The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:34 pm I suppose to put it simply there was just not enough civ play. DDL and I never really got put under pressure at all until it was way too late. There is so much to be said about just pressuring people for the sake of it and it needed to happen here to get a win.

Imo what happened is that nobody really knows my scum meta here, at least before this game. My previous record for baddie survival was day 3. People had a strong mental image of what civ DDL looks like, and probably no image of bad DDL, except maybe the memory of me easily getting caught. I managed to internalize my civ meta and pour into my posts to at least make people confortable around me. When paranoia started kicking in, it was too late.

I'm probably one of the least often lynched civs in this site. I pretty much only ever get lynched as civ at lylo. People are used to that. I predict this may change after this game as people now have a mental image of a baddie DDL getting away with it.

So yeah next time may not be so easy.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 pm wolbre04 will you be signing up for and playing more games in the future here?

Sources say he just got two friends from his home forum to sign in.

At this rate he's gonna beat dunya in recruitment effficiency.

Imo what Jay really lacked here was a Sloonei. Batman just ain't the same without Robin.

I don't mind P-scores being re-implemented, though. Always thought they were neat.

But yeah I'm modkilling people.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 pm Or, gee, I don't know, people can play games they sign up for.

I agree, but it just doesn't happen. Games get delayed and people get busy before they start. People miscalculate activity. required. Games explode in posts and they can't catch up. They get sick. They get extra work. They stop being active in the site and nobody can find them to ask them to come.

@ Mac

I usually do the opposite thing actually. Don't care about votes, only posts.

One of the best civ players I know likes to not vote on purpose in early days. Not sure if it's a good idea but he swears by it.

But imo the problem with people not posting is that nobody can read them. It turns the game into slot machine.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:08 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:59 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:53 pm Guys, guys.

Jay said he won't revive the modkill argument but I will.

Let's start modkilling inactives.

Plz.
No. I still don't agree with this at all.
This game would have been much better if Penny, INH and Dom were dead by Day 4.
Of course. You're mafia. Two for one.

I wish people would stop signing up for games they can't play.

I was busy as hell but at least still managed to post and vote.

I wish people did a lot of things but they don't. Inactivity is part of the game, like it or not.

Also I know I'm mafia but I'm trying to be objective. Even then this two for one would have benefitted the civs imo. It's higher than the normal bad/civ rate, and it only removes vote power from the baddies.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:05 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:53 pm Guys, guys.

Jay said he won't revive the modkill argument but I will.

Let's start modkilling inactives.

Plz.
The participation scores we had for a time were a good way to deal with it. Though I never saw them in practice, I guess.

They deal with a single person who goes inactive every game. They don't deal with someone who plays 10 games in a row and flakes the 11th one because of real life. But when that happens, we still need to minimize their damage on the game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:02 pm I don't blame Quin or anyone else for not wanting to modkill. It sucks.

I do think it's better than leaving a skeleton in the game though.

I hate to do it. Did you see that late replacement I made in Image Mafia? I probably broke the clause I wrote myself to avoid a modkill just to put Jack in the game in the last day.

I advise careful analysis and common sense when doing it. Take your time, look for replacements, try to minimize damage.

But sometimes the game is just so full of zombies you gotta light up a flamethrower and get rid of them. It's life.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:59 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:53 pm Guys, guys.

Jay said he won't revive the modkill argument but I will.

Let's start modkilling inactives.

Plz.
No. I still don't agree with this at all.

This game would have been much better if Penny, INH and Dom were dead by Day 4.

Also I just found out Pennywise was in the sockpuppet game. So he was playing two games alongside this one, and from the talk in there it seems he was playing like a monster in one of them. So at least it explains it.

I hope I get to play with him here again some time. Don't hate him please.

Guys, guys.

Jay said he won't revive the modkill argument but I will.

Let's start modkilling inactives.

Plz.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 8:51 pm Every silence was actually thought through and made sense in the context of the day. Believing it to be the results of a random firing helped us immensely. I would not use that game mechanic in the future because it's really quite a nice way for scum to wifom the fuck out of useless night actions.

Dude you randomized the wolbre silence, you can't hide it. Quin even put it in blue.

That said, kudos to [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] for figuring out me and mac at the same time. Just need to work more on the part of persuading other civs. But yeah, you had the best scumdar of this game.

Glad dunya wasn't in the game then

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:57 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:52 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:46 pm Since I officially suck at Mafia now, please adjust your expectations accordingly in all future engagements.
Man that post I made about your playstyle change was sincere... I really do think you have had a change in playstyle lately and I'm not sure if it's helping you or not. I think you are way less willing to be called out as being wrong than before, and more winning to tunnel. And we noticed that and let you lead the town into oblivion over and over. That Jack lynch was particularly pitiful, I made the most half-assed excuse for voting for Jack anyone has even seen, and you went over it and didnt suspect me because I was agreeing with you.

Maybe you need a break, or maybe you should make a point not to try to be the town leader next game. It might open your senses a little. At least it worked for me last time I was on a bad streak.

No hard feelings, you're still one of my favorite players.
whoa look at mr smug mc smug over here.

I pmd quin and I was like dude DDL is soooo bad isn't he? now I know your scum meta.

I'm not trying to be smug honestly. Just adding some constructive criticism if I can.

Well bring it on.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:54 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:47 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:40 pm
Kaede Kayano: If Kayano is killed, she has a 25% chance of retaliating using the tentacles she injected within herself to take her killer with her.
I don't remember that happening in the anime. :0 wasn't that a different character
dude
wait for real? wasn't Kaede the one who baked all the cakes? the tentacles guy was the white haired guy who wasn't in this game......... did I forget something important to the plot

Yes you missed the biggest plot twist in manga/anime of that year.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:47 pm In the spectator chat I had two of the four: JJJ, Mac, Long Con, DDL. I don't understand why I was killed though, I was definitely considering Jay for a vote, not any of the ones who were actually bad. I knew Kyle was the 3P when my powers got unlocked right at the end. I tried to take him off the poll but I was blocked. Congrats baddies you played a good game! Thank you Quin it was a lot of fun except we sucked, lol!

At this point it was process of elimination. We almost went for kyle but then I went "no wait kyle is baiting" and changed to you. Everyone else was somewhat easy to lynch.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:46 pm Since I officially suck at Mafia now, please adjust your expectations accordingly in all future engagements.

Man that post I made about your playstyle change was sincere... I really do think you have had a change in playstyle lately and I'm not sure if it's helping you or not. I think you are way less willing to be called out as being wrong than before, and more winning to tunnel. And we noticed that and let you lead the town into oblivion over and over. That Jack lynch was particularly pitiful, I made the most half-assed excuse for voting for Jack anyone has even seen, and you went over it and didnt suspect me because I was agreeing with you.

Maybe you need a break, or maybe you should make a point not to try to be the town leader next game. It might open your senses a little. At least it worked for me last time I was on a bad streak.

No hard feelings, you're still one of my favorite players.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:44 pm did anyone suspect I was octo-dad

I thought it was LC for that rainbow where he put Korosensei on top.

I also thought you were baiting us to kill you but I thought you were Nagisa and had some kill defense, which made sense because we had a special anti-Nagisa killl.

Turns out you were actually baiting us to kill for for a different reason I guess.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:42 pm being scum with MacD is like one of the best experiences in the world. I've never experienced it yet, but one can dream.

It's awesome. Though you have to get used to the fact he'll say "kill Sig" when the night starts, go to sleep when you are waking up, disappear for the rest of the night and leave you wondering what he was thinking when he told you to do that.

I still don't know, but hey it worked.

Awesome! Thanks for the game Quin, pretty good one.

Nice to win this, it's not my first win as a baddie in this site but it's the first one where I made it to the endgame (in the first one I was lynched on day 2 and was used for bussing). I'm really happy for it because my scum game used to be atrocious until about a a year ago, and since then I've been making an effort to improve it. I'd seen some results in my other home site, but succeeding as scum in the Syndicate was my ultimate test, since civ play here is a level above imo.

Thanks to my teammates for this, you guys were awesome. And for the civs to endure the torture we submitted you for two weeks, lol.

linki: holy shit lots of posts

Are there even 4 inactives? We lynched all of them.

Godanmit

Ok Im busy so I cant be till the end

Gonna vote penny to help with the consensus block.

[VOTE: pennywise] aubergine

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:32 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:29 pm Sorry misclicked the submit button.

I don't trust any of those three. I can vote for Pennywise I guess.

Are you sure you don't think Marmot can be connected to others, Jay?
Not sure, no. You're right that his way of playing lends itself to difficulty reading interactions. I also think he's the most likely to be unlynchable if he is mafia though, unless it's just Pennywise -- but I have him chalked up for silencer.

One thing I disagree about is the complete absence of a Marmot/nova interaction. I think evil teammates tend to say at least something between them. They're both crickets about each other. There's no distancing or defending or anything, just a haunting breeze.

Have you seen the connections I drew among the three above? Do you disagree with anything I said?

Yes I have. I mostly skimmed tbh since I had 7 pages to catch up, but I agrreed with what I saw.

As for the nova/Marmot thing. I dunno, I have a counter example. There was a game I played where DF was bad with someone and he avoided mentioning that person at all until they got lynched, when he was like "good job lynching them, town". We promptly lynched DF for it.

This kind of thing doesn't follow a formula.

Yeah guys sorry but this "who would I lose to" logic is counter productive.

Let's focus on winning first and honor second please.

Sorry misclicked the submit button.

I don't trust any of those three. I can vote for Pennywise I guess.

Are you sure you don't think Marmot can be connected to others, Jay?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:19 pm Pennywise is a viable teammate of insertnamehere.

insertnamehere is a viable teammate of novaselinenever.

novaselinenever is a viable teammate of Pennywise.

Someone tell me why one of them shouldn't be lynched.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:14 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:08 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:05 pm [VOTE: DDL] aubergine

My gut tells me you're trying harder to defend yourself from being lynched than to find mafia.
Not sure if I agree, but at this point me being lynched would end the game, so why should I not be worried about that?
Lynching any civilian would end the game. Right?

I am the only civilian I am sure of.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:14 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:06 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:05 pm [VOTE: DDL] aubergine

My gut tells me you're trying harder to defend yourself from being lynched than to find mafia.
Do you think the things he just did in reference to you served as self-defense?
This post is what I'm refering to, his ISO of me. DDL's behavior today does not look sincere, as he started with a vote for me, before ISOing me as well as other players' mentions of me.

It's not a great case I know. But I do know I'm civilian, and well, I just can't justify DDL's efforts to get me lynched today.

I've been trying to get you lynched for three days. The ISO isn't to convince myself of that. I'm already convinced. My gut says you are bad. An ISO actually presents the danger of adding confirmation bias to it, so I wouldn't do it for that reason.

The ISO is to see if I can find teammate relationships for you. Because Jay challenged me to do that, and if I can't, then that means I should reconsider it. Furthermore, after trying to lynch you before and not succeeding, it's clear I need to make a bigger effort to convince others. I can pigback on others and talk about my gut or I can make a real case and actually get people to follow me. In GoC, I spent all game making gut posts and getting mostly ignored, and this game hasn't been much different. I like voting with my gut but that doesn't form actual wagons. So now I am making a real attempt at showing my weight and proving someone is bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:06 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:04 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 5:56 pm My team was Pennywise-INH-novaselinenever. Marmot could be a viable #4.

Concern: of those four, is any of them more likely to be unlynchable than Marmot?
I have no idea how to predict that.
We have no choice but to try. I think behavior under pressure can be indicative.

Hmm in that case I think Marmot hardly reacted to pressure, though now he is throwing an OMGUS vote so there's that. Nova reacted strongly to pressure, so I guess he's less likely to be unlynchable. I can't recall INH being ever under real lynch pressure, and penny is penny.

Out of those four Marmot would be the most unlynchable I think, but I'm not sure. Not giving a shit is Marmot-like.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:05 pm [VOTE: DDL] aubergine

My gut tells me you're trying harder to defend yourself from being lynched than to find mafia.

Not sure if I agree, but at this point me being lynched would end the game, so why should I not be worried about that?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 5:56 pm My team was Pennywise-INH-novaselinenever. Marmot could be a viable #4.

Concern: of those four, is any of them more likely to be unlynchable than Marmot?

I have no idea how to predict that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 5:54 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 5:49 pm I think I'm staying on Marmot unless I really need to save myself at the EoD.
What happens if the Marmot wagon isn't sticking and you have no votes?

In that case I am also likely to change to one of the leading wagons. Throwing my vote out makes it easier for the baddies to control the poll.

I think I'm staying on Marmot unless I really need to save myself at the EoD.

Relevant posts about other people about Marmot.

I'll try to keep this succint. Skipping most rainbows and salads because they rarely mean that much.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 9:34 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 9:22 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 7:46 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 7:42 pm Who is we lynchin INH?
Dunno. I utterly suck at early-game read divination, so I plan on following people I think seem like gen-u-ine townies. I've been getting good vibes from you, JJJ, and Dys. Someone not checking their role PM before posting would draw my ire if it was anyone other than Scotty.
Does that ire correlate to a vote?
I'm not gonna vote for Scotty because he did it, mainly due to Scotty's eccentricities. If another player did it, I'd cast an eye in their direction, but I don't don't know if I'd vote for them.

Is anyone particularly drawing your ire, Mr. Marmot? Oh, sorry, Mr. Marmot was your father.

Oh I missed this. The two are arguing about Scotty without necessarily attacking each other. Easy for teammates to make, maybe.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:32 am Marmot asked a single question in his eight posts of pertinence to making reads (about INH potentially voting Scotty). That's a civilian ratio for Marmot.

Even Jay's posts re:Marmot are jest.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:56 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:54 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:52 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:49 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:32 am Marmot asked a single question in his eight posts of pertinence to making reads (about INH potentially voting Scotty). That's a civilian ratio for Marmot.
JaggedJimmyJay called me a civilian for the most minimal of content ever offered in the history of Marmots.

Lynch this bear.
You always lament your lack of credit, but when you get it you get scared.
Your response made me laugh.

Damn, and I already voted for you and everything.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine
What a waste of time. This looks suspicious. Is this a joke vote? JJJ isn't getting lynched Day 1, what world do you think we're in?

Oh nice, this is real beef. Keep coming.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:57 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:54 am Your response made me laugh.

Damn, and I already voted for you and everything.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Anyway, your responses to me here are a more conclusive town look than the inquiry about INH's vote. So it's only going to get worse, Marmot. You're a civilian read. So scary.

Jay has him as a firm civ. Hmm...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 11:44 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 11:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 10:47 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 10:34 am I see a similar thing from JackofHearts2005. Why are your votes on him?
Of the people I designated as having no civilian credit, he's the one I'd least expect to see there.
Sure.

Comparatively, I don't understand why I received civilian credit from you when I did. If you were flavored skittle, you'd be a mandarin right about now. It feels like you're handing out credit rather carelessly.
Being careful on Day 1 is pointless.

And Marmot doesn't like it. Jay goes blunt-like. So far it seems easy for baddies to interact.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 6:58 pm Late day drive by off wagon day 1 Marmot vote

Nice to point it out, I guess.

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 3:08 pm I liked a post from Marmot regarding looking into the low posters early on in the game. While I fall into this group probably, I understand where his head is at and I understand why people want to lynch me for not voting and being awol early

Civ read. Looks good.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:54 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:54 am Let's skip all this petty nonsense, and you just give me my towncard, k?
This man is a civilian god damn it.

Jest.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 7:22 pm Hot potato Mac or Marmot.

Looks good but... a hot potato on two people isn't exactly efficient. And this never builds again.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 1:28 pm Marmot's vote also sucks, though in a more traditional sense.

Okay remember that thing we said about smileys earlier? Yeah.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 4:57 pm My suspicion of Marmot is pure gut. The worst I can say about his content specifically is that his votes are hard to buy. I don't remember all of them if they weren't tagged, but at a glance I see these:

Dyslexicon
JaggedJimmyJay
Jackofhearts2005
Marmot himself

Tinfoil galore and the token self-vote. Meh.

Meh.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 5:13 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 4:57 pm My suspicion of Marmot is pure gut. The worst I can say about his content specifically is that his votes are hard to buy. I don't remember all of them if they weren't tagged, but at a glance I see these:

Dyslexicon
JaggedJimmyJay
Jackofhearts2005
Marmot himself

Tinfoil galore and the token self-vote. Meh.
Not to mention ... EPI NOT KILLED NIGHT 1.

Marmot definitely bad.

why

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 8:46 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 8:45 pm why did we not lynch epi?
Why should we?

Easy interaction to make.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 11:58 pm How did Marmot handle Epignosis?

Spoiler: show

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:39 am One thing's for sure. Probably. I doubt that Epignosis is scum and JaggedJimmyJay is civilian.
K. This is a stance emerging from the Epi/JJJ fight. I don't know why he felt this way, but it's there.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:44 am I'm having flashbacks of Epignosis vs Sloonei in Lord of the Rings Mafia. They were both mafia in that game.
Well there's a thing. I'll try to glance at that reference to see if I believe Marmot's comparison is authentic.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:57 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:53 am Epi is bad. I dunno if Jay is bad too but Epi hounded Jay straight out of the gates for reasons he can't remember and punctuation and seems more interested in trolling Jay than finding bad guys. His gimmick this time was meh as fuck and I bet he did it to play to his meta. I don't know how anyone can think he comes out of that interaction looking good.

They both softly prodded each other and then it predictably turned into a full blow up. They both look worse for it but Epi is just straight up talking shit.

Lynch Epi.
And here I was thinking the opposite. Why would Epi pick a fight with Jay Night 1 if he was mafia and Jay wasn't?
I don't understand why a Syndicate veteran asks this question about Epignosis. The guy is clearly not afraid of picking a fight with [insert any player here].

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 8:45 pm why did we not lynch epi?
Marmot wanted Epi lynched while he was silenced. To be fair, he lost an entire day to talk about his feelings. I don't care for it being treated like an obvious move though, similarly to Jack's post-lynch lamentations.

~~~~~

He's Marmot. I have some mild suspicion. Reminder to self to check LOTR connection he drew.

Well we all do don't we.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 4:05 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 11:41 am Ganondorf is in this game?
ganondorf is in every game

Is it just me or this is the first time they ever interact?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 5:06 pm DDL why did you vote for Marmot? Is that one of those teammate distance for cred votes that never get you cred but instead get you lynched for not having the balls to vote on wagon?

Marmot why are you here?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 5:12 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 5:09 pm Mac godanmit you can't attack me for voting for Marmot and attack Marmot in the same post.

What is your stance on Marmot anyway?
What? Of course I can. Either or both of you could be bad? What kind of bullshit logic is this?

I agree with your read but I don't see him as vote worthy yet.

Some shit throwing while still attacking me for attacking Marmot. Then saying he agrees with me but not voting for him.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:51 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:49 pm I'm gonna be gone pretty much the entire day phase.

I'm gonna follow Jay's vote, because I don't know what else to do, nor do I have time to make another decision.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine
Do you trust me, Marmot?

Marmot starts shereping on Jay and Jay is pinfy about it, understandably.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 6:50 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 6:49 pm Guys what is your take on Marmot?
I don't like his blind faith in JJJ and his cop-out vote for me.

INH really did avoid replying to Marmot, instead he smeared about him to me. Which looks good for INH in terms of teammates. INH can be bad and Marmot civ, but I don't see the baddie duo doing this.

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 6:49 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 6:47 pm Haha wolbre my boy, there are four mafia members so you’re going to need some more.
JJJ
Penny
Nova
Marmot

There's my GTH scum team

Marmot-Wolbre was wifom-y. Wobre-Marmot is... also wifom-y.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 7:53 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 7:51 pm I understand why I am in this position though. There's no reason to trust me at all beyond vague shit like "tone", and I wouldn't figure anyone would care about that in my case specifically under these conditions.

So the people who are giving me a pass are hard to take seriously. Long Con, DDL, and Mac have not wavered in their trust of me despite my continued pants-on-head failure in this game. I'd figure on two evil-doers in that group at this point.
Don't forget Marmot, who blindly voted for me yesterday solely to follow you.

More smearing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 8:01 pm True, INH.

Of the "trusts JJJ" clan I trust DDL and Marmot the least.

Mac and I at least have mind melds which have gone both directions and from both origins (we've each shared perspectives which started with the other guy). I have no idea why DDL trusts me. I have a suspicion why LC trusts me. Marmot literally never trusts me, so this is a bizarre time to start.

Good point.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:23 pm [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Would also entertain a Marmot vote.

I'm going to read some potential teammate combinations.

Would entertain, but still voting someone else.

Ok I'm skipping the "why he is a civ" ones because they are a little forced anyway and I don't have all day.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:04 am The Marmot Fables

Chapter 1. Marmot Distances a Civ Wagon

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 10:32 am What are the reasons for voting Avito? I read his iso. He comes across as brusque, and hasn't posted anything on topic, aaaaand that's all I've got.
Chapter 2 - Marmot ... Distances Another Civ Wagon

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 10:34 am I see a similar thing from JackofHearts2005. Why are your votes on him?

But I feel good that the votes are on players with minimal to no content, rather than someone with high content who made one "disgusting" post.
Chapter 3 - The Betrayal of the Marmot

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 11:38 am I'll bite though.

[VOTE: JackofHearts2005] aubergine
Chapter 4 - The Agent of Chaos: In which the Marmot was just needling the King of Fuck Mountain on Day 1 and totally not trying to get him lynched LOL as if, oh and LOLs to really make it seem jokesey.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 1:30 pm (I'm just giving Jay a hard time, I think he's town)

The rest of you on the other hand, should be lynched carelessly.
Chapter 5 - The Meta: In which the Marmot remembers that he has to self vote or else people might get suspicious.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 6:50 pm Not caught up at all, so I'm voting off-wagon on myself, whIle sitting on a toilet in a coffee shop.
______________________________________________________

Look imma call it here. This guy has to be today's lynch. There is no reason to civ read him. Everyone read his ISO and see for yourself. It's shit. He defends confirmed civ wagons for no reason. Spends the most energy he has spent in the entire game on defending himself from a wagon that didn't get close to taking off. "Tried to lynch Epi' with the lowest effort ever, like as if he was ever going to achieve his JJJ or Epi wagons. He has faked the suspicion of those two players in particular BECAUSE he knows he won't have to answer for them because they will never get fucking lynched.

Marmot bad. Lynch.

Oh now this is real beef. I like it. I'll skip the following posts.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:51 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:46 am Hey guys, I bet I'm gonna get lynched after many, many hours of wonderful speculation and analysis.
or if you're good you could just like.... jump in and get involved in the wild deluge of speculation that's taking place

Mention by Kyle of Marmot #2. Yay! Not really assertive tho.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 11:50 am @Marmot who's do you think should be lynched today

More engagement.

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 3:46 pm I think based on your analysis I can fully say Marmot is not scum, his interactions just aren't strong enough with anyone :/

I have the opposite view on this. No interaction = teammates.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:09 pm the situation for us right now is that any wrong move will probably end the game and make us lose in the most embarrassing way possible and we all look like idiots

situation for the mafia is that a wrong move for the civs means victory for them but a right move for the civs only means that they have to stick it out for like... another phase or two.

Marmot so far looks more like the latter than the former.

Some smearing that is easy to miss.

Ok I probably skipped a bunch but this is a long game and I think I caught the juicy stuff.

Jay: still a lot of interaction. Some of it feels forced, but isn't enough to change the fact I think this is too much interaction for teammates.
INH: unlikely. INH wants Marmot dead. He smears Marmot to other people, instead of interacting with him.
LC: there was real beef early, but it never kept coming. Meh.
Kyle: mostly avoided him all game, made some non-commital posts near the end.
Mac: wants him dead. Which looks good.
Penny: zzzzz
Wolbre: early civ read which looks honest, but then forgets about him except for placement on rainbows and salads. meh.
nova: I had to double check this. nova avoids mentioning the word "Marmot" like it's cursed. Insert siren here.

Ok the problem here is that people's mentions of Marmot aren't much more rich than Marmot's mentions of people. Of those I can exclude Jay and INH I think. Mac reads him bad too but Mac is so aggressive normally this could be bussing, and some posts re:Marmot by Mac pinged me and felt forced, so I'm afraid to call this a definite "no". Kyle and nova look the most likely teammates, due to absence of comment. Wolbre, LC and Penny are also likely for the same reason.

So we have 5, maybe 6 people who could be teammates with Marmot. It's easy to be teammates with Marmot.

No, I'm not gonna analyse all their permutations because with 5-6 people there's gotta be a bunch of possible ones.

The last post was gonna have a title but it vanished. This is the list of relevant posts about other people by Marmot. The inverse is incoming.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:49 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:32 am Marmot asked a single question in his eight posts of pertinence to making reads (about INH potentially voting Scotty). That's a civilian ratio for Marmot.
JaggedJimmyJay called me a civilian for the most minimal of content ever offered in the history of Marmots.

Lynch this bear.

Jest-like post. If they are both bad it's easy to make.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:54 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:52 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:49 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 9:32 am Marmot asked a single question in his eight posts of pertinence to making reads (about INH potentially voting Scotty). That's a civilian ratio for Marmot.
JaggedJimmyJay called me a civilian for the most minimal of content ever offered in the history of Marmots.

Lynch this bear.
You always lament your lack of credit, but when you get it you get scared.
Your response made me laugh.

Damn, and I already voted for you and everything.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Still jest sounding, but now it becomes a vote.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 11:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 10:47 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 10:34 am I see a similar thing from JackofHearts2005. Why are your votes on him?
Of the people I designated as having no civilian credit, he's the one I'd least expect to see there.
Sure.

Comparatively, I don't understand why I received civilian credit from you when I did. If you were flavored skittle, you'd be a mandarin right about now. It feels like you're handing out credit rather carelessly.

Now this looks like actual suspicion. I like it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 1:30 pm (I'm just giving Jay a hard time, I think he's town)

The rest of you on the other hand, should be lynched carelessly.

Wait what?

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:46 am I hope Long Con is lynched so he doesn't vote for me again tomorrow.

More jest. Meh.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:39 am One thing's for sure. Probably. I doubt that Epignosis is scum and JaggedJimmyJay is civilian.

Ok if he is bad he knows Epi is a civ so this is completely meaningless. Shit throwing.

Then it's nothing but Epi for a long time. Then Epi dies and it's nothing at all for a long time.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 6:44 pm [VOTE: Pennywise] aubergine in solidarity with Jack.

Lazy reason for voting but that has been Marmot's MO. Looks good for Penny if Marmot is bad.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 6:47 pm I have a soft spot in my heart for victims of Jay's wrath.

Polite reminder that he still dislikes Jay.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 8:18 pm Let's make it happen Long Con.

Buddying with LC to get juliets lynched. Could be teammates or not. It's obvious if teammates, but Marmot can do obvious. If not it's just opportunistic.

Then more Jay shit throwing I won't quote because we have enough of that already.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:49 pm I'm gonna be gone pretty much the entire day phase.

I'm gonna follow Jay's vote, because I don't know what else to do, nor do I have time to make another decision.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 9:04 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:51 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:49 pm I'm gonna be gone pretty much the entire day phase.

I'm gonna follow Jay's vote, because I don't know what else to do, nor do I have time to make another decision.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine
Do you trust me, Marmot?
I haven't given this game enough attention to trust anyone.

But you've been the most vocal, and there's no point in me getting my tinfoil hat out right now, so I'm going to follow your vote.

Wait what? [2]

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 2:55 am
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 9:05 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 9:04 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:51 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 8:49 pm I'm gonna be gone pretty much the entire day phase.

I'm gonna follow Jay's vote, because I don't know what else to do, nor do I have time to make another decision.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine
Do you trust me, Marmot?
I haven't given this game enough attention to trust anyone.

But you've been the most vocal, and there's no point in me getting my tinfoil hat out right now, so I'm going to follow your vote.
I've read roughly 10 pages of this game, and even I realize that this is a little bit ridiculous.
What is "this" that is a little bit ridiculous?

Now it's INH having a beef with him. Marmot answers and expects a reply. Teammates less likely.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:57 am Ooh fun! I'll play.

Long Con
wolbre04

I don't recall any interaction with Wolbre. I recall some buddying with LC so at least the later is consistent. This is so WIFOM-y I could easily see a teammate here. Too are less likely.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:08 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 am Answer me this:

If you were a Mafia on a day like today how would you play it?
Ask questions like this.

This is jest-y but stingy. Then again easy for baddies to make and he hasn't interacted with Mac all game.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:18 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:16 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:57 am Long Con
wolbre04
Thanks. Who is your biggest suspect?
JaggedJimmyJay

Back to red.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 4:02 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:26 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:23 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 12:16 pm @Marmot what do you make of Jay's activity rush last night that he made while on his irl deathbed cus of allergies? does bad Jay do all of that?
That's excellent intuition Kylemii. I no longer think Jay's a good place to start.

Linki: Ooooh that's hot!
You have a well-oiled machine of effort and dignity happening all around you in this thread, but you haven't the heart to pick up a shovel and help us. Why Marmot?
Lylo kinda snuck up on me, and I didn't expect to be alive in two different games in similar situations. I've also got work to do today, and a volunteer event to attend this afternoon, and a men's group to attend this evening. I just don't have the gumption right now, and I apologize to everyone for letting y'all down.

Understandable, bro. I hope you don't take this badly then, cuz I still think you got a baddie role card.

Ok so partial conclusions:

Jay: no way. A baddie doesn't produce this much interaction with a teammate. On the contrary, it's easy for bad Marmot to latch into Jay like this and flip-flop all game, so he doesn't spend time talking about anyone else.
Pennywise: a little unlikely, but heck, penny is easy to sacrifice.
INH: got some beef here. Still need to see the INH side to see if he ever made another post.
LC: there is some stuff that feels like the forced interactions I just described about Marmot/Jay but it's way less so it could easily be bad/bad. Hard to be conclusive.
Mac: one post, one attack, never mentions before or after. Can be bad/bad ignoring each other and then throwing some quick shade, but its so little its easy for it to be just a lazy post from Marmot.
wolbre: he adds him as his biggest civ read once with no mention. WIFOM-y.
Kyle: nothing. Which doesn't look good for kyle.
nova: nothing. Which doesn't look good for nova.

Ok I'll try to ISO Marmot and look for people's mentions of him.

Somehow I skipped LC

LC: his reaction to being mislynched was genuine looking. He is not super tryhard this game but it's consistent with his recent assessment in an other game that he doesn't feel good about his skill anymore.

a little convincing

Ok.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 3:26 pm Ok caught up finally

I'm gonna try that "why they are a civ" game, though I don't know if you guys are still doing that too?

WHY ARE THEY A CIV?

DDL: towniest town in town
INH: his reason for disappearing is genuine. Also I think the ones who have attacked him the most recently were Wolbre and Marmot and I suspect both.
Jay: I just made a big post about it
Kyle: early Kyle did jack shit, late Kyle has been seriously trying. This is meta consistent with all the civ Kyle games I've played with, and overall he's saying a lot of stuff that I agree with.
Mac: he's all over the place and changing accusations fast, and he is usually like that I think? He's been very agreeable with me in this game, which is not what I used to, but may be a matter of perspective since we fought badly last game.
Marmot: there was one phase, (forgot which one) where he made some very civ looking posts
nova: his points on Avito made sense and looked sincere, even if they were ultimately wrong. I hate his OMGUS on me on a personal level but it totally makes sense for a civ to act like that
Pennywise: eh... 5/9 is higher than 50%?
wolbre4: he's trying hard. I like that

DDL: still towniest town in town.
INH: not convincing
Jay: convincing
Kyle: convincing
Mac: a little convincing
Marmot: not convincing
nova: convincing
Pennywise: not convincing
wolbre: a little conv9incing

Like the thing you need to understand about Marmot is that he never tries hard, no matter his alignment. It's useless to try to extract tryhard civ play from him. But sometimes, when he is a civ, he shows that he cares. He asks hard questions and he makes points that other people haven't notice. Civ Marmot isn't a civ leader, but he makes some tricky posts, some posts that make people unconfortable which is good because civs need to be knocked out of their confort zone.

Baddie Marmot doesn't make those tricky posts. He is harmless. His accusations hold no weight. It's not for the fluff you need to judge him, it's for the attempts to move the game somewhere, and when he is bad, those attempts are just not strong.

This game feels more like the later than the former. Now I have read Marmot as bad wrongly before, so I could still be wrong, but I've never once misread him when I read him as a civ. This game though, I'm not reading his as a civ at all.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 3:13 pm JJJ
~ Kyle
~ Mac

Mac
~ JJJ
~ wolbre

LC
~ JJJ
~ Kyle
~ Mac

Kyle
~ LC
~ Mac

wolbre
~ Mac
~ Kyle

Marmot
~ LC
~ wolbre

DDL
~ Kyle
~ JJJ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The purpose of my "name 2 civilian reads" thing was to generate a cooperate POE pool of a sort. The following names appeared most often:

Kyle - 4
Mac - 4
JJJ - 3 (2 if you don't include LC's pick which was implied)
LC - 2
wolbre - 2

Every player who was named appears at least twice. I am eliminating them from today's pool. I think you should too, though you're welcome to make an exception here or there if you think you absolutely must. For example, I am not sure LC should be removed, but this has to be a team effort so I am doing it at least for now.

Removing these names left me with the others I have just finished assessing for all possible two-way interactions. It's a ham-fisted POE, but I think it can work.

Ok.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

After all this catching up I still wanna lynch Wolbre or Marmot. Wolbre for a series of posts I didn't like, Marmot for not having a series of posts I liked. I said before he made some civ looking posts in one phase, but then he disappeared. Usually I am good at detecting civ Marmot. I'm just not seeing it this game. He's phoning it in.

So if we won't lynch Wolbre, I'm going with Marmot now.

Iirc the next step is to collect these lists and ask people what civ reads they were less sure about, right? Are we still gonna do that?

Ok caught up finally

I'm gonna try that "why they are a civ" game, though I don't know if you guys are still doing that too?

WHY ARE THEY A CIV?

DDL: towniest town in town
INH: his reason for disappearing is genuine. Also I think the ones who have attacked him the most recently were Wolbre and Marmot and I suspect both.
Jay: I just made a big post about it
Kyle: early Kyle did jack shit, late Kyle has been seriously trying. This is meta consistent with all the civ Kyle games I've played with, and overall he's saying a lot of stuff that I agree with.
Mac: he's all over the place and changing accusations fast, and he is usually like that I think? He's been very agreeable with me in this game, which is not what I used to, but may be a matter of perspective since we fought badly last game.
Marmot: there was one phase, (forgot which one) where he made some very civ looking posts
nova: his points on Avito made sense and looked sincere, even if they were ultimately wrong. I hate his OMGUS on me on a personal level but it totally makes sense for a civ to act like that
Pennywise: eh... 5/9 is higher than 50%?
wolbre4: he's trying hard. I like that

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:52 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:48 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:47 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:42 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:40 pm Jay given you've voted him perhaps you will do better at seeing if there are any logical teammates for him. I couldn't see any.
Pennywise. Look at DDL's effort to orient toward an inactive lynch of Dom specifically. Even my wrong ass did think Dom was an ideal first choice given his long-established history of low posting.
I just scanned his ISO for Pennywise and he has soooo much content about and with Pennywise. I wouldn't think he would engage with and talk about a teammate that much.
Why not?
I just don't think scum do that? I think there is more evidence to suggest scum teammates avoid each other in thread than there is to suggest they stage these choreographed debates of distancing amazement that people think they do.

Also this particular brand looks all very trustworthy. Read it yourself and find me some Pennywise content in his ISO that looks bad?

Actually I've been wanting to talk about Penny for months since I realized he was so similar to Marmot and I wanted everyone to know that.

Also I've been trying to get him to play a game here for months and I was excited for introducing my wacky friend to my other friends here.

Yes I'm weird.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:51 pm Either way, something you said does give me an idea Mac. It is going to be difficult given the time constraints in 24/24, but we have nothing better to try as far as I can see.

First, everyone needs to select the two players you think are LEAST likely to be mafia members. Please respond quickly. Don't include yourselves.

Kylemii
MacDougall

Kylemii
Jay

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:42 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:40 pm Jay given you've voted him perhaps you will do better at seeing if there are any logical teammates for him. I couldn't see any.
Pennywise. Look at DDL's effort to orient toward an inactive lynch of Dom specifically. Even my wrong ass did think Dom was an ideal first choice given his long-established history of low posting.

This is wrong.

I voted for Dom at first. Then I changed to Pennywise. Then I stayed on Penny all day until I checked the poll at the end of the day, saw Dom had 6 votes and went back to help the vote block. I actually preferred to lynch Penny than Dom because I didn't like how fast the Dom wagon formed early, with 5 people.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:38 pm That DDL post Mac just posted is waffles galore.

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

Honestly I don't see any other way I could be in this game right now other than waffling on people. I just don't have any sure reads. There are some people I like more, some people I like less.

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