The Syndicate

Hey PC

Since you refused to tell me in chat.

Why don’t you honestly say what’s up with your role. It either says lylo or it protects you from nk/contests etc, not both.

Which is it?

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:56 pm guys tutuu just got a role PM and one of the hydra heads is actually the last mafia. Sorry about that. (This is not serious)

Cue nanook actually having a ‘last head standing’ contest.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:35 pm I've said it before, but whatever alignment you both have, I'm impressed. This is top tier mafia play.

I'm going to sleep and try to not think about the game.

This is how I feel too

I did not push turn to read back and I’m not going to comment on their interpretation of what they find there. That’s for them.

Also as far as me ‘insisting’ PC read back… it was hardly that. It was a response to tutuu’s disbelief that they hadn’t solved the game at me being two-shot and me actually truthfully having tried to neighbour all the people I said. It was literally just me saying ‘I did target those people, honest’.

Oh I just found where I used the word tinfoil. It was yesterday after the flip when I was making my selection of you vs pc. So I concede I did in fact say it, it just wasn’t part of todays convo.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:28 pm That's such a complicated role. Like what

I know! And this seems to be the basis of suspicion on me but, like, I can’t control that!

Nor can I, by the way, make up my role name. I just can’t.

So basically it’s:

You can neighbour people:
This rule applies to kill attempts on you
This rule applies to kill attempts on your neighbours.

The exception that if it would end the game was debited by a footnote with a little ^. This stood out to me because I would use a *

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:22 pm WAIT.

How did you bait Alison to shoot you if she can't shoot you being in the naighbourhood @Golden

The ‘neighbours can’t shoot neighbours’ applies amongst the rest of the group… I needed to get to having two others in the chat before it took effect.

The rule that relates to me is that on the first cycle where I was targeted for a kill, members of my neighbourhood up to the number of kills I was targeted for would die in my place.

Otherwise, I would die.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:18 pm syn is a free elf and has been given permission to reveal the extra role claim

golden claims people within the neighbourhood cannot shoot each other

so the full claim at this point is something like:

1. creates neighbourhood every night
2. redirects kills onto someone else in neighbourhood
3. can choose to protect someone in neighbourhood
4. people within neighbourhood cannot shoot each other

Three doesn’t exist and 2 is a single kill and isn’t a controlled redirection.

And none of the protections operate if the kill would end the game.

I have not been holding back the existence of the additional part of my role claim in this thread. I’ve alluded to it several times.

May as well just say it here, neighbours can’t shoot neighbours.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:59 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:58 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:57 pm So my theory was that maybe Golden had said that they suspected me to PC to bait them. But that didn't pan out.
It really wasn’t like that. It was just an honest statement of how I was feeling… more likely you than them, but they are the ones where neighbouring is more helpful for me to get a better read.
Why is that? If you suspect me more, why not neighbour me?

I don’t think I’d get a better read on you by neighbouring you. If anything, I think I’d be less likely to detect if you’re wolf, I’d let you pocket me.

Tbh I think if I was wolf I probably would have neighboured you lol but who can say for sure.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:59 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:57 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:52 pm @Golden Please talk to me. I want to hear more about how you think it's possible that I'm mafia, and how you think it's not possible that it's PC
I think it could be either of you, and the way PC has handled being neighboured is alarming to me.
Well, you can take your time. I might go to bed soon, but interested in every bit of thought you have.

I’m gonna take the full 48 hours.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:57 pm So my theory was that maybe Golden had said that they suspected me to PC to bait them. But that didn't pan out.

It really wasn’t like that. It was just an honest statement of how I was feeling… more likely you than them, but they are the ones where neighbouring is more helpful for me to get a better read.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:52 pm @Golden Please talk to me. I want to hear more about how you think it's possible that I'm mafia, and how you think it's not possible that it's PC

I think it could be either of you, and the way PC has handled being neighboured is alarming to me.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:49 pm in 3:49 am here im going to bed

tomorrow im reading golden's iso and the hood chat

i do not wish to read any more posts or discord messages that are pre-emptively blaming anyone for hypotethically being wrong

emotional terrorism (holding people hostage) does not belong in a honorable game of mafia

if you are gonna AtE do it the honorable way - call yourself garbage and bad. beg to be spared that way. dont include other people in it. defend yourself but dont attack with it.

-t

It’s not ate, I apologise for it coming across that way.

I will be disappointed at how today is playing out. If you want to talk honour, I am incredibly shocked to see what you have done with neighbourhood chat, just posting your own angle on it in here without further questioning or mentioning it in there in advance.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:43 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:41 pm
Why did you say that I mentioned I said I thought you two would vote for each other but not include the not where I said ‘and I’m going to have to solve’
because the pertinent part of that is expecting dizzy and us to cross-vote, not the boilerplate you tagged on afterward (obviously you're going to say you have to solve between us. what are you going to do instead? say "and then I can just vote whoever and win gg"?)

Well, look. You’re the one who found lockclear evidence in the chat that I hadn’t even thought of

If you don’t think that is lockclear evidence and it’s faked, I can’t do anything about that.

You say dizzy has better mech. You have literal proof that I neighboured Alison on day one and the content of our discussion. I cannot do more to mech clear myself than that.

If you think it’s a massive con that Alison and I cooked together and tinfoil that, I can’t do anything with that.

Ok I’m out for a bit. Bye dudes.

PC why you acting like I didn’t specifically tell you I wasn’t going to hammer and I was going to do my due diligence?

Why did you say that I mentioned I said I thought you two would vote for each other but not include the not where I said ‘and I’m going to have to solve’

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:34 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:29 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:13 pm
And I'd like both yours and Golden's account of what he's selling. Kind of sucks to not see it for myself.
posting this now so golden can't try revisionist history later:

golden opened our neighbourhood chat by saying they think it's you, but that they neighboured us due to tinfoil

since you think it's us and we think it's golden, i expect golden to have a sudden change of heart and start pushing us as well
@Golden Did you or did you not say this?

It’s a paraphrase, but sure it’s a reasonable interpretation of what I said. Operative thing being I did not say tinfoil, I said I brought them to figure out if my townread on them was correct.

This is not a case where I’m like 95/5 thinking it’s you. It’s more 65/35. And they used the true language when I said I ‘think’ it’s you.

But I also told them what I said here… I’m not going to hammer, I plan to spend full 48 hours doing my due diligence and casing both of you.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:33 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:32 pm And if that’s not what happens and I get elimmed, then…

If it’s PC who is bad, I’ll forgive them
If it’s dizzy who is bad, then PC has completely wasted the neighbouring.
Yes unleash the AtE

Most honorable mafia player

-t

It’s not an AtE. It’s just facts. I don’t think it’s possible to be town and in my neighbourhood and reach the view that I’m wolf.

And if that’s not what happens and I get elimmed, then…

If it’s PC who is bad, I’ll forgive them
If it’s dizzy who is bad, then PC has completely wasted the neighbouring.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:30 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:29 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:28 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:20 pm both of u have:

- AtEd a ton which pockets me but also now that one of u is mafia, please understand why people who AtE deserve to be pressured nonetheless, so waht i did d5 was not necessarily anti-town, at least imo. or at least not like the worst possible thing i could have done
- voted to save svs
- avoided death event
- shielded each other

im not dissing on the town between u, im just sharing that fmpov both of u have had identical positions so ur both kinda scum lol. so from that regard its a bit hard. dizzy's mech just looks so much better than golden's

i can make a post baout golden now

-t
See this was part of me thinking it's you. It's like a mirror experience in some ways.
HOWEVER, I had the same experience in a game with Ilario, where I was the wolf who pocketed him.

Kind of jarring to have Golden come out saying it's me.
I literally haven’t come out and said that, and it’s suss to me that you are making out like I have.
you literally said in chat that you expect dizzy and us to cross-vote lmao

Yes, and that I’m the one who’ll have to solve the game.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:28 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:20 pm both of u have:

- AtEd a ton which pockets me but also now that one of u is mafia, please understand why people who AtE deserve to be pressured nonetheless, so waht i did d5 was not necessarily anti-town, at least imo. or at least not like the worst possible thing i could have done
- voted to save svs
- avoided death event
- shielded each other

im not dissing on the town between u, im just sharing that fmpov both of u have had identical positions so ur both kinda scum lol. so from that regard its a bit hard. dizzy's mech just looks so much better than golden's

i can make a post baout golden now

-t
See this was part of me thinking it's you. It's like a mirror experience in some ways.
HOWEVER, I had the same experience in a game with Ilario, where I was the wolf who pocketed him.

Kind of jarring to have Golden come out saying it's me.

I literally haven’t come out and said that, and it’s suss to me that you are making out like I have.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:00 pm I've been feeling PC could be lost wolf since D5, and that whole day just felt awful. Sloonei said PC is lost wolf. They have literally claimed it in thread. It makes so much sense to me.

Golden is apparently thinking I'm the wolf. If Golden thinks this and PC knows that, why not go with it and get me chopped? Unless they already posted in thread it was Golden?

I think Golden has been town pretty much this whole game. I haven't even wavered much. Does it make sense to go after me if they are in fact wolf? They would know I suspect PC, because I've said it on previous days. Why not neighbour me and talk me into a PC vote?

This doesn't make sense.

I am not thinking I know who the wolf is atm. What I am thinking is I better take this seriously.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:30 pm @Golden Why is it me and why is it not PC? Do you want to talk about it?

I do… and I want to take my time over it. I have a lot to think about and solve.

In advance of putting in the work:

It’s you because your claim isn’t alignment-indicative, and because you’ve done nothing that is truly clearing in the game.

It’s not PC because making the hydra wolf is extremely strange design and because throughout the game their perspective has been entirely town.

But honestly pc and tutuu are pretty synonymous in my head but I don’t want to minimise the contributions of syn and sheep.

Six*/nine* of you lol

I love all four of you and this is genuinely one of the most spectacular and confusing end games I’ve ever had the privilege to be a part of.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:33 pm kate confirmed the existence of the neighbourhood, but that's really all we have

AND that my full summary of interaction with Alison was true.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:17 pm And now I don't get cred for that either

And this is why I townread you

Dizzy not as generous as once thought

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:15 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:14 pm because you came second.
dizzy is generous that way

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:10 pm I mean, I still don't see it as a town derp though. Because as mafia they would think about themselves as town anyway, no?

The thought that ‘lylo and ending the game are the same thing’ is inherently a difficult perspective slip to fake as wolf. He didn’t understand how my question was relevant.

Although I’m not giving you credit for doing the same thing because you came second.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:08 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:06 pm PC was the one who, a long time ago, brought up that their vest wouldn’t work at lylo.

Only it’s not lylo. It’s ‘if it would end the game’. Their wording is the same as mine.
this is not true and we've never agreed with your wording

us using lylo is deliberate

Deliberate, but a lie.

Either that or you’re lying about something else but… honesty mateys just take your townclear.

I was uniquely positioned to have insight into that.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:05 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:03 pmYes it would.

And the fact you don’t instinctively get this is exactly why the PC thing you think isn’t a townderp IS a townderp.
Oh. Game ending constituting also game end for mafia.

Yes.

PC was the one who, a long time ago, brought up that their vest wouldn’t work at lylo.

Only it’s not lylo. It’s ‘if it would end the game’. Their wording is the same as mine.

If they’re mafia (unless it’s 3v2, but I just don’t think it is), they will die.

Otherwise they invented something in their rolecard (that their vest doesn’t work at lylo) that I can independently prove exists within a town rolecard.

Which is a very odd thing to even think to invent if they are teammates with svs who has a vest without that condition.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:36 pm To be fair, I did also go through the thought process of 'chopping PCs vest would prove they are town, and give us an extra confirmed townie going into the following day' - I just got to the point of realising that it's pointless trading sloonei's confirmed townie status for yours.

And given I'm now very sure your vest won't work if you're wolf... I think the answer is we just chop who we think is bad, full stop.

@Sloonei what did you think of what I perceive as tutuu townderping.
Popping their vest wouldn't prove them as town though. I'm confused. If they lied and died, that would prove them lying mafia lol. But that's very unlikely that they lied, cause it only creates extra attention. It wasn't a fully formed thought form my side in the first place. If we had better night actions, it might've been worth something.

Yes it would.

And the fact you don’t instinctively get this is exactly why the PC thing you think isn’t a townderp IS a townderp.

To be fair, I did also go through the thought process of 'chopping PCs vest would prove they are town, and give us an extra confirmed townie going into the following day' - I just got to the point of realising that it's pointless trading sloonei's confirmed townie status for yours.

And given I'm now very sure your vest won't work if you're wolf... I think the answer is we just chop who we think is bad, full stop.

@Sloonei what did you think of what I perceive as tutuu townderping.

I won’t be able to save anyone, dizzy. Relied on me having actual neighbours.

There’s more houses here but no one wants to move in.

(I think the response of t!Porscha to the PC town clear is a dizzy vote not a golden tinfoil).

Am I confbiasing at this point? Yeah, probably.

But my confidence in the solve is amping up.

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

However...

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:26 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:04 am This is a townderp.

If it’s 4v1, it’s not lylo but chopping the wolf still ends the game.

I think PC would be viscerally aware of this if wolf.
As pc said, I'm also impressed.

So impressed I have to ask why you seemed so aware of it?

This is the post of someone who is feeling cornered.

The language of "I have to ask you" is so contrived... it's like a cartoon pointing finger.

It accepts at face value the PC town clear, but ignores all of the build up.

Tutuu was impressed because I baited her into a townclear, and she could see my working.

I'm not baiting Tutuu into a townclear, based on info that (outside of PC) only I possess, if wolf, at final 5. That's just not happening.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:35 am The other possibility here is it genuinely is PC and I’m clearing them for the wrong reasons. But that just seems so unlikely.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:39 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:37 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:35 am The other possibility here is it genuinely is PC and I’m clearing them for the wrong reasons. But that just seems so unlikely.
I also am about 85% in the camp of clearing Party Crasher for several strong but not rock-solid reasons, and 15% wondering if I'm making a mistake there.
But if they’ve been honest, we can only pop them without their best stepping in at lylo and I’m quite convinced there isn’t a pair here… everyone is paranoid of everyone.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:41 am Actually I just went back and read my own role.

It’s not lylo.

It’s if it ends the game. So if pc is the last wolf I think one shot would kill them.

Here's my progression, over the course of 6 minutes.

"Gah, Porscha does feel town, maybe I should tinfoil PC"
"Nah, even if its PC, elimming them today is pointless"
"Wait... I don't think my role actually said lylo, I should check."
"No, it doesn't, it says if it ends the game, and I think there's only one wolf, so I don't need to worry about their vest."

Pretty basic thought process, actually. One PC didn't independently think through specifically because they (unlike me) didn't actually have to solve 'what do we do about the person who survives an elim'.

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:26 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:04 am
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:03 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:00 am
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:58 am yeah sloonei in case u missed it

our "vest" extends to not just normal death, but to getting chopped once lol (we claimed it pretty early, day 2 i think, maybe day 3) (it falls off in lylo)

-t
Mine doesn't extend to getting chopped.

And I want you to double check. Is it lylo, or just if it ends the game?
lylo and ends the game is interchangable when it comes to getting chopped during the day

during the night, our vest should still work even if us getting shot would otherwise end the game. it doesnt make sense not to, thats how bp vests always work, and ours is standard in that regard. ours isnt a redirect like yours, ours is pretty simple. its just the first time we die, we dont (and it extends to chop) (but not lylo)

-t
This is a townderp.

If it’s 4v1, it’s not lylo but chopping the wolf still ends the game.

I think PC would be viscerally aware of this if wolf.
As pc said, I'm also impressed.

So impressed I have to ask why you seemed so aware of it?

If this isn't wolfing I don't know what is.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 3:45 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:06 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:24 amReminds me of my own town game:

1) hasn’t caught any wolves
2) townreads everyone
3) tilted at being called a liar
4) understands the need to create town momentum in the thread but can’t work out how and just ends up forlornly saying ‘I really am town’ a lot.
Never been roasted so fiercely in my life lol
I actually have caught wolves. I caught Marmot, and also I listened to Nut on Sean, which I'm pretty happy with, because I think listening is something I do well, in my good moments.
I mean I also caught marmot on day 2 and I caught Alison but, yknow, I mean nailing one to a wall in a clearing kinda way.

This exchange @Sloonei

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:08 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:06 am I don’t think it’s PC.

I think it really does HAVE to be Porscha.
Why isn’t it dizzy?

Porscha -> Dizzy
Dizzy -> Porscha

Honestly either way, if there's only one NK overnight we win the game.

But I'm just really convinced it isn't Dizzy. Dizzy just acts and feels like my absolute mirror this game. Every time he's been feeling a way in the thread, it's been replication of how I'm feeling. Every time he's on a wolf he doesn't nail the wolf to the wall because he's paranoid he's wrong. I'll find a post I made about him in yesterday's day phase.

I don’t think it’s PC.

I think it really does HAVE to be Porscha.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:03 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:00 am
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:58 am yeah sloonei in case u missed it

our "vest" extends to not just normal death, but to getting chopped once lol (we claimed it pretty early, day 2 i think, maybe day 3) (it falls off in lylo)

-t
Mine doesn't extend to getting chopped.

And I want you to double check. Is it lylo, or just if it ends the game?
lylo and ends the game is interchangable when it comes to getting chopped during the day

during the night, our vest should still work even if us getting shot would otherwise end the game. it doesnt make sense not to, thats how bp vests always work, and ours is standard in that regard. ours isnt a redirect like yours, ours is pretty simple. its just the first time we die, we dont (and it extends to chop) (but not lylo)

-t

This is a townderp.

If it’s 4v1, it’s not lylo but chopping the wolf still ends the game.

I think PC would be viscerally aware of this if wolf.

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