Inception [END]

[sprityo]

Is evenstar tunneling do hard that she hasn’t acknowledged my entire reason for voting her?

To dismiss 4/5 people as “four people I’ve never played before voting for me” is a quick way to just say “these people don’t know me so how could they form an opinion?”

But I don’t even think she’s acknowledged MY posts directly

[sprityo]

I can’t speak for everyone but perhaps explaining your actions instead of just pushing them is a better idea

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall are you still here? thoughts on epi? you are less eager to hand him a townread than I am so convince me I shouldn't?

He's a black hole to me. In a game of 30 I feel like the Epi nut is probably not what to crack on day 1 anyway.

Also I can't remember a time when Epi endgamed as town so he's likely to self solve if he's bad. If he's around after day 5 just resolve him. Seems boring I know.

Come to think of it I have played in an insanely small amount of games where Epi was mafia. It's quite incredible and I never realised it before. If it's any at all it's like 1 or 2. I've also never teamed with him. So I have never really had a good bearing on his scum game.

[MacDougall]

Do you guys really want to lynch Epi though.

well mac did rant about how good a scum player he is i think...? if im recalling correctly

He's just a good player in general. He's our all time wins leader. He's almost always killed by the scum when he's town and his scumteams rarely ever lose.

[MacDougall]

dude you should've seen Eva yesterday acting like nut town was the most obvious read in the game

and now one of llds alter egos telling her to vote there gets the vote?? with lld being hardly engaged?

Jesus

it's not wolfy but it's lmfao

Good God. I think I'm just gonna locktown read you and swallow all the tinfoil at this point.

This defeated reaction is identical to how she reacted to me (who she was townreading) when I wasn't vibing with her in the finale. She never did that in the WC. She was like a ball of irrational confidence. I think the vulnerability is a purely town trait. I base this on two games of meta. I am Godmac.

[iaafr]

yea yea evas town get michelle

[iaafr]

nanook and 112 are probably also scum together

[iaafr]

also hows texas claim a mindmeld with nanook and then vote on the other side of the nutella eva dichotomy

which is probably town/town

theyre all scum

112/nanook/texas/michelle

i got 4 of em im satisfied with my d1

[juliets]

also juliets making a wallpost on tsp and apparently taking multiple posts seriously is legitimately scummy, so says my intuition

I have to agree with this. That long post I just read did not sound like a civilian juliets.

Epi, are you saying you agree that I should have seen his jokes as jokes or is there something else that bothers you?

Your tone felt far more accusatory than I would have expected from you Day 1. That's all. I was taken aback.

Ok, appreciate the response. I think that comes from not feeling like I've been accusatory enough when it comes to reads but it's just not my style - I should just stay in my lane.

is this some kind of backhanded AtE or just plain old self-deprecation I actually can't tell

No AtE and no self deprecation. I didn't mean staying in my lane as something negative.

[juliets]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

[juliets]

Read of Michelle - lean town.

I like the way Michelle asks lots of questions and offers opinions whenever she's on. There is not much fluff in her ISO, barely any as a matter of fact. She sticks to business. I like her pushes on Rej who has not had much to say so far. I think I mentioned I just played a game with Michelle where we both were scum and she wasn't present in the thread like she has been here. There is one post of hers that I didn't agree with so I need to go back and re-look at the situation. It was when Eva made a post and Michelle called it juicy in a scum way. I'll take another look a little later.

[TonyStarkPrime]

gth reads based on mac's exercise:

TSP: Fluff. If scum, probably buddying m the elephant. He's got a lot of posts yet so many of them seem to be tiptoeing around the events of the thread without dedicating himself to anything. Scum.

I’d I had to make a two sentence meta reliant defense for why I’m town it’d be pretty much this.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@Epignosis , why is Tony Stark lynch fodder? Is that just based on this gam? Or is he a common mislynch?

I do agree that that type of style is an easy push for the wolves if he's town. But I just can't ignore my strongest intuition atm. He's too pedestrian and blendy to not be a wagon today.

Sorry, that should read: why is he MISlynch fodder

I am very blendy but THERE ARE 30 PEOPLE
Someone pick a fight with me I’ll stop being blendy
Actually I’ll pick a fight just give me a second

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spoiler: show

I am helping explain to Dom that Elephant is an elephant so that he becomes aware that elephant is an elephant because that’s information that is hard to gather.

Good to know I almost thought that Elephant is a fairy.
Really?? Except the wifom, do you have any slight idea about his alignament?

strange interaction imo

I asked his oppinion not yours but since you felt the need to come inside, what do you think about Elephant, TSP and me?

I don't feel particularly good about any of you- and feel probably worst about Tony right now.

But I think the best vote is [VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

why is him the best vote? Mind elaborate?

I read a couple of his posts this morning (actually 10:30pm here but i just woke up), and they seemed insincere. He was conscious of being lazy with one post but downplayed the laziness in a way that made me feel he was too conscious of how he's coming across.

I mean I just did that again so go have a field day

[TonyStarkPrime]

Alright I have 15 minutes so I’ll do what Epi did except on my phone so it’ll just go real well

[Elephant]

i read you wrong d1 of wc1 too

anyway im over the nutella read

i read hyena's iso and i dont love it and there are a few scummy points

like trying to signal that he needs to interact more with mac before he can develop a read (recently played against a scum who insisted he needed more realtime interaction)
kinda high fluff interaction ratio and his pushes are a bit strange

so something like dragomir/hyena/112 now

still feel 112 is posturey after all and not actually that towny?

i mean theyre promising big so im waiting on the delivery

i like the thought here. drago/hyena aren't terrible picks- as in i can see why you'd have them there, particularly drago. but they're also on the borderline between being good reads for a civilian to push and good reads for a wolf to push if that makes sense. i know you're wrong about me, so that gives me additional pause here.

in the game i remember playing with you, i had a strong and confident town-read on you right up until i was mislynched with you on the wagon. i'm not feeling as confident as i am in you as i was then, and you going back and forth on your read on me--and notably changing it after being called on a potential pocket attempt--makes me wonder.

This is the only literate post of 112 to date, I believe, and it stays fairly non-committal.

@112 , I would like to know your opinion on Benson, Master Radishes, iaafr, nutella, and Epignosis. What are their alignments, and how are they connected?

@112

they're probably all town and connected by the interconnectivity of the universe.

[VOTE: 112] aubergine
It probably comes as no surprise to you that I am not particularly happy with the level of thought that you display in this answer.

idgaf

I mistakenly failed to update the poll.

[TonyStarkPrime]

112 - lean scum, not getting much of a feel on posts either way but follows scum patterns
Benson - null
Creature - ehhhhh
DFaraday - well he commented once on something I said so therefore Town
Dom - null but GTH town
Dragomir - lean scum but on activity not posts independently
Elephant - town
Epignosis - probably town, -EV Lynch otherwise
Evenstar - null. Come at me.
Hyena - lean town, I like the style of their posts
iaafr - Town solely off the “most towny” activity. Establishing a towncore early is a huge detriment to scum who would want to actively work against that goal.
Jackofhearts2005 - null
juliets - no reason not to be scum but again I’m still feeling Girl Genius so just be aware of my biases
Lady Lambdadelta - null but lean scum because they confuse me and that’s bad
Long Con - lean town, I like his posts
MacDougall - lean scum a little bit
Master Radishes - always gives me bad vibes but it could just be cause I don’t like radishes
Michelle - null
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - null but in a good way
novaselinenever - can be scum for all I care
nutella - probably town
Pawn Lelouch - no reason to townread here and I’m not trusting Eva. Scum.
Quin - null
Rej - scum but not a lot of content to get to that
Spiny Creature - Town
sprityo - lean town
Texas Cloverleaf - null
TonyStarkPrime
Trustworthy Liberal - null
vanity. - lean scum, I’m not getting any of the genuine defenses that others have put out


someone GTH me on two of my null reads and I’ll probably get back to you

[Elephant]

Lost my place.

I have been looking for a way to bookmark single posts, but failed to find one.

[Elephant]

112 - lean scum, not getting much of a feel on posts either way but follows scum patterns
Benson - null
Creature - ehhhhh
DFaraday - well he commented once on something I said so therefore Town
Dom - null but GTH town
Dragomir - lean scum but on activity not posts independently
Elephant - town
Epignosis - probably town, -EV Lynch otherwise
Evenstar - null. Come at me.
Hyena - lean town, I like the style of their posts
iaafr - Town solely off the “most towny” activity. Establishing a towncore early is a huge detriment to scum who would want to actively work against that goal.
Jackofhearts2005 - null
juliets - no reason not to be scum but again I’m still feeling Girl Genius so just be aware of my biases
Lady Lambdadelta - null but lean scum because they confuse me and that’s bad
Long Con - lean town, I like his posts
MacDougall - lean scum a little bit
Master Radishes - always gives me bad vibes but it could just be cause I don’t like radishes
Michelle - null
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - null but in a good way
novaselinenever - can be scum for all I care
nutella - probably town
Pawn Lelouch - no reason to townread here and I’m not trusting Eva. Scum.
Quin - null
Rej - scum but not a lot of content to get to that
Spiny Creature - Town
sprityo - lean town
Texas Cloverleaf - null
TonyStarkPrime
Trustworthy Liberal - null
vanity. - lean scum, I’m not getting any of the genuine defenses that others have put out


someone GTH me on two of my null reads and I’ll probably get back to you

GTH on Benson, JackOfHearts

[Elephant]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

[TonyStarkPrime]

Someone really familiar with TonyStark should give me a summary of how his current game compares to his town meta.

bump

I have such a gut suspicion that Tony is a wolf. Someone help me out.

Well I agree with you on that. So if you're asking for someone to help you out of the tunnel, afraid I can't help you there. Willing to give you another shovel to keep digging though.

Yes. More shovels please

For Benson this is a really interesting interaction. First glance I like it it’s a “I have a hypothesis help me get the evidence”. I don’t think mafia is so brazen about having a conclusion before they have evidence but I see town do that all the time. So GTH town on this.

[TonyStarkPrime]

For JOH there was a post he had which I really liked tonally, the one where he pointed out that I hadn’t reacted to his vote whereas last game him voting me was a main part of my scum case against me. It’s a very hesitant post, he doesn’t make a conclusions, he’s just putting info out there. I think that’s very in line with town JOH lategame who is great but always seems paranoid. Now this is day 1 but I’ll apply it backwards and GTH Jack town too.

If Jack is scum I’ll know by day 4.

[Elephant]

i see again the non read 'Elephant is elephant' care to explain TSP?

I am helping explain to Dom that Elephant is an elephant so that he becomes aware that elephant is an elephant because that’s information that is hard to gather.

Good to know I almost thought that Elephant is a fairy.
Really?? Except the wifom, do you have any slight idea about his alignament?

Spoiler: show

image.jpeg (40.48 KiB) Viewed 1519 times

https://www.redbubble.com/de/people/lor ... hant-fairy

[Elephant]

Thank you, Tony, your assessment matches my own impression of these players.

[juliets]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

This is something but I don’t know what it is


Juliets in any case if making very well done ISOs is out of character the solution is to start doing it more

[juliets]

Elephant - Null for now

Understood and identify with his reaction to getting a vote with no reason,, saying it says “I scum read this person, but I do not want to investigate them, engage them, or convince anyone else, and while I feel this scum read is important, I will not share my thought process”. That's exactly how I feel when I get a vote with no reasons attached.

Didn’t love the reason for his vote for Epi for “trying reverse psychology, and a revenge vote on Hyena”. The statement he labels reverse psychology sounds like normal Epi to me and Epi is no longer on Hyena so I don’t know if that will change Elephant’s mind or not.

There are a lot of posts about elephants and then also his misunderstanding (?) with Radish, neither of which do I see as AI. I need to see more content from Elephant before I’d be comfortable on making a call town or scum. I don't see any reason I need to make a decision on him today.

[Elephant]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

Thank you for your answer! I inquired about 112's vote at the time they made it, but they refused to elaborate, and no reasoning was given. I assumed that since they wouldn't share anything, they had nothing, and dismissed it.

[Elephant]

Elephant - Null for now

Understood and identify with his reaction to getting a vote with no reason,, saying it says “I scum read this person, but I do not want to investigate them, engage them, or convince anyone else, and while I feel this scum read is important, I will not share my thought process”. That's exactly how I feel when I get a vote with no reasons attached.

Didn’t love the reason for his vote for Epi for “trying reverse psychology, and a revenge vote on Hyena”. The statement he labels reverse psychology sounds like normal Epi to me and Epi is no longer on Hyena so I don’t know if that will change Elephant’s mind or not.

There are a lot of posts about elephants and then also his misunderstanding (?) with Radish, neither of which do I see as AI. I need to see more content from Elephant before I’d be comfortable on making a call town or scum. I don't see any reason I need to make a decision on him today.

Epignosis is an interesting topic. My vote was a policy vote at first, a double policy vote actually, for "lynch me" and OMGUS, but from then on I looked at Epignosis through the eye of "could this person be wolfing", and they seemed very evasive and keeping their thought processes hidden. I haven't read the resolution of the hyena issue, but those "linguistic details", which I also inquired about without receiving an answer, seemed like made-up "bull-shit" to produce a reaction of some kind. Is this Epignosis's usual modus operandi?

Do you have a read on Epignosis yourself? It appears that most Syndicate players won't consider him for a lynch, because they cannot tell his alignment. They fear lynching him as town is worse than keeping him alive as mafia.

[juliets]

Elephant - Null for now

Understood and identify with his reaction to getting a vote with no reason,, saying it says “I scum read this person, but I do not want to investigate them, engage them, or convince anyone else, and while I feel this scum read is important, I will not share my thought process”. That's exactly how I feel when I get a vote with no reasons attached.

Didn’t love the reason for his vote for Epi for “trying reverse psychology, and a revenge vote on Hyena”. The statement he labels reverse psychology sounds like normal Epi to me and Epi is no longer on Hyena so I don’t know if that will change Elephant’s mind or not.

There are a lot of posts about elephants and then also his misunderstanding (?) with Radish, neither of which do I see as AI. I need to see more content from Elephant before I’d be comfortable on making a call town or scum. I don't see any reason I need to make a decision on him today.

Epignosis is an interesting topic. My vote was a policy vote at first, a double policy vote actually, for "lynch me" and OMGUS, but from then on I looked at Epignosis through the eye of "could this person be wolfing", and they seemed very evasive and keeping their thought processes hidden. I haven't read the resolution of the hyena issue, but those "linguistic details", which I also inquired about without receiving an answer, seemed like made-up "bull-shit" to produce a reaction of some kind. Is this Epignosis's usual modus operandi?

Do you have a read on Epignosis yourself? It appears that most Syndicate players won't consider him for a lynch, because they cannot tell his alignment. They fear lynching him as town is worse than keeping him alive as mafia.

I do not yet have a read on Epi. He is tricky to read and has achieved much success with his scum game on this site. The thing is though, when he's town he is very good at identifying scum so to lynch him on day 1 without having clues to his alignment isn't usually a good idea.

[Elephant]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

I believe the questions you put to Tony in your ISO of him were worth asking. When I read a player, I try to determine their intentions: why did they write that? Would they have written that as town? as scum? The motivations for the points you observed were unclear, so it was good to ask about them. Tony answered you 25 minutes later, here. My impression is that he gives fairly townish motivations for the posts that pinged you. I did not see a reaction to Tony's reply in your ISO. Why did you not comment on his answer?

[juliets]

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention] - leaning town

I agreed with this opinion of iaafr when he wrote it but I really need to examine iaafr more closely at this point.

Spoiler: show

Mac

If you want a serious response, (a) screw you, and (b) iiafr is acting exactly as he did in spec chat, which makes me think it's his default setting.

Excuse me for my intervention but since then the spec chat attitude is giving meta for a player?

iiafr has a certain style od how he reads a game. I've not seen his scum game, but his reads in this game seem so similar to how he read the Champs games in spec chat that it makes me think it's coming from the same mindset (i.e. one without a scum agenda).

Master Radish is another one who saw iaafr's style as similar to his spec chat reads and since I agree I felt good about this read.

I felt the same way as MR about 5 TR's in a game of 30 not being high enough to spew someone town. (I do want to say however that [mention]Creature[/mention] does feel town to me. He does not like being bad and doesn't engage as much as he's doing in this game.)

I also agreed with this read on Jack (though after a number of people disagreed with MR he may have backed off this read. )

Spoiler: show

<snip>
Agree to disagree, I guess. I just would expect scum to say 'this is a bad case, Eva's reads are bad' but Jack went through and compared the charts and found the lack of connections and all that. I like it.

I've never played with Master Radish so I'm a little skittish about this read but as I read through his ISO I found myself agreeing with his thinking frequently. I did disagree with his take on sprityo but my view may be colored by the fact we do mislynch sprit way too often.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]boo[/mention] is replacing [mention]Spiny Creature[/mention]. Please don’t talk about replacements. Thank you.

[juliets]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

I believe the questions you put to Tony in your ISO of him were worth asking. When I read a player, I try to determine their intentions: why did they write that? Would they have written that as town? as scum? The motivations for the points you observed were unclear, so it was good to ask about them. Tony answered you 25 minutes later, here. My impression is that he gives fairly townish motivations for the posts that pinged you. I did not see a reaction to Tony's reply in your ISO. Why did you not comment on his answer?

I was embarrassed that I had viewed several of his posts as serious when they were really jokes so I didn't feel like there was a lot for me to say to him. I should have responded though, it's rude not to acknowledge that he took the time to answer. I'll go back and take another look at his reply when I'm finished with my group.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

I believe the questions you put to Tony in your ISO of him were worth asking. When I read a player, I try to determine their intentions: why did they write that? Would they have written that as town? as scum? The motivations for the points you observed were unclear, so it was good to ask about them. Tony answered you 25 minutes later, here. My impression is that he gives fairly townish motivations for the posts that pinged you. I did not see a reaction to Tony's reply in your ISO. Why did you not comment on his answer?

I was embarrassed that I had viewed several of his posts as serious when they were really jokes so I didn't feel like there was a lot for me to say to him. I should have responded though, it's rude not to acknowledge that he took the time to answer. I'll go back and take another look at his reply when I'm finished with my group.

okay I’ll call it town

[TonyStarkPrime]

Also Juliets is putting in solid work to analyze her group which could? Just be mafia doing the requisite steps but I see it as genuine

[Elephant]

Elephant - Null for now

Understood and identify with his reaction to getting a vote with no reason,, saying it says “I scum read this person, but I do not want to investigate them, engage them, or convince anyone else, and while I feel this scum read is important, I will not share my thought process”. That's exactly how I feel when I get a vote with no reasons attached.

Didn’t love the reason for his vote for Epi for “trying reverse psychology, and a revenge vote on Hyena”. The statement he labels reverse psychology sounds like normal Epi to me and Epi is no longer on Hyena so I don’t know if that will change Elephant’s mind or not.

There are a lot of posts about elephants and then also his misunderstanding (?) with Radish, neither of which do I see as AI. I need to see more content from Elephant before I’d be comfortable on making a call town or scum. I don't see any reason I need to make a decision on him today.

Epignosis is an interesting topic. My vote was a policy vote at first, a double policy vote actually, for "lynch me" and OMGUS, but from then on I looked at Epignosis through the eye of "could this person be wolfing", and they seemed very evasive and keeping their thought processes hidden. I haven't read the resolution of the hyena issue, but those "linguistic details", which I also inquired about without receiving an answer, seemed like made-up "bull-shit" to produce a reaction of some kind. Is this Epignosis's usual modus operandi?

Do you have a read on Epignosis yourself? It appears that most Syndicate players won't consider him for a lynch, because they cannot tell his alignment. They fear lynching him as town is worse than keeping him alive as mafia.

I do not yet have a read on Epi. He is tricky to read and has achieved much success with his scum game on this site. The thing is though, when he's town he is very good at identifying scum so to lynch him on day 1 without having clues to his alignment isn't usually a good idea.

I was referring to this:

So story time.

Once upon a time, I was The Syndicate Mafia Universe representative.

I called out a member of the mafia for using quite the same language Hyena has been using. The name was EngagedEnglish or EnglishEngine or something like that. I nailed him simply because of his words.

I backed off because he was a stranger to me, and I doubted myself. I was killed and the mafia won.

I'm not doing that again. Hyena is guilty. I see the same telltale linguistic tics.

What are these linguistic tics exactly?

Wouldn't you like to know?

Nobody is talking about what Hyena is doing here.

I don't care what Hyena does elsewhere. Talk about what he's doing here. Show me how he is a civilian.

I still believe lynching Hyena is the right move.

I'm bored with my Hyena vote anyway. [VOTE: Lady L.] aubergine

The "telltale linguistic tics" might exist, or they might not, and certainly Epignosis does not know whether Hyena displays these same tics when he is town-aligned. I think it's highly likely that this was a fake push. I can see this for Epignosis as mafia with the motive of testing whether Hyena is pushable. I can see this for Epignosis as town, trying to resolve whether Hyena has any associates, and if so, who they are. For Epignosis as both alignments, this is also a test of his authority: who will question his reasoning?
Juliets, in your experience, does Epignosis makes fake pushes like these as town? Or do you believe this was a real push?

I would like to see your take on this as well, [mention]nutella[/mention].

[juliets]

Elephant - Null for now

Understood and identify with his reaction to getting a vote with no reason,, saying it says “I scum read this person, but I do not want to investigate them, engage them, or convince anyone else, and while I feel this scum read is important, I will not share my thought process”. That's exactly how I feel when I get a vote with no reasons attached.

Didn’t love the reason for his vote for Epi for “trying reverse psychology, and a revenge vote on Hyena”. The statement he labels reverse psychology sounds like normal Epi to me and Epi is no longer on Hyena so I don’t know if that will change Elephant’s mind or not.

There are a lot of posts about elephants and then also his misunderstanding (?) with Radish, neither of which do I see as AI. I need to see more content from Elephant before I’d be comfortable on making a call town or scum. I don't see any reason I need to make a decision on him today.

Epignosis is an interesting topic. My vote was a policy vote at first, a double policy vote actually, for "lynch me" and OMGUS, but from then on I looked at Epignosis through the eye of "could this person be wolfing", and they seemed very evasive and keeping their thought processes hidden. I haven't read the resolution of the hyena issue, but those "linguistic details", which I also inquired about without receiving an answer, seemed like made-up "bull-shit" to produce a reaction of some kind. Is this Epignosis's usual modus operandi?

Do you have a read on Epignosis yourself? It appears that most Syndicate players won't consider him for a lynch, because they cannot tell his alignment. They fear lynching him as town is worse than keeping him alive as mafia.

I do not yet have a read on Epi. He is tricky to read and has achieved much success with his scum game on this site. The thing is though, when he's town he is very good at identifying scum so to lynch him on day 1 without having clues to his alignment isn't usually a good idea.

I was referring to this:

So story time.

Once upon a time, I was The Syndicate Mafia Universe representative.

I called out a member of the mafia for using quite the same language Hyena has been using. The name was EngagedEnglish or EnglishEngine or something like that. I nailed him simply because of his words.

I backed off because he was a stranger to me, and I doubted myself. I was killed and the mafia won.

I'm not doing that again. Hyena is guilty. I see the same telltale linguistic tics.

What are these linguistic tics exactly?

Wouldn't you like to know?

Nobody is talking about what Hyena is doing here.

I don't care what Hyena does elsewhere. Talk about what he's doing here. Show me how he is a civilian.

I still believe lynching Hyena is the right move.

I'm bored with my Hyena vote anyway. [VOTE: Lady L.] aubergine

The "telltale linguistic tics" might exist, or they might not, and certainly Epignosis does not know whether Hyena displays these same tics when he is town-aligned. I think it's highly likely that this was a fake push. I can see this for Epignosis as mafia with the motive of testing whether Hyena is pushable. I can see this for Epignosis as town, trying to resolve whether Hyena has any associates, and if so, who they are. For Epignosis as both alignments, this is also a test of his authority: who will question his reasoning?
Juliets, in your experience, does Epignosis makes fake pushes like these as town? Or do you believe this was a real push?

I would like to see your take on this as well, nutella.

Epi frequently refuses to explain the reasons he believes someone is scum like he did here. In this case if he is serious, he may feel that explaining the tells gives Hyena the opportunity to change those tics going forward. That brings us to the question as to whether he's serious. Is it a fake push? Very possible though I have seen Epi do that as both alignments unfortunately. He will do it as town to reaction test (there may be other reasons that nutella is aware of that I'm not).

From your standpoint though I totally understand the read, and a read on him that isn't colored by his complicated meta may be a better read than those of us who have played with him often.

[Elephant]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

I believe the questions you put to Tony in your ISO of him were worth asking. When I read a player, I try to determine their intentions: why did they write that? Would they have written that as town? as scum? The motivations for the points you observed were unclear, so it was good to ask about them. Tony answered you 25 minutes later, here. My impression is that he gives fairly townish motivations for the posts that pinged you. I did not see a reaction to Tony's reply in your ISO. Why did you not comment on his answer?

I was embarrassed that I had viewed several of his posts as serious when they were really jokes so I didn't feel like there was a lot for me to say to him. I should have responded though, it's rude not to acknowledge that he took the time to answer. I'll go back and take another look at his reply when I'm finished with my group.

I can certainly empathize with your feeling of embarrassment: you felt you were being more accusatory than you were comfortable with, and had been deflated. With a proper "accusatory" mindset, you would have realized that your questions were justified, and kept questioning some of the answers without embarrassment.
I see that you did not unvote Tony, and are still voting him. Why did you still scumread him after this answer?
You had been accused of being unusally accusatory; did that play a role in your decision not to double down?

[Elephant]

Elephant - Null for now

Understood and identify with his reaction to getting a vote with no reason,, saying it says “I scum read this person, but I do not want to investigate them, engage them, or convince anyone else, and while I feel this scum read is important, I will not share my thought process”. That's exactly how I feel when I get a vote with no reasons attached.

Didn’t love the reason for his vote for Epi for “trying reverse psychology, and a revenge vote on Hyena”. The statement he labels reverse psychology sounds like normal Epi to me and Epi is no longer on Hyena so I don’t know if that will change Elephant’s mind or not.

There are a lot of posts about elephants and then also his misunderstanding (?) with Radish, neither of which do I see as AI. I need to see more content from Elephant before I’d be comfortable on making a call town or scum. I don't see any reason I need to make a decision on him today.

Epignosis is an interesting topic. My vote was a policy vote at first, a double policy vote actually, for "lynch me" and OMGUS, but from then on I looked at Epignosis through the eye of "could this person be wolfing", and they seemed very evasive and keeping their thought processes hidden. I haven't read the resolution of the hyena issue, but those "linguistic details", which I also inquired about without receiving an answer, seemed like made-up "bull-shit" to produce a reaction of some kind. Is this Epignosis's usual modus operandi?

Do you have a read on Epignosis yourself? It appears that most Syndicate players won't consider him for a lynch, because they cannot tell his alignment. They fear lynching him as town is worse than keeping him alive as mafia.

I do not yet have a read on Epi. He is tricky to read and has achieved much success with his scum game on this site. The thing is though, when he's town he is very good at identifying scum so to lynch him on day 1 without having clues to his alignment isn't usually a good idea.

I was referring to this:

So story time.

Once upon a time, I was The Syndicate Mafia Universe representative.

I called out a member of the mafia for using quite the same language Hyena has been using. The name was EngagedEnglish or EnglishEngine or something like that. I nailed him simply because of his words.

I backed off because he was a stranger to me, and I doubted myself. I was killed and the mafia won.

I'm not doing that again. Hyena is guilty. I see the same telltale linguistic tics.

What are these linguistic tics exactly?

Wouldn't you like to know?

Nobody is talking about what Hyena is doing here.

I don't care what Hyena does elsewhere. Talk about what he's doing here. Show me how he is a civilian.

I still believe lynching Hyena is the right move.

I'm bored with my Hyena vote anyway. [VOTE: Lady L.] aubergine

The "telltale linguistic tics" might exist, or they might not, and certainly Epignosis does not know whether Hyena displays these same tics when he is town-aligned. I think it's highly likely that this was a fake push. I can see this for Epignosis as mafia with the motive of testing whether Hyena is pushable. I can see this for Epignosis as town, trying to resolve whether Hyena has any associates, and if so, who they are. For Epignosis as both alignments, this is also a test of his authority: who will question his reasoning?
Juliets, in your experience, does Epignosis makes fake pushes like these as town? Or do you believe this was a real push?

I would like to see your take on this as well, nutella.

Epi frequently refuses to explain the reasons he believes someone is scum like he did here. In this case if he is serious, he may feel that explaining the tells gives Hyena the opportunity to change those tics going forward. That brings us to the question as to whether he's serious. Is it a fake push? Very possible though I have seen Epi do that as both alignments unfortunately. He will do it as town to reaction test (there may be other reasons that nutella is aware of that I'm not).

From your standpoint though I totally understand the read, and a read on him that isn't colored by his complicated meta may be a better read than those of us who have played with him often.

Thank you for your insights, Juliets!

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] , why did you really select Hyena to be your first push?

[Elephant]

i can't not be chill given my buttons are being pushed by all these votes

but since you asked, i will go eat some cereal and resume my browsing of the thread as posts come in

Careful about eating cereal when agitated.

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/ ... real-pinch

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

I might not be back by EOD. At best won't be back til very close. Out of the actual wagons I am most sus on him. I am not keen on Evenstar and nutella lynches aaaat all and I'm never lynching 112 day 1 (probably just never tbh).

Night.

[Texas Cloverleaf]

also hows texas claim a mindmeld with nanook and then vote on the other side of the nutella eva dichotomy

which is probably town/town

theyre all scum

112/nanook/texas/michelle

i got 4 of em im satisfied with my d1

I have never interacted with Nanook??

[Elephant]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

I might not be back by EOD. At best won't be back til very close. Out of the actual wagons I am most sus on him. I am not keen on Evenstar and nutella lynches aaaat all and I'm never lynching 112 day 1 (probably just never tbh).

Night.

If you were just here, and Tony was just here, why didn't you interact with him?

[Texas Cloverleaf]

iaafr is town because spewing tone everywhere
Mac is town because Mac
112 is town because reasons

Eva is scum because she went out of her way to manufacture a negative read on me based on things which had not actually occurred

stab eva

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

also hows texas claim a mindmeld with nanook and then vote on the other side of the nutella eva dichotomy

which is probably town/town

theyre all scum

112/nanook/texas/michelle

i got 4 of em im satisfied with my d1

I have never interacted with Nanook??

There’s a Nutella/Eva dichotomy?

[Elephant]

also hows texas claim a mindmeld with nanook and then vote on the other side of the nutella eva dichotomy

which is probably town/town

theyre all scum

112/nanook/texas/michelle

i got 4 of em im satisfied with my d1

I have never interacted with Nanook??

MacDougall town, we get to mindmeld again wheee

Could iaafr have gotten this mixed up? Which side was MacDougall on at the time of your vote? I remember that MacDougall was working against Evenstar for a while, which would make your vote appear consistent.

[Elephant]

also hows texas claim a mindmeld with nanook and then vote on the other side of the nutella eva dichotomy

which is probably town/town

theyre all scum

112/nanook/texas/michelle

i got 4 of em im satisfied with my d1

I have never interacted with Nanook??

There’s a Nutella/Eva dichotomy?

I recall colorful diagrams.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

also hows texas claim a mindmeld with nanook and then vote on the other side of the nutella eva dichotomy

which is probably town/town

theyre all scum

112/nanook/texas/michelle

i got 4 of em im satisfied with my d1

I have never interacted with Nanook??

There’s a Nutella/Eva dichotomy?

I recall colorful diagrams.

Oh boy

[juliets]

Ok it's time to concentrate on my group and see if I can pull some reads out. Posting them here for my own reference:

Elephant
Michelle
Evenstar
Master Radishes
Texas Cloverleaf

Hi Juliets!
May I inquire whether you have done anything scummish lately?
Thanks in advance
the Elephant

Hi Elephant!

I'm reading through your posts right now, and mind-melded with you on one of them.

I don't feel like I've done anything scummy but both Dom and Epi feel like my ISO on Tony was OOC in that I am not usually that accusatory. I have to believe them because I've played with both for a long, long time. You'll see my responses to them in my ISO.

TSP who I have played one game with and I was bad says I remind him of that game but he admits thats a weak meta read.

I have a question for you too - why does 112 find you scummy?

I believe the questions you put to Tony in your ISO of him were worth asking. When I read a player, I try to determine their intentions: why did they write that? Would they have written that as town? as scum? The motivations for the points you observed were unclear, so it was good to ask about them. Tony answered you 25 minutes later, here. My impression is that he gives fairly townish motivations for the posts that pinged you. I did not see a reaction to Tony's reply in your ISO. Why did you not comment on his answer?

I was embarrassed that I had viewed several of his posts as serious when they were really jokes so I didn't feel like there was a lot for me to say to him. I should have responded though, it's rude not to acknowledge that he took the time to answer. I'll go back and take another look at his reply when I'm finished with my group.

I can certainly empathize with your feeling of embarrassment: you felt you were being more accusatory than you were comfortable with, and had been deflated. With a proper "accusatory" mindset, you would have realized that your questions were justified, and kept questioning some of the answers without embarrassment.
I see that you did not unvote Tony, and are still voting him. Why did you still scumread him after this answer?
You had been accused of being unusally accusatory; did that play a role in your decision not to double down?

I will re-visit that Tony vote today when I re-visit his reply to me. By double down do you mean did the accusatory accusations cause me to not say "I see your answers but still think you are scum"?

Also, have you read Eva yet? I just read her and my head is spinning. I'd appreciate your opinion if you have one at this point.

I've got to take a break and get ready for an appointment I have.