The Syndicate

Just “casual lover” with a bonus poison immunity so it doesn’t feel underpowered.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:20 am Quick question:

I really doubt there's two mafia. But let's say Gnome is what she claims to be but has the name Mafia attached to it.

How do you figure it has a mention or capacity of poison immunity in its description/role?

Point being:

In a hypothetical world with 2 mafia and Gnome is once, I'm not outed because there's no guarantee that what's hidden in the description isn't poison immunity.

You can treat as if it didn't though.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:22 am You can treat as if it didn't have immunity though. It just wouldn't be fact that I'm mafia.

Ebwop.

The only alternative theory that comes to mind is the one Sloonei suggested — that when we Get Casual it automatically protects from poison.

I doubt it. I think there’d be something written into my own role to indicate that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:34 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:28 am btw i still think it's gnome

To be clear you think Gnome is the poisoner?

The idea of me being the poisoner and poisoning myself is too wacky for words. On the other hand, it's a good reason for me to spend the money to hire a personal chef!

Tell me, my true love, why you think that I am mafia?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:41 am Every Gnome town read in this thread is bad.

That's so.... unromantic...
And so... wrong...

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:47 am If Gnome is mafia this game she fooled me fair and square. The lovers thing threw me for a loop but JJJ pointed out it was two way so not cruel to give to a mafioso, she just straight deceived me with her carefree attitude and seeming belief she was about to die as a townie.

I wish that I were this talented as a scum. But, alas, no.
JJJ is weaving a complicated web, but it's full of holes. He has become so fixated on his belief that I am scum that he is getting to the point that he is unable to see any other possibilities.

Also, there is very little suspicion on JJJ. It is universally assumed that he is town. But that is not necessarily the case. He could be a scum healer, as well as my lover. If so, it would be in his interest to heal me from the poison because my not dying would look suspicious. He could then say... but why didn't gnome die...

And the next day... why wasn't gnome NKed?

He couldn't NK me because he would die as well, and, as far as I know, killing yourself on purpose is not a good idea for either town or scum.

Once we flip TSP, who I believe is the poisoner, we really need to look at JJJ carefully. My guess is that his posts won't give too much information. I think that he is probably a strong scum player who doesn't ever act out-and-out scummy.

What do you think of the possibility that JJJ is mafia?

it sounds to me like you are claiming mafia

I guess I should consider the possibility that there's a scum healer who healed you to frame you

but... why bother? why not just let you die? I mean, reviving you from the dead just to kill you again? Doesn't make sense to me.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:01 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:00 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:26 am All y'all: who would you include in your POE pool of exactly three mafia suspects?

Mac -> Gnome -> LoMo

I haven't really checked on LoMo recently nor compared him to Allcrab yet.

Mac & Gnome could be switched if I'm convinced it's possible and not implausible that there's two town in Mac/Alison. I just feel a bit surprised that both of them are alive up to this point along with JJJ and Sloonei.

Gnome got red checked

when was I red checked? And by whom?
It was fake.
I'm town.

So Gnome tell me.

Why did you survive the poison?

If it was a mafia healer healing you, what's the purpose of healing you only to get you misexed? why not just sit there and watch you die instantly without any effort on their part?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:58 am I guess I should consider the possibility that there's a scum healer who healed you to frame you

but... why bother? why not just let you die? I mean, reviving you from the dead just to kill you again? Doesn't make sense to me.

I admit that it's bizarre.
But a lot of wacky things have happened during the course of this game.
I can explain none of them.
Maybe the key is not being logical.

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:00 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:58 am I guess I should consider the possibility that there's a scum healer who healed you to frame you

but... why bother? why not just let you die? I mean, reviving you from the dead just to kill you again? Doesn't make sense to me.

I admit that it's bizarre.
But a lot of wacky things have happened during the course of this game.
I can explain none of them.
Maybe the key is not being logical.

you are now outed scum.

you are asked why you survived a poison that only a mafioso could conceivably survive and your response is "idk man it just happened. stop being so logical".

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:00 am So Gnome tell me.

Why did you survive the poison?

If it was a mafia healer healing you, what's the purpose of healing you only to get you misexed? why not just sit there and watch you die instantly without any effort on their part?

I know, right?
It's very crazy.
I could have just passed away from the poison.
But I'm still here, living on borrowed time.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:01 am you are asked why you survived a poison that only a mafioso could conceivably survive and your response is "idk man it just happened. stop being so logical".

LOL, your interpretation is funnier than my response.

I could see a townie who is genuinely baffled why they survived the poisoned shrugging their shoulders and going "I don't know it just happened". But the attempt to dissuade me from further inquiry with the "stop being so logical" line is I think outing. A townie would encourage more inquiry into what happened because they themselves are curious and want to know what's going on and why they were saved. They would actively try to eliminate possibilities, come up with theories or propose solutions. I can see no world where a townie wishes to shut down discussion of the matter entirely and just handwave it away.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:05 am I could see a townie who is genuinely baffled why they survived the poisoned shrugging their shoulders and going "I don't know it just happened". But the attempt to dissuade me from further inquiry with the "stop being so logical" line is I think outing. A townie would encourage more inquiry into what happened because they themselves are curious and want to know what's going on and why they were saved. They would actively try to eliminate possibilities, come up with theories or propose solutions. I can see no world where a townie wishes to shut down discussion of the matter entirely and just handwave it away.

Either you need to reread my comment or you're misinterpreting it on purpose.
I didn't say, "Stop being so logical." I said, "Maybe the key is not being logical." Notice the word "maybe," which doesn't at all mean the same thing as "stop."

You might say that this is being nitpicky. But, as someone with a good deal of experience as an editor, I assure you that it is not. By turning my suggestion into an imperative, you have completely changed the meaning of the sentence. You have eliminated all possibility of doubt, which I implied with the word "maybe." My suggestion was that it is possible that logical thinking doesn't work in a situation where there are too many unknowns.

What I suggested was to step outside the box. Perhaps use your imagination, which is how I function in mafia and in real life, in general. Yes, there are perameters, such as good use of the English language (when I'm an editor), but boxes are things to break out of. I never issued a command, so interpreting my comment as a command just so you could call me scum is incorrect at the least and purposely misleading at the worst. Which one is it, Alison?

It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

Tell you what. Give me one single reason to believe that logic is inaccurate or unreliable here.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:17 am It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

I don't have an analytical mind.
And the unknown is why I am not dead from the poison.
So you are using my thinking style as a weapon to claim that I am scum?
I believe that you can do better than that.

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:17 am It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

I don't have an analytical mind.
And the unknown is why I am not dead from the poison.
So you are using my thinking style as a weapon to claim that I am scum?
I believe that you can do better than that.

One unknown. Easily resolved by logic. The logic says you are scum.

If I am misrepresenting you here is your chance to restate your point. Why is logic fallible here? Why shouldn't we believe that you are scum?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:18 am Tell you what. Give me one single reason to believe that logic is inaccurate or unreliable here.

The mystery of my survival.
Why am I not dead?
Wouldn't a mafia player want me to be dead?
I would be just one more dead townie, and the scum would be one player closer to victory.
That would be the logical scum play.
But the logical scum play did not occur.
I don't know why that happened.
So I have to think of possibilities that don't look logical for an explanation.
I admit that I am clueless, however.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:21 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:17 am It doesn't matter to me whether you're commanding or suggesting. A real townie has no reason to doubt logic here. We do not have that many unknowns, and logic has been accurate throughout the course of this game. You trying your best to yell back at me and nitpick the wording of my argument when the point - that a townie would use stone cold logic to uncover the truth, not whisk us away on fancy flights of imagination - is clear is doubly outing.

I don't have an analytical mind.
And the unknown is why I am not dead from the poison.
So you are using my thinking style as a weapon to claim that I am scum?
I believe that you can do better than that.

One unknown. Easily resolved by logic. The logic says you are scum.

If I am misrepresenting you here is your chance to restate your point. Why is logic fallible here? Why shouldn't we believe that you are scum?

Logic has failed because I didn't die.
That makes no sense at all.
As I just pointed out, there is no reason for scum to let me live.

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:21 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:18 am Tell you what. Give me one single reason to believe that logic is inaccurate or unreliable here.

The mystery of my survival.
Why am I not dead?
Wouldn't a mafia player want me to be dead?
I would be just one more dead townie, and the scum would be one player closer to victory.
That would be the logical scum play.
But the logical scum play did not occur.
I don't know why that happened.
So I have to think of possibilities that don't look logical for an explanation.
I admit that I am clueless, however.

The other explanation is that you are scum. If you have no alternative explanations I will go with the one I have at hand.

You being poisonproof scum would be an entirely logical explanation for every event that has occurred. So to me it doesn't seem clear logic has failed.

If you think logic has failed because you have TMI on your green rolecard, then kindly use your imagination to proffer us with an alternative explanation as to the events that have occurred.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:23 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:21 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:18 am Tell you what. Give me one single reason to believe that logic is inaccurate or unreliable here.

The mystery of my survival.
Why am I not dead?
Wouldn't a mafia player want me to be dead?
I would be just one more dead townie, and the scum would be one player closer to victory.
That would be the logical scum play.
But the logical scum play did not occur.
I don't know why that happened.
So I have to think of possibilities that don't look logical for an explanation.
I admit that I am clueless, however.

The other explanation is that you are scum. If you have no alternative explanations I will go with the one I have at hand.

I presented a scenario in which JJJ could have framed me as his unfaithful, scum lover.
There are two players who can't seem to account for their night actions.
You are one of them.
It is still possible that you are scum.
Which would explain your abrupt shift from "gnome is town" to "gnome is scum."
But I am not confident with a scum read of you.
It wouldn't make any sense that you would kill off your own team.
That is counter productive.
So I have no explanation and have gone back to complete and utter cluelessness.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:24 am You being poisonproof scum would be an entirely logical explanation for every event that has occurred. So to me it doesn't seem clear logic has failed.

If you think logic has failed because you have TMI on your green rolecard, then kindly use your imagination to proffer us with an alternative explanation as to the events that have occurred.

I already did.
It was the JJJ story, with him saving his true love from poison, only to call her scum.
I'll try to think of more.
But it will have to be later since I have to get ready to go to work.

The JJJ is scum healer scenario doesn't explain why he let you live. Neither does the Alison is scum healer scenario.

I will give you free reign now. Brainstorm, imagine, explore to your heart's content. Solve the mystery of why you lived. If you are innocent then there is a concrete and full explanation waiting out there for you to find it.

Perhaps Tony lied. He used a fake poison on you and told us he used a real poison to troll us.

Why would he fake poison you? Why would he troll us when he can't win regardless?

Tony lying seems to work against him. If we are confident Gnome is scum we will just turbo him and you without any hesitation. So Tony has really no reason to lie here. And he had no reason to fake poison you earlier either.

How about this one.

Gnome and Martin are both mafia and Martin healed her.

Was supposed to get the vaccine today. Instead I got sick.

[VOTE: Tonystarkprime] aubergine because removing the poisoner seems like a good idea.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:10 am How about this one.

Gnome and Martin are both mafia and Martin healed her.

Already covered. We flip gnome, if game doesn't end we flip martin.

@Garden Gnome we can talk it over properly in the night if you activate. This day is already drawing to a close.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:32 am Perhaps Tony lied. He used a fake poison on you and told us he used a real poison to troll us.

Why would he fake poison you? Why would he troll us when he can't win regardless?

Why you shouldn’t chop me

I actually sorta wonder about the idea of poison immunity here

Like it doesn’t make sense

Alison thought it was weird when I claimed poison immunity, why should someone else have it

Vests don’t cover poison

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:20 pm Alison thought it was weird when I claimed poison immunity, why should someone else have it

I thought it was sketchy that you claimed town poison immunity because there's already two claimed poison healers

mafia having poison protection to reduce swing makes more sense

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:31 am @Garden Gnome we can talk it over properly in the night if you activate. This day is already drawing to a close.

All right!

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:01 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:20 pm Alison thought it was weird when I claimed poison immunity, why should someone else have it

I thought it was sketchy that you claimed town poison immunity because there's already two claimed poison healers

mafia having poison protection to reduce swing makes more sense

I think the second poison healer is more the standout here

Does the setup have a good reason to keep descriptions hidden on flip?

Maybe I'm just being entitled but I don't see much reason for it unless there's something about the roles that explain things wrt other roles or events; where knowing it would reduce the power or intended influence.

The only applicable reason I can immediately imagine is the Cupid shot (as that took a cycle at least to take effect) and maybe the mafia factional kill modifier (on the basis no one knows what the hell that was and could've been anything). Other than that though idk and feels like there would be more to it.

My personal bias would like to suggest that the poison mechanics in this setup and whether it affects targets or not is another potential reason.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:18 pm I think Allcrab and Gnome are town and I still have faith in Martin - specifically I think he hid the number of shots he had so he could surprise the poisoner, and this is a townie thing to do and saving Gnome is also townie.

This would leave Mac as mafia and TSP as poisoner. Mac has been exclusively trying to widen the POE at all costs today and is thus scummy. TSP has done nothing. Behavior wise they fit into my solve.

In the next few posts (because the multiple quotes don't appear to be working), I will show Alison's progression from Gnome is town to Gnome is scum! Earlier in D6, Alison was absolutely convinced that I was town. Above is what she says to explain why I am town, along with Allcrab and Martin.

I think they just want to leave as much to the imagination as they can. I would expect the players themselves knew the precise details of their abilities.

That’s why I would expect my role to indicate to me that pairing up as lovers has a protective power if that was actually true.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:52 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:51 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:45 pm Mac trying to convince me Alison fake poisoned herself is a little hard to take seriously.

It's Alison. Remember her as Gambit Demon? She is a 5D player.

I don’t doubt she’s capable of the strategy. I doubt it’s a thing in the first place.

You must be unfamiliar with poison mechanics because being able to fake it is a common part of the role.

To Mac's credit it is true that Gnome's survival suggests the presence of a fake poison. However, poisoners are not usually permitted to self target.

Now doubt has crept in when she suggests a fake poison. This is the part that is conjecture because there is no way that anyone but the poisoner knows about the existence of a fake poison.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:47 am If Gnome is mafia this game she fooled me fair and square. The lovers thing threw me for a loop but JJJ pointed out it was two way so not cruel to give to a mafioso, she just straight deceived me with her carefree attitude and seeming belief she was about to die as a townie.

Alison has now persuaded herself that I could be scum. She is reading way too much into my comments and I believe that she is seeing what she wants to see, as opposed to what is actually there. But she has never seen me as scum, so she really doesn't know what to look for.

@Alison , do you really think that I would vote two of my teammates off the island if I were scum? Feel free to ask anyone from Mafia Cafe who is still alive. They know that I really hate busing my teammates. If you think that I would actually kill off two of my teammates, please tell me why you think that.

Gnomey, do you believe Alison to be mistaken in her reasoning or is she someone you believe to be mafia?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:01 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:00 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:26 am All y'all: who would you include in your POE pool of exactly three mafia suspects?

Mac -> Gnome -> LoMo

I haven't really checked on LoMo recently nor compared him to Allcrab yet.

Mac & Gnome could be switched if I'm convinced it's possible and not implausible that there's two town in Mac/Alison. I just feel a bit surprised that both of them are alive up to this point along with JJJ and Sloonei.

Gnome got red checked

Here, Alison is claiming that I was red checked. It's unclear where that came from and why she had such a confident town read of me earlier.