vote.

I wasn’t around, and you made it look as though I’d dropped in to try to save you. I believe @juliets at least was fooled by that portrayal. And if you’re a mafioso, in this effort you have attempted to glue me to you, as your “partner” (in the eyes of any clueless civilians trying to interpret events) who wanted TH lynched merely to keep you alive. It’s entirely false.

I am not pleased.

I thought you did save me. But I guess it would have been someone else. I'm not trying to set up anything false. Also, if I was mafia, I'm generally more clever than that. Why would I need to tie myself to you when you were also up to be lynched at one point during this day?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:53 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 pm JJJ, what is your opinion on Lunalee?

I don’t have one. I recall no posts of hers; I’ve roughly skimmed what I missed.

Let me look.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:55 pm**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:52 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:47 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:41 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?
Quin, I think. I just remember you being the 4th one in the list and tying up the votes at 4.
I was the 2nd vote for TH, and at the time I don’t believe you had more than one vote.

I wasn’t around, and you made it look as though I’d dropped in to try to save you. I believe @juliets at least was fooled by that portrayal. And if you’re a mafioso, in this effort you have attempted to glue me to you, as your “partner” (in the eyes of any clueless civilians trying to interpret events) who wanted TH lynched merely to keep you alive. It’s entirely false.

I am not pleased.
I thought you did save me. But I guess it would have been someone else. I'm not trying to set up anything false. Also, if I was mafia, I'm generally more clever than that. Why would I need to tie myself to you when you were also up to be lynched at one point during this day?

When the day was ending it would appear I was no longer atop the wagon charts. That I had been suspected prior is the very benefit you’re asking for: I am a mislynch, and anything you can do to reinforce erroneous civilian suspicion of me is well worth your while — particularly if you aren’t confident in your own longevity.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm**

JJJ, do wagons usually form quickly on scum in your experience?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:02 pm**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm JJJ, do wagons usually form quickly on scum in your experience?

I don’t think I can speak to trends about wagon acceleration per alignment. Conventional wisdom seems to be that mafia wagons encounter more resistance and thus grow slower, but I don’t know that that’s actually true.

Why? What is the importance of this question?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:06 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:38 pm
Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:59 pm Don't really have time to catch up before the lynch, but I can see from the Who Posted list that Nova still hasn't checked in so I will vote there today.

[VOTE: novaselinenever] aubergine
Major scum afraid of being the decisive vote vibes here.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:06 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:51 pm Good:
Epignosis
timmer
DH
INH
Poutanko
Quin
Karavalenge
Jack

Wary:
Kyle
Glorf
Juliets
Long Con
Lunalee
Speedchuck

Shit List:
JJJ
Bullzeye
Owner
Soneji
Mac
Nutella

N/A:
lapluie
Nova

Oh behave I haven't even been paying attention to the game.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:08 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:43 pm Nobody seems to understand player salad.

A list of names is not player salad.

A list of reads is not player salad.

I won’t explain what it really is though so y’all death eaters can still screw it up.

Is that so Mr. that's so??

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:10 pm**

My rainbow list

Bullzeye

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:11 pm**

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:59 pm Lynching anybody Day 1 always feels bad and everyone seems so happy to be here. Soneji almost never shows up to play so I'ma vote there for now.

*oh the irony*

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:13 pm**

I voted for Turnip Head for no logical reason in case anyone is wondering.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:15 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:11 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:44 pm gut read: Epi and Owner are scum mates
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:31 pm I suspect these people: JJJ, TH, DH, and timmer in no particular order.
Enlighten me about the JJJ read.
Engages with Epi in his player salad post.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:32 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:31 pm This sounds like a bullshit act to me.
Which part? And who?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:39 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:34 pm
I think you're trying to set DH up.
A lot of his posts read scummy to me. Maybe, he'll improve tomorrow, but so far, I don't see it.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:35 pm
That was a joke.

Or was it.
Hmm. You really aren't helping your case. But then again, I can be pretty annoying too.
Epi tries to distance himself from Owner

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:23 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:11 pm
I respect you, but that doesn't mean I'll stop being critical of you.
Seems like you're constantly and exclusively critical of me, but hell I've got pretty thick skin I'll be fine. Anyway good luck with that I guess.
JJJ seems alright. I want to look at Quin. Epi is null. Speedy, I'm slightly worried about.

I think yourself, JJJ, nova, and poutanko are the players I feel like I might have some meta on.
Owner produces their own player salad post and lists Epi as "null"
If Owner had three or four or five or six votes (I think I heard all of these numbers) around the time this post was made, ask yourself what its purpose was.

The language of this post doesn't suggest "gut" at all, but rather is assertive and sure of itself in a way that doesn't ring true with respect to mere intuition.

"Engages with Epi in his player salad post."

I suppose in this day and age if you name more than two people as suspects, you are guilty of making a "salad" or some nonsense such as that. I named my four top suspects at the time. I ask you, is there a way I can do that without someone being able to characterize it as a "salad?"

"Epi tries to distance himself from Owner"

The biggest issue I have with this particular comment is its circularity: It assumes the conclusion it aims to support is true, which is the only way the premise can be true. This suggests to me that Lunalee is less interested in figuring out if I'm bad or not and more interested in making it look like I am bad should Owner be lynched and be revealed as bad.

" Owner produces their own player salad post and lists Epi as "null""

And? What about it?

I submit that when it appeared likely that Owner was on the way out the door, Lunalee used one of my own favorite mafia tricks in the book: Getting a preemptive start on the next Day.

Sorry to quote this entire thing, performing maintenance is difficult on a phone.

At a glance I did not take issue with Lunalee. Indeed I thought she exhibited some fearlessness in that she moved against both you (Epi) and I on Day 1, which doesn’t strike me as a typical mafioso approach. We’re both known to make a stink.

I think you’re caught up in trivial details about how you’ve been addressed — I don’t think Luna engaged in circular reasoning. She stated her conclusion to start the post and then illustrated the story that led her there. It would be redundant to inject “If I am right about this theory, then Epi distanced from Owner...”, because no shit. I’m not moved by your gripe, particularly given that it presumes two mafia members at once.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention], when did you place your vote for Owner? It isn’t clear in your posts. Where did the wagons stand then and how much time remained in the day phase?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:16 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:06 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:38 pm
Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:59 pm Don't really have time to catch up before the lynch, but I can see from the Who Posted list that Nova still hasn't checked in so I will vote there today.

[VOTE: novaselinenever] aubergine
Major scum afraid of being the decisive vote vibes here.

yeah ew

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:23 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:02 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm JJJ, do wagons usually form quickly on scum in your experience?
I don’t think I can speak to trends about wagon acceleration per alignment. Conventional wisdom seems to be that mafia wagons encounter more resistance and thus grow slower, but I don’t know that that’s actually true.

Why? What is the importance of this question?

I accumulated 3 votes pretty quickly, but it sounds like this sort of stat doesn't mean much to you. Colin still wants me to be looked at even though I didn't self-pres when I could have.

I didn't have a strong reason to vote for TH so didn't vote there. I guess this is where I'm at right now.

Town
Long Con
Juliets
Glorfindel
nutella

Slight Town
DH
Quin
Soneji
speedy
timmer
Epi

Null
JJJ
Kyle
insertnamehere
Mac
Jack
Bullzeye

Scum team so far
ColinisCool
karavalenge
Lunalee
Poutanko

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:25 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:15 pm I’m not moved by your gripe, particularly given that it presumes two mafia members at once.

Cause all y'all is teammates.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:26 pm**

*tries to relax*

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:28 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:25 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:15 pm I’m not moved by your gripe, particularly given that it presumes two mafia members at once.
Cause all y'all is teammates.

Believe what you will. It would have been very easy to respond to your query in such a way that your belief in our connectivity is contested.

But I don’t give a shit about that. I think your case sucks and that’s what I’m telling you.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:30 pm**

Owner can you please expand briefly on those four scum reads, or direct me to already existing explanations

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:36 pm**

Who wants to have some fun witcha boy mac?

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:40 pm**

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:33 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:22 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:48 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:10 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:08 pm So who’s going to ask Glorfindel if he’s bad?
Nobody do that shit. Let the man play the way he wants to play.

This will not appear in this game again.
Nobody is telling Glorfindel how to play.

ColinisAddressing others on how they will address Glorfindel, which is perfectly valid.
Does Epi usually give a summary of what everyone is doing? Or should I suspect that he's just trying to look like he's doing stuff?
My interpretation of what Epi is doing is standing up for what Colin said, pointing out that Colin is not doing what JJJ is accusing him (rather harshly) of.

To be clear, I wasn’t accusing Colin of anything here. I was trying to step in before anyone capitalized on Colin’s question and absolutely ruined the game for Glorfindel. Regardless of Matty’s alignment, that is just disrespectful and I am glad we seem to be avoiding it now. I was guilty of exploiting it once myself and have regretted it ever since.

Vote for Glorfindel? Sure, whatever, make the case.

Accuse Glorfindel? Sure, whatever, make the case.

Disrespect Glorfindel’s moral framework as a person? No, let’s not do that.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:41 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:36 pm Who wants to have some fun witcha boy mac?

Please help me to have fun. SupertownJimmy is starting to break out again; he must be buried.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:42 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:30 pm Owner can you please expand briefly on those four scum reads, or direct me to already existing explanations

Colin and Luna both read me town, but then also voted for me. Both of them seem opportunistic.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 pm I think Colin is scum. Even before the flip, he was setting this up.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:06 pm If TH is good, Owner still deserves scrutiny. If Owner is bad, check TH’s wagon.
He read me town for a little bit, but the instant things started going south for me he quickly did what felt like a 180 to me and pushed for my lynch.

Or basically, this whole if-then situation is particularly bad when both wagons are positioned on good players, which I feel like Colin knows this.

Luna had sort of a tunnel vision or was quick to think me asking what changed Colin's mind meant in her mind that I was asking where I went wrong.

I guess imo it feels like they weren't truly reading me as town to begin with. Or how else could they make the leap to vote for me?

Kara is picture tell read.

Poutanko is lacking activity or vocal presence in the thread. Town!poutanko felt very noticeable to me in past games. She just appears to be different. Also the popcorn emote is sometimes associated with scum watching town destroy each other.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 pm**

I am unfamiliar with a “picture tell”

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 pm**

SORRY HAVENT HAD MY COFFEE YET LOL

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:45 pm**

I have significantly less interest in lynching Owner.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:47 pm**

As for players saying that I dodged questions, I would say Maslow's hierarchy of needs does apply here. (aka if I don't feel comfortable I'm not going to share stuff as I don't feel people will take me either seriously or won't view my potential insight as potentially important.)

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:49 pm**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:47 pm As for players saying that I dodged questions, I would say Maslow's hierarchy of needs does apply here. (aka if I don't feel comfortable I'm not going to share stuff as I don't feel people will take me either seriously or won't view my potential insight as potentially important.)

I appreciate your insight. It’s certainly more than I’ve bothered to offer.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:49 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 pm SORRY HAVENT HAD MY COFFEE YET LOL

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:53 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 pm I am unfamiliar with a “picture tell”

I read pictures and songs and determine whether it comes from a townie mindset or scummy one. Sometimes there are null ones which account for your personality, like DH with his Negan stuff or I sometimes do Loki grins.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:09 am**

OH! Do a Loki grin now!

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:10 am**

Epi, loved the 'four ingredient salad' comment.

JJJ: do I understand player salad?

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:12 am**

I should be in bed, but I'm working on a new tune that I dig.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:13 am**

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 pm I think Colin is scum. Even before the flip, he was setting this up.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:06 pm If TH is good, Owner still deserves scrutiny. If Owner is bad, check TH’s wagon.
He read me town for a little bit, but the instant things started going south for me he quickly did what felt like a 180 to me and pushed for my lynch.

Or basically, this whole if-then situation is particularly bad when both wagons are positioned on good players, which I feel like Colin knows this.

This is something that I will include in my own opinions. Good find.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:13 am**

Phones are an asspain. I am browsing ISOs, and I will just state emerging gut reads:

Colin - good
DH - good
INH - bad
Kyle - good

Bullzeye - bad
Epignosis - good
Glorfindel - good
Owner - good
poutanko - good
Soneji - good

juliets - bad
Long Con - good
Lunalee - good
Mac - good
nutella - good
Quin - good

Jack - bad
lap - bad
nova - good
speed - good
timmer - bad
karavalenge - bad

Request expansion as you so desire. I should be able to get to it at some point. Chuckles for Slytherin

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:14 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:10 am Epi, loved the 'four ingredient salad' comment.

JJJ: do I understand player salad?

I don’t remember what you said.

I know you’ve been on teams victimized by accusations of salad though so your attunement is probably solid.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:22 am**

Have I? My recollections are mostly of catching baddies with it. Maybe I look back through rose-coloured glasses.

Didn't I coin the phrsae?

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:22 am**

PHRAAAAASE

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:24 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:22 am Have I? My recollections are mostly of catching baddies with it. Maybe I look back through rose-coloured glasses.

Didn't I coin the phrsae?

That distinction belongs to Boomslang.

A prototypical example came late in Seinfeld when your teammate J. Peterman was facing a lynch.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:24 am**

I remember every Mafia thing. What a pointless talent.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:27 am**

My new song has run its course. I'm going to bed to sleep on it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:27 am**

A valued talent.

And, as a believer in Player Salad as a tell, that example really supports it. I do get, however, that the definition can be muddied easily. I think it's just gotta be analyzed by experts on a contextual basis.

Good night Epi!

Posted: **Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:31 am**

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:52 pm Okay, so reading owner's iso, I'd say he really and oddly blindered onto DH very early, and for what seems like entirely prev-game reasons. This allows him to talk a lot about suspicions towards sh, but without having to defend anything he says because, hey, is based on last game. And when pressed about it, he just versions of iunno I just feel it...

This can be a baddie move, but it can also just be blindering which ive done in the past. Those who know owner well, do you get any kind of alignment read from this angle?

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:59 pm Don't really have time to catch up before the lynch, but I can see from the Who Posted list that Nova still hasn't checked in so I will vote there today.

[VOTE: novaselinenever] aubergine

These are my least favorite posts in the thread, for unrelated reasons.

Timmer’s is a typical hedge, complete with all of adverbs and the disclaimer to render the product a cringe.

Bullzeye’s vote is just ugly under the circumstances. Evasion of prevailing discussions in favor of a whatever vote on a no-show is a bad look.

The Syndicate

Hogwarts Mafia - END

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