The Syndicate

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:32 pm
Elohcin:
I still think the D1 sus of her was overblown at best and disingenuous at worst. I hope to source the origin of her train through these ISO's. She was sus of Vivax 1.0 and Sloonei. She continued to be sus of Sloonei D2, and there is the supposed townslip. Despite Sloonei sus, she turns her attention and vote to LoRab for her unhelpfulness and tone. Now she is OT Green for the day. @Elohcin What is the state of your Sloonei suspicion? I still feel good about her. Maybe her vote for LoRab could be read as advantageous, but I haven't seen the 'agreeable tell' like I think I remember.

Votes: Sloonei D1, LoRab D2

There's that word again

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:14 pm Civ-Leans:

-Eloh
-Golden
-Scotty
-Sloonei

I still feel like the suspicion of Eloh was overblown on D1. There was some speculation later about a townslip but I have to read back more for that. The other three all sound so darn supatown but I have to confess that I can't keep them straight in my head when reading the thread. ISO's will help. I don't know if it's a processing issue on my brain's part, but all their super-sleuthing voices run together in my head. It is frustrating and I don't know how to break myself of it. It happens in just about every game that I play- voices just merge in my head and I struggle to distinguish them as individuals. ISO'ing these folks is no picnic either, as they have posted an outsized share of the game thread. I still maintain that there's bound to be a baddie among the most talkative players. There almost always is. Otherwise the talkative players would eventually harmonize and the poe becomes simpler. Maybe there's more to distinguish them since this morning.

More irony at this point, the final three all in G-Man's civ leans. I've highlighted the portion that sticks out to me.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:03 pm Vanishing for most of the phase was not my intention. Here is a short version of what I have so far:

Several tiers based on participation-

Big Talk- Scotty, Sloonei, Golden coward, DH- I would be shocked if there wasn’t a baddie in that group. Maybe two, but lots of productive chatter for the most part.

Llama in a tier of his own, but I still feel loose llama is good llama.

VivAxe or Viv2.0, Eloh, Michelle, Quin- mixed bag here. Eloh was sussed yesterday, Viv2.0 is a reset and still murky on D1 NAA read, Michelle feels most ambiguous (her posts didn’t make any impression on me), and same goes for Quin. These folks are at radar-level. I need to ISO to see if I detected a skimmer.

Kate, sig, Bea, Wilgy- 1/2 seem off the table today and the sig is less memorable that Wilgy licking everything in sight. Under the radar crew- also need ISOs to find manufactured content.


G-Man, LoRab, DF- low posters. Not ideal to find myself in that camp that must be ‘dealt with’ before too long. I saw points about LR’s evasiveness but I’m not exactly one to harp on that without being a hypocrite just yet. DF… just needs to show up for the weekend and get some content before he becomes an afterthought to everything happening in the present.

I will try to speed read the day and make a vote after I get back from wife’s birthday dinner.

Too many null reads for me right now- not a good look. Need to get my head back in the game and sort out some townclears to help my poe.

This is a fascinating post by this point.

Either Sloonei is bad and he has a baddie in that tier of high posters...

Or he bunched them all together.

And being the data analyst that he is, I could absolutely see G-Man assuming that people would read into these posts that 'baddies like to split their teammates up' and believing he was giving them cover by putting them all together. That's totally a G-Man gambit I buy.

I actually love it. This is clever play.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:02 pm [VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

So many little pings going off, but lacking the theory of mind as a civ and tying yourself up in ‘that’s why you’re bad, actually that makes you civ’ logic is enough for a vote.

I seem to recall baddie Eloh being guilty of being too agreeable. I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing here, coward.

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:21 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:11 pm I seem to recall baddie Eloh being guilty of being too agreeable. I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing here, coward.

Eloh jumped off a sig suspicion after a couple of people town read him. I’m not sure what you’re seeing, but I would characterise Eloh’s game so far as agreeable.

G-Man's first mention of Elo, I think, criticising me for voting for elo (which developed into G-Man voting for me), is ironic looking back given his decsription of Elo's mafia game is what I felt like I was seeing.

I already know what G-Man thinks of sloonei, don't need to revisit it. My gut with that stuff was always that G-Man had no high poster teammates and that he really wanted the thread to focus on high rather than low posters, and in that sense I've always felt as though G-Man provides a solid clear for sloonei.

Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:58 am Sloonei looks like he's posting a single read from time to time to see what happens.
It may be a towny way to test people.
Maybe is scum behaviour of throwing mud of the wall to see what sticks.
Gut says it's the first one, I hope I am right

There's not a tonne of Sloonei content in Michelle's iso either, but what there is feels like this quote above... which feels more like gentle handling than anything to me.

But now I really feel like I'm confirmation bias land... I'm beginning to see it as hard for me to vote anything but one sway.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:01 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:55 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:54 pm I was doing the same thing Scotty, now i can go to sleep.

If anyone wants to ask me something I am still here for a while

Who would you be voting if there were no votes on the poll?

My vote is there not because it was a wagon.
My Poe is in Quin/Svs/DF/Golden/Vivax (not ordered) but if the wagon on Lorab was made to save Quin/Svs then one of them is bad for sure

Michelle's Elo suspicion also evaporates. I do not think I can find Michelle mentioning Elo at all, not even as a town read. She has this PoE which omits Elo, which is basically the closest I can find to a town read from that point.

She doesn't deeply interact with sloonei either.

Interestingly in this PoE, she says 'if Lorab wagon was to save Quin one of them is bad'. This is after G-Man has already flipped bad.

Sloonei, DFaraday, Elohcin, Scotty, Quin, G-Man

Michelle's entire team, other than Michelle, was on the LoRab wagon. But she includes Quin here (this was his lynch day) along with four civs as her PoE, two of whom were not on the LoRab wagon.

It's annoying because this could apply the same way to both of you!

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:18 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:29 am Y'all should know to give me a little leeway before suspecting me, especially when I've been away for so many years. Did you forget that I only married into intelligence? Though I overthink and internalize everything IRL, I'm ultimately a doer and not a thinker. That is why Epi and I mesh so well together.

leeway
noun
1.
the amount of freedom to move or act that is available.

Do I understand coorect, you ask for a day 1 pass here?

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:29 pm I think Dharma and Wilgy are villagers
I liked Scotty asking about the reason of receiving a town read

I have mixed feelings about Eloh I think they can go either way




I am sorry if I make any gender mistake, for players I don't know I will use they but I would appreciate help here.eta infos would be great!

Also I wish to know everyone's time zone.
I live in East Europe and for me is 10:30 pm now

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:55 pm [VOTE: Eloh] aubergine

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:05 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:54 pm There would be nothing more ‘classic mafia’ than DF being D1 lynched for low posting.

Hopefully they posts and we can make a read because lynching a low poster at random is a coin flip.

Michelle's day one is far less damning for elo than Quin's, but it also isn't *great*.

Unlike Quin, Michelle never backed herself in to a corner to vote Elo. So her vote didn't need to be needlessly bussing her teammate.

However, if I'm reading the vote count correctly that Michelle posted only just before her vote, Eloh only had one vote when Michelle voted for her. Scotty and Sloonei had two, and the end of day hadn't developed. Sloonei moved to 4 before Eloh went to three. Michelle could have felt trapped and like jumping off Elo would be even worse. So now I see reasonable w!eloh aligned reasons for why Quin and Michelle could end up on that wagon.

For me the worst thing about this is that Michelle gives the same reason for suspecting Elo as quin did - that she mentioned IRL stuff.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:45 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:25 am Second @Quin why did you vote Eloh? You apparently suspected her day one (although all that Scotty/Elo stuff felt manufactured even then to me), but you said you didn't want to vote her but watch her, then voted her anyway, then basically never mentioned her again until your vote on day 4.

Eloh looked like an unengaged scum on Day 1. I would have liked to let her live if I wasn't also in danger that day. That changed, and she looked good in the her LoRab content so I changed my read.

Then her bea vote stank in comparison, where she just dumped it without intent to engage.

I noticed this at the time. I thought about it as Quin trying to avoid looking bad for being on the bea vote. Because I presumed a town slip, I never thought about it through the lens of 'why Elo'.

This is a bad reason for 'why elo'. There was general consensus on bea (and I'd maintain the bea lynch was a 'good lynch', it was just wrong), and singling out elo in that bunch feels weird to me.

And that's it. He doesn't go back to Elo on day 5, he just tried to no u me for getting traction on his lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quin down, and I feel substantially worse about elo in that comparison.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:53 pm [VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

Quin's next mention of Eloh is this vote post on day 4, where he remained when bea got lynched.

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:54 pm FYI it took two days of being on the chopping block for Sloonei to ask literally anything of me.

If this is distancing it's weird distancing.

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:35 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:26 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:17 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:30 pm I'm not sure if Quin is on LoraB for the same reasons as Scotty.

Spoiler: show

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:08 am

Spoiler: show

LoRab wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:45 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:07 pm

oh thank Cthulhu I can finally role check you tonite

Did you just role claim a mafia role?

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:52 am

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:25 am [VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

For snipey pop-in

If pointing out a strange post makes me seem suspish to you, I’m ok with that.

These two posts go together. LoRab thinks this jokey scum claim from Scotty is alignment indicative (a later post clarifies this somewhat). I'm okay with that.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:02 am

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:54 am

Do you sus Scotty for that ?

Not necessarily. I want to see how he responds.

Or with secrets in civvie roles, there’s also a chance he may be looking for votes as a civ thing.

So, really, I want to see how he responds.

Follows from the above, but I am confused at the "looking for votes as a civ thing" part. Need her to explain this.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:33 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:30 pm
Hi.

Here’s my response:

Really? That’s the hill you’re leading a charge on? Yikes.

I wasn't leading a charge. I was noticing a weirdness. But ok.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:38 pm
Lorab did indeed pop in, as Vivax pointed out, just to call attention to my joke post. That…sure is something. She needs to offer more than that.

Obviously, I didn't read it as a joke post--to be fair, I was reading the entire day's worth of posts, so I likely missed tone. And I will offer more--as I said in the sign ups, I was away for a long weekend, so didn't have much time to get into the game. And yesterday was traveling back home yesterday. As I'm sure you remember, you'll get plenty more from me.

I'm going to assume that you are a civ, and that you are reading me as bad because you are not. But, keeping in mind that it could be a switcheroo.

Her conclusion from all this is that he's town, because scum reading LoRab in this game is a thing civilians do. But also, Scotty could be scum because 'switcheroo'. Do you think you deserve to be scum read, LoRab? I do.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:47 pm I am not going to, but tempted to vote axehole, because he doesn’t seem to honor at all the way other people play, and not adapting to the way many of us are used to. Which is frustrating, and I’m trying not to let me suspect him because I’m annoyed. Similar with VIVA.

This post may as well have not been made. It has nothing to do with the game.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:52 pm Voting Bea.

[VOTE: Bea] aubergine

I don’t suspect her much, but I don’t have a read on her yet. And I want her to come out and play more.

Give me a better reason than this for why you voted bea, please. The last two posts set you up to look like you were making the most inoffensive vote possible.

LoRab wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:29 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:02 pm
@LoRab got any reads yet?

I don’t like how quiet it is. Suggests the mafia are under no real pressure at all. The game is coasting.

Not really. I’m not thinking about bea and kate until tomorrow. And really wanting to know what happened to bea. I have more players I feel good about than am suspish of. Which makes sense in terms of numbers, but is annoying. Not wanting to name who I feel goosed about because don’t want to help mafia. And not convinced the game secrets don’t contain weirdness that makes the allegiances less obvious than they seem.

Revising what I said before. I misremembered this post as LoRab talking about not wanting to explain her town reads, which I thought was a bad look because she lacked the clout needed for scum to want to react to them. Now reading it again, that's all because Scotty specified town reads in his ISO. What a nugget. I'm not concerned if she's holding back on her scum reads.

I still have absolutely no idea what is going on in LoRab's head besides "Scotty could be either good or bad".

Not repeating Scotty's ISO in here, I agree with all of it. You said you have more time, so I'd appreciate you using it to respond to this, and provide reads. [VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:46 pm I’m gonna identify a pattern for you.

LoRab wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:23 am Popping in. I’ll be driving most of the day, and so I can do so safely, will not be posting and driving. But I will try to check in on stops.

Note well use adverb above, as well as in this sentence.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:33 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:30 pm
Hi.

Here’s my response:

Really? That’s the hill you’re leading a charge on? Yikes.

I wasn't leading a charge. I was noticing a weirdness. But ok.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:38 pm
Lorab did indeed pop in, as Vivax pointed out, just to call attention to my joke post. That…sure is something. She needs to offer more than that.

Obviously, I didn't read it as a joke post--to be fair, I was reading the entire day's worth of posts, so I likely missed tone. And I will offer more--as I said in the sign ups, I was away for a long weekend, so didn't have much time to get into the game. And yesterday was traveling back home yesterday. As I'm sure you remember, you'll get plenty more from me.

I'm going to assume that you are a civ, and that you are reading me as bad because you are not. But, keeping in mind that it could be a switcheroo.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:38 pm Home from work. Just finished reading through the rest of day. And don’t worry—I’m going to vote. There’s over 20 minutes left. Why rush?

LoRab wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:02 pm I'm here!! Went to bed before the results posted last night (because I'm an old person). RIPIYWG (nd you probably were), Splints. (and yes, I know that all of the night victims are likely civ, but I make no assumptions--assumptions are dangerous in this game). And sorry that this post is kind of all over the place.

Splints is a good player, and so I can see why she'd be a N1 target for mafia. Especially if one of the players is someone whom she historically has been able to read. Now I need to remember who that could be. And, mafia knows that anyone not on their team is civ, so is a good target no matter what.

And I should have a normal-er schedule now, so can post more regularly. And maybe actually get reads on people.

Also, I swear that I totally submitted a song for the contest, but now that message seems to have disappeared, and it's super weird. And I'm curious where it went to.

Looking at the visible night results, Kate was Greened and Bea was somethinged. Not knowing what role/circumstance had that effect on Bea, hard to say if that's good or bad. I disagree with whomever said it was a result of the map poll--since she wasn't the only Canada voter, but seems to be the only one whose posts have been altered. And she even said (I think?) that it wasn't Vompatti.

I have more thoughts and I'll remember them later.

LoRab wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:29 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:02 pm
@LoRab got any reads yet?

I don’t like how quiet it is. Suggests the mafia are under no real pressure at all. The game is coasting.

Not really. I’m not thinking about bea and kate until tomorrow. And really wanting to know what happened to bea. I have more players I feel good about than am suspish of. Which makes sense in terms of numbers, but is annoying. Not wanting to name who I feel goosed about because don’t want to help mafia. And not convinced the game secrets don’t contain weirdness that makes the allegiances less obvious than they seem.

Anyone else noticing the pattern?

Spoiler: show

It’s full of excuses.

Now I want to preface that I know she has outlined her time constraints. Everyone has a life outside the game. But the excuses are starting to add up and there’s nothing to show with it. All of her posts have been real nothing burgers and she’s obviously reading along because she’s made multiple comments like “did he just claim mafia” and “it’s weird that JJJ is voting” and yet “I have no reads” or “I have town reads but don’t want to give the mafia any ideas”

I expect more…something substantive at this point.

What do you have to say about Scotty and my ISO's of LoRab?

I would like to know why you used him as your lynchpin for your LoraB vote. His ISO is too vast for you to say you agree with all of it imho.

I have written why I think he‘s town already.

Wouldn‘t say my vote is supposed to be a high confidence vote. I think that creating certain blocks in the VC can be beneficial.

Your EoD was sort of cheeky I guess and I don‘t find your rationale for voting with Scotty that convincing for now

His ISO of multiple posts came to the single conclusion that LoRab is making excuses for her lack of engagement. Not vast. I agreed with it and said the exact same thing was happening in Eloh's Day 1, who I am significantly more satisfied with her Day 2, btw.

LoRab is female btw, if you were referring to her second line.

As I suspected, Elo just evaporated from Quin's suspicion list on day 2 with nothing more than this offhand comment.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:41 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:54 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:49 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:48 am Quin has a similar style to me.

I was widely misread as a suspect yesterday.

Quin seems to be widely suspected today.

How do you feel about DH?

I have thoughts about DH. But I will have to express them more tomorrow when I’m not typing away on my phone in the dark while my wife tries to sleep

He has not ruffled my feathers yet. I admittedly have not taken any time to focus on any players in particular this game. Nearly all of my activity has been sitting around and engaging with the thread in real time.

I expect to fix that tomorrow afternoon.

I would like to see how your read of me progresses as you catch up. It doesn't seem like you've been invested in what others are saying about me and you've been reading me based on tone instead. That doesn't fly with me knowing I could have been lynched yesterday and was one of two counter wagons to your own. Town Sloonei is better than a gut-fuelled self pres vote.

This is a bizarre post and I don't understand it much at all. This is the first thing I've found in Quin's iso which gives me 'could be distancing from Sloonei' vibes.

Then Quin votes for Dharmahelper, before eventually settling on Elo

My day 1 read:

Quin was all over Elo (something I knew), but I feel like a dumbass for not going back and reading this sooner/paying more attention. Every part of his suspicion feels like an excuse to vote Scotty and his vote for Elo almost feels thread-forced and like something he backed himself in to. This alleviates one of my central thoughts for why Elo is a civ - that the day one wagon was awfully dangerous.

On the other hand, Quin barely interacted with Sloonei, other than a slightly awkward response to a town read. In my memory that interaction was more two-sided.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:15 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:09 pm Alright, I'm here! It may take me a bit to get back into the groove of things, not that I ever had a really good groove with mafia. But, looking forward to some old-time fun!

Eloh's first post has an excuse in it.

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:26 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:55 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:49 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:31 am Votes should be expressed in the thread though, like this:
[VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

Let the little man whisper!

I will HAPPILY use an adverb, but it may take me a while to get used to the vote tag thing. Have patience.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:48 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:37 pm Right, so Sig is obviously mafia, right?

I would say it is something to consider.

I'm not a fan of changing votes. I like to take the day to interact and observe without being hasty.

Sig says votes are changeable. I don't see how he could have known this before voting. I can only find him sus right away as his hasty vote would most likely land on a civ.

Yeah if only there were a role that explicitly stated (hey look guys, adverb. I'm multitasking!) that votes were changeable.

Maybe Eloh missed that part, though. I guess if it were an indie role or a mafia role, and Eloh were a civ and had no reason to read up on the mafia/indie sides of things, that could be it.

But if that role were not an indie or mafia role, and Eloh were a mafia or an indie and would have reason to be more focused on that side of the board, I could see a world where Eloh might forgo reading up on the civ side of things.

So, rule number 5 says the "votes are changeable. MAYBE." Then, I did read the roles including Moveable Votes, but didn't understand it. I was looking at it like a RULE and not a ROLE, probably b/c I had been in the car all day traveling. But I just had a lightbulb moment looking back at it now after a good night's sleep! So, I definitely get it now.

I no longer suspect sig atm. We shall see what's to come.

methinks the baker might be baking up some sugar-free excuses here

All the initial post told me is that Eloh didn't read the roles thoroughly before posting. What does Eloh having not reading the roles thoroughly tell you about her alignment? Hopefully this is a rhetorical question.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:23 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:19 pm In all seriousness, this Day 1 is going to be bizarre because I’m going to feel dirty eliminating a player that has made a triumphant return after a lengthy break only to be yeeted early.

I suppose I can take solace in the fact that rezz’s are in the game. But for day 1? It just feelsbadman.jpg

I guess we could always all just vote for dog lol

"yeet" and "yeeted" are not allowed in old school mafia games. Silly Scotty, yeets are for kids.

I think you mean Yeezys.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:29 am Y'all should know to give me a little leeway before suspecting me, especially when I've been away for so many years. Did you forget that I only married into intelligence? Though I overthink and internalize everything IRL, I'm ultimately a doer and not a thinker. That is why Epi and I mesh so well together.

I remember catching a scum Dana years ago on her first game back in ages (my first game with her, she was great). She used her time away as a crutch to excuse her inability to contribute and it just felt like she couldn't integrate herself into the thread. It could be the same thing here, but I'm happy to sit on it and let that idea progress.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:52 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:59 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am And, I'm not lying about the role thing. I didn't understand the movable votes until I reread the roles this morning after reading DH's comments. I must have more tired than I thought last night b/c everything was much clearer this morning.

That’s fair. I often overanalyze roles in my pregame analysis and make bold assumptions that can be easily disproven with the obvious information given.

I think another part of your explanation that is still not swaying me, however, is the way you’ve presented your suspicion for sig in so many words, then just as succinctly dropped your suspicion for him without offering any other reads for other players. It’s very cookie-cutter apple pie and although it doesn’t lack logical progression, it does seem to lack that extra scoop of ice cream a-la-mode

First of all, I don't remember using "so many words." Second, there was not much to go on at the time of that post. I will most likely have more reads as the day goes on. But for DAY ONE, unless someone majorly slips, any reads are kind-of a shot in the dark. If I were to make a guess, though, I imagine that day 1 mafia players act like one of the following:
a) pretty quiet (laying low)
b) kind-of silly/off-topic (distracting from gameplay), or
c) hard core readers (they obviously know who isn't a part of their own)

This is what I am looking for. So far I have my eye on Scotty for reasons of letter (b).

I get a stronger Scotty/Eloh team vibe reading Scotty's posts than the other way around. This makes me want to do a fluff count on Scotty's posts.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:50 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:12 pm

Spoiler: show

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:03 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:37 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:20 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:06 pm
Begrudgingly, sure, even though it’s only 20 posts back. I could probably flesh it out more.

It’s admittedly a pretty weak scumread, but the arguments that Elo had made agreeing with the suspicion of sig based on a mechanic that she hadn’t read, then recanting her suspicion upon learning said mechanic was rather safe. It wasn’t a slam dunk by any means. But then she reacts to my read of her with a long winded explanation that mafia will have certain qualities in D1. She lists them; then, she makes, in more or less words, an OMGUS on me using one of the bullet points “silly/off-topic (distracting from gameplay)” which is objectively a terrible statement. Sure, I’m perhaps silly as much as a pumpkin spice latte in spring, but you can still DRINK a pumpkin spice latte in spring I’m making gab, advancing gameplay. Am I not?

So you're voting for Eloh because she acted on a weak suspicion, backtracked on it nearly as soon as it was called out, and offered a "whatever sticks" explanation as to her actions?

Why is that not a slam dunk? Where is this hesitation and hedging coming from? Is she doing an OMGUS to you or are you doing an OMGUS to her?

It’s not a slam dunk because D1 reads are never slam dunks. I’m like the looney tunes when the monstars suck the power away. I need reveals to better get a sense for players.

This could very well just be a player personality that I’m reading too much into.

Though I wouldn’t call this hedging. I’m currently voting there

Maybe it's not a slam dunk bc he is scared to get it wrong. Or maybe it's not a slam dunk bc he is bad and just trying to make a semblance of a baddie read on someone to make it look like he is trying. This response looks very bad to me.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:38 pm I don’t really like the whole Elo vs Scotty thing. I do feel like Elo was a little quick to jump on sig who is an easy target, but as someone who almost never thoroughly reads the rules, I can wholeheartedly understand missing something like that. And in most cases wouldn’t it be easier for a mafia Elo to just leave that mild suspicion of sig out there instead. Scotty’s suspicion also seems quick to jump on something little.
Maybe I’ll reread it after the kids are asleep

kidS! Yay! How many now and what ages?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:14 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:52 pm [I imagine that day 1 mafia players act like one of the following:
a) pretty quiet (laying low)
b) kind-of silly/off-topic (distracting from gameplay), or
c) hard core readers (they obviously know who isn't a part of their own)

This is what I am looking for. So far I have my eye on Scotty for reasons of letter (b).

What does a Day 1 town player act like?

I think that civvie behavior on day 1 is more personalized than baddie behavior. For instance, if Blooper were here and she didn't make a single post on Day 1, I would not suspect her for it. But, if Pink were here and did not post on day 1, I think that would be something to keep an eye on. Unfortunately, there are three players here that I don't think I've ever played with, so they will probably escape a vote from me today unless something extreme happens.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:18 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:29 am Y'all should know to give me a little leeway before suspecting me, especially when I've been away for so many years. Did you forget that I only married into intelligence? Though I overthink and internalize everything IRL, I'm ultimately a doer and not a thinker. That is why Epi and I mesh so well together.

leeway
noun
1.
the amount of freedom to move or act that is available.

Do I understand coorect, you ask for a day 1 pass here?

Yes, that is correct. I am smart enough to look up the word before I post it as well If you knew me, you would know that it is classic Eloh to say five words and be suspected right out of the gate.

I am she. And I am eastern standard. 3:54pm atm.

---------------------------------
@Golden I never voted sig at all, btw. just talked about him in the thread. I don't like movable votes at all and I think Llama explained my thoughts on it very well, so I won't repeat.
---------------------------------

Vivax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:33 pm @ Michelle

Judging from my perspective I don't consider others' reads except they are my town reads. Had Eloh said they town read Scotty and Golden? Because if not, why do you think they should post more and reconsider?

It left a bad impression that Eloh claimed to have found a reason to be sus on sig but went off when a few dropped opposite conclusions. Maybe I'm expecting too much from early pages but that would have made for a fine topic to ruffle some heads early on if I were them.

This really isn't that difficult folks. I misinterpreted the roles and thought no one KNEW if votes were movable or not yet. Then, I reread the roles after getting some much needed sleep and wah-la, I understood it!

-----------------------------------
@thellama73 I don't have a civ game, remember?
-----------------------------------

“@Golden I never voted sig at all, btw. just talked about him in the thread. I don't like movable votes at all and I think Llama explained my thoughts on it very well, so I won't repeat.”
Right, you said you weren’t one to vote early, but wholly offered that sig could be bad. That was your only read at the time. Tomato/potato.

“Maybe it's not a slam dunk bc he is scared to get it wrong. Or maybe it's not a slam dunk bc he is bad and just trying to make a semblance of a baddie read on someone to make it look like he is trying. This response looks very bad to me.”
Correct that I don’t want to get it wrong. I think I tend to struggle on correct D1 reads. But a broken clock is right twice a day, eh?

If I had edged off you, would that response have looked better? I’m just continuing to get OMGUS vibes here.

@Elohcin If you could vote someone right now, who would you vote? GTH, as they’d say

I actually felt like your response was you "edging off me", so I'm confused by the question. It's like you thought, "Shoot, I really could be wrong here so I'm going to back off and say that my theory wasn't a slam dunk," after driving it hard for so many posts. You backing off is what made me question your civ status further. You may say I did the same thing with sig (flippity-flop), but really it wouldn't be true. I made a couple comments, in a tired state, about sig being sus right before going to bed. Then, when I woke up and saw comments about it, I reread the rules and roles, had a derp moment, and backed off. I really think you just need to let that go and let us move on.

I hate GTH questions and refuse to answer them.

New read, Bea is civ bc she would know when day ends if she had BTSC.

Eloh thinks that her not reading the roles is NAI and Scotty should back off. She also thinks Scotty is bad for backing off. I want to come up with a cool metaphor like Scotty does but I can't so I'm just going to say this sounds like distancing.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:54 pm EBWOP: actually...if you really were scared you were wrong, then you'd have to be civ. It's getting close to my bedtime again. I'm useless in the evening and should not play mafia at this time. This is why I work during the first half of my day. I don't know what I think anymore.

So Eloh thinks Scotty is town? Is that where we ended?

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:21 am I said I was going to figure out how Eloh and Scotty read independent of eachother and I've just finished my Eloh read and all I can think about is Scotty.

I do not understand this progression, and I don't understand how Sloonei townread Quin for it. He isos Eloh, says 'he gets a stronger team vibe from reading scotty's posts then the other way around' but two posts later 'I've just finished my elo read and all I can think about is scotty.'

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:23 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:18 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:13 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:03 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:10 pm Just started work, so I can't wallpost or anything, but here's some takes:

Scotty's insistence on the Eloh scumread feels forced. Possible distancing. sig is a good boy if true.

Axe is a zero-faith townie, reminds me of Phenon where I just shat in everyone's cereal in some weird sussy town performance.

The bea train is garbage. Looking at that in more detail tonight.

Llama needs to explain his rainbow, The bit about me, specifically.

Possible distancing, huh? So you think Elo is bad then?

Yes, in that I think you're w/w. I want to expand on my independent reads on you both when I get home.

Cool. In the meantime, vote for Elo, my partner. Then we can go from there.

Although I’m not even certain Elo is the cat in the hat for the day, so to speak

Then why do you want me to vote for her? Why are you voting for her? There's still 24 hours to wreak havoc, you know.

And then we get this.

I wasn't really expecting to see this so quickly, and there may be some confirmation bias, but Quin's first three posts about Eloh really feel like he got himself stuck in a w/w read of scotty/elo and then struggled to extract himself convincingly from that elo suspicion. I wonder if it ever comes up again past day one.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:13 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:03 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:10 pm Just started work, so I can't wallpost or anything, but here's some takes:

Scotty's insistence on the Eloh scumread feels forced. Possible distancing. sig is a good boy if true.

Axe is a zero-faith townie, reminds me of Phenon where I just shat in everyone's cereal in some weird sussy town performance.

The bea train is garbage. Looking at that in more detail tonight.

Llama needs to explain his rainbow, The bit about me, specifically.

Possible distancing, huh? So you think Elo is bad then?

Yes, in that I think you're w/w. I want to expand on my independent reads on you both when I get home.

Follows that up with a second post which is effectively 'yes, I think Eloh is bad in the specific scenario where you are both bad'.

I like doing this kind of thing as wolf... setting up a thing in advance where I can bus a teammate if needed but justify lynching a civ afterwards.

Interestingly, this is also the point at which Sloonei, you declare "Quin is town", before he does his later Scotty/Eloh analysis. What was it for you by this point?

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:10 pmScotty's insistence on the Eloh scumread feels forced. Possible distancing. sig is a good boy if true.

Quin's first mention of Elo reads more like an attempt to shade Scotty than Eloh, although Quin ends on Eloh by the end of the day.

Oh wait you sent that five hours ago. Sorry!

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:09 pm Preemptive warning that my area is getting pummeled by snow between now and saturday, so there’s a slight chance I could lose power at some point. If that happens, idk if I’ll be able to be present for the end game here, which obviously sucks hard. I don’t think that’s super likely to happen, but it’s not impossible.

I’m several miles north of the areas that are supposed to be hit the worst, and it’s not actually that cold and, for the moment, there’s no wind either. It’s just steady snowfall for 48 hours, as far as I can tell.

Are you around for the next two hours?

Eldest and wife tested positive for Covid today and my day went from a light work day to a no work day and looking after the fam, sorry Sloon and Eloh.

I have some podcast prep to do as well tonight, but I'm planning to read back each of Quin, Michelle and G-Man to look for how they handled each of you.

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:57 pm rez pleaseeeee

Ok, I have a strong lean in one direction, but my plan for today is to do some further isos including on Quin G and Michelle and build out the two wolfworlds… and figure out which is more plausible. With as much time as I’ve got. Thankfully I have more today than I had yesterday.

Aside from that, another thing which is wifom and by no means a lock but which I think whichever you is civ knows me well enough to see some wisdom in.

The FEBs tilde ability was ultimately both pretty tame and also the town's knowledge of what is said would not have altered the game for mafia in any meaningful way (they still had to be caught and lynched to trigger it).

Despite the fact someone like Scotty says 'no civ points for solving these', I think some people can't help but give stuff like that some townie vibes. I absolutely would have solved that baddie ability publicly if I knew what it said. I tried really hard for several days. I just could not come up with the word 'half'.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:13 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:34 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:11 pm Grr. Wes pleyong e gemi woth thi femoly end wes tutelly dostrectid. O medi ot tu my cumpatir jast e sicund tuu leti tu vuti. Bat, O wuald hevi vutid vovex. Cuald Guldin bi bed? O cennut biloivi thisi beddois eri tekong as duwn!

Not me, I suggest you have a close look at night 1 too.

Are you able to talk more about why Night 1 is so important? Or should I give you another subject to talk about, like the recent weather we've been having.

Honestly it’s a big muggy for me.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:11 pm Grr. Wes pleyong e gemi woth thi femoly end wes tutelly dostrectid. O medi ot tu my cumpatir jast e sicund tuu leti tu vuti. Bat, O wuald hevi vutid vovex. Cuald Guldin bi bed? O cennut biloivi thisi beddois eri tekong as duwn!

Not me, I suggest you have a close look at night 1 too.

Sloonei, if you were wolf, who would you have killed last night?

I think my survival actually does make sense upon reflection.

w!sloonei has had me pocketed most of the game and could likely believe I’d vote elo with him.

w!eloh has vivax basically say sig/elo were his last two suspects and he’d cleared the other two, so having him alive was dangerous.

But @Sloonei im interested in your take on who you say you would have killed out of me, vivax and eloh if you were wolf and why.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:32 pm @Golden Justify your survival, please and thanks.

I can’t justify why I’m not dead. Not in the readies headsz. Maybe because I’ve been wrong, maybe wifom.

Look carefully at night 1. Talk more tonight/tomorrow.

I’m the only one who voted in the poll but I think it’s two votes.

Was planning to use my commute time to do more reading but that hasn’t worked out. I have to trust sloonei’s read on vivax.

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:07 pm @Elohcin @Golden

Given Vivax reasoning for voting for me what are your thoughts? Is this coming across as genuine reasons or not?

I need to read vivax for myself, and given sloonei’s read I think a look at scotty is valuable too.

The sense I have is vivax’s vote is poe and I don’t think it’s inherently ‘not genuine’ to vote for someone because you think the rest are townier.

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:26 pmFor one I am glad that tonally the gamestate has improved. I am susceptible to changes in context in how I interact with other people (as we all are to some degree).

Me too. For a minute there I thought I was the only one who was gonna solve, I'm really pleased others turned up, because it refines my thinking.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:04 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:58 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:22 am

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am I’ve decided I won’t be voting for vivax.

This is a switch from where you’ve been. Is this switch triggered by you doing any form of specific thread reading?

Yes

OK I'm doing my own reading on Vivax and I find him relatively mafia compatible so far. If you think there are posts which might lead me in a townclear direction it would be really helpful if you can point me to them.

I thought Scotty had some nice things to say about him.

Ooooh I have been meaning to go back and look at Scotty's very well-timed death rainbow.

A little voting analysis (Not looking at timings yet, will if anything looks particularly useful):

Day 1

Axe (Vivax 2.0) and Sloonei both end on Elohcin, along with Quin and Michelle. They scum team could not have relied on rev mafia stepping in... I think this is a pretty good look for Elo right off the bat. Sloonei is voting to save himself so that is NAI. I'll raise the same point for NAA I did for Sloonei, would mafia pile three votes on Elo on day one?

Sig voted for sig? I think I'm reading that right. I'm inclined to rate that as NAI as well, I can see why a member of the mafia might want to have their vote somewhere that is unlikely to draw attention but also the choice to self vote can on day one is not unheard of for civs who don't feel like they have a good read on the game yet.

@sig why did you self vote?

Day 2

Eloh and Sloonei both vote for LoRab along with Quin and G-Man. Michelle doesn't vote at all, so that is the only place with confirmed mafia votes. Sloonei's vote was particularly determinative.

Vivax votes for Quin. LoRab took 6 votes, Quin 4. I think this is a good look although not a townclear given the presence of two mafia ensuring LoRab went ahead. Vivax's reasons for voting Quin, if I recall correctly, was relative faith in llama who I concur was a good person to sheep as town at that time.

Sig didn't vote on day 2.

Day 3

As canvassed previously, Sloonei voted for G-Man from the outset and was a strong proponent of his lynch.

Sig voted for me

Vivax voted for Sloonei. G-Man got 6 votes and Sloonei 4. Notably, no known mafia were on that counterwagon. I don't think this is a great look for Vivax. It's not the best look for sloonei either.

Elo voted for DH. A place I might have ended if day 3 had played out differently, I think maybe she didn't know about SVS sub in at that time if I recall correctly.

Day 4

Elo, sig and Vivax al end up on bea.

Sloonei votes for Vivax

@Sloonei is there any particular reason you didn't vote for bea? I can't recall.

Not sure there's many conclusions to draw from day 4.

Day 5

Oh, I forgot Michelle was the counterwagon here. Two scum counterwagons, fascinating.

I'm not sure there's anything here... not unless the mafia had a preference of who died but I think that's wifom and I don't know how I'd analyse it. Sloonei and sig vote Quin, Vivax votes Michelle, Elo misses the vote but had clearly flagged IRL reasons.

@Vivax you voted for Quin on the day LoRab died. You weren't voting for Quin by the time he died. Can you articulate how your read on Quin developed over time?

Day 6

Sloonei votes Vivax. He did forget about moveable votes.

Sig votes Michelle. He's the sixth voter out of nine overall (but with DF unlikely to vote and Elo missing in action, so he could perceive he might only be sixth of seven) and the vote tally was 3-1-1 before he voted. He put Michelle completely out of reach of being overtaken, but I don't think it would be unreasonable for scum to believe Michelle was done and bus in that spot.

Vivax voted for Wilgy.

Elo was the fifth vote for Michelle, after the deal was done.

Day 7 we just dealt with DF. I don't think there's anything useful there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overall, my take aways from voting are:

Elohcin looks really good out of that day one vote and I'm inclined to think that's the single biggest town tell in the voting analysis.

Sloonei leading the lynch on G-Man feels good for him. The most concerning thing, though, is no scum on the sloonei counterwagon at all, unless the answer is vivax. It mitigates the good look somewhat. I still think sloonei feels good in voting analysis overall.

Sig doesn't look incompatible, overall. He did vote for two mafia, but the circumstances of both votes in hindsight wouldn't take me so far as clearing him.

Vivax looks the most compatible with mafia in that analysis, to me. There's nothing in there at all that clears him.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:22 am

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am I’ve decided I won’t be voting for vivax.

This is a switch from where you’ve been. Is this switch triggered by you doing any form of specific thread reading?

Yes

OK I'm doing my own reading on Vivax and I find him relatively mafia compatible so far. If you think there are posts which might lead me in a townclear direction it would be really helpful if you can point me to them.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am I’ve decided I won’t be voting for vivax.

This is a switch from where you’ve been. Is this switch triggered by you doing any form of specific thread reading?

Vivax wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:22 am Not gonna lie I have no confidence whatsoever on my last guess and have to reread a metric buckton of material.
Wilgy kill made me sus sig initially (maybe you've caught the little wordsplay with 'signature') but that on its own is just a crappy way of trying to figure it out.
Another thing that comes to mind is Quin calling my performance stellar during D1 which makes me think M!Sloonei isn't out of this world.

Golden I'll treat as town based on a lot of believable uncertainty and posts that'd just be utterly pointless for a last remaining mafia to make.
As for his question, I'll get back to it once I've reread. Off the top of my head I don't read too much into Sloonei's D1 tunnel.

In old school days you could often find valuable information in the host posts (eg, when there were many explanations in the setup as to why someone would survive the kill, you could often work out the correct one), but I think intentionally hinting at the killer might be a step further than Epi would go.

Vivax wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:55 am Question to other town :

When you just reread P1 while keeping in mind what the remaining mafia role is, who would you think it was?

The first couple of posts I quoted from Sloonei last night I believe are from page 1 and I was definitely thinking ‘this guy looks like pedantic pink specifically’…

But then I thought that looked less likely over time.

What do you think of the stuff I posted overnight? Can you read a scum plan into his collective approach to the first three days?

Might finish it off but I feel fairly satisfied with where I got to and sloon disengages from here. So if others don't pick up the slack, I'll go for a pass at someone else tomorrow.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:45 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:50 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:34 pm Do you still feel this way, as opposed to say, Llama? Llama had a ton of content.

I'm going to read a bit, be on and off.

I’d vote for llama at this point.

Wanting fingersplints back was more an emotional response to losing a friend too soon.

But llama was my top town read (read alone, there are others I have as town based on placing them in specific roles. No clue on llama’s role).

I also think splints is more likely a wifom kill and llama more likely a defensive kill, could be wrong but that’s my instinct.

I noticed a potential Golden townslip yesterday but didn't say anything because I figured it wasn't necessary, and there was a chance he was fishing. Llama seems to be at least momentarily unaware that llama is dead. I feel like this is less likely to happen if he was one of the people responsible for butchering the llama.

I don't know if Sloonei says this if bad...

You know, I was planning on coming out of this iso with a "world that explains mafia sloonei" and a "world that explains civ sloonei" to weigh them up but...

This is as far as I've gotten so far, and it's really hard for me to make sense of a world that has a mafia sloonei.

He has to be majorly wifom, then full defend one of his teammates, then full bus one of his other teammates... it's messy, in a way that just doesn't feel like a coherent scum plan.

Also, now being fairly confident sloonei is no mason, and reading through just his iso again... I have yet another role in mind for him

Sloonei's gone way up my list from this read, glad I did it.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:57 pm [VOTE: G-man] aubergine

I'll be our vote guinea pig today, and they are indeed still changeable.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:46 pm

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:11 pm Visions of Day 1’s of old are running through my mind. I’m not inclined to just let it go in the undisciplined manner of yesteryear. I need more meat to chew on from everyone first. I’m thankful that my night away coincided with Night 0 instead of the first half of Day 1.

Early game G-man seems to take an active posture, at least with regards to Day 1. My instinct is to say he has not followed through on this. But let's see.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:15 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:07 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:27 pm That being said, I actually think sig coming out and throwing caution to the wind with regards to his spelling and grammar is townie, if not reckless. Could be WIFOM, but that role is incredibly restrictive to my *vibe* which comes with autocorrect errors and incomplete sentences. So I get it.

The grammar police role is mafia. Making typos does not benefit town.

Valid point indeed! But the civvies have an adverb checker, so we should play it old school like when lie detector roles were still in vogue and pressure everyone to post a unique adverb. Anyone who resists must die.

G-man acknowledges that Pedantic Pink has no town utility, but the adverb checker does. Neat. Appreciated, but not alignment indicative.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:43 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:31 am Bea: *Lick*
G-Man: *Lick*

Vagrant doctor, why for art hast thou lickest me? Dost thy tongue perceive me in a particular manner?

Acknowledges being thoroughly licked by DrWilgy. Noted.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:20 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:02 pm

thellama73 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:21 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:28 pm I have an idea of who the mafia is, but it's not who I'm voting at the moment. Though, the person I'm voting may also be mafia, who knows.

I do not like this post, nor do I like the vote for Bea. Mind you, I think voting for Bea in general is reasonable because people always tend to trust her, which makes her dangerous on the occasions when she is mafia, but Axey’s vote came without explanation and was a pile on after a (marginally) more justified vote.

Also, why would you not vote for who you think the mafia is?

I’ve learned to just disregard Axe in D1 because he does this as town, mafia, independent and axehole

thellama73 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:09 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:27 pm That is some effective R o L e F I S h i N g

For anyone who misunderstood my intent.

I understand the concept of throwing out votes in movable-vote games to gauge reactions, but at the same time that can be a cop out way to excuse bad behavior. If you successfully start a wagon with your vote, you get what you want, but if it doesn't take you can just claim it was for role fishing and claim immunity from any criticism. Don't expect me not to evaluate you based on your behavior just because you claim it doesn't mean anything.

Viral infections sometimes have a sweeter disposition than NAA early on in games. It is true that he comes across in the same abrasive manner regardless of alignment. If you play a few games with him, you will either 1) learn to ignore some of his punchier tendencies, or 2) auto-sus him anyway because even though it's NAI, it's also not a reason to NOT sus him.


And let's keep in mind that there is a 3P role out there when we're reading people; we're not just living in a binary system.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:16 pm

Spoiler: show

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:13 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:29 am We got two TRs on sig from Scotty, then Golden. I'd agree with them I think.

I wonder why Eloh didn't post more when confronted with two townreads that went against his considerations that sig could be mafia.
Eloh's explanation for sig sus reads a bit stretched too. Would be my early whiff for a start.

Judging from my perspective I don't consider others' reads except they are my town reads. Had Eloh said they town read Scotty and Golden? Because if not, why do you think they should post more and reconsider?

LoRab wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:23 am Popping in. I’ll be driving most of the day, and so I can do so safely, will not be posting and driving. But I will try to check in on stops.

Note well use adverb above, as well as in this sentence.

Looking forward for your input

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:49 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:31 am Votes should be expressed in the thread though, like this:
[VOTE: Vivax] aubergine

Let the little man whisper!

I will HAPPILY use an adverb, but it may take me a while to get used to the vote tag thing. Have patience.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:48 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:21 pm

I would say it is something to consider.

I'm not a fan of changing votes. I like to take the day to interact and observe without being hasty.

Sig says votes are changeable. I don't see how he could have known this before voting. I can only find him sus right away as his hasty vote would most likely land on a civ.

Yeah if only there were a role that explicitly stated (hey look guys, adverb. I'm multitasking!) that votes were changeable.

Maybe Eloh missed that part, though. I guess if it were an indie role or a mafia role, and Eloh were a civ and had no reason to read up on the mafia/indie sides of things, that could be it.

But if that role were not an indie or mafia role, and Eloh were a mafia or an indie and would have reason to be more focused on that side of the board, I could see a world where Eloh might forgo reading up on the civ side of things.

So, rule number 5 says the "votes are changeable. MAYBE." Then, I did read the roles including Moveable Votes, but didn't understand it. I was looking at it like a RULE and not a ROLE, probably b/c I had been in the car all day traveling. But I just had a lightbulb moment looking back at it now after a good night's sleep! So, I definitely get it now.

I no longer suspect sig atm. We shall see what's to come.

I didn't ask for adverbs, I asked for voting using the vote bbcode in the thread for transparency

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:49 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:37 pm Right, so Sig is obviously mafia, right?

This one

I refused to take it seriously, which I suspect is the point.

That post generated the whole discussion though

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:02 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:49 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:48 pm
This one

I refused to take it seriously, which I suspect is the point.

Correct.

I was about to ask!

An unserious post can generate serious discussion.

I don't know what to make of you yet. I like that you're constantly in motion, but it's too early to determine if it's just artifice this time around.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:05 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:54 pm There would be nothing more ‘classic mafia’ than DF being D1 lynched for low posting.

Hopefully they posts and we can make a read because lynching a low poster at random is a coin flip.

I want to chop a baddie today, but if we have to mischop, then I'd rather we be wrong about a player whose interactions we can parse through for clues than someone who leaves us stranded in a field with a bag of sand to pound.

Big post. A couple things worth pulling out here.

First, G-man offers a (very) soft defense of NAA (now Vivax) by assuring others that his style is not alignment indicative.
This is followed up by a seeming non sequitur about the existence of a third party role. I do not know why this observation was placed here.
G-man also offers a slightly favorable view of DH, and expresses his preference to target high-activity players on Day 1. I don't necessarily agree with this approach, but I see where it is coming from and do not believe it is indicative of any particular alignment.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:02 pm [VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

So many little pings going off, but lacking the theory of mind as a civ and tying yourself up in ‘that’s why you’re bad, actually that makes you civ’ logic is enough for a vote.

I seem to recall baddie Eloh being guilty of being too agreeable. I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing here, coward.

G-man seems to disagree with the Day 1 suspicion against Eloh. Noted. I do not know how far that case had progressed prior to this moment, but this is G-man's first mention of the Eloh suspicion. I'll be interested in how this develops. Eloh and I were the top two wagons that day, and I do not recall G-man expressing any strong opinions about me. If he was similarly on the sidelines for Eloh, then I may have some real concerns here.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:29 pm Very early groupings from a Day 1 dunce:

I'm not inclined to chop anyone with a lower post count than myself, so that means a stay of execution for LoRab, DF, and Kate for now. Let them establish themselves for at least the night phase and we'll see what shakes out.

I feel good about Llama, so he's off the list for now as well. I don't see what some folks are seeing in Eloh (who has been classic mischop bait in the past).

Vivax is shiny and new to me, so I'm inclined to give them the BOTD for now.

I feel like chopping from the top half of the post count will yield the most content to pick through, so that leaves me with a prospective list of Scotty, Sloonei, Golden the Coward, DH, bea, Michelle, and NAA.

Seeing that the Rez Plz event includes only players who die without flipping, I might hesitate to mischop a few of those names because of their potential utility as rezzable civs. I hope that you all can make my decision-making process easier on me by doing things that sort you all out a little more by the time I'm eating my breakfast in the morning.

Lovely bunch of reads here. Thank You, G. This reads primarily like a checklist of people not to vote for. That is not the worst thing in the world. POE and all that. But this is a continuation of a trend in G-man's posts where he is unable or unwilling to name any suspects. This can sometimes be a sign of a mafioso who either does not want to cause conflict, or is simply struggling to generate fake suspicions.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:14 pm Voting for Golden the Coward for poopooing on my attempts to sort out game mechanics to the civvies’ advantage. He’s also high post-count, which gives us lots to chew on, right or wrong. His tone is pretty level, but that (along with his posting volume) could be a ploy to place him right at radar level. He’s present, posting, and engaged. At this early stage it’s easy enough to give someone like him a pass for a few days just on those qualities alone.

[VOTE: Golden the Coward] aubergine


I have a meeting tonight that may push right up to eod. I’ll hang around up to the start of the meeting, but I can’t promise that I’ll make it back before the flip.

I don't care for this vote and I feel like both justifications (Golden is "poopooing" G-man mechanics talk, and Golden has a high post count) are both crutches of sort. This feels like a vote cast out of obligation rather than earnest suspicion. Perhaps I feel this way because G-man states these points very bluntly, suggestive of confidence, but has previously expressed absolutely nothing resembling a suspicion against anyone prior to this moment. It does not jive with the rest of his content.

Noting that Day 1 ends without G-man ever really weighing in on the main wagons. I understand that he was not present for much of the day, but that is still less-than-inspiring. Sloonei has received no unique mentions.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:03 pm Vanishing for most of the phase was not my intention. Here is a short version of what I have so far:

Several tiers based on participation-

Big Talk- Scotty, Sloonei, Golden coward, DH- I would be shocked if there wasn’t a baddie in that group. Maybe two, but lots of productive chatter for the most part.

Llama in a tier of his own, but I still feel loose llama is good llama.

VivAxe or Viv2.0, Eloh, Michelle, Quin- mixed bag here. Eloh was sussed yesterday, Viv2.0 is a reset and still murky on D1 NAA read, Michelle feels most ambiguous (her posts didn’t make any impression on me), and same goes for Quin. These folks are at radar-level. I need to ISO to see if I detected a skimmer.

Kate, sig, Bea, Wilgy- 1/2 seem off the table today and the sig is less memorable that Wilgy licking everything in sight. Under the radar crew- also need ISOs to find manufactured content.


G-Man, LoRab, DF- low posters. Not ideal to find myself in that camp that must be ‘dealt with’ before too long. I saw points about LR’s evasiveness but I’m not exactly one to harp on that without being a hypocrite just yet. DF… just needs to show up for the weekend and get some content before he becomes an afterthought to everything happening in the present.

I will try to speed read the day and make a vote after I get back from wife’s birthday dinner.

Too many null reads for me right now- not a good look. Need to get my head back in the game and sort out some townclears to help my poe.

Groups based on post volume with llama as the only player who gets singled out with his own read. I would like to see G-man start giving players more individual focus.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:52 pm Voting LoRab. DH has been producing content. Another day to evaluate is warranted to see if it holds up. Sorry to tie it up. Not trying to cause chaos this time.

[VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

Let the moderator decide.

G-man spent a significant portion of Day 1 pontificating about the value of voting for high-volume players rather than low-volume players.
On Day 2, he makes a last-minute return to the thread and casts a tying vote against a player who he had just categorized as a "low poster" in his previous post. G-man had specifically acknowledged the case against LoRab and then excused himself from participating in the rhetoric against her. The alternative wagon to LoRab, meanwhile, was one of G-man's "Big Talk" players in DH. He had explicitly said that he believes at least one, perhaps two, members of that four-player group could be mafia.
So G-man elected to vote for LoRab over DH yesterday, despite having previously given stronger indications that he should favor a DH vote in more ways than one. Noted.

I'll end this post here and review G's Day 3 ISOs on their own.

This ISO has taken my vote from "Let's talk about G-man" to, "Hey, maybe we really should be voting for G-man."

Easily the most town thing I've found with Sloonei yet. He casts the very first vote for G-Man, then goes away to do work to reduce his PoE, and comes away from his thread read of G-Man with an increased view of getting him lynched. I don't think this was necessary if Sloonei and G-Man were teammates.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:58 pm @Vivax @thellama73 Quin wagon is dead. Choose Lorab or DH if you are around.

Not much value in me calling out the number of times Sloonei actively defending Quin on day 2 (there were many, and I think they're memorable).

This one, towards the end, is perhaps the most interesting though.

Once again, through two days, if we have w!sloonei we have a bold version who disregards any concern of connection.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:07 pm Players I Have a High Degree of Trust In Right Now:
Golden
Scotty
Quin

Players I Trust a Bit, But Not As Much As Those Guys:
thellama
New Vivax
Michelle

Players That Are In A Vague Blob of Uncertainty:
bea
DFaraday
DrWilgy
G-Man
Kate
Sig

Players I Have Had Reasons to Suspect, But Have Also Seen Glimpses of Town:
Elohcin
LoRab

DharmaHelper:
DharmaHelper

Sloonei, how do you feel about this reads list (specifically, the people still living from it) at this point in the game?

And why, after being the person who specifically called out Elo's potential townslip, did you have her this low?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:24 pm We're not killing mafia today.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:31 pm That being said, if not sloonei, then vivax. Also, Elo still a good kill.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:10 pm maybe i will be here, because i can't seem to look away. this is the problem with a work-from-home job.

I have no plans on helping you live through the day. But my Spidey sense says that you will somehow.

@Sloonei since day 1 these posts have been quite meaningful in terms of my read on the slot occupied by Vivax 2.0. I have felt that Vivax has most likely been town on the back of them.

You, on the other hand, have fairly consistently chased Vivax 2.0 during the game. What are your thoughts on these posts. Do they move the needle for you?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:46 pm Current vote count (15 min left)

Spoiler: show

bea
0
No votes
Voters: None
DFaraday
0
No votes
Voters: None
DharmaHelper
0
No votes
Voters: None
DrWilgy
0
No votes
Voters: None
Elohcin
2
7%
Voters: Quin, Michelle
fingersplints
0
No votes
Voters: None
G-Man
1
3%
Voters: DharmaHelper
Golden
2
7%
Voters: G-Man, DrWilgy
Kate
0
No votes
Voters: None
thellama73
0
No votes
Voters: None
Lorab
0
No votes
Voters: None
Michelle
0
No votes
Voters: None
NotAnAxehole
0
No votes
Voters: None
Quin
2
7%
Voters: Scotty, Golden
Scotty
1
3%
Voters: Kate
sig
1
3%
Voters: sig
Sloonei
4
14%
Voters: NotAnAxehole, fingersplints, Vivax, thellama73
Vivax
2
7%
Voters: Sloonei, Elohcin

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:51 pm

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:48 pm Stronger than yourself?

I have no read on myself.

I also have no interest in voting for Quin out of self-preservation.

OK, so this is an interesting juncture.

Sloonei has no interest in voting Quin out of self preservation. At this point, Vivax has 2 votes (including Sloonei), Quin has 2, Elohcin has 2. Sloonei has 4.

Sloonei already declared Quin his top town read before this. So, I think there's justification for any alignment Sloonei to stick to that and go for Eloh to self-preserve rather than Quin. But if he's wolf and he voted for Quin, it would have been likely a day 1 w/w situation.

On the flip side, the two votes for Elohcin at that point were Quin and Michelle. So, two mafia. The last two votes on that wagon were Sloonei and the slot that is currently Vivax 2.0. I feel like it would be an awfully bold move for three out of four baddies to be on the same four vote wagon on day one.

My takeaway from day one is essentially that if Sloonei is mafia, he was a consistently bold, wifom-y mafia who did not care that these connections could be found by a thorough examination of day one. But also, I believe day one is where connections are found most cleanly and obviously, before the mafia know how the thread will take.

You get to the end of day one on sloonei and he really does actually feel genuinely solvey in that period.

And I also note that (without me recalling this in particular at all) he was really on Vivax's ass.

@Vivax I know it was in your indy capacity not your current capacity, but what was your perception of Sloonei going after you on day one?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:20 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:19 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:14 pmQuin is town.

Why should I believe you?

Because I’ve read books.

More wifom, but playful banter wifom.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:07 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:27 pm That being said, I actually think sig coming out and throwing caution to the wind with regards to his spelling and grammar is townie, if not reckless. Could be WIFOM, but that role is incredibly restrictive to my *vibe* which comes with autocorrect errors and incomplete sentences. So I get it.

The grammar police role is mafia. Making typos does not benefit town.

What is your specific point here @Sloonei? You made a deliberate typo yourself a few posts above, so it can't be 'town shouldn't make typos'.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:45 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:11 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:29 pm
Pedantic Pink
Gets a one shot role check, but they can only use it on someone who has made a grammatical or spelling error. You must quote the post where the error can be found in your night target PM to the host. If your chosen post does not actually contain an error, your role check fails and it cannot be used again.

Also given my tendency to not A. Double check my posts 2. Care about grammar that much and C to play on my phone this role definitely feels targeted against me.

I wish you good duck with that.

And Sloonei's third post

Immediately, I would say that for Sloonei to be bad in this game, he'd have to be playing with a level of deliberate wifom that I personally haven't experienced of him. Do any of the rest of you have experience with a full-wifom from the jump Sloon?

(Also if this is wolf Sloonei, I admire this level of wifom. I'm not sure I'd be able to pull it off.)

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:54 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:25 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:16 pm Verily, I say unto thee, my brothers and sister- this game looks awesome. Let's have some fun!


PS- Could the hosts include the player list in the OP or somewhere? I'd like to start setting up my spreadsheet... old-school style!

Vastly disappointed with myself. EBWOP- Verily, I say unto thee, my brothers and sisters- this game looks awesome. Let's have some fun!

It’s just the one sister, actually.

I started isoing sloonei and... is this something he'd say if bad? It would be super on the nose in his second post - to reply to G-Man with the gender balance of their collective team.