The Syndicate

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:41 pm Seanzie ( 7 ): Urist, NotAnAxehole, Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella
DrWilgy ( 6 ): sabie, dyachei, ender, seanzie, radishes, c4
NotAnAxehole ( 4 ): Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario
EnderWiggin ( 3 ): dyslexicon, jpic, falcon
112 ( 1 ): Sloonei
falcon45ca ( 1 ): 112
Porscha ( 1 ): linearpoint
sig ( 1 ): hollowkatt
Not Voting ( 3 ): Creature, sig, porscha

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:38 am BTW how do you guys know that the wolf captain will actually flip as wolf captain? I feel like the OP implies they would just flip as whatever role they were

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:56 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:41 pm Seanzie ( 7 ): Urist, NotAnAxehole, Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella
DrWilgy ( 6 ): sabie, dyachei, ender, seanzie, radishes, c4
NotAnAxehole ( 4 ): Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario
EnderWiggin ( 3 ): dyslexicon, jpic, falcon
112 ( 1 ): Sloonei
falcon45ca ( 1 ): 112
Porscha ( 1 ): linearpoint
sig ( 1 ): hollowkatt
Not Voting ( 3 ): Creature, sig, porscha

Just cuz I like staring at coloured lists.

What's clear is the scum did the usual thing where they don't want to sit too close together as if wagon proximity will give them away. What's unclear is how much of that was based around Wilgy; if Wilgy is town, the flavour of how they made their vote choices will be different.

I think there are certain slots that just have to be wolves. If we end up flipping e.g. Wilgy and he's town, suddenly we're running out of PoE space and we need to open up to dya/ilario or something.

What are people's thoughts on LP btw?

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:05 am The way creature defends sabie is bad regardless of whatever sabie is real or not

If Sabie is town creature is purposely trying to keep him alive as bait
If sabie is wolf then creature is protecting a wolfbro with kp

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:57 am

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:38 am BTW how do you guys know that the wolf captain will actually flip as wolf captain? I feel like the OP implies they would just flip as whatever role they were

I don't think we do know? I've certainly not thought of it that way - I'm just speculating on who the captain would be if the team was [old time syndicaters].

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:15 am It does when he keeps shooting other villas

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:16 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:57 am

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:38 am BTW how do you guys know that the wolf captain will actually flip as wolf captain? I feel like the OP implies they would just flip as whatever role they were

I don't think we do know? I've certainly not thought of it that way - I'm just speculating on who the captain would be if the team was [old time syndicaters].

If the team is old time syndicaters then I'm neither captain nor picked. That could also exclude Paopan.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:18 am

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:16 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:57 am

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:38 am BTW how do you guys know that the wolf captain will actually flip as wolf captain? I feel like the OP implies they would just flip as whatever role they were

I don't think we do know? I've certainly not thought of it that way - I'm just speculating on who the captain would be if the team was [old time syndicaters].

If the team is old time syndicaters then I'm neither captain nor picked. That could also exclude Paopan.

I know. My speculative list for that scenario didn't include you two.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:19 am Ur defense of sabie is so wolfy and not a towny perspective one bit

Who cares if they’re shooting people others incorrrecly suspected, it’s worrying that u want to protect that slot but Continuously tinfoil me and dya who actually shot wolves

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:20 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:25 am If the POE is correct, 4 of these 7 names are mafia:

Creature
DrWilgy
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
Phil and Gloria
sabie12

If your name is on the list, cross yourself off. Add me to it if you like. If your name is not on the list, you probably want to add me to it, so you're looking for 4 out of 8 rather than 4 out of 7. Sorry.

To the three civilians on this list, it's on you (and me) to prove to everybody else that you are town. Do so without claiming, please and thanks. A great weapon for proving your towniness is to simply hunt for the remaining bad guys. This game is not nearly as dire as it might have seemed ~24 hours ago. Let's all secure our 2022 wins here so we can all meet back for next year's GoC.

Paopan last minute EoD 2 to push towards tsp and insisting guillo was town could have been tmi push. Mac-yo last minute saved jpic from being on the chopping block and based on some of the responses to suspicion seem like scum mac. Wilgy has been saved from being chopped twice. First EoD creature unvoted which helped lead to seanzie being chopped. Wilgy has seemed more towny as the game goes on though so im torn there. LP claim to save alexa? I have to look more into sloonei. I remember the push on c4 but now he ended up flipping town. I still don't think creature is 100 percent free from suspicion as I could see him partnered with tsp or jpic who keeps saying he is the towniest person in the game and I think he is convincing as mafia. For now if I had to make a quick guess I'd say paopan jpic mac-yo wilgy but I'll have to look more into isos as well. I also need to sleep this game has been hurting my brain trying to figure it out.

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:18 am I read Mac iso for the way he treats creature and it's really bizarre

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:48 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:20 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:25 am If the POE is correct, 4 of these 7 names are mafia:

Creature
DrWilgy
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
Phil and Gloria
sabie12

If your name is on the list, cross yourself off. Add me to it if you like. If your name is not on the list, you probably want to add me to it, so you're looking for 4 out of 8 rather than 4 out of 7. Sorry.

To the three civilians on this list, it's on you (and me) to prove to everybody else that you are town. Do so without claiming, please and thanks. A great weapon for proving your towniness is to simply hunt for the remaining bad guys. This game is not nearly as dire as it might have seemed ~24 hours ago. Let's all secure our 2022 wins here so we can all meet back for next year's GoC.

Paopan last minute EoD 2 to push towards tsp and insisting guillo was town could have been tmi push. Mac-yo last minute saved jpic from being on the chopping block and based on some of the responses to suspicion seem like scum mac. Wilgy has been saved from being chopped twice. First EoD creature unvoted which helped lead to seanzie being chopped. Wilgy has seemed more towny as the game goes on though so im torn there. LP claim to save alexa? I have to look more into sloonei. I remember the push on c4 but now he ended up flipping town. I still don't think creature is 100 percent free from suspicion as I could see him partnered with tsp or jpic who keeps saying he is the towniest person in the game and I think he is convincing as mafia. For now if I had to make a quick guess I'd say paopan jpic mac-yo wilgy but I'll have to look more into isos as well. I also need to sleep this game has been hurting my brain trying to figure it out.

Please holster tonight

I think mafia are gonna soup tonight just a hunch but I think so, and if u shoot another town we might just straight up lose in one night. I think you shooting tonight can be a game losing move

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:06 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:48 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:20 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:25 am If the POE is correct, 4 of these 7 names are mafia:

Creature
DrWilgy
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
Phil and Gloria
sabie12

If your name is on the list, cross yourself off. Add me to it if you like. If your name is not on the list, you probably want to add me to it, so you're looking for 4 out of 8 rather than 4 out of 7. Sorry.

To the three civilians on this list, it's on you (and me) to prove to everybody else that you are town. Do so without claiming, please and thanks. A great weapon for proving your towniness is to simply hunt for the remaining bad guys. This game is not nearly as dire as it might have seemed ~24 hours ago. Let's all secure our 2022 wins here so we can all meet back for next year's GoC.

Paopan last minute EoD 2 to push towards tsp and insisting guillo was town could have been tmi push. Mac-yo last minute saved jpic from being on the chopping block and based on some of the responses to suspicion seem like scum mac. Wilgy has been saved from being chopped twice. First EoD creature unvoted which helped lead to seanzie being chopped. Wilgy has seemed more towny as the game goes on though so im torn there. LP claim to save alexa? I have to look more into sloonei. I remember the push on c4 but now he ended up flipping town. I still don't think creature is 100 percent free from suspicion as I could see him partnered with tsp or jpic who keeps saying he is the towniest person in the game and I think he is convincing as mafia. For now if I had to make a quick guess I'd say paopan jpic mac-yo wilgy but I'll have to look more into isos as well. I also need to sleep this game has been hurting my brain trying to figure it out.

Please holster tonight

I think mafia are gonna soup tonight just a hunch but I think so, and if u shoot another town we might just straight up lose in one night. I think you shooting tonight can be a game losing move

Okay yeah I see what you're saying here. Yeah I chose targets that were within the POE and it sucks I ended up being wrong. I don't want to be wrong again. I was going to say have falcon check me if there's any doubt but depends if we even live past tonight. You think creature is keeping me alive to lull me into a false sense of security and then soup me?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:46 am

Belzy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:39 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:37 am

Belzy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:33 am People really talked me out of voting Sabie laat day. Don't lynch the town vig, the Ender kill is a towny kill. Well, it is still a towny that got shot and now two by Sabie.

I agree with what others have surmised that Sabie's shot choices were fine, as both Ender and C4 were acceptable choices.

But I'm still thinking that if scum picked roles, they'd want a Vig role if it was offered. And it would make sense that scum might get the Night vig if town are getting a handful of 1x Day vigs.

So I think it is likely Sabie is town, but I don't want to clear her entirely yet.

It is hard to say. If I am a scummy vig, I would shoot scummy townies for the cred.

I agree it's a viable strategy.

Although Sabie could also just shoot towny townies and then keep quiet and not claim the shots. Maybe they feared someone watching/tracking the shots? But if I was a scum Vig I'd probably shoot alexa/nutella/etc and then just not say anything in the thread. I might get caught in the end but it would still be a positive for the scum team.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:27 pm I have a bad feeling the mafia captain just picked the boring role selection though.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:57 am Scum can pick roles or players. If I had to pick, I’d definitely pick roles. Seems way more powerful, and picking people just seems like a ehhhh kind of mechanic. But that’s just me.

Picking the mafia team was done once at PerC in a game where the IC was mafia. Yeah. Think about that lol

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff

Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:22 pm Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:32 pm Wow this got intense so quick

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:11 pmWho is Neeko?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:12 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:11 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

I think you are.

I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying

These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.

I believe him when he says he is low energy. Take note that being low energy and unable to meaningfully engage with the game is a classic Creature scumtell.

Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:51 pm I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:34 pm Is soup kill a thing?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:06 pm Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:07 pm Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles

Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.

Category 3: Flame Fanning

Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:07 pm lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:18 pm

112 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:17 pm early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo

Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

-

Please vote Creature.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:12 am ftr I find it hard Paopan's "slip" is legit but I don't really townread them so I'll entertain the idea

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:28 am

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:27 am I didn't even know Scotty had a good rep as wolf and hence why I asked after Paopan said they would draft alexa and Scotty

If Paopan is a wolf this should somewhat clear them

I'm afraid this push probably leads to nowhere though

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:35 am Guess I'll votepark on Paopan for a while but for postgame cred I think they're just town

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:35 pm I'm registering that a lot of people say they would have picked me as mafia in a draft. And while that's cute, I would just like to make it clear that I would bitch slap the living shit out of anyone who did that. I think it's pretty widely known I hate to play as mafia lol.

I probably wouldn't draft you for mafia

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:37 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:35 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 pm Do we just lynch Marmot?

sell me

idk

Thought they seemed wolfy and Mac is voting them

what do you find wolfy about them

Very unimpressive for Marmot standards

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:58 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:51 pm Alison - Wolf?
dyachei - Wolf?
LinearPoint - Wolf?
Marmot - Wolf
NotAnAxehole - Wolf?
Porscha - Wolf?
Scotty - Wolf
Seanzie - Wolf?

Might be three or four wolves here

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:10 pm If I had a vig shot I'd probably trust my shot to dyachei and/or Phil and Gloria

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:46 am What you all think about Dizzy? I honestly don't know how to independently read them but I feel like there's that slight confidence vibe indicating they might be a hit just like there was that same confidence vibe on Marmot.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:50 am I don't believe the wolfteam is a team of potatoes. Behind three or four wolves making the game seem too easy to town there are always three or four other wolves deeping the shit out of the rest of the game.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:12 pm I suppose we're now gonna kill a lot of unknown LHFs who will all just flip town

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:07 am I agree there are criticisms that are valid but also I think a lot of what you're painting as scummy is more style/personality based?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:05 am I was suss of creature in d1/beginning of D2 but was told he's hitting his town meta so I left it.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:06 pm Fuck this

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:09 pm Let's lynch people who have been actually wolfy for fuck's sake

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:12 pm Seanzie is someone I can see wolves picking

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:11 pm I won't oppose the policy on NAA tbh

It just sucks we'd be 1/6 D1

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:10 pm c4 is not TMIing

I was pretty aware NAA would fake red checks here

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:37 pm My desire to kill NAA is purely policy/to punish. We're now forced to find wolf so we don't snowball into a wolf stomp just like that Avatar game did.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:52 am Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:50 am If Creature is mafia, he has undergone a transformation since I last played with him. Granted, there has been a long enough gap for that to be possible.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:41 pm

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:39 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:22 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:18 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:16 pmi like this list for the most part

i'm at leaning town on creature and lp at this point, would swap in porscha and.... idk guillo?

I don't think Porscha. Maybe I'm missing something with Guillo and I just think I can read him while I actually can't. I probably haven't payed too much attention to his posts after I decided he was town tbh

Can someone explain why Creature is town?

In his scum game, I seem to recall him pushing a much harder agenda and was a lot stiffer in how he interacted. In the town game I have seen, he just seems detached from everything and that reminds me a little bit of that. It's mainly meta which isn't strong.

Only scummy thing I remember was the marmot interaction I had with him

It frustrates me that he doesn't explain why he has the reads he has. This is not something I think is normal for him?

I just tried to explain why Marmot felt wolfy at the time. I'm not very good at translating my feelings into academical words though.