The Syndicate

when you see your crush holding hands with someone else

man im dying to know why wilgy's color didnt change

its not a small deal for me at all wtf. i need to know why. it just doesnt make sense

did a bug happen when he was transitioned from a host to a normal user? has he hosted games before?

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:03 am Every time somebody openwolfs, I put them a tier lower on my internal readlist.

this makes two

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:15 pm yay i got a putin point

(what is that)

+1 Putin Point for asking a good question!



Putin Points are completely meaningless joke points that I may or may not hand out as the game progresses. I did something similar in Blue vs Red with Hillary Points, except there's not actually a prize this time around.

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:16 am To ted: probably. I think I alluded to it in an earlier post.

Vul we both know that writing long posts doesn't make you automatically town

ive no idea anymore

i dont have reads

no reads yolo they are just a crutch invented by the mu elite to keep people from unleashing their full potential

in order to become the strongest mafia player you can possibly be, you need to learn how to kill all the mafia without making a single read

you fools keep making reads and such and pretending ur very smart, but im not falling for ppls tricks anymore. im not a puppet thats gonna let herself be led by some strings

G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:36 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:15 pm yay i got a putin point

(what is that)

+1 Putin Point for asking a good question!



Putin Points are completely meaningless joke points that I may or may not hand out as the game progresses. I did something similar in Blue vs Red with Hillary Points, except there's not actually a prize this time around.

aw rip

Following up on my points from earlier in the day...

-Please review the following modification to the rules:

Rules

7) Info-dumping and/or power-role-claiming is forbidden. Don't break games, build cases.
7a. Thou shalt not fake-claim a power role either.

All anyone can say is that they are town/civvie/villager/whateveryournativetermforgoodguyis.

-Two people have yet to open their role card PM. Despite this, I think we will start Day 1 somewhere around 9:30 p.m. EST tonight.

I'm at the top of page 12 and basically everything Hally has done all game so far seems incredibly townie

however that was also true in the finale and they were scum there, so they don't get to be clear yet

yea take that hally

G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:46 pm All anyone can say is that they are town/civvie/villager/whateveryournativetermforgoodguyis.

what if i desire to say i am mafia/scum/wolf/whateveryournativetermforbadguysis

who are u to tell me no

nietzsche killed god

but i will one-up him

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:47 pm I'm at the top of page 12 and basically everything Hally has done all game so far seems incredibly townie

however that was also true in the finale and they were scum there, so they don't get to be clear yet

i feel like im way townier than i was in the finale but ymmv

the classic hally purposefully put less effort in champs than in her next wolf syndicate game

in order to win as mafia u need to be unpredictable

thats why one time i tried to kill myself as mafia in a mafiascum game and the host told me hes gonna tell the mods if i keep insisting to night kill myself. fool. he's just a sheeple like u guys. part of consumerism society. blinded by corporate greed. Vi for Vendetta.

i can’t decide what my reads on 112 and ash are. feels like i vacillate every other minute between “probably just town” and “could be wolfing” for both of them. but maybe i shouldn’t worry about this yet since it’s d0

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:53 pm the classic hally purposefully put less effort in champs than in her next wolf syndicate game

in order to win as mafia u need to be unpredictable

thats why one time i tried to kill myself as mafia in a mafiascum game and the host told me hes gonna tell the mods if i keep insisting to night kill myself. fool. he's just a sheeple like u guys. part of consumerism society. blinded by corporate greed. Vi for Vendetta.

lol

ftr i think i have exited my wolf range just in terms of like the volume of consistently solvy thoughts i’ve been able to give. like idk i definitely don’t think i exit my wolf range in every town game i play but in this one i think i have. but i also don’t expect other ppl to see that because my subjective experience of wolfing is different from how it appears to others

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:19 am on page 8, going to take a break and catch up later

could vulgard be any more obviously scum?

112 is probably town for how they expressed this take + their general willingness to go against one of the most widely TR'd players as if it were self-evident

this read is definitely not a product of my own doubts about Vul

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:00 pm

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:19 am on page 8, going to take a break and catch up later

could vulgard be any more obviously scum?

112 is probably town for how they expressed this take + their general willingness to go against one of the most widely TR'd players as if it were self-evident

this read is definitely not a product of my own doubts about Vul

what are your doubts about vul?

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:56 pm So.

The first few posts in 112's iso are mostly shitposts, nothing to see here. There is some shade thrown Ted's way by calling him mafia, and there's suspicion on Hally's tone, but unexplained.

When 112 returns to the thread, she immediately jumps the gun and comes in guns blazing with two scumreads -- on me, and on Poison. The one on me is explained by "stilted tone" and "repeating his cases" to "mimic progression." From my perspective, I... don't really understand it. I can't even call it outlandish, I just don't understand it and can't really respond to it. I've experienced that before while being scumread by mafia. This is a very similar feeling, and it's the reason I began to suspect 112 after she had returned to the thread.

112's read on Poison baffles me for many of the same reasons. It says that there are multiple elements in Poison's post about me, lists them all, then says there is nothing there... so IS THERE something, or is there nothing? And then there is a sudden complaint about tone, because "some of Poison's posts seem exaggerated." ...But tutuu is doing a similar thing, for example. And for some reason, that didn't seem to ring any alarm bells, did it?

#663. This one's actually correct, but I'm town and I'm doing this as town. I'd like to have actual backup and evidence for my reads this time around, thank you. And since my memory is very, very poor, posting like this helps me just like it (hopefully) helps some other people.

#665. Another post I don't understand. "Forced image of originality?" What... How did you get there? Why do you think so? Yet again, I'm stumped and I can't really respond. This is so far removed from what I could envision as a viable reason for scumreading me that it makes me believe it's false.

The next few posts are relatively "small" and attract much less attention. That said, I dislike these two posts in particular.

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:12 pm I don't know what to think of Ash. On the surface I think he's very towny, but I don't like how he gave me such an easy town lock. It feels like a TMI read.

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:14 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:12 pm im not immediately finding dunya town which saddnends me, townreading her was one of the highlights of this game that i was looking forward to

reasons for why could i not be townreading her but she could still be town:

1) its been a while since we played. a few months. maybe im not remembering stuff properly
2) she could be tired cuz its late and maybe she had a long day at work
3) im biased cuz i already have so much townreads and im hesitant to make more. but i dont think thats true. but it could be

I'm reading dunya's posts with a magnifying glass. I think there could be something there.

I think these two posts read like "mafia trying to look productive." Once again, I don't understand what 112's doing here, or where she's coming from. The read on Ash is pure hedge. "Very towny on the surface, but has potential TMI on me." These feel like two things which should never go together in a read on someone, if that makes sense. 112 picked two extremes here and seemingly called it a day. "Throwing it out there."

And the post about dunya is just "nothing," as 112 called Poison's post earlier. Why even write this post? I don't see a good reason why town would write this post, not even spontaneity, but mafia would write this post to look productive. It isn't written in a relaxed way, either, and that is something which would make this post look townier. 112 is the one with a very stilted tone, in my opinion. Which is ironic, considering what she accused me of. Remember? Stilted tone. Oh, and repeating my cases all the time. Which I'm not doing in this post, and which I haven't done in half my posts at least.

Finally, #803 is very cheap and not original, but that's less relevant in comparison to what I've already written.

Overall, I think 112's push on me is in bad faith, and perhaps the one on Poison as well. I don't understand half of the arguments 112 has used in both. Her contributions to the game outside of these two scumreads can be boiled down to "a few posts which look designed to seem mildly productive" and "fluffposting/shitposting early, with shade thrown Hally's way that never developed into anything beyond." Overall, this looks actively scummy, and I actually have confidence in this read unlike my earlier proddings.

That's all.

I had a sudden desire to do a 180 and completely change the playstyle. I don't say no to my impulses.

It's late here and I am going to sleep, but this is what I think of doing for the rest of this game:

1) Will make lower number of posts but with bigger content.

2) Will focus on trying very hard and not goofing around.

3) Will do perfect punctuation and capitalization.

4) Will put a lot of effort into reading people and explaining my reads to people.

I want to do the thing that makes me uncomfortable; I don't like stagnation; I like change. Change is good. Bringing change is good. Changing yourself is good.

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:52 pm

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:50 pm

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 am That said, I don't think I should be a town leader and I generally avoid the role. I have miskilled too many townies while being in that role, and since I don't like the guilt of killing a fellow town member, doing it repeatedly and leading town into its demise isn't something I want to do as town.

Vul I have a question for you

did you intentionally alter your speech patterns for this game (or prior to this game, I guess, it's been a while since we've actually played together)

so it's not how he actually writes

if you're referring to the thing where his posts read like he ate a thesaurus for breakfast then no, that's not normally how he writes

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:02 pm

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:00 pm

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:19 am on page 8, going to take a break and catch up later

could vulgard be any more obviously scum?

112 is probably town for how they expressed this take + their general willingness to go against one of the most widely TR'd players as if it were self-evident

this read is definitely not a product of my own doubts about Vul

what are your doubts about vul?

when Vul is a villager, he's usually a shining beacon of towniness such that I can basically just open his posts and start scrolling them like 'this post was written by a villager, this post was written by a villager, this post was written by a villager...' and I can't really do that here

also his posts are excessively formal in a way that's not consistent with how he normally writes, which makes me think they might be fabricated and he's trying to make them sound more ?legitimate? or something. not weighting this one nearly as much as the 'his posts were not written by a villager' thing because I know English isn't his first language, and also he's an English major, which could maybe explain it

feeling pretty good about:

112
Nanook
Ash

Hally*

feeling actively bad about:

Vul
maybe Long Con? their scumclaim post felt kind of like they were claiming scum to fit in with the other scumclaimers

*the fact that I am feeling good about them is uncorrelated with their actual alignment

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:44 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:43 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:43 pm

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:42 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:07 am I think you can read vulgard by effort/level of caring

That’s what my one game sample size says anyways so I’m going with it

this isn't how you read Vulgard, he tries hard and cares a lot regardless of his alignment

Spoiler: show

the true way of reading Vul is 'were his posts written by a villager'

were his posts written by a villager

Is there a villager out there that would like to write my posts?

is this a scum claim

Yup. Scum claim here. It's the latest cool thing, right?

[mention]Arete[/mention] Just fwiw, Long Con wasn't claiming scum here from my perception. He was saying "Is there a villager out there that would like to write my posts" as a way to joke about "I feel too lazy to make posts". And in the last part of the chain quote he went along with what Hally was saying just for the sake of going along with it.

[mention]tutuu[/mention] are you bad this game?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:53 pm @tutuu are you bad this game?

No.

(I'm worried if you will perceive the way I wrote that as rude since it's different from how I usually write. Please don't. I denoted a few posts above about this.)

Not sure what to do with the fact that Vulgard actively came in saying “me and Arete are like Sloonei and JJJ, we always read each other right, she’s definitely going to townread me,” and Arete coming in like “Nope.”

I mean, there’s an obvious thing to do with it. But I kinda don’t want to do that thing.

I smell a 1v1 death tunnel and i can’t decide if I love it or hate it

Fuck it let’s lean into it

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

For those who were asking about my Hally read/progression, let me highlight a few of the things she's done that I thought were towny, starting from the beginning of the game.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:54 pm 112 is a good wolf right? because i already got light town pings from him calling out my tone. not sure a wolf would wanna come in swinging at me right away. but if he’s as good a wolf as i think he might be this sort of read doesn’t apply

This post hit me right away. Not because it's an especially towny post in isolation, but because of the context it occurs in. Hally has come into the thread in full meme mode, and suddenly this actual game-relevant thought asserts itself and compels her to change tack. It felt like a very real and unintentional shift in mind-track that came from a town brain that got distracted by something solvable popping up unexpectedly. As if you're walking along whistling to yourself and thinking about that thing you're going to buy and oh hey there's a dollar on the sidewalk.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:26 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:22 am Good morning ^^

I never trust Ted, Hally feels nice, Nanook is as expected, 112 and Ash idk.

Little play time from me, i will keep it short

why do i feel nice?

Doesn't take the town cred and bank it, instead pushes back and interrogates, and against a player known for retaliatory scumreads.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:49 am i have a scum read already

whoever can tell me who it is gets town points

This one comes about ten minutes after the last post. That passage of time felt very natural to me, as I was going through a similar process at about the same speed, going from "Ok, why?" to "Hmm, maybe that means something," to "Yeah, actually, I think that might mean something." Most of the Hally/me mindmelds have been me saying something she was thinking, which doesn't super impress me because someone can just quote you and go "Same! OMG we're so on the same wavelength!" This time she was saying something I was thinking. Assuming of course that she was actually thinking of Michelle but I think she had to be because I don't think Hally goes and throws out a question like that with no answer in mind as either alignment.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:39 am michelles reaction wasn’t really what i was expecting regardless of her alignment tbh

This post is very much a "I had a mental model of this player and it was wrong and now I don't really know what to do with them" kind of post. And it matches Hally's tone and attitude over the next series of posts. Her brain was on a track, it got derailed by unexpected information. Seems like genuine surprise from someone who doesn't know how things fit, rather than someone who's coming in with an outcome they want and is trying to make them fit.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:43 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:42 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:38 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:38 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:35 am

Spoiler: show

kinda regret posting the michelle read because now i feel like i forced the issue too much

Hally town cuz they put it in spoiler (is my real read)

Unless theyre the type of scum that goes to rob a house and cleans it up after robbing it as a nice gesture

idk what this means

If i was scum and doing what ur doing i wouldnt have put that post in a spoiler to make sure its more out there so ppl can see my "progression". I thought putting it in a spoiler as an extra step to show ur emotions was towny

oh

i mean your conclusion is correct but i have no idea if i would use a spoiler as scum or not

Correcting the townread rather than just banking it.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:44 am think that’s a towny read for tutuu to make though. i don’t think a wolf thinks to fake a read about how me using a spoiler is towny

Subsequent reflection on what it means about tutuu feels real. Comes a natural period of time afterwards, feels like a natural timeframe for Hally's brain to move onto that subject and come to that conclusion.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:46 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:45 amMich town

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

yea i was probably wrong

This kind of embarrassment feels real. This is "oh I probably made a dumb read and look dumb". Wolves don't care about making dumb reads, they know their reads are wrong, they're trying to be wrong, they don't get embarassed.

And on and on it goes. Hally's whole ISO is packed with things I can point to and say why that thing feels towny. I could fill pages with this stuff.

And then I come to "But Hally good wolf". Yeah that stuff looks towny to me. But I know Hally can look towny as a wolf. Heck, I've seen her do some of these exact things as a wolf just recently. So I don't want to give her a cheap townread. I even briefly toy with the idea that maybe she's a wolf for being too towny and trying too hard before deciding that's kind of a stupid read because she's towny as hell as town too.

But she just keeps being towny and the list of reasons to think Hally is town keeps getting longer and longer and the list of reasons to think Hally is a wolf is stuck at "But Hally good wolf." I don't like null reads, I have absolutely nothing to scum read, what am I supposed to do? I have to town read this.

Can I be wrong? Of course I can be wrong. I'm wrong a lot. I'm not locking this read for all time, I'm gonna continually reassess, and if I get a reason to think Hally's a wolf I'll jump on her. But I don't have one, and I'm not going to invent one that's not there like I did in G8 reunion. So for now, my best guess of Hally's role card is she's town.

I do not like that Nanook still (STILL) cannot articulate why he townread Arete so early. It feels like a TMI read that he can't back up with a real town thought process.

Ash Lael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:22 pm I do not like that Nanook still (STILL) cannot articulate why he townread Arete so early. It feels like a TMI read that he can't back up with a real town thought process.

Welcome to playing with nanook I hope you enjoy your experience

Tbh if quoting her entire iso as explanation wasn’t enough then idk what is

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:21 pm the reason i asked for 112’s read on me earlier was because she made the post about how ash tr’ing her so fast upon her reentrance looked like it could maybe be tmi but she had no comment on me doing the same thing at the same time even though she sr me early on. im not sure why ash and i were treated differently. might be a total stretch but i wondered if 112/ash are w/w and 112 was trying to get some distancing in by sussing him over some random thing and just didn’t think of me because i didn’t factor into her objective in that moment and also because they already decided to kill me n1 so they’re tr’ing me now

I also very much want an answer on this.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:33 pm Tbh if quoting her entire iso as explanation wasn’t enough then idk what is

If it wasn't day zero, this is where I would snapvote you.

Ash Lael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:43 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:33 pm Tbh if quoting her entire iso as explanation wasn’t enough then idk what is

If it wasn't day zero, this is where I would snapvote you.

Ash Lael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:43 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:33 pm Tbh if quoting her entire iso as explanation wasn’t enough then idk what is

If it wasn't day zero, this is where I would snapvote you.

Yes bb vote me hard daddy

The sun was setting out the right-hand side of the train. It had been a partly sunny day- not too hot, but warm enough outside to necessitate sliding the door open a few inches to help ventilate train car.

With nothing else to do but wait out the slow journey across a sprawling landscape, the travelers got to know each other a bit. Some were doctors, some were scientists, and some had even been average day workers before running afoul of the Russian government. Some were single, some were married, and some were widowed and widowered because of Putin’s crackdown on their disobedience.

Chelsea was at least able to feign interest in the lives and trauma of her companions. Sidney, however, just sat on a box and stared out the slats on the side of the rail car.

“You okay?” Chelsea asked as she sat down beside him.

“It’s funny,” he said. “Here I am, cooped up in tin can in the middle of nowhere, trying to reach freedom, and yet this is the freest I will probably ever be again in my life.”

“Maybe they’ll let you off easy after being abducted and held captive by the Trumps,” Chelsea offered.

“Don’t forget that my role in one of the biggest political scandals the world has ever known is still unresolved. I tried to kill myself before they could arrest me. The federal government has no choice but to make an example out of me.”

“And no thoughts of suicide now?”

“No,” Sidney demurred, “I’m too bitter and hellbent on revenge to care right now. But reality sinks in a little more each day.”

“It’s good to have a purpose,” Chelsea said and patted him on the shoulder and walked over to the rest of the group.

“There are 17 of us,” one man said. “I hear that 17 is unlucky number in Italy.”

“Then it’s a good thing you’re all Russian,” Chelsea joked. Everybody laughed. “And now that you’re all in good spirits,” she continued, “it’s time for us to disembark.”

Confused looks crossed everyone’s faces.

“I thought we were taking this train all the way into Nizhny?” someone asked.

“We were going to,” Sidney said, standing up. “But that was before Viktor double-crossed us.”

“What do you mean?” another asked.

“Viktor wasn’t late for the train,” Chelsea said. “Viktor is dead. Yuri caught him making contact with the police last night. They know we’re heading in this direction. In all likelihood, Russian troops will storm this train when it reaches Nizhny. We made Viktor confess before snapping his neck.”

“You killed Viktor?”

“Yes,” Sidney said as he slid the train door open a few feet. “And I will kill any one of you who slows us down or otherwise stands in my way of getting home. Now, one at a time, everybody jump, tuck, and roll. We’re a few miles from Nizhny. We don’t want to miss our next train.”

/vote Nanook.

I demand an actual explanation of your early Arete townread.

Ash Lael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 pm /vote Nanook.

I demand an actual explanation of your early Arete townread.

Tag yourself, I’m the bulldog

The most explanation you’re getting is that their entrance felt townie

I could probably bullshit some more reasonining to but I don’t feel like it so what you’re getting is the actual reason for it, take it or leave it

Reasonining? I need sleep

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:00 pm The most explanation you’re getting is that their entrance felt townie

I could probably bullshit some more reasonining to but I don’t feel like it so what you’re getting is the actual reason for it, take it or leave it

Why did it feel townie?

[VOTE: Ash Lael] aubergine

Feels like scum trying to settle into a reasonable-looking tunnel on Nanook. I actually activated Enhanced Gut Protocols in this game, so my gut reads can be trusted up to 68-83% correct.

Cool name by the way. What is it?

I AM A MAFIA

RAHHH

Gonna kill Nanook first

okay what's going on