The Syndicate

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:48 am I wasn't gonna post this after Alison chose the good approach, but I'm deciding to keep that line in this spoiler just in case it helps her in future games, maybe it will help.

it's like scattered thoughts, maybe it helps people see where I'm at or something, just jotted down things I think about

Spoiler: show

I thought tutuu's backlash at me was pretty whatever, looked like a slip at first but town do dumb stuff all the time, especially when they misunderstand things.

It's pretty uncharacteristic of her but I'll pass it off as an issue outside the game.

Alison's sluggish push on me is annoying but not really AI I think. If I were to say anything wise, I'd say if you were going to go for a PoE approach as you call it and solve the game as if only 10 people are playing it, you're kinda doing it wrong.

Also remember that I have a temper and we both have a pretty high chance of being town and you're doing nothing by discouraging me from posting, apart from making me not want to post myself clear and hating my villa team and then probably you're the one that's gonna call that out post-game anyway despite actively working against your wincon.

You aren't getting anything AI worth when you make comments like "I can never get to town on ted if he posts like this". You're only setting the grounds for a fight out of which I'm probably gonna come as clean as a soap bar and the fact that I didn't take that opportunity should tell you that I'm town here. If you're genuinely interested in discerning my AI, wait for more posts or ask me about specific posts. Otherwise you're doing nothing but picking fights and those fights rarely end up in a reliable read.

Tim and Odd's brawl felt kind of squint.gif, both sides ended up kinda looking elsewhere after the fact, it felt weird. I thought Tim's posts aren't AI at all and his push on Odd specifically isn't, I think him as a wolf would know what happened the last time he got into a brawl and I heard he thrives in tunnels either way + the context of the push was literally the same as his last villager game. I'll take it a step further and actually note that I didn't really like his position in the "war" - it felt like he was pushing Odd for something that looks scummy as opposed to something that actually made Odd more likely to flip scum, ergo, his insistence on why Odd wants me to respond to stuff. I struggle to buy the fact that you think that is gonna make him more likely to flip wolf and I think it was actually more of a pretext for getting into the tunnel itself and "looking good".

I will go over Tim's posts again and see if I buy into that, those are just my initial thoughts as I've seen them. My initial reactions to reading the whole thing as I remember them.

Odd's ISO was fine upon a glance but, as I said, it felt like he kind of wanted to pull a switcheroo for something that I still fail to comprehend but I'm waiting for a response.

On that note, I will say that I don't intend to engage with any of my wolf suspects - so please be respectful and don't throw a tantrum if I don't reply to your queries if I feel like they are agenda driven or you're just looking to pick a fight for the fun of it. My reads are my reads, if I get your feelings hurt by scum reading you then I'm sorry. If you're town then trust that I will calibrate my reads and if you're scum, I'm not gonna convince you that you have a wolf role PM so I just deem it a waste of time to directly engage with wolves, especially replying to their defence of potential cases. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:31 pm if I'm null for dya does that mean she respects my wolf game

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:31 pm if I'm null for dya does that mean she respects my wolf game

I do respect your wolf game, yes

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:26 pm herm is the same herm from g9, right?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:31 pm if I'm null for dya does that mean she respects my wolf game

I do respect your wolf game, yes

what, when have you watched a wolf game of mine?

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:25 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:33 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:31 pm if I'm null for dya does that mean she respects my wolf game

I do respect your wolf game, yes

what, when have you watched a wolf game of mine?

I don't remember but I was either told about or saw one a while ago?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm Herm don't forget to give a read on telemundo please

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:34 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:33 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:31 pm if I'm null for dya does that mean she respects my wolf game

I do respect your wolf game, yes

what, when have you watched a wolf game of mine?

I don't remember but I was either told about or saw one a while ago?

idk if you missed my Tim post but I wanted you to weigh in on it

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:03 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:42 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:40 pm dya, thoughts on tim's fight with oddmerta?

also, do you get anything AI out of his first read on Mac?

so like...that's tim as both alignments. I still have tim as null. I don't remember reading it as a "fight" but more of a oddmerta didn't want to townread tim so easily

is there something i need to look at more closely?

I reckon that's him as either alignment, but I guess...DId it come across as genuine?

I deduced he's likely to have tunnels anyway, but upon a first read it felt like the build up to that tunnel was for credit reaching more than an actual tunnel. The reason for why the tunnel took off was because Odd was asking my opinion on Tim's vote and he singled him out for it, which kinda looks like one of the "wolf that pushes people for things that can be interpreted as scummy but not actually making someone more likely to flip scum off " mindsets.

As opposed to the last game, Tim had an actual reason to believe that he was being finessed by a wolf, but in here he started off saying that Odd is someone that probably knows Tim.

So...If he thought that was the case, then I struggle to really see why he thought he was being pushed by a wolf trying to "yeet the LHF", given that, if Odd would've known Tim, then he would've known what he's getting himself into if he pushes Tim?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:03 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:42 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:40 pm dya, thoughts on tim's fight with oddmerta?

also, do you get anything AI out of his first read on Mac?

so like...that's tim as both alignments. I still have tim as null. I don't remember reading it as a "fight" but more of a oddmerta didn't want to townread tim so easily

is there something i need to look at more closely?

I reckon that's him as either alignment, but I guess...DId it come across as genuine?

I deduced he's likely to have tunnels anyway, but upon a first read it felt like the build up to that tunnel was for credit reaching more than an actual tunnel. The reason for why the tunnel took off was because Odd was asking my opinion on Tim's vote and he singled him out for it, which kinda looks like one of the "wolf that pushes people for things that can be interpreted as scummy but not actually making someone more likely to flip scum off " mindsets.

As opposed to the last game, Tim had an actual reason to believe that he was being finessed by a wolf, but in here he started off saying that Odd is someone that probably knows Tim.

So...If he thought that was the case, then I struggle to really see why he thought he was being pushed by a wolf trying to "yeet the LHF", given that, if Odd would've known Tim, then he would've known what he's getting himself into if he pushes Tim?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:39 pm I vaguely recall Tim having a meta of being suspicious that people who push him early are wolves because he believes that wolves who don't know him well like to push him (because his tone sounds LHF-y to them or whatever) early. I don't know how true this is but I do recall that he genuinely believes this as town so I don't think his "I must smell like bait for wolves" stuff is AI.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:52 am 2) I don't recognize this Oddmerta but assume that behind the name is someone I know from somewhere.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:36 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:03 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:42 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:40 pm dya, thoughts on tim's fight with oddmerta?

also, do you get anything AI out of his first read on Mac?

so like...that's tim as both alignments. I still have tim as null. I don't remember reading it as a "fight" but more of a oddmerta didn't want to townread tim so easily

is there something i need to look at more closely?

I reckon that's him as either alignment, but I guess...DId it come across as genuine?

I deduced he's likely to have tunnels anyway, but upon a first read it felt like the build up to that tunnel was for credit reaching more than an actual tunnel. The reason for why the tunnel took off was because Odd was asking my opinion on Tim's vote and he singled him out for it, which kinda looks like one of the "wolf that pushes people for things that can be interpreted as scummy but not actually making someone more likely to flip scum off " mindsets.

As opposed to the last game, Tim had an actual reason to believe that he was being finessed by a wolf, but in here he started off saying that Odd is someone that probably knows Tim.

So...If he thought that was the case, then I struggle to really see why he thought he was being pushed by a wolf trying to "yeet the LHF", given that, if Odd would've known Tim, then he would've known what he's getting himself into if he pushes Tim?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:02 pm Evidence for Wilgy being mafia:
- scum has a reason to try to undermine people in the towncore I guess? (this is a kinda weak reason though since town can easily be skeptical as well)

Evidence for Wilgy being town:
- decent tone

- stubborn about reads in a town way. Town stubbornness tends to feel more like they don't want to be bullied around or strongarmed by power wolves, or because they feel the logic of their read is correct and tone reads they don't get can't outweight that. Mafia stubbornness trends towards making a big show of things, drawing attention to how stubbornly townie you are, dragging out the discussion and shitting up the thread until people agree with you because you're loud and post frequently. Wilgy's stubbornness is quiet, determined and focused on his own ideas, not the perception people have of him.

- waltzing into the thread and unashamedly making multiple reads that go strongly against thread consensus is a pretty audacious move to make as mafia, and I do not believe Wilgy is a particularly audacious wolf. (it's worth noting that this logic has burned me pretty badly before, though, so this is the weakest reason in this category)

Conclusion:
- Wilgy probably >rand town.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:13 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:12 am stop inflating my wolf range, I'm out of it by miles right now

you're the only one that can't read me lol

I think everything you've done up til now has been within wolf range except the post complaining about how people are inflating your wolf range lol

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:14 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:13 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:12 am stop inflating my wolf range, I'm out of it by miles right now

you're the only one that can't read me lol

I think everything you've done up til now has been within wolf range except the post complaining about how people are inflating your wolf range lol

maybe I'm being pessimistic about my wolf range then but to me it's fairly obvious when I'm villager and when I'm a wolf

like it's glaring

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:18 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:14 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:13 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:12 am stop inflating my wolf range, I'm out of it by miles right now

you're the only one that can't read me lol

I think everything you've done up til now has been within wolf range except the post complaining about how people are inflating your wolf range lol

maybe I'm being pessimistic about my wolf range then but to me it's fairly obvious when I'm villager and when I'm a wolf

like it's glaring

That's because you know your own alignment so you're sort of TMI'd on that tbh. But I say this is out of your wolf range because "you're inflating my wolf range, what I'm doing is only doable by town me" is both 1) something that wolves flinch away subconsciously from faking (if you're wolf and in a mode where you're trying to deceive people, "I'm not good enough to deceive you about that" is something you automatically shy away from for most people), and 2) a sort of TMI of yourself as town because you know your own role card. Wolves would know damn well this was in their wolf range and so not be so annoyed/skeptical when people say it is.

Obviously this is fakeable and maybe you're pulling the wool over my eyes etc. but it has the ring of truth to me. On the balance of probabilities I see town ted saying this more than scum ted.

Herm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:45 pm I think some wolves/scum are going to push afk/inactive people early on in the game.

They always end up as easy alternatives.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:18 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:14 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:13 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:12 am stop inflating my wolf range, I'm out of it by miles right now

you're the only one that can't read me lol

I think everything you've done up til now has been within wolf range except the post complaining about how people are inflating your wolf range lol

maybe I'm being pessimistic about my wolf range then but to me it's fairly obvious when I'm villager and when I'm a wolf

like it's glaring

That's because you know your own alignment so you're sort of TMI'd on that tbh. But I say this is out of your wolf range because "you're inflating my wolf range, what I'm doing is only doable by town me" is both 1) something that wolves flinch away subconsciously from faking (if you're wolf and in a mode where you're trying to deceive people, "I'm not good enough to deceive you about that" is something you automatically shy away from for most people), and 2) a sort of TMI of yourself as town because you know your own role card. Wolves would know damn well this was in their wolf range and so not be so annoyed/skeptical when people say it is.

Obviously this is fakeable and maybe you're pulling the wool over my eyes etc. but it has the ring of truth to me. On the balance of probabilities I see town ted saying this more than scum ted.

Alison has this gift of using as many words as possible to explain concepts that I would never even bother to put into words

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:23 am

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:21 am Okay I like Alison, she talks about her thoughts pretty clearly and with quotes or evidences that makes her reach the conclusion or helps her thought process.
so far, I think I like the way they actually read players, i thought the same and had a few views on players similar to her, but a lot she said I'd nod along and think it again and end up agreeing with it although I never thought it that way before. I think I'll just town lean her.

with me trying my new way of playing mafia, that is forming the "Town cores" first, which I'm trying for the first time in another on going game, so I'm not exactly good at this but I think I'll try it out. it might be a bit tough cause i was "You are scum until proven otherwise" before so I can't just change to "oh you so inno, come hug me!"

so yeah,

Town leans:
Alison
Master Radishes

Null:
Ted

I'll be expanding my read list as we proceed.

If this flips scum I am quitting mafia. If God exists, this is out of not only His scum range, but Satan's as well.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:49 pm Oh also keep in mind Samu isn't a native speaker and may be struggling to read up. I recall him mentioning in G9 finding it slow going at times due to this.

When he gets here let him know nothing before his arrival is worth reading.

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:23 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:19 am I've established I can't read ted for shit except sometimes

are you scum? this post is kinda bad but also idk

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:51 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:23 am

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:21 am Okay I like Alison, she talks about her thoughts pretty clearly and with quotes or evidences that makes her reach the conclusion or helps her thought process.
so far, I think I like the way they actually read players, i thought the same and had a few views on players similar to her, but a lot she said I'd nod along and think it again and end up agreeing with it although I never thought it that way before. I think I'll just town lean her.

with me trying my new way of playing mafia, that is forming the "Town cores" first, which I'm trying for the first time in another on going game, so I'm not exactly good at this but I think I'll try it out. it might be a bit tough cause i was "You are scum until proven otherwise" before so I can't just change to "oh you so inno, come hug me!"

so yeah,

Town leans:
Alison
Master Radishes

Null:
Ted

I'll be expanding my read list as we proceed.

If this flips scum I am quitting mafia. If God exists, this is out of not only His scum range, but Satan's as well.

lmao

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:43 pm Tim:

1) I think taking an avatar read overly seriously is either NAI (because it reflects an inability to get jokes that is indicative of personality, not role card), or slightly town (because wolves don't care about silly meme reads that they know they won't get exed off, but town can feel indignant that people are reading them for stupid reasons). You could make the argument that scum might be upset about being caught for the wrong reasons but Oddmerta did not feel that way at all imo.

2) If your conclusion is that wolves are either subtle or afk because they didn't pile in on the D1 tunnel, that means you agree that Oddmerta is town, no?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:24 am there is a world where jpic is town that enjoys being scum read because it awakens a fuzzy feeling in his nether region

lame

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:24 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:23 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:21 am I am frozen

what is your favorite fast food chain?

Taco Bell. Need them Churros

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:24 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:24 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:23 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:21 am I am frozen

what is your favorite fast food chain?

Taco Bell. Need them Churros

u were supposed to say Tim Hortons

Herm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:35 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm Herm don't forget to give a read on telemundo please

Sure.

I have 15 minutes to spare before I have to head off for work, but I'll see if I can triangulate his posts.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:54 pm

Herm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:35 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm Herm don't forget to give a read on telemundo please

Sure.

I have 15 minutes to spare before I have to head off for work, but I'll see if I can triangulate his posts.

to innocent for mafia (the game)

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:22 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:18 am I am quite serious about my ted read by the way. He genuinely feels sort of demotivated and lazy in the way I'd expect him to be if he rolled scum yet again and then has to deal with this gamestate. The fact that his content has consisted solely of of deflections/jokes is in this context >rand scum.

[VOTE: ted] aubergine

where you go i will follow

[VOTE: ted] aubergine

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:56 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:54 pm

Herm wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:35 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:32 pm Herm don't forget to give a read on telemundo please

Sure.

I have 15 minutes to spare before I have to head off for work, but I'll see if I can triangulate his posts.

to innocent for mafia (the game)

Oh please do not! I said and thought the same, I still regret it.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:47 pm Just fyi Herm always does nicknames for peeps even as scum. Kind of sad for Nutella she's not cool enough for one tbh.

Not saying he's a wolf, just providing info.



Get back to work everyone. You're doing great so far. Keep that energy up.