The Syndicate

Vote Epignosis

(yes, I know it doesn't do anything, I just want to make it clear what my stance is from day to day)

Making a list of who protects who only gives more information to the mafia about who is unprotected. And mafia wins the game immediately if they kill nutella, so it is completely useless to know who failed to protect her the day after we lose the game. The strategy you are proposing would make it trivially easy for the mafia to win just by attacking the operator on the night where a mafia member is scheduled to protect her. And a public list of who protects who would make it easier for the mafia to know who they can safely kill since there isn't enough heals to protect everyone at once.

It is correct for town to keep when and who they are using their protect on secret so mafia doesn't know who is being protected, if the operator is shielded, and how many protects the town has left.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:09 pm Are you voting Epi cos he's super cool or cos your stance is to shoot him? Just wanna clarify.

I meant like, player 1: protects player 2
Player 2: protects player 3
And did forth. For the odd number of night where there's only 1 kill and 1 protect would save nutella it's not thaaaaat bad an idea. clearly, I will protect nutella cos I don't trust all the rest of y'all not to pull one on me

Yeah, that works for like one round, then we run out of protects because each protect is one-shot.

ok, misread the OP - I thought each Bunker could only protect once. Apparently they have 4 shots. Still not enough to waste them on a mass protect of every player in the game.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:33 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:32 pm ok, misread the OP - I thought each Bunker could only protect once. Apparently they have 4 shots. Still not enough to waste them on a mass protect of every player in the game.

I'm sad you're scum this game. =(

I'm really not

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:35 pm Okay so I'm not the only one who thought that mightve been a slip.

It's not a slip. :P In games with open setups, if I forgot or am confused about some aspect of the game, I usually refer to the OP to check the game mechanics rather than my role PM so I don't have to leave the thread. I've done it both as town and scum before.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:37 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:36 pmI'm really not

Time will reveal all. You cannot escape time!

But also, ok, then tell me who is!

I'm still catching up (as you can tell from the posts I quoted). I'll keep you up to date as I read.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:24 am maybe this is a bit too early but i also townread nanook for their low effort one-liner quips and lowkey trolling / lack of discussing in good faith

I don't understand why this is a reason to TR nanook? It feels NAI to me. Is this nanook meta or something?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:03 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 pm
(yes, I know it doesn't do anything, I just want to make it clear what my stance is from day to day)

Why do you feel the need to say this? Ppl already know that D0 votes work like this.

I mean, this is my first time playing on the site, I don't have any clue what people do or don't know so I opted for clarity since it costs me nothing. D0s are not standard practice in any site I've played in before.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:07 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:03 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 pm
(yes, I know it doesn't do anything, I just want to make it clear what my stance is from day to day)

Why do you feel the need to say this? Ppl already know that D0 votes work like this.

I was JUST thinking about that, and why I put Alison at the bottom of my good pile.

It felt like a slightly forced entry to show people she is already hunting. We don't know why she finds epi worthy of a vote or anything else. Didn't like that part tbh.

?

I literally explained right after my vote why I thought Epi's plan was bad and would give the mafia an advantage. It should be self-evident why I think that is a scummy thing to do.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:05 am im confirmed derp cleared town. i was towny regardless. haters can eat my dab

I don't think many people would have the ability to project this amount of brashness as wolf, so I'm putting tutuu in my tentative townpile for now.

Am currently at the top of page 4. My townpile is tutuu and nanook and my scumpile is nobody.

ok, just finished page 4. dunya can be in the town pile too.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:56 pm Reads:

Town:
Tutu - Towny posts, good reasoning and mulling over of reads. I see nothing wrong.
Proto - Can be town for placing themselves in a position of handing out town cred to people. Making themselves the judge - towny thing.
Dunya - Probably town, and I really want her to be or else I fear it will be very difficult. Seems very proactive and starts getting reads asap. Only played with her once and I was scum that game, but she started giving reads asap there too. Be town.
Nanook - I don't think I've ever seen Nanook as scum, but gut vibe too stronk. I just liked the "Oh no, let's not be embarrassed" and also wanting to come up with a better plan but not having it yet. Just seemed genuine.

Townish:
Carot - I liked her aufhouahdfoajfpo and her reentrance to the thread.
LC - I kind of agree with Tutu's reasoning for town leaning on him. Him assuming scum would target Nut every night. Don't see anything wrong with his posts.
Tony - Maybe ever so slightly, cause I feel like he wanted to take control over strategy in a way that seemed towny. Not just following.

Null:
Epi - I really don't know.
Soneji - No comment.
Alison - I don't know yet. Not great tbh.
Rej - Also not great. Rej was an easy town read for me in a game way back I remember. I get nothing here.
Bimbo - Hi

Scummy:
Drag - Much scum wow. Haven't liked his posts. Feels like he's TMI-ing on Carot, scummy in interaction with Dunya. Also Dunya is never wrong, and if she is it's her fault and not mine.

dyslexicon is scum with drago for this post

this "you'll all regret shooting me" stuff from epi is super forced

epi, dys, drago and one more

i still think that a fixed protection strategy is just going to let the mafia know who is safe to kill and I think a high degree of randomness/autonomy in who to use your protect on is more likely to be correct. you can organize a specific defense plan for nutella if you want, that is reasonable, but the rest of the protects should be left to the decision of the bunker so the mafia don't know who they can and can't kill

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:19 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:18 pm this "you'll all regret shooting me" stuff from epi is super forced

epi, dys, drago and one more

What does "forced" look like when it isn't "super forced?"

for one, I think the "you'll all regret shooting me when I flip town" attitude comes from town most often when they are actually about to die. like l-1 with thread consensus to kill them in a regular game, or when the laser gun operator has announced their intention to shoot them in this game.

this mindset generally comes from frustration at the fact that they're being unfairly killed even though they are town, along with the bittersweet knowledge that they'll shortly be revealed to be town and then everyone who suspected them is going to have egg on their face. it only makes sense if you're actually about to die, otherwise that frustration and gloating attitude doesn't occur.

i think you are faking it in order to get townread for that attitude

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:23 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:22 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:19 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:18 pm this "you'll all regret shooting me" stuff from epi is super forced

epi, dys, drago and one more

What does "forced" look like when it isn't "super forced?"

for one, I think the "you'll all regret shooting me when I flip town" attitude comes from town most often when they are actually about to die. like l-1 with thread consensus to kill them in a regular game, or when the laser gun operator has announced their intention to shoot them in this game.

this mindset generally comes from frustration at the fact that they're being unfairly killed even though they are town, along with the bittersweet knowledge that they'll shortly be revealed to be town and then everyone who suspected them is going to have egg on their face. it only makes sense if you're actually about to die, otherwise that frustration and gloating attitude doesn't occur.

i think you are faking it in order to get townread for that attitude

In this setup, I don't need to fake anything to get "townread" from any of you.

I just need to fool nutella. I know how to do that plenty.

discussion in the thread can bias nutella. if everyone in the thread is talking about how townie you are and how your attitude makes you more likely to be town, that increases the % chance that nutella doesn't shoot you. conversely, being read as town means people are more likely to listen to your reads so you can push mislasers or just lead town astray. the idea that the way this setup works means scum doesn't benefit at all from trying to look town in front of everyone is a hot lie

maybe epi is town after all and this is just the way his personality works

dyslexicon's "everyone is town or null except drago" readslist still reeks of bussing to me and I think there's a significant chance that they're partners together

Fully caught up in the thread.

reads (towniest to least townie) :
Alison & nutella - lock
tutuu - strongest town
nanook - second strongest town
dunya - I liked the case on drago quite a bit
protocultures - I think there's a significant chance that spending 2000 words analyzing the setup and doing math for the optimal town protection scheme comes from town and not mafia
Long Con / rej / soneji / bimbo - null slot
tonystarkprime / carotenoid - one or two posts that pinged me (#261 for tony, #323 for caro) but everything else is fine
Epignosis - second highest scum read, slightly weaker now that I see epig's attitude carries over everywhere which points to it being a personality thing rather than him forcing a specific attitude
macdougall / dyslexicon - mafia for reasons explained above

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:29 pm maybe epi is town after all and this is just the way his personality works

How does my personality work?

I originally suspected you because I thought you were trying too hard to project the "shoot me if you want, you'll all regret it when I flip town" attitude. My evidence that this was forced was "town doesn't actually act like this unless they're actually on the verge of dying". But later on you seemed to carry this "I am town, I don't care what anyone else thinks, and I don't care if I die because it proves all my haters wrong" attitude everywhere you went which made me think it may be just linked to your personality rather than a false front you put up.

The specific post that made me think that way was you just saying straight up "yes, my goal is to bias nutella", which reflects a very "I don't care about anyone else, I'm doing it my way" way of thinking that matches up with the "I don't care if you shoot me, you'll only regret it" attitude you had earlier

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:52 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:37 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:35 pm Okay so I'm not the only one who thought that mightve been a slip.

It's not a slip. :P In games with open setups, if I forgot or am confused about some aspect of the game, I usually refer to the OP to check the game mechanics rather than my role PM so I don't have to leave the thread. I've done it both as town and scum before.

If you are a bunker, you know what you're doing. I don't understand this, especially with your criticism of my own plan early on. If you don't understand what bunkers are capable of, how in the world can you criticize a bunker's plan?

I thought Bunkers had 1 shot protects (which was why I was so adamant in not having a fixed strategy to use them - if you have very limited heals, you want to make them count, which means you want to "snipe" mafia kills, not waste them on trying to mechanically lock the game down). Then Long Con said "we have 4 shots" in #34, I checked the OP and realized I was mistaken, and corrected myself. At the time I criticized your plan, I was under the impression we only had one shot (although I still think it's not correct now that I know we have 4).

is dizzy = dyslexicon?

hmm

I really really wish I had a one shot day investigate so I could sort epi once and for all

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:04 pm I gotta admit, I much prefer hunting for scum the good old fashioned way than mechanical play, every damn time.

normally yes but I feel like I need a hefty amount of experience with epi to be able to tell if his play up til now is indicative of town or scum

nutella is the sole determinant of who gets killed by town

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:10 pm We love Alison! Stop creating drama MacAlien

thanks dunya <3

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:18 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:05 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:04 pm I gotta admit, I much prefer hunting for scum the good old fashioned way than mechanical play, every damn time.

normally yes but I feel like I need a hefty amount of experience with epi to be able to tell if his play up til now is indicative of town or scum

But that's not your task, is it? That's nutella's burden.

I don't see any reason you are a civilian. You are acting like you're my judge. You're not. nutella is. And she has the requisite experience with me that you bemoan lacking.

The job of every townie in this game is to try to solve the game, scumhunt and convince nutella that their reads are correct or at the very least ensure that the things they noticed and picked up are also noticed and picked up by her. The idea that townies should not "be a judge" and just sit idly by and wait for nutella to solve the game for them because she is confirmed town is absurd. You know this, because you yourself were trying to solve the game and explain why you suspected me of being a wolf.

I think I understand what Epi is trying to do here and if my theory is correct he's town

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:32 pm That's fine. Operating as normal is fine.

There is no normal between Alison and me. We have no history.

"I feel like I need a hefty amount of experience with epi to be able to tell if his play up til now is indicative of town or scum"

This is useless. Alison is not going GET ANY amount of experience with me to say whether I'm good or bad outside of this thread. The "I feel like I need" is more important. It's a way of admitting she doesn't and can't know shit about me but wants to have an avenue to call me bad anyway. It's horseshit.

The reason I made that remark was to say "I can't sort epi right now because I need experience that I obviously can't get". I have a theory about what you're doing/what your alignment is, but with regards to the behavior I was looking at earlier, I can't really say whether it's town or scum without knowing more about your meta. Claiming that you find it difficult to sort a certain player isn't a way to call them scum at all - it's just saying, "here's what I've observed, here's what I think about those observations, and here is which observations I can't make a decision on because I don't have the necessary information".

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:35 pm How do you go from this

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:05 pm normally yes but I feel like I need a hefty amount of experience with epi to be able to tell if his play up til now is indicative of town or scum

to this?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:29 pm I think I understand what Epi is trying to do here and if my theory is correct he's town

Because I came up with new ideas/theories between those posts?

I'm going to wait a bit to let others chime in on this before revealing my theory, but I'll tell you my theory before EoD and you can confirm if it's right or wrong.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:39 pm Side note: I love how calm Alison remains through our this poop flinging. She can handle an Epi.

I used to play mafia on Flow. Poop flinging is a way of life there.

MacDougall's posting has rapidly moved past the point of "this is my playstyle" and onto "I am caught scum intentionally causing as much chaos and disruption as humanly possible with lolcatty and nonsensical posts"

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:55 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:53 pm Good night Epi

Funny how me and epi are going to bed at the same time but 6hrs apart.

Dunya: Be wolfy
Epi: You're mafia
Dunya: Oh sugar beer come cuddle me bb

Mafia

nobody throws out reads that rapidly and that confidently unless they're making them up - you aren't even taking time to read the posts you're quoting or read people's posts other than dunya and epi's

moving dunya to the top of my town pile for the initial drago callout that caused the slot to spiral this badly. Unless dunya is like the most eager busser of all time I have a really hard time seeing that as coming from anything but town

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:56 pm MacDougall's posting has rapidly moved past the point of "this is my playstyle" and onto "I am caught scum intentionally causing as much chaos and disruption as humanly possible with lolcatty and nonsensical posts"

I think you'll find that this post explains MacDougall's reads perfectly

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:29 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm Am currently at the top of page 4. My townpile is tutuu and nanook and my scumpile is nobody.

Can you talk about your Nanook read?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:16 pmdyslexicon is scum with drago for this post

That's creative.
Also, I'm town, and you've played with me before. =)

Nanook read - this is 50% tonal (good opener, engaged with people about mechanics in a way that felt open & honest, just generally putting themselves in the thread in a way that doesn't feel forced or agenda-pushy) and 50% content (engaged with multiple different people, strongly denied a derpclear). #82 was a post I liked. You don't often see scum telling other people to "project town" because they want other players to put in less effort and get read as a sketchball, not try hard, effortpost and look supertown.

Dyslexicon read - for context, it's page 5, you put down 7 relatively strong townreads and then 1 (tonally confident) scumread on Dragomir.

1) It's rare to have 7 townreads so early in the game. People's posts near the beginning of the game trend a lot more towards null stuff - "hi everyone"s, jokes and fluff, throwing around weak "maybe X is town/scum" based on meta or tone. Is it possible to look at 7 separate people and go "based on their early game posts, I think all of these people are likely to be town"? Yes, but it's pretty damn rare and smacks of buddying. The timing is also pretty sketchy because it came down right after the laser gun holder put you at their bottom of her list, giving you an incentive to try to earn some immediate towncred. You literally townread everyone who had more than like 0 or 1-2 posts, with the sole exception of...

2) Dragomir. Let's take a look at the four points of interaction you had with Dragomir before the readslist came out.

a) [in response to Dragomir's post #40] "scummy"

For context, post 40 was Dragomir's first post in the game, saying hello and that he'll be back in the morning. That isn't scum. It isn't town either. It's as close to null as I can imagine a post being. It doesn't even have much of a tone to read into. Why single that out for being scummy without any explanation?

b) [in response to Dragomir's post #78] "Why? I feel like wrapping my head around the strategy is what interests me the most right now, since there's several pretty simple ways to lose this game if we go about it the wrong way. Is it not interesting to you?"

#78 is a post that could actually be considered to be scummy, since Dragomir is intentionally refusing to try to engage with the setup meechanics and try to contribute to building a better protection scheme for town. I wouldn't read it as scummy personally since I know a few players who switch their brain off when detailed setup/mechanic discussion comes into play, but it's a plausible reason to try to read Dragomir as scummy. That's not what you do though. You respond with a probing question that's sort of neutral-ish. It's not particularly accusatory, it's not particularly supportive, it just wants to find out more about Dragomir's thoughts.

c) [in response to Dragomir's post #170] "Purple parts are scummy to me. It reads like you don't think the reasoning is valid like you're suspected for wrong reasons rather than the suspicion being wrong. Also, using Dunya's name just feels slimy. Like you're touching her shoulder and leaning forward but like in a scummy way. =p"

Of your three interactions with Dragomir, this is the one I find most genuine. It's a fair point, and it's believable that a towni would find this scummy and push Dragomir into the scumpool based off it.

d) [in response to dunya's post #162] "Also, I think if Drag is scum it's likelier that he TMIed Carrot as town when he challenged your scum read on her."

Dragomir's challenge of dunya's scum read is located in post #110. dunya voices suspicion of Carot for not gamesolving in her first post, and Dragomir says "Do you expect players to come right off the bat with game solving in their entry post?". This isn't TMI (although funnily enough, I'm going to argue that you and Dragomir are scum together because you TMI'd him). TMI is a type of scumslip whereby you have no reason to believe that someone is scum/town but somehow "know" that they're of that alignment, because you're scum and know everyone's alignments. That isn't what Dragomir is doing though. He's not arguing that Carot is one alignment or another - he's engaging with dunya's post and pointing out a flaw in the logic. Whether or not Carot is scum has no bearing on whether or not town players are expected to come out of the gate with game solving in their entry post. So this read doesn't make any sense to me.

My conclusion is that there's a suspicious gap in your attack on Dragomir. You take a null post and you leap straight to "this is scummy". You take an attack on dunya's logic and leap straight to "Dragomir has knowledge he shouldn't be having as a town member". What this sounds like to me is that you had a conclusion in mind - "I want to attack Dragomir" - and started combing through posts and making up reasons to scumread him rather than having those reads organically develop. That is scummy behavior, and points to either you trying really hard to get town!Dragomir mislynched or you trying to make up a reason to scumread scum!Dragomir early on so that you can point to it later as evidence that you suspected Dragomir all along to get towncred. I suspect it's the latter, because it's more natural for you to just wait for a townie to say something dumb (like I did) and then leap on them (which you did to me) rather than try to shoehorn some reasoning as to why a townie should die. The Dragomir slot going completely off the rails later on strengthens my scumread on them and in turn, my theory that you were bussing Dragomir.

Oh, and this part of the Dragomir scumread:

Also Dunya is never wrong, and if she is it's her fault and not mine.

Looks a lot like buddying when you consider what I've pointed out above, that the 7 green reads look super sketchy and like an attempt at currying favor with the town when under pressure from nutella's read list.

tl;dr: Your case against Dragomir was inconsistent, logically unsound and forced, like you were trying to force it to happen or make something up. The rest of your readslist smacks of trying to buddy up to other players.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:15 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:56 pm MacDougall's posting has rapidly moved past the point of "this is my playstyle" and onto "I am caught scum intentionally causing as much chaos and disruption as humanly possible with lolcatty and nonsensical posts"

Interestingly, I think if Mac is scum, you're likely to be scum too. Both because you just assume Mac is caught, also because you made it a point to link me to Mac. This is unnecessary harsh towards Mac, which is more likely s/s interaction. Or else you're just kind of harsh, cause afaic, Mac is making content, whether or not you agree with it.

"MacDougall's posting reeks of caught scum" =/= "I assume/know MacDougall is caught scum", in the same way that "X's posts are scummy" =/= "I assume/know X is scum". Do not misrepresent my posts.

I'm harsh towards Mac because I had that huge ass post earlier about how you made it seem like you two were wolves together, and then Mac responds by shitting up the thread with a flurry of nonsensical, vague, unexplained, gish-gallopy posts that seem designed to make the thread as unreadable as humanly possible. The posts don't make sense, which is why I said they're lolcatting. Accusing people at random of being scum, mindmelding with people who have the exact opposite of the reads he has, tossing out random ideas backed by 0 logic is behavior that should rightfully be treated harshly. nutella was pretty harsh towards Mac too iirc - do you think she's scum too?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine

There was a second part of my case regarding why Dyslexicon's case against Dragomir feels forced and inconsistent. Even if you don't agree with the first bit, what about the second?

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:42 am ok so the dumb townread on alison is that she goes from

No read on nanook -> "tutuu idk why r u townreading nanook for that" -> "i, alison townread nanook" with no explanation

So in my mind if she was scum she would be more cosncious of how she comes off itt and would not make such inconsistnecies

So i thimk shes town cuz she didnt keep up us up to date cuz if shes town she was like doing her thing u know

also im not reading that wall sry alison life is too short

I put a tl;dr at the end specifically for people who don't have time or inclination to read walls

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:56 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:48 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:39 am Idk Alison I semi-regularly try to have 5+ townreads within 24ish hours when I’m trying to play a certain way, so

Some people are just comfortable flinging reads around and seeing what sticks, that’s fine

There was a second part of my case regarding why Dyslexicon's case against Dragomir feels forced and inconsistent. Even if you don't agree with the first bit, what about the second?

I don’t think it’s meaningful but I also didn’t see the need to say that. Sorry.

Why don't you think it's meaningful?

for the record I really hate the little "this is a town tell for me" "I would never bus d0" stuff because it feels manipulative and I know a lot of people won't bother doing the work of checking up on your meta background to see if it's true. I'm going to actually do the work and check up on your meta and see if those claims are legitimate. Do you have any games you want to show me, or do you just want to direct me to your MafiaUniverse profile and let me read all your games there?

basically all your defenses of your behavior are "it's not in my meta to do that as scum" so you can consider #574 a general response to your defense post

if you have game links, post them so I can see them, else I'll just trawl through your MU profile

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh

There's a reason I didn't engage much with the latest post. Either the meta read turns up clean, in which case I was wrong, or the meta read turns up dirty, in which case I'll have irrefutable evidence that Dyslexicon is scum. I don't think it's productive to get drawn into an argument about misrepresentation or whatever.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:15 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:11 am This interaction seems like it’s quickly deteriorating past the point of usefulness tbh

There's a reason I didn't engage much with the latest post. Either the meta read turns up clean, in which case I was wrong, or the meta read turns up dirty, in which case I'll have irrefutable evidence that Dyslexicon is scum. I don't think it's productive to get drawn into an argument about misrepresentation or whatever.

Lol, you are really too much xD You'll never have irrefutable evidence that I'm scum cause I'm fucking town lol. We are clearly very different is my conclusion from this.

I'll get some links from here because I'm nice. But I really don't have the time fml

From a meme about the different types of mafia players.

Meta trawl, most recent to least recent. I'm not counting the game we played together, because that one hasn't ended yet so it would be illegal to talk about it.
S7 G5 - May 2020 (Town)
Girl Genius - July 2019 (Town, then Mafia)
ITA Death Mash - July 2019 (Town)
Anonymous Petrology - July 2019 (Mafia)
Mafia Universe Anniversary 2019 - June 2019 (Mafia)
Fruits and Vegetables - June 2017 (Town)
S3 G2 - May 2016 (Town)
The Disney Game - August 2015 (Town)

Needless to say, it would be impractical at best to read through all of these games, so I'm just going to ISO Dyslexicon with an eye on two things: 1) do they have a tendency to throw around a lot of townreads very early on in the game as town like they claim they do and 2) do they have a tendency to avoid bussing D1/D2 as scum like they claim they do.

re: "5 year old meta GOAT" - I agree the later games are less worthwhile but the 2020/2019 games are well worth analyzing, and there might be some stuff they said back in 2015 that may indicate a general philosophy on mafia which may be game-relevant or which may still apply. At any rate I'd weigh the stuff in 2015 much less strongly but there's no harm in taking a look.

S7 G5 (Town) - Dyslexicon opens the game by attacking Okosan before giving a single townread - "We should probably just speed lynch Okosan and get it done with." Tone is confident, little to no reason given and may well be a stretch, which is consistent with their attack on Dragomir at least. "I just highly disagree [with the opinion that one should hide their townreads]. Having a strong town core and a PoE is usually what wins town games at my home site." This is consistent with throwing around a bunch of townreads, sorta, and is very consistent with the "I want people to be town and I look out for them being town" attitude they claim to have. "Reading up on what's happened before saying hi. Classic scum move." is at least consistent with the "attacks player strongly for completely null stuff" I had an issue with earlier. "Here's how, as I see it: As town it's important to find other town for, particularly, two reasons." - consistent with "I want people to be town and I look out for them being town". First reads list on page 10 - 4 townreads, 5 nulls, 4 scumreads.

Conclusion: + points for every meta claim except "having a lot of townreads is a town tell for me".

Girl Genius 1.0 (Town) - "You may now enjoy a lock town status from D0... Will the bad guys be annoyed that town finds each other this early? Yes" - + points for basically every meta claim, from drawing conclusions based on null stuff, to throwing townreads around extremely freely, to trying to townhunt hard and establish a towncore really quickly. "Nova actually posting, and that's not a read. sig says weird stuff, and that's not a read. Gut on Owner and Nut for town for almost no reason. Think I liked some of Tony's posts." - + points for being consistent with meta claims. "I'll hand out all the town cred I feel like, thanks!" - this on Day 0. Consistent with throwing around a ton of townreads early on. First reads list, 10 pages in: 3 town, 4 null but okay, 3 null but suspicious, 2 scum. I guess if we count "null but okay" as being roughly equivalent to "sorta town", we can count this as 7 townreads really early on in the game.

Conclusion: + points for every meta claim.

Girl Genius 2.0 (Mafia) - Partners were juliets, Michelle, sabie and sig. "Lol. Maybe juliets is town or at least not mafia, think mafia would be aware of who's lynched and not" - defends teammate. "Also don't like this. "Red checked? I like her posts." What did you like about them?" and "Oh ok. I didn't like Michelle assuming red check on Luna, but then also saying she liked her posts though. What do you think about that?" - attacks teammate. Pushes a couple of PoEs with teammates in them later on - attacks teammate. The attacks were there and angled suspicion at teammates, but wasn't nearly as pointed as their attack on Dragomir. I guess it's a wash? "And from experience it's kind of dangerous to point to things as "slips" cause a lot of the time I've seen it to turn out town that just makes weird jumps or associations." - this comes from mafia so I can't be sure how sincere it is, but it is amusing that they're saying basically the same thing at least.

Conclusion: not really sure what to make of this one. The fact that it's day 4 and not day 0/1 would probably color their opinions on bussing also. I'm putting this down as largely a wash.

ITA Death Mash (Town) - Very little content in general. "And that is pretty much the only read I have right now of people still alive." - only one read on Day 2, which doesn't fit with the "I like to throw a lot of reads around and see what sticks/I always have a lot of townreads as town". But I'm not comfortable drawing too many conclusions from this because they literally have 27 posts in the whole game.

Conclusion: sample size is too small. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to draw an inference one way or another, it's a slight minus because of the lack of throwing reads around.

Anonymous Petrology (Mafia) - literally 8 posts in the entire game, with minimal content spread across all of them. Technically they didn't bus their teammates like they said, but, well, 8 posts.

Conclusion: sample size is too small.

Mafia Universe Anniversary 2019 (Mafia) - Teammates are BATMAN, Bunny, Egix, ladd, Tea, Professor Plum, JMurder3, Litten, Eragon, bopolis, RedFlavor, dobby, sheepsaysmeep, baudib1, Enoch Kaine, TehBankertin, Riki. Was a humongous game (over a hundred players), so will take that into account when looking at meta stuff. Literally 0 attacks or votes on any teammates in the entirety of their ISO. Actively defends Bunny.

Conclusion: strongly supports the idea that Dyslexicon doesn't often bus teammates as scum.

Fruits and Vegetables (Town) - Rapid-fired 7 reads on post #103, a lot of them based on one or two posts. 2 townreads, 3 nullreads, 2 scumreads. "I'm almost certain that Quick is town. He does not come into the game and call me mafia first thing as scum, he just don't. So if I flip at a point that is my hard read on Quick just based on that. Sue me." - + points to finding it really easy to read people as town, I guess.

Conclusion: Is willing to make lots of early game reads based on one or two posts or otherwise really small amounts of stuff. + points for that meta claim, I suppose.

S3 G2 (Town) - "Cause if I was scum I'd post something like that to seem like careless town." The "that" they were referring to was someone correcting a typo, which I guess is evidence that they're willing to read people as scum for really nullish posts. Can't find anything else for or against their meta claims in the early pages of this game.

Conclusion: + points towards the idea that they're willing to make logical leaps to read someone as town.

The Disney Game (Town) - 7 posts total, not reading this since I don't think I can get any meaningful information out of a 7 post ISO in 2015.