The Syndicate

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm I'm too lazy to explain why

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm Interested in hearing from anybody who has a strong read on Wilgy / Epi / Quin, particularly if you think that they're villagers.

They're players who I don't know very well and all tend to fall into the category of "has towny moments but nothing conclusive".

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm I'm too lazy to explain why

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:22 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:42 pm @☆Princess Abigail☆ would you be able to put together a full list of reads? Rainbow or tiers or something like that would be super. Explanations only if you feel like it.

I mean my list is just what I've posted

Your town or your not in my eyes

You and falcon are town and I'm like at least gonna fake confidence until exelo on both those reads.

I literally have not found anyone else this game. Wiml is probably the closest thing I have to another town lock at this point in catch up his posts are inquisitive and insightful in a way that's towny in mindset in my opinion. Their questions seem to come from a place of genuine solving and not from a place of pushing a scum agenda.

Now I do need to disclose that my dyslexia is particularly awful this game so I'm struggling to read and retain a lot of Wimls posts because they are often wordy but what I do manage to understand feels pure as snow to me...

Actually writing this post has made me pretty confident

TOWN CORE

JJJ
Wiml
Falc
+3

Falcon is like exclusively just based off the fact that there's a large consensus on him being town I am in agreement though less hoorah on it but others confidence is just kinda influencing my choice since it gels with my general read direction on falc

Adding Wilgy to this

JJJ
Wiml
Falc
Wilgy
+2

Game so ez let's go

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:49 pm Worried that a lot of the PoE isn't really interactable with in the ways that I'd like them to be due to a lot of players being so far behind the thread.

I don't hold it against people for being unable to keep up for whatever reason but I'm finding it hard to gauge confidence in this threadstate and it's very easy for villagers to get perma-stuck in the PoE because of it.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:09 pm

Spoiler: show

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:12 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:06 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am Jay, I think the way she is self content for posting town reads and tries to present herself as solvy is not towny

It was implied when i said mafia prefer to post town reads to not argue with the townies they are pushing that she is mafia for doing that.

If you noticed she didn't say I am a wolf for suspecting her, she said I played wolfy or something.

Again I can prove that this is how I play the game AS TOWN if you would like

Look, the way you tell me I saw you playing has the reverse. You saw me playing as well. You saw me being right and also wrong.
You know my play is unusual and my suspicions are often poor explained (coming from weak english skills), but also I always push what I consider wolfy behaviour. You can't just say I have bad faith in my push when I talk about it since so long.

I asked you questions. I waited for answers but I didn't receive things who could show me you have genuine thoughts regarding your suspicion on me. The fact you don't make scum cases in general has little importance for me.

You want me to believe you because you say so.
Sorry, I can't.
Yes, my vote is on you regardless the fact you posted because you don't gave me a reason to change my mind and I explained why.

We seem to talk past each other but I am sure I answered at your posts while you mostly AtEd and provided self meta.

If you are town, you have to show it in other way than self voting when the wagons are tied.

Self voting is bad regardless alignament.

The first condition for town is to find scum, not to suicide to prove wrong some people.
The second is to show themselves towny in thoughts and behaviour.
If a townie fails in these both aspects that doesn't mean their life is meaningless and they should die.
A game is won by town by teamwork more than by individual performance. And another force of town is in numbers. Keep town number respecting your own TMI on your alignment even if no one believes you and self press because you never know for sure the alignment of your cw.

If you are town, make me see it.

I disagree with a lot of your method.

The first priority for me as town is to find town
Than I want to get the rest of town to see what I see so that my town reads are safe
Than I want town to find me if they can.
If they can't I will willingly sacrifice myself if I have provided town with a winning town core than I've still done my job
Often town performance is better when I commit die.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:47 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm Interested in hearing from anybody who has a strong read on Wilgy / Epi / Quin, particularly if you think that they're villagers.

They're players who I don't know very well and all tend to fall into the category of "has towny moments but nothing conclusive".

I think that’s a fair read. Wilgy is probably the best of the three with respect to the proportion of his posts that seem town without raising questions. Epignosis seems town too, just with more room for a nefarious agenda in his decisions. Quin has a “good vibe” but nothing more.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:59 pm Would you mind talking a bit more about Wilgy?

On a micro level, I think he's got some individual posts that are villagery and appreciate his attitude and enthusiasm, especially coming from a triple wolf streak while also being ill. His solving seems much more natural and less linear than I remember him being in the wolf games of his I specced as well. I'm interested in what you've got on him though.

(Writing it down I probably have more there to justify calling him town than I initially realised tbh.)

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:52 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:49 pm Worried that a lot of the PoE isn't really interactable with in the ways that I'd like them to be due to a lot of players being so far behind the thread.

I don't hold it against people for being unable to keep up for whatever reason but I'm finding it hard to gauge confidence in this threadstate and it's very easy for villagers to get perma-stuck in the PoE because of it.

Define interactable?

Is it the fact that Me/LC/Epi/Quin have low post numbers resulting in not very many 50/50s?

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm Interested in hearing from anybody who has a strong read on Wilgy / Epi / Quin, particularly if you think that they're villagers.

They're players who I don't know very well and all tend to fall into the category of "has towny moments but nothing conclusive".

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:06 pm One initial note to consider: I think sometimes that when players take a bit longer to get involved (as DrWilgy did this time), we get into a state of mental inertia that locks them into a "low involvement" perception without it necessarily being true. Wilgy has 46 posts.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:07 pm careful to give me too much credit there Jay. Half my posts are about fettuccini.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:08 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm Interested in hearing from anybody who has a strong read on Wilgy / Epi / Quin, particularly if you think that they're villagers.

They're players who I don't know very well and all tend to fall into the category of "has towny moments but nothing conclusive".

I think Epi is town. It's not like he is out of his scum range or I have a big experience playing with him, but I liked his tone and solve.

Wilgy is relaxed and his jokes are funny - I tend to give town reads for players with good sense of humor. Also I liked his focus on Quin's vote and the way he talked about it

Quin is fluid in votes and reads, things I consider to be villagery. I don't remember meta, last time we were wolves together and I remember he was more stiff.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:11 pm Wiml your talkative mood is contagious, I forgot I promised to myself to be low poster

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:18 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:08 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm Interested in hearing from anybody who has a strong read on Wilgy / Epi / Quin, particularly if you think that they're villagers.

They're players who I don't know very well and all tend to fall into the category of "has towny moments but nothing conclusive".

I think Epi is town. It's not like he is out of his scum range or I have a big experience playing with him, but I liked his tone and solve.

Wilgy is relaxed and his jokes are funny - I tend to give town reads for players with good sense of humor. Also I liked his focus on Quin's vote and the way he talked about it

Quin is fluid in votes and reads, things I consider to be villagery. I don't remember meta, last time we were wolves together and I remember he was more stiff.

Alright, thank you. For reference, how would you order those reads in terms of confidence?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:27 pm It seems Lime Coke's return was to be lost, to grant Wiml a town read, and then to vote for Wiml.

I am not inclined to move my vote.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:28 pm If this game wouldn't have just 2 mafia I would say the current wagons are too frozen to be a hit and that the wolves are happy with the gamestate.
But as long as both top wagons are in a consensus Poe I don't think that idea is valid

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:44 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm I'm too lazy to explain why

Remember your training.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:51 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:22 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:42 pm @☆Princess Abigail☆ would you be able to put together a full list of reads? Rainbow or tiers or something like that would be super. Explanations only if you feel like it.

I mean my list is just what I've posted

Your town or your not in my eyes

You and falcon are town and I'm like at least gonna fake confidence until exelo on both those reads.

I literally have not found anyone else this game. Wiml is probably the closest thing I have to another town lock at this point in catch up his posts are inquisitive and insightful in a way that's towny in mindset in my opinion. Their questions seem to come from a place of genuine solving and not from a place of pushing a scum agenda.

Now I do need to disclose that my dyslexia is particularly awful this game so I'm struggling to read and retain a lot of Wimls posts because they are often wordy but what I do manage to understand feels pure as snow to me...

Actually writing this post has made me pretty confident

TOWN CORE

JJJ
Wiml
Falc
+3

Falcon is like exclusively just based off the fact that there's a large consensus on him being town I am in agreement though less hoorah on it but others confidence is just kinda influencing my choice since it gels with my general read direction on falc

Adding Wilgy to this

JJJ
Wiml
Falc
Wilgy
+2

Game so ez let's go

I figured you'd not give me a tr so definitively and quickly following Sesame Seed?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:56 pm A lot of silliness is resolved if voting for oneself is just against the rules.

I always forget to add that when I host. Next time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:37 pm If I was mafia I would have zero posts. You can trust me.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:36 pm I don't TR the highest posters because they post a lot, btw

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:11 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:07 pm careful to give me too much credit there Jay. Half my posts are about fettuccini.

That's true. I just saw in your ISO that ten posts are about how much I am steak.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:27 pm It seems Lime Coke's return was to be lost, to grant Wiml a town read, and then to vote for Wiml.

I am not inclined to move my vote.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:35 pm The other thing the answer to Wilgys question. It only applies to the very very first wagon to reach 3 votes because that's when people are trying to find their footing. This read only works when people are not comfortable and dug in.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:19 pm Quick Wilgy ISO review

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:03 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:55 pm @DrWilgy I know it sucks playing while ill, prioritise taking care of yourself first!!!

I'm happy just assuming you're a villager and giving you space for now tbh.

Aye, I'd just assume I'm an unknown though because I am.

I skimmed Falc and I agree this is T Falcon quite confidently. While I haven't seen LC's posts, I can believe T fal believes what he saw there and would be willing to sheep that so far.

Will nap and do some other thinking later.

[VOTE: LC] aubergine

This is fine. It's not wonderful, but it's fine. I have also town read falcon the whole game, so for Wilgy to snap to the same judgment and follow falcon's lead against a player I also have my vote on is fine.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:10 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:57 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:54 pm I do think being uninformed is a completely different beast. It's a lot easier to post when you have no clue.

Anyway, it's not worth dwelling on at this point. Kate is in my POE regardless of volume. I am considering Kate/Abigail as a difference check now (insert obligatory "or some softer version of that term").

I'd be interested in hearing your difference check read if you're up for explaining it?

The Kate/Abigail dif check is real. I remember thinking there was one but couldn't tell you for the life of me as to why I thought it.

Wild that it was observed by someone else though, I'd never had said anything and just let it amount to fuzzy sick brain.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:11 pm

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:45 pm This is extremely coherent for a tzenon.

Gonna put my vote here for now.

[VOTE: PA] aubergine

It was when I read this that I thought that implied a dif. Not sure why exactly.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:32 pm

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:29 pm You know I'm very tempted to have you guys lynch me just so I could prove definitively that intuition is better than stats.

Homie, I trust your intuition. Your intuition stat is like 99 compared to my 92.

You like dumped all your stats into intuition.

It's because I trust your intuition Abigail and you are on these lists.

It's also because I trust your intuition it'd be really weird for the Abigail read to be wrong without good reason.

Perhaps this is too mindmeld, and I won't shower Wilgy with praise for agreeing with my specific viewpoint. I will say though that Wilgy tends to solve games with complex layers of micro-structures (e.g., difference checks and wagon dynamics), so this is on-brand.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:10 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:58 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:54 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:39 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:27 pm I've become enlightened.

Team is:
Epi, Abigail
Epi, Kate
Wiml, Abigail
Wiml, Kate
Wilgy, Kate

Miss me wit dem @s

Are you townreading Lime Coke?

Nope.

I'm not reading LC rn. I haven't seen anything of them. My vote is only because Falcon town and Falcon probs goat.

What's specific about those teams you listed, then?

I assumed you meant that they were the only teams that you thought seemed likely.

Idk, they carried who I thought was the correct answer by quantity, by dif check and by gut reaction. I really wasn't thinking about other people in the moment.

If I were to update this actually thinking about it and the players involved this game it'd be like an evolving PoE that should be solved like: Kate/Abigail, LC/Wiml, Quin, Epi, Roxy? I think that's the greater PoE till other evolutions or events are seen.

However, I've only read what I've been around for still and Falc's ISO. Catching up continues to be difficult, so it's a matter of gauging in the moment for me so far.

This kind of follows from what I just said. Wilgy is definitely the type to work through a game solution by toying with pairs like the ones in this exchange. Including himself was dopey.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:47 pm I'd like to offer a 3rd wagon. [VOTE: Quin] aubergine

Homie was like,

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am A lynch between Abigail and LC could tell me a lot.

Then was like,

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:44 am Abigail has earned a Day 2 and I Do Not See It for LC.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'll try put it into words if I have time. It's just a suspicion that is There.

and I tried to poke the suspicion out,

and I got nothing.

Dude don't even mention me before dis.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:00 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:54 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:52 pm Aye, and I'm still good with either Brad or Abigail rn. Will put in some time now to deliberate between the two.

I offered Quin in thinking they were the most eager to grab the lowest hanging fruit, and am curious as to if anyone agrees.

I don’t really see it that way. He should reply though, if it’s possible in his time zone before day ends in three hours.

what way do you see it then? Did you see insight as to where Quin found the low poster wolf in me?

I don’t know why he suspects you, no, and that is something he needs to clear up. So your beef is understandable.

It doesn’t strike me as a generic “LHF” move though. If Quin is mafia then at least one of the bigger wagons is town. They could be called LHF in their own right. I don’t care for vanity votes in general, so regardless of whether his vote for you qualifies as LHF, I’d say it’s less than his best moment.

Gun to my head he felt a bit contrarian.

Aye contrarian feels correct, but the vote on me feels very no consequence in nature based on who it was on.

I don't see what is LHF as wagon deterministic. Like, if this is town Abigail, I'd not say that it's an LHF wagon (maybe Brad would be).

LHF results in no consequence for the voter because of the perception of no net T loss in effort/energy as a result of that vote.

Wilgy's gripes with Quin may be a bit petty, but I think they're technically valid. For a contrary view, one could argue that Wilgy is griping about a Quin vanity vote (on Wilgy) and placing a vanity vote of his own (on Quin). I don't think I care though. Quilgy quibbles.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:29 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:49 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml


One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.

I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.

I think it could be. I know I'm town.

I don't agree with locking falcon town for such weak reasons but I am town leaning falcon.

So to me it's always Michelle or Wiml

This exchange is fascinating.

Is the dif between Wiml/Michelle solely because we hit a 4 player involved wagon early? I love these observations and calls, but have also found that being on them while making said call allows me to manipulate them as wolf.

I suggested earlier in the thread that I thought Abigail's "one in four names" approach was Wilgy-esque, so it makes sense for Wilgy to take interest.

This may give some sense of the good things for Wilgy. More broadly, I am not sure I see any bad things.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:36 pm Than you do not know me well

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:53 pm have had an wild afternoon and need to get Ariya fast. So I have to vote now vote limey
I cannot read him one way or the other except the disappearing act is never a good sign. I'll thank Wiml for this if we get a hit but will not blame them if we don't. I do like their case and felt they have the knowledge of Limey that I just don't.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:14 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:11 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:14 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:06 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:05 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:55 am Well that's unfortunate.

What do you think of the reasons I gave for town reading falcon?

Farty.

I laughed.

Why do you read me as town if my town read on your suspect is farty?

I actually used that because you used it to describe my post and I though it was funny.

I just looked at it.

I think my thing was seeing him vote you and Michelle, mainly Michelle, and thinking it was bad.

Your townread on him I can maybe see from your POV with how he was reading you specifically.
Though I think the "Voting him until he creates a towncore" kind of just feels like a fake thing to use just to set a bar however high he wants and not give credit.

I'm back and forth on the read itself I'll have to see him a second go around.

What're your thoughts on D1 now?




This might be the last post that actually had any content that we could call solving.

falcon thank you bc this really is the only thing I can point to and say maybe falc is right coupled with Wiml read of them makes me think you and others are indeed right about them.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:59 pm

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:53 pm have had an wild afternoon and need to get Ariya fast. So I have to vote now vote limey
I cannot read him one way or the other except the disappearing act is never a good sign. I'll thank Wiml for this if we get a hit but will not blame them if we don't. I do like their case and felt they have the knowledge of Limey that I just don't.

Hmmm...

If Brad is town, does W Roxy have the need to stack here sheeping the Wiml?

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:40 pm So it must be Quin, diet Pepsi and poor poor Dr wolfy.

*solved*

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:04 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:59 pm

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:53 pm have had an wild afternoon and need to get Ariya fast. So I have to vote now vote limey
I cannot read him one way or the other except the disappearing act is never a good sign. I'll thank Wiml for this if we get a hit but will not blame them if we don't. I do like their case and felt they have the knowledge of Limey that I just don't.

Hmmm...

If Brad is town, does W Roxy have the need to stack here sheeping the Wiml?

My first guess would be no, though it'd be less about need and more about character. I think mafia Roxy would probably be less inclined to forgive Wiml for being wrong in advance if LC is town. It's just a small hunch though.